Cambodia Opens UN Court Legal Fight With Thailand

[webfact]

Cambodia launches legal fight in UN's highest court

by Jan Hennop

THE HAGUE, May 30, 2011 (AFP) - Cambodia on Monday launched a bitter legal battle before the UN's highest court, asking it to order an immediate Thai troop withdrawal around an ancient temple that saw clashes this year.

"We will ask the court to swiftly provide the provisional measures to protect the peace and avoid an escalation of the armed conflict in the area," said Deputy Prime Minister Hor Namhong, who represents Cambodia.

"Cambodia is asking the court to implement measures to prevent further destruction of the temple and the area around it," he told a 16-panel of judges before the International Court of Justice based in The Hague.

"Thailand is under obligation to withdraw any troops in the area around the temple," the Cambodian representative said.

In February the UN appealed for a permanent ceasefire after 10 people were killed in fighting near Preah Vihear temple.

However fresh clashes broke out in April further west, leaving 18 dead and prompting 85,000 civilians to flee.

Cambodia said though there had been clashes in the past, Thai aggression substantially increased after July 2008, when the UN's cultural body UNESCO listed the temple as a World Heritage site.

"It's time for the voice of international law to speak loudly," Hor Namhong said, calling the ICJ "the guarantor".

"That is why we brought this dispute here -- it has been going on too long," he said.

The court ruled in 1962 that the 900-year-old temple itself belonged to Cambodia but both Phnom Penh and Bangkok claim ownership of the surrounding area.

Thailand said in its submission on Monday that it did not dispute the ruling on the temple itself but it did question the court's jurisdiction to rule on the 4.6-square-kilometre (1.8-square-mile) patch of land around Preah Vihear.

Thai representatives said the 1962 judgment only related to the temple itself, and not the area around it.

"You do not have jurisdiction over the boundary as such... your jurisdiction is limited to what was actually decided in 1962," James Crawford, Cambridge professor of International Law, told the court.

"The court in 1962 made no decision as to the limitations of the frontier," added Crawford, who appeared as an advisor to the Thai case.

Thailand also said it resented the image of a larger nation forcing itself on a smaller one.

"This portrayal of Thailand is a big bad wolf bullying the lamb of Cambodia is totally wrong," said Virachai Plasai, Thailand's ambassador to the Netherlands.

Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva told reporters in Bangkok that it was "unnecessary" for the court to consider Cambodia's petition.

"The request violates the previous ruling. ... We will fight based on the court's jurisdiction and facts. When Cambodia won the last case, the Thai government followed the ruling and has done so since 1962."

The 11th-century complex has been at the centre of a long legal wrangle between Thailand and Cambodia -- which took its southeastern Asian neighbour to the ICJ in 1958.

Cambodia last month asked the ICJ to explain that ruling, with the ICJ saying it would rule on a clarification later.

The ICJ has set down two days for public submissions after which judges will convene and give a ruling, said a source close to the court who asked not to be named.

Two hearings for submissions are also scheduled for Tuesday.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-05-30

[stuandchris]

When Cambodia won the last case we have abided by it?

I was unaware a legal ruling had a time limit, or in Thai this is this just until it suits me?

And a legal representation does not have to be bitter, merely a request for clarification.

When will these people ever grow up.

[whybother]

When Cambodia won the last case we have abided by it?

I was unaware a legal ruling had a time limit, or in Thai this is this just until it suits me?

And a legal representation does not have to be bitter, merely a request for clarification.

When will these people ever grow up.

The 1962 judgement ruled on the temple. It specifically didn't rule on the land around it. The Thai's have abided by that ruling (on the temple) and are negotiating terms on the still disputed land. It appears that the Cambodians are spending a lot of time on the disputed land, and even have troops IN the temple, which is against the 2000 MOU signed between Cambodia and Thailand.

[mania2301]

:jap: Cambodia is doing the right & proper thing by bringing up the matter with ICJ...& I hope the Cambodians will abide by the decision made by ICJ. If Thailand thinks that they are above all international rules & regulations or much better than anyone else on this planet then they better WAKE UP!!! Knowing Thailand, whatever decision ade by ICJ will be ignored unless the decision goes their way.

[regfrancis]

Well you see ....when the UN awarded the temple to Phnom pen, the meant they should pack it up and take it to Phnom Penh

Oh well...no ones brain can function reasonably in Bangkok heat

.....

When Cambodia won the last case we have abided by it?

I was unaware a legal ruling had a time limit, or in Thai this is this just until it suits me?

And a legal representation does not have to be bitter, merely a request for clarification.

When will these people ever grow up.

The 1962 judgement ruled on the temple. It specifically didn't rule on the land around it. The Thai's have abided by that ruling (on the temple) and are negotiating terms on the still disputed land. It appears that the Cambodians are spending a lot of time on the disputed land, and even have troops IN the temple, which is against the 2000 MOU signed between Cambodia and Thailand.

[KRS1]

Well you see ....when the UN awarded the temple to Phnom pen, the meant they should pack it up and take it to Phnom Penh

Oh well...no ones brain can function reasonably in Bangkok heat

.....

When Cambodia won the last case we have abided by it?

I was unaware a legal ruling had a time limit, or in Thai this is this just until it suits me?

And a legal representation does not have to be bitter, merely a request for clarification.

When will these people ever grow up.

The 1962 judgement ruled on the temple. It specifically didn't rule on the land around it. The Thai's have abided by that ruling (on the temple) and are negotiating terms on the still disputed land. It appears that the Cambodians are spending a lot of time on the disputed land, and even have troops IN the temple, which is against the 2000 MOU signed between Cambodia and Thailand.

Kinda like a farang owning a house but not the land. LOL

[vont]

When Cambodia won the last case we have abided by it?

I was unaware a legal ruling had a time limit, or in Thai this is this just until it suits me?

And a legal representation does not have to be bitter, merely a request for clarification.

When will these people ever grow up.

My humble question to you is likewise similar....

WHEN WILL YOU,

YES, YOU....

GROW UP.... SOME.... TOO.... LOL

[webfact]

PREAH VIHEAR DISPUTE

Thai attacks murderous: Phnom Penh

By Supalak Ganjanakhundee

The Nation, Agencies

Cambodia yesterday began its legal battle in the International Court of Justice over the Preah Vihear Temple by accusing Thailand of deadly intrusions into its territory and requesting temporary measures for Thai troops to withdraw.

"Thailand does not merely challenge Cambodia's sovereignty in this region, but is imposing its own interpretation by occupying this zone by murderous armed incursions," Cambodian Foreign Minister Hor Namhong told the court.

Hor Namhong testified that his country was requesting that the ICJ clarify its 1962 judgement on the Preah Vihear ownership case, as the two sides had failed to interpret the ruling jointly and this had led to armed conflict between the two neighbours.

Thailand is basing its recent military action on an interpretation of the 1962 judgement that is "both erroneous and unacceptable", he said.

Thailand is using its reading of the ruling "to provide legal cover for armed incursions into Cambodian territory".

Major military clashes around the ancient Hindu temple in February caused the deaths of eight people including civilians on both sides.

The ICJ yesterday and today is holding oral hearings on Cambodia's request for provisional measures to ban Thai military activities and any act that could be regarded as interference in Cambodian sovereignty.

The request and hearing are the result of Cambodia's application for an interpretation of the 1962 ruling.

The Thai defence team led by Ambassador to The Hague Virachai Plasai argued that the ICJ had no authority to rule on this case since a border dispute did not fall under its jurisdiction, said Chavanond Intarakomalya-sut, secretary to Thailand's foreign minister. Thailand has already complied with the ICJ's 1962 ruling and has nothing more to do with the case, he said.

"Basically, the Cambodian oral testimony has nothing new, and we believe that our argument is solid enough to convince the court," Chavanond said in a phone interview from The Hague.

The Foreign Ministry expects the court to deliver its concurrence on the provisional measures within three weeks after the oral hearing, he said.

-- The Nation 2011-05-31

[vont]

:jap: Cambodia is doing the right & proper thing by bringing up the matter with ICJ...& I hope the Cambodians will abide by the decision made by ICJ. If Thailand thinks that they are above all international rules & regulations or much better than anyone else on this planet then they better WAKE UP!!! Knowing Thailand, whatever decision ade by ICJ will be ignored unless the decision goes their way.

Cambodia is doing the right & proper thing by bringing up the matter with ICJ....

Really now....!

I venture to guess that you were born much later than 1975 or so....

If you were to ask those over 50 and were around Southeast Asia around that era, they would tell you the Cambodian refugees were fleeing for their lives and settled on Thailand territorial where the UNESCO, International RED CROSS and others were setting up accommodations for those Cambodian refugees on Thai sovereignty and Thai soil....

Perhaps you were too young to know too that....that area where the Cambodian refugees were protected, fed and clothed and what not, while awaiting to be processed to a Third country....

that very same area and parcels of land belonging to Thai sovereignty then....

is now in this decade has became a dispute area claimed by the now Cambodian leader, HuSan et al, as the Cambodian territorial....

It is shameless, disgusting and ungrateful for the Cambodians to show their gratitude to the Thai govt in such a disgusting manner....

No, definitely not.... the current Cambodian representatives are not doing the right nor proper thing by bringing up the matter with IC...

It is disgustingly disgraceful showing unforgiveable ingratitude as well.... is my one man humble opinion....:jap:

[whybother]

When Cambodia won the last case we have abided by it?

I was unaware a legal ruling had a time limit, or in Thai this is this just until it suits me?

And a legal representation does not have to be bitter, merely a request for clarification.

When will these people ever grow up.

The 1962 judgement ruled on the temple. It specifically didn't rule on the land around it. The Thai's have abided by that ruling (on the temple) and are negotiating terms on the still disputed land. It appears that the Cambodians are spending a lot of time on the disputed land, and even have troops IN the temple, which is against the 2000 MOU signed between Cambodia and Thailand.

Well you see ....when the UN awarded the temple to Phnom pen, the meant they should pack it up and take it to Phnom Penh

Oh well...no ones brain can function reasonably in Bangkok heat

Maybe you should read the ruling.

The ICJ ruled that the temple and the land that it was on, was in Cambodia.

The land that they are fighting over now was not included in the ICJ ruling.

[mania2301]

:jap: Cambodia is doing the right & proper thing by bringing up the matter with ICJ...& I hope the Cambodians will abide by the decision made by ICJ. If Thailand thinks that they are above all international rules & regulations or much better than anyone else on this planet then they better WAKE UP!!! Knowing Thailand, whatever decision ade by ICJ will be ignored unless the decision goes their way.

Cambodia is doing the right & proper thing by bringing up the matter with ICJ....

Really now....!

I venture to guess that you were born much later than 1975 or so....

If you were to ask those over 50 and were around Southeast Asia around that era, they would tell you the Cambodian refugees were fleeing for their lives and settled on Thailand territorial where the UNESCO, International RED CROSS and others were setting up accommodations for those Cambodian refugees on Thai sovereignty and Thai soil....

Perhaps you were too young to know too that....that area where the Cambodian refugees were protected, fed and clothed and what not, while awaiting to be processed to a Third country....

that very same area and parcels of land belonging to Thai sovereignty then....

is now in this decade has became a dispute area claimed by the now Cambodian leader, HuSan et al, as the Cambodian territorial....

It is shameless, disgusting and ungrateful for the Cambodians to show their gratitude to the Thai govt in such a disgusting manner....

No, definitely not.... the current Cambodian representatives are not doing the right nor proper thing by bringing up the matter with IC...

It is disgustingly disgraceful showing unforgiveable ingratitude as well.... is my one man humble opinion....:jap:

I can assure u that I am born before 1975....& have u ever been near to the border area?? Have u ever came close to the border area besides reading news in some big city?? I have been leaving & working in the border between Cambodia & Thailand for 11 years. I'm not a farang, I'm not Cambodian or Thai either....and YES I know & have experince the war between the two country. Does it scare the living shit out of me when I hear the howitzer firing....the answer is YES!! So, my conclusion is YES Cambodia is doing the right thing by bringing this matter to ICJ....it will put an END to all this stupid war!!

[Xonax]

Well you see ....when the UN awarded the temple to Phnom pen, the meant they should pack it up and take it to Phnom Penh

Oh well...no ones brain can function reasonably in Bangkok heat

.....

When Cambodia won the last case we have abided by it?

I was unaware a legal ruling had a time limit, or in Thai this is this just until it suits me?

And a legal representation does not have to be bitter, merely a request for clarification.

When will these people ever grow up.

The 1962 judgement ruled on the temple. It specifically didn't rule on the land around it. The Thai's have abided by that ruling (on the temple) and are negotiating terms on the still disputed land. It appears that the Cambodians are spending a lot of time on the disputed land, and even have troops IN the temple, which is against the 2000 MOU signed between Cambodia and Thailand.

Kinda like a farang owning a house but not the land. LOL

Just offer Cambodia a renewable lease contract for the land, as the Thais do for all other foreigners

[frenchcaptainbob]

:jap: Cambodia is doing the right & proper thing by bringing up the matter with ICJ...& I hope the Cambodians will abide by the decision made by ICJ. If Thailand thinks that they are above all international rules & regulations or much better than anyone else on this planet then they better WAKE UP!!! Knowing Thailand, whatever decision ade by ICJ will be ignored unless the decision goes their way.

Cambodia is doing the right & proper thing by bringing up the matter with ICJ....

Really now....!

I venture to guess that you were born much later than 1975 or so....

If you were to ask those over 50 and were around Southeast Asia around that era, they would tell you the Cambodian refugees were fleeing for their lives and settled on Thailand territorial where the UNESCO, International RED CROSS and others were setting up accommodations for those Cambodian refugees on Thai sovereignty and Thai soil....

The Temple is now listed by the UNESCO. As such, a WORLD HERITAGE, not really the only property of Cambodia. As for the land around, what do the Thais think to do with it ? Set Army bases ? Or start high rise condos ? Or put a fly over for a highway. ?

Certainly, this dispute has to be set on INTERNATIONAL LEVEL. Even Angkor Wat is IN Cambodia, and the land around belongs to Cambodia, they are not let free do do whatever they'd decide. Fortunately. By the way, it was the International Community to PAY for the restoration of Angkor Wat, and it's still the International Community to pay for constant maintenance. What do you think ? :jap:

Perhaps you were too young to know too that....that area where the Cambodian refugees were protected, fed and clothed and what not, while awaiting to be processed to a Third country....

that very same area and parcels of land belonging to Thai sovereignty then....

is now in this decade has became a dispute area claimed by the now Cambodian leader, HuSan et al, as the Cambodian territorial....

It is shameless, disgusting and ungrateful for the Cambodians to show their gratitude to the Thai govt in such a disgusting manner....

No, definitely not.... the current Cambodian representatives are not doing the right nor proper thing by bringing up the matter with IC...

It is disgustingly disgraceful showing unforgiveable ingratitude as well.... is my one man humble opinion....:jap:

[webfact]

Thailand Claims World Court Has No Jurisdiction in Border Dispute

After Cambodia appealed to the world court for a new interpretation of its 1962 judgment that gave Cambodia control over Preah Vihear Temple and asked the court to grant an injunction to order Thai troops out of the temple, Thailand responded by claiming the court has no jurisdiction to issue an injunction.

Both Thailand and Cambodia gave its opening statement in an oral hearing at the International Court of Justice yesterday, in response to Phnom Penh's petition asking the court to rule whether the land surrounding the ancient Preah Vihear Temple belongs to Cambodia and for an injunction for the immediate and unconditional withdrawal of Thai troops from the land surrounding the temple.

Representing Cambodia, Cambodian Foreign Minister Hor Namhong claimed Thai forces had inhumanely instigated murderous clashes and invasion onto Cambodian territory.

Thailand's ambassador to the Netherlands, Virachai Plasai, responded by saying that Cambodia provoked attacks on Thai territory.

He added that Cambodia has the ill intention of trying to portray Thailand as a big bad wolf bullying the lamb, which he argued is totally wrong.

Another member of the Thai defense team, James Crawford, said the 16-judge panel has no jurisdiction to issue a temporary injunction in this cae because a ruling has come out for the issue in 1962 already and Thailand has abided by the ruling.

-- Tan Network 2011-05-31

[regfrancis]

Ok, The UN court awarded the temple and land its on to Cambodia. So Thailand doesen't want Cambodia to pack up its temple and take it to Phnom Penh....very kind

So now Thais would need a passport and visa and clear imigration to go in the temple, and Cambodians would need to clear immigration in Thailand to access the temple??

Legal thinking Thai style.

[thairamsfan]

Vont ,

You are absolutely right. Let the airheads argue their stupid pro Cambodia ramblings !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[brianb1944]

:jap: Cambodia is doing the right & proper thing by bringing up the matter with ICJ...& I hope the Cambodians will abide by the decision made by ICJ. If Thailand thinks that they are above all international rules & regulations or much better than anyone else on this planet then they better WAKE UP!!! Knowing Thailand, whatever decision ade by ICJ will be ignored unless the decision goes their way.

Wow, I am so impressed with your in depth knowledge of the inner workings of the Thai Government. You must be really well connected?

[ryladie99]

When Cambodia won the last case we have abided by it?

I was unaware a legal ruling had a time limit, or in Thai this is this just until it suits me?

And a legal representation does not have to be bitter, merely a request for clarification.

When will these people ever grow up.

The 1962 judgement ruled on the temple. It specifically didn't rule on the land around it. The Thai's have abided by that ruling (on the temple) and are negotiating terms on the still disputed land. It appears that the Cambodians are spending a lot of time on the disputed land, and even have troops IN the temple, which is against the 2000 MOU signed between Cambodia and Thailand.

Thanks for posting and I agree with your Awesome thought. I have zero hope from the World Court. When will this conflict solve? May be next life.. I wish Thai government concentrated on Economy and citizens' well being . I feel so bad when I see Vietnam, Indonesia and Laos do well while The Thai people are suffering with so many domestic and International problems.

[vont]

:jap: Cambodia is doing the right & proper thing by bringing up the matter with ICJ...& I hope the Cambodians will abide by the decision made by ICJ. If Thailand thinks that they are above all international rules & regulations or much better than anyone else on this planet then they better WAKE UP!!! Knowing Thailand, whatever decision ade by ICJ will be ignored unless the decision goes their way.

Cambodia is doing the right & proper thing by bringing up the matter with ICJ....

Really now....!

I venture to guess that you were born much later than 1975 or so....

If you were to ask those over 50 and were around Southeast Asia around that era, they would tell you the Cambodian refugees were fleeing for their lives and settled on Thailand territorial where the UNESCO, International RED CROSS and others were setting up accommodations for those Cambodian refugees on Thai sovereignty and Thai soil....

Perhaps you were too young to know too that....that area where the Cambodian refugees were protected, fed and clothed and what not, while awaiting to be processed to a Third country....

that very same area and parcels of land belonging to Thai sovereignty then....

is now in this decade has became a dispute area claimed by the now Cambodian leader, HuSan et al, as the Cambodian territorial....

It is shameless, disgusting and ungrateful for the Cambodians to show their gratitude to the Thai govt in such a disgusting manner....

No, definitely not.... the current Cambodian representatives are not doing the right nor proper thing by bringing up the matter with IC...

It is disgustingly disgraceful showing unforgiveable ingratitude as well.... is my one man humble opinion....:jap:

I can assure u that I am born before 1975....& have u ever been near to the border area?? Have u ever came close to the border area besides reading news in some big city?? I have been leaving & working in the border between Cambodia & Thailand for 11 years. I'm not a farang, I'm not Cambodian or Thai either....and YES I know & have experince the war between the two country. Does it scare the living shit out of me when I hear the howitzer firing....the answer is YES!! So, my conclusion is YES Cambodia is doing the right thing by bringing this matter to ICJ....it will put an END to all this stupid war!!

I can assure u that I am born before 1975....& have u ever been near to the border area?? Have u ever came close to the border area besides reading news in some big city?? I have been leaving & working in the border between Cambodia & Thailand for 11 years.

Just to assure you that what I brought up in Thaivisa contains facts and nothing but facts....

Did you know that I was a volunteer then.... I did walked the walk and talked the talk.... on that very same spot that HuSan tried to claim as his own nowadays.....

Furthermore, I was also fortunate enough to also help those Cambodian refugees to resettle to America, in Iowa, Indiana, Utah and other States.... under the umbrella of Catholic Charity et al.... Ever heard of them while you were crossing in and out of Camb and Thailand?

You would, you definitely would.... had you been around then.... around those subhuman living conditions and standards for most westerners....

Also, if you were around those parcels of Thai sovereignty land then, you ought to be very familiar with all those organizations mentioned previously.

Now, to conclude.... whether you were farang, Thai, Cambodian, European, Chinese or others.... it would make no difference one bit....

It is simply improper and immoral trying to take advantages of the good nature charitable characteristic of Thailand.

Many around the globe presume as well as assume that.... SILENCE MEANS CONSENT.... applying that concept to Thailand.... it won't work very well....

Most Thai would remain silent on many issues, particularly when confronted with something they dislike or disagree with.... they would remain silent and pretend to be looking away or doing something total annoying to most westerners.... to assume that their silence and passivity mean consent to what you ask or do.... would be some light years from the truth....

This type of typical Thai behavior is disastrous in and of itself....

but.... I am afraid this same type of behavior will continue for some time to come.... until the new generation of Thai who will learn to speak up and speak out loudly to voice their individual disconsent and/or disagreement....

A case in point.... every Thai that I spoke with from Mare Sai to Sar Doaw.... everyone of them, male or female, hates corrupt officials....

but do you think any of them would confront those no good officials.... to speak their mind.... ?

Furthermore, do you think most Thai of voting age would come out and cast their dissenting votes to get rid of the corrupt govt representatives in the upcoming election?....

Sad as it may sound, personally I really doubt it.... very sad for everyone in Thailand; every Thai, farang and otherwise....

If someone has a magic wand.... please, please, please.... wave it and make it happens.... so Thailand officials in terms of honesty and transparency would be on about equal par with what we know and what we use to.... back in our own countries.... Thank you everyone for your patient and all. I shall remain mum and dumb for the duration, promise.

Edited May 31, 2011 by vont

[webfact]

Thailand to Dispute World Court's Jurisdiction over Border Row

Legal representatives of Thailand are preparing to lodge an objection to the International Court of Justice and its plan to rule on whether Thailand needs to withdraw troops from the disputed area around the Preah Vihear Temple, claiming that the court has no jurisdiction over the issue.

At the International Court of Justice in the Hague, the Netherlands, the second day of the hearing on a legal case filed by Cambodia asking the court to order a withdrawal of Thai troops from the disputed area around the Preah Vihear Temple is well underway.

Cambodia will present its case this afternoon, Bangkok time, followed by Thailand in the evening.

The court is expected to decide on the case sometime next month.

Thai representatives have prepared to raise two points in their argument against the case.

One is that the court simply has no jurisdiction over the border dispute and that Thailand has been adhering to the court's 1962 verdict, which does not require additional interpretation.

Meanwhile, Thai Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya has reported that the Cambodian legal team has backed up its claim on Cambodia's ownership of the 4.6-square kilometer disputed land around the Preah Vihear Temple by citing a map drawn up by France.

Kasit said that the Thai and Cambodian governments signed a memorandum of understanding in 2000 along with many border negotiations which have proven that both countries have mechanisms in place to solve conflicts.

Thailand will try to prove that the ICJ has no need to rule on the case.

Yesterday, Cambodian Foreign Minister Hor Namhong accused the Thai military of mass killings on Cambodian soil.

Weerachai Plasrai, who is heading the Thai delegation, repudiated the accusation, calming that it was Cambodia who clearly intruded on the Thai border.

Both sides claim that the Preah Vihear Temple is situated in their territory and no contest had been filed since the 1962 verdict.

The foreign press believe that both Thailand and Cambodia are seeking the court's ruling in order to ask the United Nations Security Council to enforce it.

At the same time, the Phnom Penh Post reported that a Thai soldier was apprehended in Cambodia.

According to Cambodian authorities, the soldier was caught spying.

He has been transferred into the custody of local Cambodian military officials and there has been no further report on the case.

-- Tan Network 2011-05-31

[webfact]

Govt Urged to Reject World Court's Jurisdiction

The People's Alliance for Democracy has reiterated its demand for Thai representatives at the International Court of Justice to reject the court's jurisdiction over the Preah Vihear Temple case in order to protect the country's border integrity.

Spokesperson for the People's Alliance for Democracy, Panthep Puapongpan, has commented on the legal battle over the Preah Vihear Temple at the International Court of Justice, or the ICJ, admitting that Thai representatives have presented their case along the line of the group's position.

However, Panthep said that Thailand's legal team should have refused to accept the court's jurisdiction, starting from the 1962 verdict which gave ownership of the ancient Khmer ruins to Cambodia.

At any rate, the PAD will keep a close watch on today's hearing.

Panthep pointed out that the reason Thailand has entangled itself in the legal dispute is because of the memorandum of understanding signed with Cambodia in the year 2000.

The PAD spokesperson said that with the weak Thai government and military, Cambodia has been violating the terms agreed upon in the MOU which has led to the Cambodian military's occupation of Thai territory and the recent border clashes.

Meanwhile, Chamlong Srimuang, who is one the yellow-shirt leaders, said Cambodia is attempting to seize part of Thai territory by seeking clarification of the 1962 ruling.

He added that to protect its border integrity, Thailand only has to reject the ICJ's jurisdiction or refuse to contest the Cambodia's claim in court.

-- Tan Network 2011-05-31

[creck]

The 1962 majority ruling of the ICJ was quite clear. The ownership of the temple was queried and it was given to Cambodia. Thailand withdrew from the temple.

"Thailand is under obligation to withdraw any troops in the area around the temple," the Cambodian representative said. That just isn't true.

Cambodia is under obligation to withdraw any troops from the temple. That is true.

Many posters seem to be saying it just isn't sensible for Cambodia to own the temple and Thailand to have sovereignty over the surrounding land. That is true.

The ruling was not sensible, that is why we have this problem. The ruling was based on a legal technicality that IMHO should not have been applied. This is the opinion stated by the minority of judges.

The treaty made between Siam and France (representing Cambodia) was clear, it did not refer to or rely on any map. It placed the temple and surrounding land in Thailand. The map is erroneous according to expert witness at the ICJ. The court accepted that. The map was prepared later. The map was intended to be illustrative; it was not intended to have any power to change the treaty.

In 1962, Thailand should have appealed the ruling ( I don't know how). The ICJ ruling does not need clarifying it needs changing.

No new ruling will stop any howitzers firing only Politicians and obedient armies can do that; Or a strong third party.

Edited May 31, 2011 by creck

[Codacoda]

Thais are right.

It was agreed in 1904 that the border goes at watershed line in this area.

French made dirty tricks with maps, set the border not along with watershed line in 1905-1908. That maps have never been agreed by Thais.

In 1962 the court was not Thai-Cambodia, but Thai-France (from 1880 until 1953 France fighted against Thai many times and shifted the border many times, expanding it's Indochina colony territory).

Representatives of Cambodia lived at French Embassy during the Court,

http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/index.php?sum=284&code=ct&p1=3&p2=3&case=45&k=46&p3=5 - The Court

Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties - Article 49 - Fraud - should be used for this case.

[tigermonkey]

:jap: Cambodia is doing the right & proper thing by bringing up the matter with ICJ...& I hope the Cambodians will abide by the decision made by ICJ. If Thailand thinks that they are above all international rules & regulations or much better than anyone else on this planet then they better WAKE UP!!! Knowing Thailand, whatever decision ade by ICJ will be ignored unless the decision goes their way.

Cambodia is doing the right & proper thing by bringing up the matter with ICJ....

Really now....!

I venture to guess that you were born much later than 1975 or so....

If you were to ask those over 50 and were around Southeast Asia around that era, they would tell you the Cambodian refugees were fleeing for their lives and settled on Thailand territorial where the UNESCO, International RED CROSS and others were setting up accommodations for those Cambodian refugees on Thai sovereignty and Thai soil....

Perhaps you were too young to know too that....that area where the Cambodian refugees were protected, fed and clothed and what not, while awaiting to be processed to a Third country....

that very same area and parcels of land belonging to Thai sovereignty then....

is now in this decade has became a dispute area claimed by the now Cambodian leader, HuSan et al, as the Cambodian territorial....

It is shameless, disgusting and ungrateful for the Cambodians to show their gratitude to the Thai govt in such a disgusting manner....

No, definitely not.... the current Cambodian representatives are not doing the right nor proper thing by bringing up the matter with IC...

It is disgustingly disgraceful showing unforgiveable ingratitude as well.... is my one man humble opinion....:jap:

You have a very selective and misguided view of history. There is no gratitude owed by the Cambodian government to the Thai government.

In 1979 there were thousands of Cambodian refugees on Thai soil due to the Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia. . During that year, the Thai military government of General Kriangsak Chomanan, summarily announced that they were repatriating the Cambodian refugees other than 1200 who could be resettled to other countries. The remaining refugees were bussed to Preah Vihear where they were forced over the 2,000 foot escarpment to the Cambodian plains below. Many who refused were shot.

Many fell to their death. As they climbed down on vines or ropes, the Thai soldiers pelted them with rocks. At the foot of the escarpment, a three mile wide mine field awaited the refugees. Between 3,000 and 10,000 died.

After these events , the UN and western governments took care of the needs of the refugees on Thai soil.

For this, Cambodia should show gratitude to Thailand ?

Edited May 31, 2011 by tigermonkey

[vont]

:jap: Cambodia is doing the right & proper thing by bringing up the matter with ICJ...& I hope the Cambodians will abide by the decision made by ICJ. If Thailand thinks that they are above all international rules & regulations or much better than anyone else on this planet then they better WAKE UP!!! Knowing Thailand, whatever decision ade by ICJ will be ignored unless the decision goes their way.

Cambodia is doing the right & proper thing by bringing up the matter with ICJ....

Really now....!

I venture to guess that you were born much later than 1975 or so....

If you were to ask those over 50 and were around Southeast Asia around that era, they would tell you the Cambodian refugees were fleeing for their lives and settled on Thailand territorial where the UNESCO, International RED CROSS and others were setting up accommodations for those Cambodian refugees on Thai sovereignty and Thai soil....

Perhaps you were too young to know too that....that area where the Cambodian refugees were protected, fed and clothed and what not, while awaiting to be processed to a Third country....

that very same area and parcels of land belonging to Thai sovereignty then....

is now in this decade has became a dispute area claimed by the now Cambodian leader, HuSan et al, as the Cambodian territorial....

It is shameless, disgusting and ungrateful for the Cambodians to show their gratitude to the Thai govt in such a disgusting manner....

No, definitely not.... the current Cambodian representatives are not doing the right nor proper thing by bringing up the matter with IC...

It is disgustingly disgraceful showing unforgiveable ingratitude as well.... is my one man humble opinion....:jap:

You have a very selective and misguided view of history. There is no gratitude owed by the Cambodian government to the Thai government.

In 1979 there were thousands of Cambodian refugees on Thai soil due to the Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia. . During that year, the Thai military government of General Kriangsak Chomanan, summarily announced that they were repatriating the Cambodian refugees other than 1200 who could be resettled to other countries. The remaining refugees were bussed to Preah Vihear where they were forced over the 2,000 foot escarpment to the Cambodian plains below. Many who refused were shot.

Many fell to their death. As they climbed down on vines or ropes, the Thai soldiers pelted them with rocks. At the foot of the escarpment, a three mile wide mine field awaited the refugees. Between 3,000 and 10,000 died.

After these events , the UN and western governments took care of the needs of the refugees on Thai soil.

For this, Cambodia should show gratitude to Thailand ?

Perhaps, you do not feel the need to be grateful....

but thousand upon thousand of other Cambodians, Vietnamese et al.... the first generation of resettled refugees have been grateful.... in spite all the hardship and undue emotional and physical torments suffered in the refugee campsite under Thai sovereignty then....

And a big thank you for stating what I have been trying to emphasize for so long at Thaivisa that....

the very location that the current Cambodian govt trying to have the world court adjudicates and declares to be within Cambodian sovereignty at this moment, in this decade....

that parcel of land since decades ago has been under Thai sovereignty ever since....

But HuSan wants that piece of land so badly that he is willing to go to the world court to justify his illegal occupation of land long ago has been under Thai sovereignty.... and not only that.... he also wants the connecting parcels as well.... so his govt can manage those parcels for the good of the world heritage....

Thank you for saying the following in Thailand behalf.....

After these events , the UN and western governments took care of the needs of the refugees on Thai soil.

Those parcels currently in dispute and under world court agenda.... have been indeed under Thai sovereignty since the beginning of 1900.... Cambodian govt and HuSan have no shame trying to claim them by various distortions and means....