Bar Owners Beware- Music "Police" Scam

[fester471]

A group of individuals who purport to be Music Police have recently been arrested in Pattaya extorting money from bar owners who they say were playing "unlicensed" Thai music. They hold no rights to any Thai music but have false documents saying they do.

They were bailed and have now turned up in Chiang Mai undertaking the same scam.

These people are NOT POLICE they have no offical ID but are mafia thugs, although certainly from my information they have support from some anonymous corrupt police officers working night shifts who use these people to extort money from bar owners.

They will show up with about 6 people including a very rude and obnoxious young woman and ask to look at your computer and music licenses they have no right to do this and are in fact trespassing. If you allow them near your computer beware they will load music onto it that they will falsely tell you that they hold the license too and then ask you to pay anything up to 200,000bt to ensure they dont press charges.

You MUST NOT pay them anything this is a scam, they are thugs and will try to remove you computer and then "arrest" ie kidnap a staff member , always Thai, to go with them to the police station. Please do not allow anyone to go with them otherwise they will intimidate the person to pay , in fact they will go to a police station in Chiang Mai it seems that the night police at Chang Puak Station are on the take from these people and will co-operate with them to a point where a charge is laid against the person who was kidnapped by these people.

If you are unable to stop them from taking somebody & your computer then you MUST press a counter charge against them for assault / kidnapping, as they must not touch anyone which they will do if there is some minor resistance. This will stop them in their tracks they are very smug until charges are laid then they try to negotiate down to you paying them say 5000bt to drop their charge and you yours, DONT PAY THEM ANYTHING hold your ground and tell them you will be happy to go to court. The 5000bt is the minimum they must pay the corrupt police at the station to keep this going if you refuse to pay they will be in big trouble with their masters, but if charges are laid against them then it is official and the small number of real police involved can do nothing.

They will back down it may take several hours but hold your ground as long as you press charges against the individuals as their is a 5 year prison term for any type of assault in Thailand, you will get your computer back.

Contact the company who you have your official music licensing through urgently they hate these people and will provide legal support as some were involved in the charges laid against this group in Pattaya & soon to be in Chiang Mai too.

If you are a Farang owner it is very important that you have a strong Thai to assist you in talking with these people they are intimidating but try to stand up to them , also take their photographs or better still a video, they will try hard to stop you but it is a legal right to do this and will help them to backoff. Also if you install a video camera in the bar, even a dummy would help and point it out it may deter them also.

Above all try to remain as calm as you can , its not easy but they will intimidate to a point without actual full physical violence but remind them that if they touch you or your staff in any way you will charge them with assault and make sure they know you know that its a jail term. They speak no English either.

If anybody wants further information please contact me , I have video of what these people look like also which I cant post on here , as they are more than 2mb but am happy to provide to anyone who needs it.

A brief description of some of these people:

Small woman with short hair who carries official looking documention - very rude and agressive

At least 3 others one who will keep indicating they are police but refuse to show any ID.

A large standover type guy who will stay in the background until you start to stand your ground.

All tend to be dressed in a low-so manner.

PLEASE DONT GET CAUGHT like many others have the Police get enough from bar owners already via "legitimate" corruption without them employing mafia to impersonate them and extort more through lies.

[TheWalkingMan]

Post that video on youtube/vimeo/dailymotion/ everywhere you can think.

TheWalkingMan

[dunkin2012]

Have anyone Thai or Farang been scammed?

can you upload it to youtube and then make a hyperlink to this thred please? 2 mbs is easy to be uploaded.

you mean they are around Pattaya and haven't been caught yet.

[fester471]

Thanks for the suggestion I have posted on Youtube:

[fester471]

They were arrested in Pattaya , as per the video links and were given bail and fled Pattaya , now have turned up in Chiang Mai but I would suggest they will leave from here too as the heat is on but they could turn up anywhere.

[fester471]

In the youtube vids posted:

1. You will see a woman in a white shirt & guy in lime green and a couple of other individuals who are part of the group.

2. The guy in red is one of the main players and tries to pass himself off as police but wont show ID, look carefully you will see the same woman outside again in white and obviously the one who stops the filming is one too but not a clear face picture of him.

[dunkin2012]

In the youtube vids posted:

1. You will see a woman in a white shirt & guy in lime green and a couple of other individuals who are part of the group.

2. The guy in red is one of the main players and tries to pass himself off as police but wont show ID, look carefully you will see the same woman outside again in white and obviously the one who stops the filming is one too but not a clear face picture of him.

how did you get the clip anyway? you shot it or someone else?

Can't watch youtube while i'm in my office. I will do it later at home.

[Penkoprod]

Nothing new here...in fact an old scam where nothing weas done about it then:

http://www.thaivisa....9-Music-Police/

http://www.thaivisa....pyright-Police/

Will this latest incarnation of it go the same way (Todays news is tomorrows wrapping paper)?

Just another reason not to get involved in running a bar or guesthouse, i guess

Penkoprod

[Richard4849]

Fester: what makes you think these imposters are "employed" by the police to impersonate them?

[Beetlejuice]

A little birdy told me that these scammers have full backing of the police in Pattaya that are also in on the scam.

If the bar owner refuses to pay up then the police are called that insure money changes hands, mostly by intimidation of threaten with heavy fines, closure of the farangs illegal business, imprisonment or even deportation.

Rather you than me, I would never become involved with these businesses and the criminal element they attract.

[Beetlejuice]

Thanks for the suggestion I have posted on Youtube:

Just watched these videos. What a nasty vile piece of work these people are.

Even worst thugs then the people that own the businesses.

As I said; do not get involved within these adult entertainment industries, if you value your well being and life that is. it`s just not worth the hassle.

[somtampet]

A little birdy told me that these scammers have full backing of the police in Pattaya that are also in on the scam.

If the bar owner refuses to pay up then the police are called that insure money changes hands, mostly by intimidation of threaten with heavy fines, closure of the farangs illegal business, imprisonment or even deportation.

Rather you than me, I would never become involved with these businesses and the criminal element they attract.

How long ago did this little birdy tell u,as this scam is not new.This has been going on for 5 years on and off,and the police have told the owners to report them to the police,fact.

[saintofsilence]

Another mafia scam that is supported by police how disgraceful .

[Beetlejuice]

A little birdy told me that these scammers have full backing of the police in Pattaya that are also in on the scam.

If the bar owner refuses to pay up then the police are called that insure money changes hands, mostly by intimidation of threaten with heavy fines, closure of the farangs illegal business, imprisonment or even deportation.

Rather you than me, I would never become involved with these businesses and the criminal element they attract.

How long ago did this little birdy tell u,as this scam is not new.This has been going on for 5 years on and off,and the police have told the owners to report them to the police,fact.

I am fully aware that these scams have been going on for a long time and now my little birdy grass is claiming his pension, that`s how old these scams are.

What anyone delves into here is up to them and do so at their own risks. But they had better know what they are doing and what the score maybe.

Edited May 31, 2011 by Beetlejuice

[fester471]

This scam has been going on for some years, these are the latest group who have been given the "job" by police to undertake this activity, they have been operating in Chiang Mai over the past few days.

I know they work for corrupt police because my informant tells me that in their desperation to have charges dropped they were pretty much pleaded to be paid 5000bt as this is what the Chang Puak police wanted otherwise they were in big trouble.

In their latest raids on bars in Chiang Mai they dont come with any police unlike in the past which is why if they take somebody away from a bar it is considered kidnapping.

[Richard4849]

So, have charges actually been brought against them? Has there been any ruling yet?

You know, there is more than a slight chance that they are carrying legitimate Powers of Attorney from some shady Thai music company.

[dunkin2012]

A little birdy told me that these scammers have full backing of the police in Pattaya that are also in on the scam.

If the bar owner refuses to pay up then the police are called that insure money changes hands, mostly by intimidation of threaten with heavy fines, closure of the farangs illegal business, imprisonment or even deportation.

Rather you than me, I would never become involved with these businesses and the criminal element they attract.

then this is similar to jetski scams where the police were there to negotiate with the jetski bosses........

and make foreigners pay heaps of money.

[Richard4849]

No...this is totally different from the jet ski scam, as I'm betting most of the victims ARE in fact playing music without the proper rights. If they weren't, why would they agree to pay fines to anyone?

[fester471]

No...this is totally different from the jet ski scam, as I'm betting most of the victims ARE in fact playing music without the proper rights. If they weren't, why would they agree to pay fines to anyone?

What you suggest about the bar owners having proper licensing could be true in some cases but remember that these scammers have NO rights to music their documentation is FALSE and people pay because they intimidate them with the help of police, if it ever got to a court the documentation would be proven false, but of course it never gets that far.

Which is why I suggest people must stand up to them and counter charge them with a criminal offence such as assault or kidnapping.

[slapout]

Richard; Not sure how long you have been in Thailand, nor your direct involvement with so called Thai authorities (real/professed to be). Here in CM it has taken years to sentence a group of army slugs who were charging 'Night bazaar vendors' for the space they occupied. They (authorities) seem to have forgotten the group who charged for storage/handling the vendors carts each night. Many business owners/vendors have gone into business with assurances that they had jump thru the appropriate hoops, procured the correct licenses, permits, etc and then these leeches come on the scene. Many of these unemployed/able excuses of mankind are a testament to a non functioning social order.

The music, jet ski, tuk tuk/taxi, gem stone, beggars, etc are all similar in that they take advantage of the general population who have been brought up to trust and expect fair treatment from those in authority and those who provide a service to customers/tourists.

[Richard4849]

No...this is totally different from the jet ski scam, as I'm betting most of the victims ARE in fact playing music without the proper rights. If they weren't, why would they agree to pay fines to anyone?

What you suggest about the bar owners having proper licensing could be true in some cases but remember that these scammers have NO rights to music their documentation is FALSE and people pay because they intimidate them with the help of police, if it ever got to a court the documentation would be proven false, but of course it never gets that far.

Which is why I suggest people must stand up to them and counter charge them with a criminal offence such as assault or kidnapping.

How do you know their documentation is false? There are dozens and dozens of less-than-sordid Thai music companies out there, many of whom are well known to "sell" such documentation to teams like this.

Have they actually been convicted of document forgery, or are you making a big assumption? What music company's name appears on these documents, and has someone actually contacted them in an effort to confirm?

[fester471]

No...this is totally different from the jet ski scam, as I'm betting most of the victims ARE in fact playing music without the proper rights. If they weren't, why would they agree to pay fines to anyone?

What you suggest about the bar owners having proper licensing could be true in some cases but remember that these scammers have NO rights to music their documentation is FALSE and people pay because they intimidate them with the help of police, if it ever got to a court the documentation would be proven false, but of course it never gets that far.

Which is why I suggest people must stand up to them and counter charge them with a criminal offence such as assault or kidnapping.

How do you know their documentation is false? There are dozens and dozens of less-than-sordid Thai music companies out there, many of whom are well known to "sell" such documentation to teams like this.

Have they actually been convicted of document forgery, or are you making a big assumption? What music company's name appears on these documents, and has someone actually contacted them in an effort to confirm?

They have been arrested and charged in Pattaya last month with having these documents the charges were brought by the legitimate holders of the licences & the group is currently on bail but on the run elsewhere in Thailand.

[Richard4849]

Thanks for the explanation and extra details. If that is the case, then these people surely deserve to be locked up.

And -- slapout -- I have been in Thailand over twenty years, am a naturalized Thai citizen, and deal with the authorities on a daily basis (thank you very much).

[SAW]

Beer bars can not play Thai music end of story. Even having a Thai music CD behind the bar is an excuse for the scum bags to extort money from you.

If you are playing music from a computer you even need a license for that and if there is any counterfeit software on your computer even anti virus they will get you for that if they cant for anything else, basically any excuse to extort money.

Have all license's in order, buy a brand new computer and when the shopkeeper asks if you want any free software installed tell them politely NO! Keep the receipt handy behind the bar from where you purchased the computer. Regardless if you think your computer is OK its not worth the risk for 20 or 30 thousand Baht go buy a brand new one!

Ban all staff from bringing in CD's and throw out every CD behind the bar and use MP3 only and NO Thai music and never use the computer to go online in case you accidentally download something you shouldn't.

Have a good lawyers phone number to hand and the number of the licensing department in Bangkok where the representative came to your establishment to hand you your certificate(s) then you won't have any problems if/when the scum bags come to extort money.

It's a game if your in it you got to play it.

[Richard4849]

Beer bars can not play Thai music end of story. Even having a Thai music CD behind the bar is an excuse for the scum bags to extort money from you.

If you are playing music from a computer you even need a license for that and if there is any counterfeit software on your computer even anti virus they will get you for that if they cant for anything else, basically any excuse to extort money.

Have all license's in order, buy a brand new computer and when the shopkeeper asks if you want any free software installed tell them politely NO! Keep the receipt handy behind the bar from where you purchased the computer. Regardless if you think your computer is OK its not worth the risk for 20 or 30 thousand Baht go buy a brand new one!

Ban all staff from bringing in CD's and throw out every CD behind the bar and use MP3 only and NO Thai music and never use the computer to go online in case you accidentally download something you shouldn't.

Have a good lawyers phone number to hand and the number of the licensing department in Bangkok where the representative came to your establishment to hand you your certificate(s) then you won't have any problems if/when the scum bags come to extort money.

It's a game if your in it you got to play it.

Yes, what you say is true. Breaking the law -- no matter how trivial it may seem to you -- will always open you up to people who will seek to gain by it.

Moral of the story: stay legal, I suppose.

[saraburioz]

Could foreign bar-owners be that stupid? erm IME yes, they aren't usually the shrpest of tools.

[fester471]

Beer bars can not play Thai music end of story. Even having a Thai music CD behind the bar is an excuse for the scum bags to extort money from you.

If you are playing music from a computer you even need a license for that and if there is any counterfeit software on your computer even anti virus they will get you for that if they cant for anything else, basically any excuse to extort money.

Have all license's in order, buy a brand new computer and when the shopkeeper asks if you want any free software installed tell them politely NO! Keep the receipt handy behind the bar from where you purchased the computer. Regardless if you think your computer is OK its not worth the risk for 20 or 30 thousand Baht go buy a brand new one!

Ban all staff from bringing in CD's and throw out every CD behind the bar and use MP3 only and NO Thai music and never use the computer to go online in case you accidentally download something you shouldn't.

Have a good lawyers phone number to hand and the number of the licensing department in Bangkok where the representative came to your establishment to hand you your certificate(s) then you won't have any problems if/when the scum bags come to extort money.

It's a game if your in it you got to play it.

What you say about Thai music is not entirely correct, if you have the REAL correct licence its not a problem, all the other points you make should certainly be heeded by anyone especially farang playing music or video's.

[slapout]

Thanks for the explanation and extra details. If that is the case, then these people surely deserve to be locked up.

And -- slapout -- I have been in Thailand over twenty years, am a naturalized Thai citizen, and deal with the authorities on a daily basis (thank you very much).

Glad??? you are naturalized Thai, 20 years in Thailand, is no step for a stepper, but to deal with Thai authorities on a daily basis could be impressive to some. These thugs are undoubtedly not official Thai authorities and as you pointed out need to be locked up. Lockup would be a start, forfeiture of ill-gotten assists would send a stronger message to others.

[Richard4849]

Thanks for the explanation and extra details. If that is the case, then these people surely deserve to be locked up.

And -- slapout -- I have been in Thailand over twenty years, am a naturalized Thai citizen, and deal with the authorities on a daily basis (thank you very much).

Glad??? you are naturalized Thai, 20 years in Thailand, is no step for a stepper, but to deal with Thai authorities on a daily basis could be impressive to some. These thugs are undoubtedly not official Thai authorities and as you pointed out need to be locked up. Lockup would be a start, forfeiture of ill-gotten assists would send a stronger message to others.

Even simpler, people need to stop doing illegal things that make them targets for criminals. Yes, even if it is playing music in your bar that you have not paid a license for.

[fester471]

Thanks for the explanation and extra details. If that is the case, then these people surely deserve to be locked up.

And -- slapout -- I have been in Thailand over twenty years, am a naturalized Thai citizen, and deal with the authorities on a daily basis (thank you very much).

Glad??? you are naturalized Thai, 20 years in Thailand, is no step for a stepper, but to deal with Thai authorities on a daily basis could be impressive to some. These thugs are undoubtedly not official Thai authorities and as you pointed out need to be locked up. Lockup would be a start, forfeiture of ill-gotten assists would send a stronger message to others.

The police protect their own to a point until it becomes a criminal charge then they abandon them but of course in the meantime they make a great deal of money from these thugs .... but typical of corrupt officials they are like rats that desert the sinking ship and nobody in this country will ever get the people behind it as it goes up too high.