In Jail: My Innocent 23 Year Old Son

[KimoMax]

Take care of your Visa properly yourself in developing and poorer Countries.

The services themself may be legal, but if you end up with a forgery, you are responsible and will be held accountable.

Bail is about 200,000 to 400,000 thb plus other legal fees and expences.

Will take about 6-9 months going to court evey month, where the prosecution will not be ready to proceed. Finally at the end of a certain amount of delays, charges and case will be dismissed.

Otherwise, Fines, Jail and/or Deportation are a reality.

Edited May 25, 2011 by KimoMax

[Badbanker]

Actually when I make a comment on ThaiVisa it is normally from experience as live in this sort of legal world.

As in this case I am not aware that these services are regularly available in Bangkok, I am able to call to several to people from the larger embassies, that are formally involved with their distressed nationals through out Thailand and ask if they had any nationals imprisoned for fake visas?

Two of the embassies responded positively and as usual asked not to be quoted directly by name, as then they could not continue to give us information on this forum that I believe is so useful.

They indicated their experience of detention times and bail if any and I have quoted these .

Interestingly 4 of the embassies know I am Badbanker as they have put me on the spot about it. They like me to give out anonymous correct info to counter the bar room hearsay and just outright lies that are sometimes so common in some expat circles!

Badbanker

PS As the OP has not responded I have taken this opportunity to give people correct information about this sort of activity

Edited May 25, 2011 by Badbanker

[Semper]

How difficult can it be to make a proper visa?

[keestha]

I have just got off the phone with people involved with their distressed nationals at a major embassy in Bangkok.

They have confirmed to me that the purchase of illicit Thai visas is common in Pattaya, Samui and Phuket. In their opinion the majority of people buying fake Thai visas, in Thailand, knowing enter into this arrangement and are aware it is illegal to do so. I number of people each year do get caught!

Badbanker,

Are we talking about illegal visa extensions, or about illegal new visas plus exit/entry stamps? Is it usually forged visas/stamps, or genuine but illicitly obtained visas/stamps?

Am I correct in thinking these people would usually get caught when trying to exit the country?

The OP has lost credibility because of refraining to supply additional information,but the thread remains interesting and could be useful as a warning against trying to fix things in a non legal way.

[KimoMax]

BB is correct that there are Visa Scams. Most, if not all look offical and a lay person could not usually tell the difference.

Can be for extensions, new or tourist Visa's or any kind or type of Visa Stamp.

The highlights of these forgeries is often times the place of issue and number on a stamp or a visa. Many times these forgeries are recorded and looked for by Immigrations officers if they already know or suspect the document is not True.

Remember that there will always be Scams to get money. Some are legit brokers, but some may not be what they seem.

Use at your own risk. A close friend got caught up in a Visa Scam. Not fun.

If you go thru proper channels, go to immigration or an embassy or consulate yourself, these are real Visa's or Stamps for sure.

Using an agent or another person to do it for a FEE for you is always a risk.

Edited May 26, 2011 by KimoMax

[surayu]

How difficult can it be to make a proper visa?

Either if the OP was a troll or not, the discussion here still raise a very important point about the big danger hideing behind an apparently innocuous and legit business operation.

Even myself had used back home the service of an agency providing their services to obtain a visa for a particular country (please stop the argument about agencies "issuing" visas, they don't issue them but act as an intermediary between you and the consulates, probably just a case of incorrect terms being used...).

How difficult is to obtain a visa doing everything without an intermediary? honestly, with a bit of patient and willingness, nothing is so difficult. For istance, you might buy a loaf of bread at the supermarket that make you ill because they put something wrong inside the ingredients, how difficult is to make your own bread at home? then you still get ill because the flour you used was somehow contaminated, and again, how difficult should have been growing your own weat in you back garden? ...it's a never ending circle, the point it's not if it's difficult or easy to do, it's that if you are paying for a legitimate service that give you the convenience of using their service for let them to do what you could have done by yourself too (whatever the reasons), then THEY should be held accountable by any mistakes obtained (apart from those coming out from a different source, as a consulate employee doing something wrong or even the "customer" providing false informations), not you!!!

Too easy to blame every faults on someone being cheated, the victims.

The final touch is given in Thailand, by arresting the cheated customers and letting the bad business still free to operate as if nothing wrong had ever taken place, not even repeated deaths can stop this very vicious circle, as that hotel in Chiang Mai has recently demonstrated, my opinion is that only international pressure can put an end to this sick state of affairs, only when they see their wallets are being affected they try to look for a change.

It would be nice to see consulate/embassies start (or increase) their mentoring to any local authority needing this sort of help, especially those whom are affecting the life of their own people and also start issuing travel warnings about all the serious dangers an individual could be subjected to, in the country where they are operating, this one about fake visa/stamps/whatever else being issued surely is one, tourists being arrested(should we say tortured?) and these businesses which have a name and an address still trapping more unaware innocent people, shame on Thailand and shame on my own country too for simply pretending these things are inexistent.

[lectito]

It would be nice to see consulate/embassies start ... start issuing travel warnings about all the serious dangers an individual could be subjected to, in the country where they are operating, this one about fake visa/stamps/whatever else being issued ...

Many countries already give those warnings.

The British travel advisory states: "The only legal way of obtaining a new visa, entry permit or extension of stay is from a Thai Embassy or Consulate, an Immigration Officer at a point of entry into Thailand or one of the Immigration Offices around the country. Visas issued by visa shops, travel agents or by any other means are likely to be illegal and lead to criminal proceedings, which may result in a large fine or imprisonment. You would also be prohibited from entering Thailand again."

The Canadian travel advisory states: "Visas, visa extensions, or entry stamps issued through visa shops or travel agents in Thailand should be avoided. Canadians have been arrested for having improper Thai visas or entry and exit stamps inserted into their passports. A passport that has been altered or that contains counterfeit visas and entry/exit stamps is technically invalid. Offenders can expect jail sentences, fines, and/or deportation, and may also be prohibited from entering Thailand in the future."

The United States travel advisory states: "Private "visa extension services," even those advertising in major periodicals or located close to Immigration offices or police stations, are illegal. A number of U.S. citizens are arrested at border crossings each year with counterfeit visas and entry stamps they have obtained through these illegal services."

[Badbanker]

I have seen a huge amount of African passports with one year non O visa extensions from the Ayudhaya Immigration office and I frankly doubt their legitimacy but I am not an immigration official.

There are a number of remote border crossings that I am led to believe are not wired into the computer system and I believe some people may use these for illicit visa entries and exits as the extension stamps may not be closely looked at.

Now to answer this question from keestha:

"Are we talking about illegal visa extensions, or about illegal new visas plus exit/entry stamps? Is it usually forged visas/stamps, or genuine but illicitly obtained visas/stamps?"

I think it is all of the above! Regularly there are people arrested for making fake passports and in their possession are many stamps. Many of them are exact copies of visa stamps from little known Thai embassies along with excellent copies of exit and entry stamps from multiple countries including Thailand. This is to give the new or recycled and reformatted passport authenticity and feel that will allow it to past muster in many countries.

Yes it is common for people to be pulled up at a Thai border or airport with fake stamps in their passport!

Trouble is this sort of major illicit activity can carry over into a consumer type groups, like broke, unsuspecting or cheap charley farangs. This is when the brown stuff happens and you get sweaty male company and a free cement floor and 5 grade food for free. ;(

BB

PS Most if not all visa entries are computerized and if they find some funny stamps it can and will be a problem!

Edited May 26, 2011 by Badbanker

[surayu]

Trouble is this sort of major illicit activity can carry over into a consumer type groups, like broke, unsuspecting or cheap charley farangs. This is when the brown stuff happens and you get sweaty male company and a free cement floor and 5 grade food for free. ;(

BB

Yes BB, i am sure this is a problem that can't affect anyone, definetely not the clever "do it all elites" we have here, here is an interesting article about one of the "broke cheap charlies" you mentioned...(rip).

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/european-aristocrat-dies-in-notorious-thai-jail-412202.html

[MacWalen]

This is a very serious issue.

I believe that your son did not know what he was doing but obviously that is not what the authorities think.

I had a case today of one student who came to me and said someone offered him a one year visa, all legitimate, do not have to leave Thailand at all!Only 3 days processing time and all done for 20,000 Baht. Sounds like a good deal, does it not. He was however not sure how legitimate all the paperwork would be. Most likely not legitimate and it might catch up with you later on. So he paid extra 5,000 Baht for his Thai and all will be fully legal.

Hope all goes well and terribly sorry to hear that something like that happened. Wish I could help.

[surayu]

Many countries already give those warnings.

Very well done to them! i just wish more countries would follow their example, the one about my particular country it's a total mess, a mix of wrong information that in some part looks like one of those bad automatic translators or just don't make any sense, even the copyright small logo at the bottom bear the date "2004", but still you can find spots of recent activity here and there.......what an embarassment !

The prize however goes without doubt to an "Honorary Consul" (what an honour!!) putting on his official site, long pieces of his own poetry that translated into english sound more or less like this "...why do you come to bother me? go away!!! you know i will not help you, ever!" sounds like a joke? just go and have a look by yourself, and these are the outstanding fellow countrymen which supposed to help their connationals abroad...ohh dear.

[Penkoprod]

Seems to me that there are 2 main types of "these" visas

One where its an out and out forgery, like all the fake designer gear that used to abound in the more touristy areas, and the other one where its a genuine stamp from a (bent) immigration official.

Does that seem about right?

Penkoprod

[KimoMax]

Every Thai Immigration office I have visited in the last several years has Warnings Posted in English not to accept assistance and to Report anyone outside Immigration to Help you get Visa or Immigration Assistance.

Thai Embassies and Consulates may or may not have these same type of Warnings, but the game is no different when dealing with Visa situations.

The problem of these fake Visa's in Thailand has greatly diminished sine a major crackdown several years ago, but persons who do these altered documents outside Thailand are beyond Thailand Laws and Enforcement.

For the convenience of getting a Visa without going to the Embassy or Consulate yourself, or maybe a day earlier, people are willing to take a Risk. Rediculous and poor judgement on their part.

The holder of the passport with an illegal visa or stamp will be the one prosecuted. The majority of the agents are beyond Thailand's borders and untouchable.

Edited May 26, 2011 by KimoMax