Thai PM Abhisit Slams Rivals' Thaksin 'Whitewash'

[anon467367354]

the red shirts merged upon bangkok to terrorize the people in hopes of the government giving in. the looting, the violence, destroying property, the we will burn every building including Sirijad hospital off the face of thailand, get your gasoline here, 1000000 liters of gasoline etc etc etc, how can they not be called terrorists? Taksin bragged about not having a thai passport and being a citizen of montenegro or where ever he said he is a citizen of now. would they give him a visa? if they did would they offer him a work permit? do laws mean anything? if Taksin did just waltz back into thailand, get his amnesty, it would be a case of ironic mai bpen rai and som nam na biting them in the ass. personally I don't think we need someone that has made their fortune in corrupt ways taking control of the already corrupt government, but that's just me.

[PingManDan]

For every finger the PM points at Thaksin, there are 3 pointing back at him

[diehard60]

I dont understand why anyone would be proud of winning the last four elections when they've achieved it through threats, vote buying, bribery, corruption, assisted bribery and false law suits - no matter how poular with the poor of Isan he may be, hes achieved it through bribery and corruption - "but the people love him" is not a defence for Thaksin, it wouldnt see a convicted criminal get into power in the west, although the exception of Italy and its leader Berlesconi springs to mind, but current events there should serve as a reminder.People bought up in western culture should know this. If the fugutive returns, bribery, corruption and scandal will return with him and the few rich in bangkok will be left paying for the bribes through their taxes, just like the last time - remember this mans crimes before you shout "bring him back".

I see! And I supose NO other party is guilty of VOTE BUYING?????????? Threats????? that comes to mind also. CORRUPTION??????????????????????? WOW ! I guess no other party is corupt. RIGHT?????????? When are you going to wake up???

[diehard60]

Would amnesty not just be a admission of guilt.

If you are innocent why would you need it?

Yes I know there are some being charged with crimes who might not be guiilty but that in no way means that if they go to trial they will be found guilty.

The way I see it is that the Puea Thai is saying the events in Bangkok a year ago were OK.

No big deal that as a direct result of a lot of the people they are seeking amnesty for 90 deaths and a attempt to burn Bangkok down occurred.

Gee 90 people dead. I think - I may be wrong - the majority of them were CIVILIANS?????????? Not military or police. So who killed them. their brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, aumts, and uncles???????? NO it was the police and military ordered by the number 2 in office.

[diehard60]

It is a blanket amnesty, so the army that killed unarmed civillians, the government that ordered the killings or are complicit in the cover up etc will also be included in the amnesty, Abhsitis comment "He should come back and serve his sentence as any Thai would have to." will hopefully come back to haunt him and his cronies in the coming months as charges are rightly laid against them.

Perhaps you were not here when all the trouble happened. There is documented evidence that the red shirts were armed. Where did you ever get the idea they were unarmed?

In no way did the Government order the army to kill people. They were charged with stopping a illegal seizure of Municipal and private property. It was unfortunate that the criminals were armed and choose to fight rather than obey the law.

I am quite sure that if you were to stop and consider that if it was your property they illegally seized and turned into a garbage dump you might have a different out look on the event.

For myself I am a retiree living in Thailand. I am a farong and can not vote. I stand to gain absolutely nothing by trying to change reality. This allows me to take a honest look at events. For instance I supported the Red Shirt when they had there initial rally after about ten days it was abundantly clear that they did not support there ideas. They did not want democracy they wanted a dictatorship under there rule. Now if I had any thing to gain by there actions I might not have seen that I would have been looking at my personal gain.

Hey??? Did we forget the Yellow shirts??????? I had friends stuck at the airport and they couldn't leave. But I guess that was all right to do. because they are part of the ELITE of Bangkok. RIGHT?????????????

[Buchholz]

it was the police and military ordered by the number 2 in office.

the unsubstantiated pie-in-the-sky speculations rolls on...

[wolfmanjack]

It is a blanket amnesty, so the army that killed unarmed civillians, the government that ordered the killings or are complicit in the cover up etc will also be included in the amnesty, Abhsitis comment "He should come back and serve his sentence as any Thai would have to." will hopefully come back to haunt him and his cronies in the coming months as charges are rightly laid against them.

Perhaps you were not here when all the trouble happened. There is documented evidence that the red shirts were armed. Where did you ever get the idea they were unarmed?

In no way did the Government order the army to kill people. They were charged with stopping a illegal seizure of Municipal and private property. It was unfortunate that the criminals were armed and choose to fight rather than obey the law.

I am quite sure that if you were to stop and consider that if it was your property they illegally seized and turned into a garbage dump you might have a different out look on the event.

For myself I am a retiree living in Thailand. I am a farong and can not vote. I stand to gain absolutely nothing by trying to change reality. This allows me to take a honest look at events. For instance I supported the Red Shirt when they had there initial rally after about ten days it was abundantly clear that they did not support there ideas. They did not want democracy they wanted a dictatorship under there rule. Now if I had any thing to gain by there actions I might not have seen that I would have been looking at my personal gain.

Hey??? Did we forget the Yellow shirts??????? I had friends stuck at the airport and they couldn't leave. But I guess that was all right to do. because they are part of the ELITE of Bangkok. RIGHT?????????????

Actually most of us that do not like thaksin think the yellow shirts that took the airport should go to jail also. Every person that can be identified that took control of the airport should spend time in jail. Every person that struck Abhisits car should spend time in jail every person that attacked the riot police or army lines or do not cross lines should spend time in jail. Every person that can be identified burning city halls should spend time in jail. Every Yellow or red leader that stood on stage and advocated violence should spend time in jail.

[anterian]

As it is clear that even assumed intelligent, educated farangs can have completely opposite opinions and recollections and understanding of past events. What chance does a simple semi literate Thai have? Thailand likes to think it is a Cyclopean presence in SE Asia, yes it is, and like Polyphemus has been blinded not by Odysseus but by the army.

[spidermike007]

Abhisit is absolutely correct to call this a whitewash. Those supporting the fugitive are engaging in the rehabilitation of his reputation. The fact is, that Thailand has been guilty of not bringing him to justice, out of fear. They should have had him extradited within months of the time the coward fled the country, and brought him to swift justice. He used a law that he passed for his own benefit, to avoid paying $400,000,000 (US dollars!), in taxes. He is a scoundrel. Why the people thing for a nanosecond that he gives a rat's ass about them, if beyond me. If he was so concerned about his country, think of what they could have done with that tax bill. Had he paid it, he might have still been in power. He is a criminal, and he wants to come back to rule Thailand again. Yingluck is as much of an empty shirt as Palin is. She is the Sarah Palin of Thailand. Though Abhisit has not done nearly as much as he could have, he is a competent leader. Yingluck would be laughed out of the room, if she were meeting with a group of foreign diplomats. Besides her brother, and a tiny bit of good looks, what else does she have to offer? Very, very little, I am afraid.

[Colin Yai]

I dont understand why anyone would be proud of winning the last four elections when they've achieved it through threats, vote buying, bribery, corruption, assisted bribery and false law suits - no matter how poular with the poor of Isan he may be, hes achieved it through bribery and corruption - "but the people love him" is not a defence for Thaksin, it wouldnt see a convicted criminal get into power in the west, although the exception of Italy and its leader Berlesconi springs to mind, but current events there should serve as a reminder.People bought up in western culture should know this. If the fugutive returns, bribery, corruption and scandal will return with him and the few rich in bangkok will be left paying for the bribes through their taxes, just like the last time - remember this mans crimes before you shout "bring him back".

I must say you have an acute sense of reality and I compliment you ,however this is Thailand and thoughts like yours are not really appreciated (or even believed) by the masses up here in Issan, the bottom line is of course you are quite right in everything you say ,the big problem is these people up in Issan here find it impossible to discern the truth from fantasy land.

[yoshiwara]

Abhisit and his master Suthep are bringing Thailand shame. The big whitewash is 93 demonstrators killed by army bullets and a security tzar telling the world that they were not shot by the military but that "they walked into the bullets". The international Criminal court or in a few decades the Thai courts will deal with either one and maybe also Thaksin time will tell. But Abhisit has as much or even more blood on his hands than Thaksin.

In Latin America we only see now military sponsored amnesty laws repelled and military commanders and prime ministers brought to justice. Not a great idea for a man in his 40's. Abhisit is simply a sore loser.

A standard message pushed out by Thaksin's apologists who supported Arisman's instructions to burn down Bangkok and didn't see it and encouraged the Blackshirts to go on the offensive and didn't see that either and said nothing when Thaksin attacked gays as the 'problem' behind the establishment and always go silent when Thaksin attacks the 'fake' reds who the cheerleaders were previously defending. It is Thaksin who has been the consistent loser. That hurts, so anything goes from the fake reconciliationists.

[Colin Yai]

Abhisit is absolutely correct to call this a whitewash. Those supporting the fugitive are engaging in the rehabilitation of his reputation. The fact is, that Thailand has been guilty of not bringing him to justice, out of fear. They should have had him extradited within months of the time the coward fled the country, and brought him to swift justice. He used a law that he passed for his own benefit, to avoid paying $400,000,000 (US dollars!), in taxes. He is a scoundrel. Why the people thing for a nanosecond that he gives a rat's ass about them, if beyond me. If he was so concerned about his country, think of what they could have done with that tax bill. Had he paid it, he might have still been in power. He is a criminal, and he wants to come back to rule Thailand again. Yingluck is as much of an empty shirt as Palin is. She is the Sarah Palin of Thailand. Though Abhisit has not done nearly as much as he could have, he is a competent leader. Yingluck would be laughed out of the room, if she were meeting with a group of foreign diplomats. Besides her brother, and a tiny bit of good looks, what else does she have to offer? Very, very little, I am afraid.

Yeah Mike a good solid post with which I find little or no disagreement with ,the problem here is I've just asked my wife who is pretty bright who Sarah Palin is,the look on her face told all, I do not think for a moment that to many Thailand is the only Country that really exists , and from what I hear this is drummed into them from a very early age.

[Colin Yai]

I been here since 2003 and I hope you are right we called it the land of smiles back then and it was. Let the Thais have their say and all of us listen and keep our non voting mouth shut!

Effectively, you are telling everyone here to stop expressing an opinion, having in the sentence just prior, shared your own.

Hey "Rix" Nice one!, yeah I have seen this so many times before ,when a farang says ,"this is a Thai thing" and non of your business ,whilst making comments right left and centre himself about the Thai political scene himself ,do I smell a slight whiff of total hypocrisy here ?? Edited June 10, 2011 by Colin Yai

[hyperdimension]

the big problem is these people up in Issan here find it impossible to discern the truth from fantasy land.

I agree, and such a view is often labeled as elitist. It's difficult to imagine millions of people deceived, though it has happened historically and it still happens all the time around the world in marketing and religion. Some people are easier to deceive than others, particularly the poor and less educated and less critical of thinkers. Thaksin / Pheu Thai / UDD have definitely put a lot of effort into their marketing and public relations (propaganda), whereas Abhisit admits he didn't bother, hoping that his actions would be enough:

Abhisit said he might have made the mistake of not using marketing to lead politics.

"Instead, I left the truth to be proved by action. This has become a weak point that allowed opponents to distort the facts about my work constantly during the past two years," he said.

(Source: Abhisit insists he did his best to tackle problem of corruption)

Abhisit may have overestimated the intellectual capacity of the majority of Thai people, as they may not be able to understand a lot of his governments' achievements such as improvements in the economy. Even such a thing as the way he communicates is too "posh" for the common folk and they find him difficult to understand.

Edited June 10, 2011 by hyperdimension

[rixalex]

I been here since 2003 and I hope you are right we called it the land of smiles back then and it was. Let the Thais have their say and all of us listen and keep our non voting mouth shut!

Effectively, you are telling everyone here to stop expressing an opinion, having in the sentence just prior, shared your own.

Hey "Rix" Nice one!, yeah I have seen this so many times before ,when a farang says ,"this is a Thai thing" and non of your business ,whilst making comments right left and centre himself about the Thai political scene himself ,do I smell a slight whiff of total hypocrisy here ??

Hey Colin Big. Your fourth post in five years and you mention me. I am honoured!

[animatic]

I been here since 2003 and I hope you are right we called it the land of smiles back then and it was. Let the Thais have their say and all of us listen and keep our non voting mouth shut!

Effectively, you are telling everyone here to stop expressing an opinion, having in the sentence just prior, shared your own.

Hey "Rix" Nice one!, yeah I have seen this so many times before ,when a farang says ,"this is a Thai thing" and non of your business ,whilst making comments right left and centre himself about the Thai political scene himself ,do I smell a slight whiff of total hypocrisy here ??

Hey Colin Big. Your fourth post in five years and you mention me. I am honoured!

I guess he never knew anyone before 2003,

and most expats here think it was going down hill by 2001.

[Colin Yai]

I been here since 2003 and I hope you are right we called it the land of smiles back then and it was. Let the Thais have their say and all of us listen and keep our non voting mouth shut!

Effectively, you are telling everyone here to stop expressing an opinion, having in the sentence just prior, shared your own.

Hey "Rix" Nice one!, yeah I have seen this so many times before ,when a farang says ,"this is a Thai thing" and non of your business ,whilst making comments right left and centre himself about the Thai political scene himself ,do I smell a slight whiff of total hypocrisy here ??

Hey Colin Big. Your fourth post in five years and you mention me. I am honoured!

Yeah Rix ,keep your fingers crossed you may see more of me from here on in ,I always recognize talent aligned with a bit of dry wit thrown in .

[ableguy]

It is a blanket amnesty, so the army that killed unarmed civillians, the government that ordered the killings or are complicit in the cover up etc will also be included in the amnesty, Abhsitis comment "He should come back and serve his sentence as any Thai would have to." will hopefully come back to haunt him and his cronies in the coming months as charges are rightly laid against them.

What a crock you write.

[rubl]

It is a blanket amnesty, so the army that killed unarmed civillians, the government that ordered the killings or are complicit in the cover up etc will also be included in the amnesty, Abhsitis comment "He should come back and serve his sentence as any Thai would have to." will hopefully come back to haunt him and his cronies in the coming months as charges are rightly laid against them.

What a crock you write.

Now, now, relax.

The interesting part of member random's post is that any odd member here can write 'abhisit murderer', 'government ordered killings', etc., etc. When you start writing about PTP candidates like k. Natthawut, or 'Ms. Yingluck looks pale today', THEN you're really asking for problems. You will get charged with anything up to murder, or someone will write 'wait till PTP/UDD is in power'.

All in good spirit, in the name of democracy, reconciliation and against double standards. Nothing personal, only watch your step

Edited June 10, 2011 by rubl

[samurai]

"I don't believe their (Puea Thai's) plan is one for reconciliation," Abhisit told foreign correspondents in the capital.

A good starter for "reconciliation" is to accept and respect what the majority of people voted for in an election.

[rixalex]

"I don't believe their (Puea Thai's) plan is one for reconciliation," Abhisit told foreign correspondents in the capital.

A good starter for "reconciliation" is to accept and respect what the majority of people voted for in an election.

Try telling that to the reds who have never accepted or respected the majority of people who voted for the current coalition government.

[animatic]

"I don't believe their (Puea Thai's) plan is one for reconciliation," Abhisit told foreign correspondents in the capital.

A good starter for "reconciliation" is to accept and respect what the majority of people voted for in an election.

That's fine IF, and ONLY if you can believe that is the real aims of those the public is voting for.

If it is a sham, a con job, lipservice just gain power, then it is hard to accept that what their game changes to, is what the people actually voted for.

Since there are an amazing number of out right lies being told, which ones should you choose to hold them too?

[animatic]

"I don't believe their (Puea Thai's) plan is one for reconciliation," Abhisit told foreign correspondents in the capital.

A good starter for "reconciliation" is to accept and respect what the majority of people voted for in an election.

Try telling that to the reds who have never accepted or respected the majority of people who voted for the current coalition government.

The majority of people voted as the

66% of Thai voters who did NOT vote for PPP,

(under 35% voted FOR PPP)

and NO voters at all voted for PTP,

except in small by-elections,

only the MP's that were once PPP

were ever voted in to MP status.

A majority of Thai voters DID vote for the MPs

that DID vote in this current government.

Edited June 11, 2011 by animatic

[lannarebirth]

"I don't believe their (Puea Thai's) plan is one for reconciliation," Abhisit told foreign correspondents in the capital.

A good starter for "reconciliation" is to accept and respect what the majority of people voted for in an election.

That's fine IF, and ONLY if you can believe that is the real aims of those the public is voting for.

If it is a sham, a con job, lipservice just gain power, then it is hard to accept that what their game changes to, is what the people actually voted for.

Since there are an amazing number of out right lies being told, which ones should you choose to hold them too?

Too bad we can't link to the Bangkok Post. Lots of good stuff published there lately regarding the election. They seem to have a higher Thai readership than the Nation and Thai person's letters in the Opinion section are iluiminating. Views we don't often get here.

[Buchholz]

"I don't believe their (Puea Thai's) plan is one for reconciliation," Abhisit told foreign correspondents in the capital.

A good starter for "reconciliation" is to accept and respect what the majority of people voted for in an election.

That's fine IF, and ONLY if you can believe that is the real aims of those the public is voting for.

If it is a sham, a con job, lipservice just gain power, then it is hard to accept that what their game changes to, is what the people actually voted for.

Since there are an amazing number of out right lies being told, which ones should you choose to hold them too?

Too bad we can't link to the Bangkok Post. Lots of good stuff published there lately regarding the election. They seem to have a higher Thai readership than the Nation and Thai person's letters in the Opinion section are iluiminating. Views we don't often get here.

If it's about noisy Russians, it's ok to link.

[samurai]

"I don't believe their (Puea Thai's) plan is one for reconciliation," Abhisit told foreign correspondents in the capital.

A good starter for "reconciliation" is to accept and respect what the majority of people voted for in an election.

Try telling that to the reds who have never accepted or respected the majority of people who voted for the current coalition government.

The majority of people voted as the

66% of Thai voters who did NOT vote for PPP,

(under 35% voted FOR PPP)

and NO voters at all voted for PTP,

except in small by-elections,

only the MP's that were once PPP

were ever voted in to MP status.

A majority of Thai voters DID vote for the MPs

that DID vote in this current government.

Silly (non)-logic.

Just two points:

- A "not-vote" for PPP wasn't a pro-vote for an Abhisit government.

- The current coalition government includes parties nobody voted for in 2007.

[whybother]

Silly (non)-logic.

Just two points:

- A "not-vote" for PPP wasn't a pro-vote for an Abhisit government.

- The current coalition government includes parties nobody voted for in 2007.

The current coalition consists of MPs that were all elected, either in 2007 or in by-elections since. But seeing as parliament has been dissolved for an election, it's not really relevant now.

If the PTP form government, that won't necessarily mean that the majority of the people have voted for them. As we've seen in several other threads, many smaller parties will join anyone just to be in government.

What we could see if the PTP form a coalition government, is the smaller parties that got them there jumping ship when the PTP try to push through laws to get Thaksin's crimes whitewashed.

It's not like it hasn't happened before.

Edited June 11, 2011 by whybother

[TAWP]

"I don't believe their (Puea Thai's) plan is one for reconciliation," Abhisit told foreign correspondents in the capital.

A good starter for "reconciliation" is to accept and respect what the majority of people voted for in an election.

Does 'majority' mean something else in your universe?

[whybother]

"I don't believe their (Puea Thai's) plan is one for reconciliation," Abhisit told foreign correspondents in the capital.

A good starter for "reconciliation" is to accept and respect what the majority of people voted for in an election.

Does 'majority' mean something else in your universe?

For samurai, "majority" means "substantial".

[TAWP]

The majority of people voted as the

66% of Thai voters who did NOT vote for PPP,

(under 35% voted FOR PPP)

and NO voters at all voted for PTP,

except in small by-elections,

only the MP's that were once PPP

were ever voted in to MP status.

A majority of Thai voters DID vote for the MPs

that DID vote in this current government.

Silly (non)-logic.

Just two points:

- A "not-vote" for PPP wasn't a pro-vote for an Abhisit government.

- The current coalition government includes parties nobody voted for in 2007.

The current government includes MPs that people voted for.

An MPs is allowed to part with a party and doesn't have to give up his seat. As we have seen in many countries before.

In addition, what Animatic is talking about is votes for any other party than PPP, but still for a party that now is in the (recent) current government is in a majority. I think that even you can write down the numbers and see that.