I have downloaded a copy of "Anapanasati" by Buddhadana Bhikku which I got from a link here. I'm wanting to start with this type of meditation but I want to be sure I get the breathing right and I'm a bit confused. In this text it says that for the longest in-breathe the abdomen should contract to the maximum and the chest should expand to the maximum and that for the longest possible out-breath the abdomen should expand to the maximum and the chest should contract to the maximum. My experiences from other types of meditation have taught me that on the in-breath the abdomen should move outward which to me means that it is expanding and for the out-breath the abdomen should move inward which means to me that it is contracting....if my understanding of the terms 'expanding' and 'contracting' as they apply to the abdomen is correct then the description in this text is contrary to all I have learned and experienced....so I'm looking for some verification. Does anyone know of another text which they would recommend about anapanasati and especially the breathing technique.

I was also told that by someone. So I asked here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=44606

So us TVites seem to be agreed.

I have practised a number of systems and usually the teacher will say 'you must do it like this...' , I always ask myself 'if I do it another way, does that mean I cannot get enlightened?' and then the answer seems clear to me.

An example, I was at a Wat Maha Taht style retreat and the teacher insisted that my foot had to stop moving momentarily between each movement of lifting, moving, placing etc.... I do walking meditation as a flowing movement (I also focus on the stationary foot, as in Tai Chi, though no way I'd tell him that!) It is useful to have a fixed meditation style/teaching, but still it has to be tempered with wisdom, and your own experience.

I know we are not supposed to link to other forums (particularly one of them) but this is a good link

http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/

Chownah, I got confused just reading your description! I don't know if this helps...

If you know basic biology, you know that all muscles contract and relax (never expand), and that the breathing part of the abdomen is the horizontal muscular sheet between your lungs and your guts (diaphragm). Good breathing while inactive ought to use mainly the diaphragm (as opposed to your ribcage). In practice, we don't, and it's tricky, and takes a conscious effort, to start using your diaphragm.

The diaphragm is convex, and anchored at the edges, like this:

` ___

./guts\.

| guts |

To breath in, the diaphragm muscles contract, making it flatten down. This pushes downward on your guts, which therefore bulge outward.

.____.

( guts )

The result that you see is that your abdomen appears to get larger, ie expand! But what's really happening is your diaphragm contracting. So one of your texts is describing the outward bodily appearance, while the other is describing what happens from a scientific knowledge of our internals. But they want to say the same thing.

Incidentally, if you happen to have a "six pack"... that's irrelevant. Those abdominal muscles are not the ones involved in breathing. They ought to be relaxed at all times, otherwise they will work against your breathing, by making it harder for your diaphragm to pull down. This is particularly difficult if you are learning to sit in a lotus-type position, as there is a tendency to use those muscles to pull yourself upright. And that's why "abdominal breathing" helps ensure you relax all your muscles, even the ones you aren't normally aware of.

Chownah, I got confused just reading your description! I don't know if this helps...

If you know basic biology, you know that all muscles contract and relax (never expand), and that the breathing part of the abdomen is the horizontal muscular sheet between your lungs and your guts (diaphragm). Good breathing while inactive ought to use mainly the diaphragm (as opposed to your ribcage). In practice, we don't, and it's tricky, and takes a conscious effort, to start using your diaphragm.

The diaphragm is convex, and anchored at the edges, like this:

` ___

./guts\.

| guts |

To breath in, the diaphragm muscles contract, making it flatten down. This pushes downward on your guts, which therefore bulge outward.

.____.

( guts )

The result that you see is that your abdomen appears to get larger, ie expand! But what's really happening is your diaphragm contracting. So one of your texts is describing the outward bodily appearance, while the other is describing what happens from a scientific knowledge of our internals. But they want to say the same thing.

Incidentally, if you happen to have a "six pack"... that's irrelevant. Those abdominal muscles are not the ones involved in breathing. They ought to be relaxed at all times, otherwise they will work against your breathing, by making it harder for your diaphragm to pull down. This is particularly difficult if you are learning to sit in a lotus-type position, as there is a tendency to use those muscles to pull yourself upright. And that's why "abdominal breathing" helps ensure you relax all your muscles, even the ones you aren't normally aware of.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the reply....and, yes, I understand completely and agree completely with everything you say.....it seems, however, that the description in the anapanasati text contradicts this. They say that on the long breath when breathing in that the abdomen should contract whereas what you and I are both saying is that it should bulge out or appear to expand. I've looked around and have not found another place that describes the breathing for this type of meditation but I'm starting to get the feeling that the author's idea of the abdoment contracting is the same thing as when we say that it bulges out.....anyway.....unless I can find something which strongly agrees with the author's description I'm going to just go ahead and do exactly what you have described since it is what I have always been taught in every type of meditation I've studied and seems to me to be the obviously least stressful and most relaxed form of breathing. Thanks again for you reply.

on the long breath when breathing in that the abdomen should contract

The "abdominal sheet" does :-) well perhaps it's an imprecise translation...