Thailand Election: Focus Shifts To Northeast

[webfact]

GENERAL ELECTION

Focus shifts to Northeast

By The Nation

Abhisit heckled by reds during Samut Sakhon campaigning; Yingluck gets warm reception in Udon Thani

The campaign focus ahead of the general election has shifted to the Northeast, which makes up about one-third of the seats in the House of Representatives and is simultaneously the Pheu Thai Party's stronghold and the weakest link for the ruling Democrats.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, leader of the Democrat Party, plans to set foot in Ubon Ratchathani province on Saturday to launch the party's election campaign in the region.

"I hope the atmosphere in Isaan [the Northeast] will be good and there will be no one to create any problems during my visit," he told reporters yesterday.

However, Abhisit is yet to decide whether he will visit other northeastern provinces, such as neighbouring Yasothon and Amnat Charoen.

Red-shirt leader Kwanchai Praipana guaranteed no red-shirted people would create trouble for the PM when he was in the Northeast, particularly in Udon Thani, which is the main base of the red-shirt movement under his leadership.

"We welcome all political parties to campaign in the provinces, and in the northeastern region. We won't bother them and will allow them to provide full information about their policies to voters," he said. "The red shirts have good discipline and good democratic spirit."

The Democrat Party has failed to obtain significant votes in the Northeast for years, and won just five seats in the region during the last general election in 2007.

The now-defunct People's Power Party won 102 seats in the region in the 2007 polls. Many of them are now Pheu Thai candidates in the upcoming election, while others defected to Bhum Jai Thai and other parties.

Following recent constitutional amendment, the number of House seats from the Northeast has been reduced from 135 to 126, while remaining at about one-third of the now 375 constituencies across the country.

Pheu Thai's top party-list candidate Yingluck Shinawatra yesterday was in Udon Thani province for the party's campaigning, and received a warm welcome from local residents. Street vendors greeted her with her portrait and chanted "number-one woman premier". Some said: "No need to waste time here; we will definitely vote for you."

Yingluck together with many senior party figures, including Pracha Promnok and Sanoh Thienthong, took a motorised-tricycle ride around the city.

At Centre Point market, she demonstrated her cooking skills by making som tam (papaya salad) during a photo opportunity for journalists, before heading to Thung Sri Muang plaza to take the stage for campaign speech-making.

Meanwhile, Pheu Thai party-list candidate Torpong Chaiyasan said former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, Yingluck's brother, had suggested that she should not engage in a broadcast debate with Abhisit.

Such a debate is unnecessary, as Thaksin believes Pheu Thai has had a good response from the voters, as reflected by many opinion polls, Torpong said.

-- The Nation 2011-05-26

[maewrocks]

I'd love to sample her spicy salad

[Buchholz]

"The red shirts have good discipline and good democratic spirit."

I'm not sure that those who were assaulted or who had their possessions torched and looted and destroyed would necessarily ascribe to suspected terrorist out on bail Red Shirt Leader Kwanchai's description of his Udon Thani Red Shirts.

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Edited May 26, 2011 by Mario2008
part two gave weblink to unwanted comments

[jayboy]

I'm not sure that those who were assaulted or who had their possessions torched and looted and destroyed would necessarily ascribe to suspected terrorist out on bail Red Shirt Leader Kwanchai's description of his Udon Thani Red Shirts.

And I'm not sure that these Youtube clips show anything relevant.The first cannot be viewed because it has been censored by the men from the ministry.The second shows a bunch of redshirts milling around.

Expect more of this kind of silly stuff as the campaign progresses, and as the bitterness at Yingluck's popularity becomes increasingly evident.

[Buchholz]

"The red shirts have good discipline and good democratic spirit."

I'm not sure that those who were assaulted or who had their possessions torched and looted and destroyed would necessarily ascribe to suspected terrorist out on bail Red Shirt Leader Kwanchai's description of his Udon Thani Red Shirts.

And I'm not sure that these Youtube clips show anything relevant.The first cannot be viewed because it has been censored by the men from the ministry.The second shows a bunch of redshirts milling around.

Expect more of this kind of silly stuff

They show Kwanchai's proclivity to be the opposite of what he is proclaiming now.

Not sure what you mean by "the first cannot be viewed" as it can be viewed just fine and show Kwanchai's legions attacking others.

The second and third video show that after the beatings, Kwanchai's men looted, burned, and destroyed property.

To characterize people getting critically injured as "silly" reflects a rather disturbing sense of fair play and "democratic spirit" that out-on-bail Kwanchai now speaks to.

25 July 2008

A clash broke out yesterday between a pro-government group and the People's Alliance for Democracy in Udon Thani Province yesterday. The pro-government group called themselves the "Udon Thani Ppatriots."

Under the leadership of Kwanchai Praiphana and Uthai Saenkhaew, brother of Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives Deputy Minister Teerachai Saenkaew, the anti-PAD group violently attempted to stop PAD supporters who were hosting a stage talk in front of Nongprachak Public Park in the municipality of Udon Thani's city district.

The pro-government group demolished the PAD platform and as clashes took place shortly after, around 20 PAD members were injured in the violent incident, three are in critical condition.

The group led by Kwanchai used wooden bats, knifes, and axes in their attempt to stop the PAD from staging the anti-government rally. Thanyanan Jaradjirawong, a female PAD member who suffered a severe injury in the attack reveals that she was standing in front of the park where the police guard team was stationed to oversee security at the gathering when the Udon Thaini patriot group raided the PAD rally area.

Thanyanan was attacked by a group of males and hit hard on the head until she pretended to lose consciousness.

A witness and acquaintance of the female victim says the male attackers used their feet to check whether Thanyanan was dead and fled when she did not respond.

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/tan/ViewData.aspx?DataID=1008468

========================================

The Nation 24-07-08

Pro-government activist admits on TV he led protests to beat up PAD protesters in Udon Thani

Kwanchai Praiphana, leader of the Udon Thani Guard Group, admitted during an interview on Channel 3 that he let his supporters to beat up protesters led by the People's Alliance for Democracy.

Kwanchai vowed to lead his supporters to beat PAD protesters again if they hold another rally in the northeastern province.

On Thursday, Kwanchai led hundreds of protesters demolish PAD's stage and beat up PAD protesters, seriously injuring two of them.

Kwanchai said he had warned local PAD supporters several times not to organise a rally in the province, because he regarded that anti-government rallies damaged the province's reputation.

"Yes, I did it and I am not afraid of legal action because I will be charged only public brawl charges," Kwanchai said.

"I've warned them several times that they must not come here."

.

Edited May 26, 2011 by Buchholz

[phutoie2]

Why is a certain member on here beginning to sound like the proverbial broken record?. I do 'nt need to be continually bombarded with photo's of Thai politicians and poxy youtube video clips.

Some of us are bright enough to work it out for ourselves - give it a rest!.

Oh and I know its a forum!

V Meldrew

[Buchholz]

Why is a certain member on here beginning to sound like the proverbial broken record?. I do 'nt need to be continually bombarded with photo's of Thai politicians and poxy youtube video clips.

Some of us are bright enough to work it out for ourselves - give it a rest!.

Oh and I know its a forum!

V Meldrew

Obviously then it isn't intended for the "some of us", but is directed at the uninformed and the substantial number of apologists and enablers who come out as was addressed just prior to you.

If I see the glaring hypocrisy between

"We won't bother them and will allow them to provide full information"

and

"I've warned them several times that they must not come here."

then I'm going to point it out. If that troubles you, sorry.

[jayboy]

They show Kwanchai's proclivity to be the opposite of what he is proclaiming now.

Not sure what you mean by "the first cannot be viewed" as it can be viewed just fine and show Kwanchai's legions attacking others.

The second and third video show that after the beatings, Kwanchai's men looted, burned, and destroyed property.

To characterize people getting critically injured as "silly" reflects a rather disturbing sense of fair play and "democratic spirit" that out-on-bail Kwanchai now speaks to.

I checked again and the first video is blocked on my server anyway.Are you using a proxy server to avoid the government's political censorship?

Thanks for the explanation on the background.It wasn't apparent earlier that these were the PAD thugs causing provocation in the red heartland, much like Oswald Mosley's fascist blackshirts marching on London's East End to incite violence.The blackshirts generally got the worst of it, and I hope the PAD fascists learned their lesson too.If one or two got knocked around a little, I dare say that contributed to their "learning experience".

[Buchholz]

They show Kwanchai's proclivity to be the opposite of what he is proclaiming now.

Not sure what you mean by "the first cannot be viewed" as it can be viewed just fine and show Kwanchai's legions attacking others.

The second and third video show that after the beatings, Kwanchai's men looted, burned, and destroyed property.

To characterize people getting critically injured as "silly" reflects a rather disturbing sense of fair play and "democratic spirit" that out-on-bail Kwanchai now speaks to.

I checked again and the first video is blocked on my server anyway.Are you using a proxy server to avoid the government's political censorship?

Thanks for the explanation on the background.It wasn't apparent earlier that these were the PAD thugs causing provocation in the red heartland,

If one or two got knocked around a little, I dare say that contributed to their "learning experience".

It's not blocked and it's not censored. Sounds like you have ISP issues. Are you on dial-up?

The attack was completely unprovoked. I'm surprised you are seemingly unaware of such a well known event.

Excusing mob violence, burning, and looting a "learning experience" is disturbing to say they least, but not unsurprising.

[jayboy]

It's not blocked and it's not censored. Sounds like you have ISP issues. Are you on dial-up?

The attack was completely unprovoked. I'm surprised you are seemingly unaware of such a well known event.

Excusing mob violence, burning, and looting a "learning experience" is disturbing to say they least, but not unsurprising.

No I'm on a high speed True broadband connection.Still censored by the goons at the Ministry.Never mind.

Thanks for the additional information you were present to observe the unprovoked attack.How did the looting and burning happen? Did the PAD thugs have property or assets in Udon Thani? Seems a little unlikely since they were presumably there from out of town to provoke violence and trouble (as is their custom).

Sometimes fascist thugs need to get a taste of their own medicine.If the redshirts managed this that's heroic not disturbing.

Any how why is this behaviour unacceptable in your eyes while the murder of unarmed civilians by the army is ok?

[Buchholz]

It's not blocked and it's not censored. Sounds like you have ISP issues. Are you on dial-up?

The attack was completely unprovoked. I'm surprised you are seemingly unaware of such a well known event.

Excusing mob violence, burning, and looting a "learning experience" is disturbing to say they least, but not unsurprising.

No I'm on a high speed True broadband connection.Still censored by the goons at the Ministry.Never mind.

Thanks for the additional information you were present to observe the unprovoked attack.How did the looting and burning happen? Did the PAD thugs have property or assets in Udon Thani? Seems a little unlikely since they were presumably there from out of town to provoke violence and trouble (as is their custom).

It's not censored. If it was, then no one could view it. But if you prefer to blame it on gremlins, have at it.

As with anytime when one is unfamiliar with an event such as you apparently are, I would encourage you to find the information you seek through whichever outlet you choose.

By all accounts it was unprovoked.

The burning and looting occurred with lighters and benzene I imagine. It occurred after the victims fled the park and their possessions as depicted in the 2nd and 3rd videos.

To escalate your praise of mob violence as now "heroic"... means it really is beyond the realm of sensible discussion.

.

.

Edited May 26, 2011 by Buchholz

[jayboy]

It's not censored. If it was, then no one could view it. But if you prefer to blame it on gremlins, have at it.

As with anytime when one is unfamiliar with an event such as you apparently are, I would encourage you to find the information you seek through whichever outlet you choose.

By all accounts it was unprovoked.

The burning and looting occurred with lighters and benzene I imagine. It occurred after the victims fled the park and their possessions as depicted in the 2nd and 3rd videos.

It's censored because it has the MICT red stamp on it and is unviewable.Anyone else's experience please?

So you really have no idea ("by all accounts" "I imagine" etc) what went on in the incident.Sounds like the PAD thugs got a well deserved drubbing.Good.

[Buchholz]

It's not censored. If it was, then no one could view it. But if you prefer to blame it on gremlins, have at it.

As with anytime when one is unfamiliar with an event such as you apparently are, I would encourage you to find the information you seek through whichever outlet you choose.

By all accounts it was unprovoked.

The burning and looting occurred with lighters and benzene I imagine. It occurred after the victims fled the park and their possessions as depicted in the 2nd and 3rd videos.

It's censored because it has the MICT red stamp on it and is unviewable.Anyone else's experience please?

So you really have no idea ("by all accounts" "I imagine" etc) what went on in the incident.Sounds like the PAD thugs got a well deserved drubbing.Good.

If MICT blocks a site, it's usually uniform across all ISP's. Perhaps you should switch to an ISP that's less glitchy, like 3BB.

I'll let you do your own research on the event. I already have and as said, all accounts from a variety of sources said it was unprovoked. If you are unaware of something, it seems ridiculous to charge others with sharing the same lack of knowledge that you have.

Your echoing of the same words of call to violence as the indicted Kwanchai is again, disturbing, but not surprising.

[timekeeper]

It's not censored. If it was, then no one could view it. But if you prefer to blame it on gremlins, have at it.

As with anytime when one is unfamiliar with an event such as you apparently are, I would encourage you to find the information you seek through whichever outlet you choose.

By all accounts it was unprovoked.

The burning and looting occurred with lighters and benzene I imagine. It occurred after the victims fled the park and their possessions as depicted in the 2nd and 3rd videos.

It's censored because it has the MICT red stamp on it and is unviewable.Anyone else's experience please?

So you really have no idea ("by all accounts" "I imagine" etc) what went on in the incident.Sounds like the PAD thugs got a well deserved drubbing.Good.

i can see whats happening, just fine...........

[samurai]

It's not censored. If it was, then no one could view it. But if you prefer to blame it on gremlins, have at it.

As with anytime when one is unfamiliar with an event such as you apparently are, I would encourage you to find the information you seek through whichever outlet you choose.

By all accounts it was unprovoked.

The burning and looting occurred with lighters and benzene I imagine. It occurred after the victims fled the park and their possessions as depicted in the 2nd and 3rd videos.

It's censored because it has the MICT red stamp on it and is unviewable.Anyone else's experience please?

So you really have no idea ("by all accounts" "I imagine" etc) what went on in the incident.Sounds like the PAD thugs got a well deserved drubbing.Good.

If MICT blocks a site, it's usually uniform across all ISP's. Perhaps you should switch to an ISP that's less glitchy, like 3BB.

I'll let you do your own research on the event. I already have and as said, all accounts from a variety of sources said it was unprovoked. If you are unaware of something, it seems ridiculous to charge others with sharing the same lack of knowledge that you have.

Your echoing of the same words of call to violence as the indicted Kwanchai is again, disturbing, but not surprising.

Its somehow "blocked" for me too. Just the video clip, its a 20 sec clip that shows three slides of text, Informing that the Ministry of Information and CT has temporary ceased the service to access such kind of information, and about the address and telephone number of the ministry. Never seen something like this before.

Furthermore I am not sure if its allowed to post links to web pages where are comments on display like the comments for these videos.

[timekeeper]

They show Kwanchai's proclivity to be the opposite of what he is proclaiming now.

Not sure what you mean by "the first cannot be viewed" as it can be viewed just fine and show Kwanchai's legions attacking others.

The second and third video show that after the beatings, Kwanchai's men looted, burned, and destroyed property.

To characterize people getting critically injured as "silly" reflects a rather disturbing sense of fair play and "democratic spirit" that out-on-bail Kwanchai now speaks to.

I checked again and the first video is blocked on my server anyway.Are you using a proxy server to avoid the government's political censorship?

Thanks for the explanation on the background.It wasn't apparent earlier that these were the PAD thugs causing provocation in the red heartland, much like Oswald Mosley's fascist blackshirts marching on London's East End to incite violence.The blackshirts generally got the worst of it, and I hope the PAD fascists learned their lesson too.If one or two got knocked around a little, I dare say that contributed to their "learning experience".

would this ayboy theory apply to any political parties who dared to campaign in the red heartland?

by campaigning on a different ticket than Red and daring to disagree are they provoking violence?

would it be ok for Abhisit to get ''knocked around a little''' while on the campaign trail?

[jayboy]

would this ayboy theory apply to any political parties who dared to campaign in the red heartland?

by campaigning on a different ticket than Red and daring to disagree are they provoking violence?

would it be ok for Abhisit to get ''knocked around a little''' while on the campaign trail?

Thanks (seriously) for raising this because it subsequently occurred to me as an issue.

To remove all doubt I feel strongly that all mainstream political parties should be free to campaign anywhere in the Kingdom.Thus I strongly disapprove of say Khun Abhisit being unduly harassed in the red heartland (or any politician campaigning in a generally "unfriendly" area.

My point was really just referring to thuggish quasi fascist groups like PAD deliberately stirring up trouble and provoking violence.The same would apply if the more aggressive of the redshirt factions headed for Nakhon Sri Thammarat.

[Buchholz]

My point was really just referring to thuggish quasi fascist groups like PAD deliberately stirring up trouble and provoking violence.The same would apply if the more aggressive of the redshirt factions headed for Nakhon Sri Thammarat.

Perhaps we could put your continued misrepresentation of an event that you admittedly are un-knowledgable about to bed if you showed any evidence that Kwanchai's Gang was provoked.

Or not.

[jayboy]

My point was really just referring to thuggish quasi fascist groups like PAD deliberately stirring up trouble and provoking violence.The same would apply if the more aggressive of the redshirt factions headed for Nakhon Sri Thammarat.

Perhaps we could put your continued misrepresentation of an event that you admittedly are un-knowledgable about to bed if you showed any evidence that Kwanchai's Gang was provoked.

Or not.

The presence of fascists is provocation enough.

[samurai]

I'd love to sample her spicy salad

Reuters Pictures - @pouyingluck tastes a papaya salad during ... on Twitpic

http://twitpic.com/52c3j9

... on Twitpic

http://twitpic.com/528lgm

... on twitpic

http://twitpic.com/52j20w

[Buchholz]

My point was really just referring to thuggish quasi fascist groups like PAD deliberately stirring up trouble and provoking violence.The same would apply if the more aggressive of the redshirt factions headed for Nakhon Sri Thammarat.

Perhaps we could put your continued misrepresentation of an event that you admittedly are un-knowledgable about to bed if you showed any evidence that Kwanchai's Gang was provoked.

Or not.

The presence of fascists is provocation enough.

Ok, so you opted for the "or not" choice.

[whybother]

The presence of fascists is provocation enough.

But it's OK for groups to have a protest after threating to burn the place down?

[timekeeper]

My point was really just referring to thuggish quasi fascist groups like PAD deliberately stirring up trouble and provoking violence.The same would apply if the more aggressive of the redshirt factions headed for Nakhon Sri Thammarat.

Perhaps we could put your continued misrepresentation of an event that you admittedly are un-knowledgable about to bed if you showed any evidence that Kwanchai's Gang was provoked.

Or not.

The presence of fascists is provocation enough.

thats a very broad stroke ayboy

even highly regarded academics can't agree on a finite definition of fascists

so whats your definition of a fascist whose mere presence is enough to provoke an outbreak of violence ?

[timekeeper]

It's not censored. If it was, then no one could view it. But if you prefer to blame it on gremlins, have at it.

As with anytime when one is unfamiliar with an event such as you apparently are, I would encourage you to find the information you seek through whichever outlet you choose.

By all accounts it was unprovoked.

The burning and looting occurred with lighters and benzene I imagine. It occurred after the victims fled the park and their possessions as depicted in the 2nd and 3rd videos.

It's censored because it has the MICT red stamp on it and is unviewable.Anyone else's experience please?

So you really have no idea ("by all accounts" "I imagine" etc) what went on in the incident.Sounds like the PAD thugs got a well deserved drubbing.Good.

If MICT blocks a site, it's usually uniform across all ISP's. Perhaps you should switch to an ISP that's less glitchy, like 3BB.

I'll let you do your own research on the event. I already have and as said, all accounts from a variety of sources said it was unprovoked. If you are unaware of something, it seems ridiculous to charge others with sharing the same lack of knowledge that you have.

Your echoing of the same words of call to violence as the indicted Kwanchai is again, disturbing, but not surprising.

Its somehow "blocked" for me too. Just the video clip, its a 20 sec clip that shows three slides of text, Informing that the Ministry of Information and CT has temporary ceased the service to access such kind of information, and about the address and telephone number of the ministry. Never seen something like this before.

Furthermore I am not sure if its allowed to post links to web pages where are comments on display like the comments for these videos.

i find that if i am not sure, its best to say nothing until you are sure.

ever heard the English proverb ?

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt . -- George Eliot

Edited May 26, 2011 by timekeeper

[Siripon]

[by all accounts it was unprovoked.

The burning and looting occurred with lighters and benzene I imagine. It occurred after the victims fled the park and their possessions as depicted in the 2nd and 3rd videos.

It's censored because it has the MICT red stamp on it and is unviewable.Anyone else's experience please?

So you really have no idea ("by all accounts" "I imagine" etc) what went on in the incident.Sounds like the PAD thugs got a well deserved drubbing.Good.

If MICT blocks a site, it's usually uniform across all ISP's. Perhaps you should switch to an ISP that's less glitchy, like 3BB.

I'll let you do your own research on the event. I already have and as said, all accounts from a variety of sources said it was unprovoked. If you are unaware of something, it seems ridiculous to charge others with sharing the same lack of knowledge that you have.

Your echoing of the same words of call to violence as the indicted Kwanchai is again, disturbing, but not surprising.

Its somehow "blocked" for me too. Just the video clip, its a 20 sec clip that shows three slides of text, Informing that the Ministry of Information and CT has temporary ceased the service to access such kind of information, and about the address and telephone number of the ministry. Never seen something like this before.

Furthermore I am not sure if its allowed to post links to web pages where are comments on display like the comments for these videos.

i find that if i am not sure, its best to say nothing until you are sure.

ever heard the English proverb ?

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt . -- George Eliot

Kwanchai and his thugs attacked a peaceful rally by the PAD in the park in Udon, it was outrageous with rewards for causing injuries and even deaths being made from red microphones.

Kwanchai should be in jail. BTW ,what happened to his wife after she was caught with stolen jewellery in her possession after the red riots last year?

[jdinasia]

The presence of fascists is provocation enough.

But it's OK for groups to have a protest after threating to burn the place down?

Apparently the right of (peaceful) protest only applies to the reds .. and they have been proven time and again not to be peaceful (as the videos -- none of which are blocked for me on 3bb-- show). I, for some reason, doubt that Jayboy would be so forgiving of the reds attacked just for being somewhere .... "The presence of fascists is provocation enough" ---- wow! In the future I am only assuming in the light of fairness that when the reds are attacked that he'll accept "The presence of terrorists is provocation enough" .........

Those of us that have followed politics in Thailand for years know that in many places it is not acceptable to the violent factions of the reds for any person with a dissenting view to even be there. This extends to the family members of people with dissenting views as can be demonstrated by a murder in Chiang Mai. Even showing up and CMU has drawn the reds out ..... But hey.... some people seem to happily accept violence from their favored side ....

Edited May 26, 2011 by jdinasia

[phutoie2]

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt . -- George Eliot

I always thought that was said by Abraham Lincoln? not by the author of Silas Marner and Middlemarch.

[jayboy]

But hey.... some people seem to happily accept violence from their favored side ....

In your case being the army and its murder of unarmed civilians.Or did they murder themselves: your constantly evolving position is wearisome to monitor.Anyway we have the authoritative HRW report now which skewers the lies.

I don't favour violence on any side but if a group of thugs (whether PAD or Reds) come into an area - known to be unfriendly politically - with the specific intent of provoking trouble, I'm not going to complain if one or two get their bottoms kicked.

[phiphidon]

The presence of fascists is provocation enough.

But it's OK for groups to have a protest after threating to burn the place down?

Apparently the right of (peaceful) protest only applies to the reds .. and they have been proven time and again not to be peaceful (as the videos -- none of which are blocked for me on 3bb-- show). I, for some reason, doubt that Jayboy would be so forgiving of the reds attacked just for being somewhere .... "The presence of fascists is provocation enough" ---- wow! In the future I am only assuming in the light of fairness that when the reds are attacked that he'll accept "The presence of terrorists is provocation enough" .........

Those of us that have followed politics in Thailand for years know that in many places it is not acceptable to the violent factions of the reds for any person with a dissenting view to even be there. This extends to the family members of people with dissenting views as can be demonstrated by a murder in Chiang Mai. Even showing up and CMU has drawn the reds out ..... But hey.... some people seem to happily accept violence from their favored side ....

But hey.... some people seem to happily accept violence from their favored side ....

In the interests of fairness and impartiality, if, as you seem to imply but do not state, your statement applies to those supporters of the Red Shirts, would you accept that your statement above could be equally applied to many of the supporters of the democrat party and the army that post on this forum, in the light of the events of last April/May and subsequent postings by those forum members?

[whybother]

In your case being the army and its murder of unarmed civilians.Or did they murder themselves: your constantly evolving position is wearisome to monitor.Anyway we have the authoritative HRW report now which skewers the lies.

I don't favour violence on any side but if a group of thugs (whether PAD or Reds) come into an area - known to be unfriendly politically - with the specific intent of provoking trouble, I'm not going to complain if one or two get their bottoms kicked.

... or shot?