Briton Drowned In Koh Samui Insist Thai Police, So Murder Investigation Is Off

[PingManDan]

Sounds pretty fishy to me, they've never heard of someone holding another person underwater, of course they'll have water in their lungs and ingest in stomach also. Did this guy have enemies, or part of a mafia on the island, some friends will come forth to keep the investigation going. What are the marks on his back from? The unanswered circumstances seem to warrant keeping the case open, maybe the cops are being paid off, or just plain lazy, I think it's both.

Edited June 14, 2011 by PingManDan

[craigt3365]

One inappropriate post deleted. Please keep it civil and show some respect. :jap:

[somtampet]

Thai Analysis - I read the full story to my Thai wife. She replied with a shrug: "Someone kill him, pay off police"

U could earn loads of money if your missus is a mind reader,she is so good

[somtampet]

Definitely not suicide but murder!

Anyone who get themselves involved in dodgy business in Thailand, could easily end up as a dead corps. This is a calculated risk you have to take. The BIB do as little as possible to solve the such cases, as they are probably too busy doing dodgy business themselves. They could just run a proper investigation on the partner and the employees in the bar. If non of them are directly not behind the kill, one of them will most likely know exactly what happened and why.

If anyone was to commit suicide in Chaweng, they would definitely not choose a dirty lake with only one foot of water, when the Gulf of Thailand is just a hundred meters away!

So you are saying he was involved in dodgy business,thats a new angle mate,have u told the police about this

[softgeorge]

How about the British Embassy do a post morten !!!

Maybe hard, I don't know what happened in this case but thais like to cremate the bodies as quickly as possible in such cases. Happened in Chiangmai (Downtown Inn) case relatives did not have much say in it

[afx]

Bad news for the family -- but this is the way it is here.

I'm surprised at how many people are surprised in this thread. This is 100% normal modus operandi by the police. A few hundred K to the police from gf or business partner or perpetrator to ensure there was no crime.

A death where there is a guilty party is a bumper day for the police and it is simply beneath them to give a <deleted> about a dead anybody (Thai or farang) -- better a dead farang, much bigger pay day; but the Thais as mentioned up the thread get the same treatment.

The police act the way they do because they can -- the downside to opportunistic human nature; when there are zero repercussions and large bumper pay days the Thai police will never change.

There is only one enforced law in Thailand (lese majeste). The rest are simply vessels for extortion.

[animatic]

But unlike the original post mortem conducted in Koh Samui, the second inquest confirmed two 'impact marks' on Mr. Attew's head and five puncture marks on his back, penetrating 3 mm into the skin, and also bruising on his back and neck

are they for real !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! , i have seen the picture of when they found the body, and NO WAY is this drowning !, ok he may of had some water in his lungs but how can you explain all the other injuries ! ..... this is truly shocking

i think there mayof been a lot of lost face here, so instead og admiting they where wrong, the police insist on calling this a suscide !, or are being heavily paid off

could someone link the pic?

It was on page two of the local Samui Express paper this week. But the website is utterly useless on this subject. The headline is there, but text about the regata...DUH!

Edited June 14, 2011 by animatic

[Samuian]

Yo, speculation always grows wild and accusations are quickly fetched - one thing this terrible story tells is that 'drowning' was highly likely the cause of Kevin's death, the next logical question would be: "what caused him 'drowning' in this shallow lake and was he there alone, was it night what would he be doin at this lake at night and alone? - fishing? Well that sounds a wee bit fishy, the locals can stand upright in it, so could Kevin, very weird "suicide - accidentlly drowned while fishing" too many facts point in a rather different direction!

[fazbender]

Everyone seems to think he was knocked out and put in the 300mm of water.

What if this was an altercation between three or four men, they gave him a bit of a beating. Then when he had got up an walked away he was "disorientated" and went in the general direction of the water. After a few moments he was overcome and passed out. Unfortunately he was by or in the water at this point.

Face down he would still be alive and shallow breathing. You wouldn't need too many mouths of water to drowned. You wouldn't make massive attempts to get out of the water either.

The reason I say this is because a few years ago I got into a fight with four guys in Telford! after it was over I got up hadn't a clue where I was and made off in the totally wrong direction. After maybe 20 to 30 seconds felt like I was about to faint! knowing this feeling I stopped and took deep breaths. I needed the oxygen and I need to calm down from the adrenalin rush.

The thing that needs investigating is what happened before. How many people carry a 3mm bladed knife? not many. loads of things could cause them in a fight. Barbed wire being one. This may not be Murder, which seems to be banded round with only the smallest amount information that is given,in the paper, and papers always tell the truth. It "could" be at best manslaughter. That's if it could be investigated properly.

If he was beaten up and dropped in the lake that's murder. But without someone seeing or a confession. Murder would never stick. EVER. There is no proof. Not that we would be allowed to see any anyway. Assumption the mother of all F#*k up's

So consider what the Thai police know, and how they work. The girlfriend said he wanted to kill himself. They know he drowned. End of story. What happened before is not going to be bought into question. As illogical as it seems to us. We know as westerners. That there has to be a series of events that lead up to a suspicious death. We all watch the TV programs.

Fact 1 Fact 2 ok finished. Thats how it works. Combined with a lack of education.

Plus the police only ever seem to catch someone when they've been dobbed in.

I feel really sorry for his family. They are not going to get any closure on this. I do agree with one commentator. Get the body back to the UK and have a full and proper autopsy. Then make what was his local MP bring it up in Parliament. Make a big deal out of it, with the papers.

[animatic]

Definitely not suicide but murder!

Anyone who get themselves involved in dodgy business in Thailand, could easily end up as a dead corps. This is a calculated risk you have to take. The BIB do as little as possible to solve the such cases, as they are probably too busy doing dodgy business themselves. They could just run a proper investigation on the partner and the employees in the bar. If non of them are directly not behind the kill, one of them will most likely know exactly what happened and why.

If anyone was to commit suicide in Chaweng, they would definitely not choose a dirty lake with only one foot of water, when the Gulf of Thailand is just a hundred meters away!

So you are saying he was involved in dodgy business,thats a new angle mate,have u told the police about this

Running a bar with bar girls etc. is by its very nature is dodgy business.

[samjaidee]

of coarse there would be water inside his body if he was knocked out and nearly dead before being thrown into the water.

Maybe he did die from drowning but i am guessing that someone could be unconsious before being thrown into the lake which is why he could not climb out.

if he did die offically from drowning what happened before he fell into the lake or was thrown into the lake.

just to be fair with the story to move out any question that he hit his head or back on the way down. was there anything sharp that he could have fallen on on the way down.

Just being nutural. Is it possible the marks on his body could have been on the fall on the way down. or are the marks from the angles and the type of marks impossible to be from an accident.

if he had puncher wholes on his back then sounds like he could have been stabbed from behinde.

If stabbed from behinde then i do not think that it was a scrap between mates,

seems like a proffessional hit as the person who would have done it would not want to show his or her face.

in a scenario. for example if someone wanted to kill someone in the lake in the dark. then someone who does not reckonise could get up close stab him in the back then push him in the water to wipe away evidence,

not saying that is what happeneed because i do not know but in thriory someone could do this

I guess from this well written analysis you must be a forensic scientist or perhaps an English teacher!!

I appreciate that your reply was sarcastic but that's still no excuse for insulting English teachers.

I am a fully qualified professional English teacher and was shocked by the quality of English in his post just as you were. I can only assume that the poster is not a native English speaker otherwise there is absolutely no excuse for such atrocious grammar and spelling.

[animatic]

3mm = boxcutter on 1st click open.

Which is enough to slash a jugular vien etc.

But nothing said it was 'blade punctures',

it could be sheet metal, broken stick ends,

rocks edges or something else he fell on.

And none of this disproves foul play by humans.

If he was beaten as badly as 'someone described above', if he then was disoriented enough to fall in the lake and drown, the beating caused it and it is STILL murder. Inadvertent possibly, but still murder.

Edited June 14, 2011 by animatic

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I think most expats in Thailand know that mysterious deaths are part of the risks of living in Thailand, on a par with road accidents, malaria, dengue etc. Integrating with the local community is not a protection, Thais are probably more at risk than expats, it is simply that expats have a higher profile in the media.

Farangs from every country should form a Non Profit Activist Group in order to have a voice. They all are far away from homes and it is about time to reunite and stand tall. Farang Members can demand their Right and protection from the Thai government beside the Embassy. At the same time, they can extend their hands to the Thai citizens who are in trouble. Then the relationship between Farangs and Thais are better. It is a good thing. My take and opinion.

To the extent such an organization were actually effective, its founders/leaders would be putting their lives in danger.

If you want to be quite sure of living safely in Thailand, follow these simple rules:

Either A. be wealthy and powerful within the local political/economic structures, or

B. As a guest here, keep a very low profile. The remainder pertains to this latter strategy.

Live in an area that doesn't have a lot of foreigners, and avoid interacting with lower-class Thais that speak English. This of course means that you should learn Thai, which will bring many other side benefits.

Making money - do not try to compete with dangerous locals - or at least don't do it effectively.

Ideally, spend only money from outside the country.

Working as a teacher, no problem, same as being an employee for a legitimate locally-owned or multi-national company - the larger the better. Complying with all the relevant laws is a given.

Going into business (which requires partnering with locals) and losing all your money and not making a fuss about it is of course OK.

If you actually want to try to make a living here as an entrepreneur, no matter what the location or the industry, if you are successful you risk extra-legal consequences from your competitors, and you won't have any effective recourse (unless you fit into category A above, and we're not talking about legal recourse but effective recourse).

Obviously attempting to compete in industries that cater to foreigners, particularly vice industries - bars, girls, drugs etc raises the risk astronomically. Even simply associating with people, being a regular customer in these environments raises your risks. Bottom line if your goal is to be as safe as possible here: don't associate yourself in any way with drugs. Don't drink alcohol to excess, best to keep out of the bar scene completely.

In relation to girls, play by Thai rules, don't mess with the wrong people's wives or daughters, be sincere and honest and be willing to pay out your money one way or another - not only in relation to the value received, but willing to be scammed on occasion, take it with a smile and move on with lessons to apply next time elsewhere.

Bottom line - accept reality as it is and go with the flow. Trying to change such fundamental truths is just beating your head against a wall.

Home for me is the US, and I know if I want to live there safely I need to follow similar rules, and in fact I feel much safer here following them than I do back there in any large city. And foreign visitors and recent immigrants would be in great physical danger if they were to try to engage in the sort of behavior I see with many expats here. And if they were to end up dead under suspicious circumstances perhaps the police wouldn't try to claim it as accident, but they sure wouldn't invest a lot of scarce resources into trying to solve the crime.

If anyone thinks the above is unreasonable, then "you pays your money and you takes your choice".

[somtampet]

of coarse there would be water inside his body if he was knocked out and nearly dead before being thrown into the water.

Maybe he did die from drowning but i am guessing that someone could be unconsious before being thrown into the lake which is why he could not climb out.

if he did die offically from drowning what happened before he fell into the lake or was thrown into the lake.

just to be fair with the story to move out any question that he hit his head or back on the way down. was there anything sharp that he could have fallen on on the way down.

Just being nutural. Is it possible the marks on his body could have been on the fall on the way down. or are the marks from the angles and the type of marks impossible to be from an accident.

if he had puncher wholes on his back then sounds like he could have been stabbed from behinde.

If stabbed from behinde then i do not think that it was a scrap between mates,

seems like a proffessional hit as the person who would have done it would not want to show his or her face.

in a scenario. for example if someone wanted to kill someone in the lake in the dark. then someone who does not reckonise could get up close stab him in the back then push him in the water to wipe away evidence,

not saying that is what happeneed because i do not know but in thriory someone could do this

I guess from this well written analysis you must be a forensic scientist or perhaps an English teacher!!

I appreciate that your reply was sarcastic but that's still no excuse for insulting English teachers.

I am a fully qualified professional English teacher and was shocked by the quality of English in his post just as you were. I can only assume that the poster is not a native English speaker otherwise there is absolutely no excuse for such atrocious grammar and spelling.

Have you thought he might have an illness,no need to be judgemental on someone who isnt as cleverer like wat u are

[swillowbee]

... Thais are a people with no shame ("shame" being internally motivated, as opposed to "face", which is externally motivated).

... Thais are culturally incapable of rising to the same standards of behavior most of the world's modern, enlightened cultures aspire.

... the burden for justice in Thailand really falls on the shoulders of the foreign diplomatic missions ... shame of them, too, for failing to protect their citizens ... letting murders as this pass unsolved and uninvestigated just makes future murders of foreigners all the more likely.

... foreigners are sitting ducks here, and Thais now know it.

(... an afterthought: I wonder how the British Embassy would respond if friends of this poor guy were to organize a protest in front of the Embassy ... it would be unique enough to win press coverage)

Edited June 14, 2011 by swillowbee

[Devil0in0Krung0Thep]

http://www.andrew-drummond.com/view-story.php?sid=412

Doesn't take much research to see the people he was involved in.

Photo clearly shows his wearing Bandido's colours, not only that but he is pictured alongside the club Secretary who was arrested in Koh Samui in 2006 for money laundering and extortion.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/76183-samui-bandidos

It may also be interesting to know that the same gang was also arrested in 2002

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/76140-100-dsi-police-officers-raid-koh-samui-arrest-briton/

Maybe things become a little bit clearer now.

All the same, my condolences to the family.

[dob310870]

the second inquest confirmed two ‘impact marks’ on Mr. Attew’s head and five puncture marks on his back, penetrating 3 mm into the skin, and also bruising on his back and neck

I guess he did drown ............ after being beat unconcous and left for dead.

Kudos to the Police for their excellent detective work in a difficult case!

3mm is very shallow for puncture wounds to cause much damage; I wonder how wide they were. Where were the impact marks found on his head? There seems to be so many questions that are not being asked. Even I am wondering from so far away and with no personal connection to this gentleman. What was his blood alcohol level? Did they find any unusual drugs in his system? Could he have been drugged a lured away? Did he have any money or valuables on him? Why does his girlfriend, Aeae Sumpootong, look as though she may have been another person at birth? (trying to be delicate in case my instinct is wrong. I can't help but notice the bone structure of the shoulders, square jaw, the length of the of the arms and hand size)

Wow, this seems to be very dodgy.

[andrewdrummond]

the second inquest confirmed two 'impact marks' on Mr. Attew's head and five puncture marks on his back, penetrating 3 mm into the skin, and also bruising on his back and neck

I guess he did drown ............ after being beat unconcous and left for dead.

Kudos to the Police for their excellent detective work in a difficult case!

3mm is very shallow for puncture wounds to cause much damage; I wonder how wide they were. Where were the impact marks found on his head? There seems to be so many questions that are not being asked. Even I am wondering from so far away and with no personal connection to this gentleman. What was his blood alcohol level? Did they find any unusual drugs in his system? Could he have been drugged a lured away? Did he have any money or valuables on him? Why does his girlfriend, Aeae Sumpootong, look as though she may have been another person at birth? (trying to be delicate in case my instinct is wrong. I can't help but notice the bone structure of the shoulders, square jaw, the length of the of the arms and hand size)

Wow, this seems to be very dodgy.

If its of any help I have now posted the post mortem on the original link in the first post

[WarpSpeed]

Shocking, but to be expected

Unfortunately not shocking and still to be expected ...

[FOODLOVER]

of coarse there would be water inside his body if he was knocked out and nearly dead before being thrown into the water.

Maybe he did die from drowning but i am guessing that someone could be unconsious before being thrown into the lake which is why he could not climb out.

if he did die offically from drowning what happened before he fell into the lake or was thrown into the lake.

just to be fair with the story to move out any question that he hit his head or back on the way down. was there anything sharp that he could have fallen on on the way down.

Just being nutural. Is it possible the marks on his body could have been on the fall on the way down. or are the marks from the angles and the type of marks impossible to be from an accident.

if he had puncher wholes on his back then sounds like he could have been stabbed from behinde.

If stabbed from behinde then i do not think that it was a scrap between mates,

seems like a proffessional hit as the person who would have done it would not want to show his or her face.

in a scenario. for example if someone wanted to kill someone in the lake in the dark. then someone who does not reckonise could get up close stab him in the back then push him in the water to wipe away evidence,

not saying that is what happeneed because i do not know but in thriory someone could do this

I guess from this well written analysis you must be a forensic scientist or perhaps an English teacher!!

I appreciate that your reply was sarcastic but that's still no excuse for insulting English teachers.

I am a fully qualified professional English teacher and was shocked by the quality of English in his post just as you were. I can only assume that the poster is not a native English speaker otherwise there is absolutely no excuse for such atrocious grammar and spelling.

wuz that sarkasm!

[ozzieovaseas]

of coarse there would be water inside his body if he was knocked out and nearly dead before being thrown into the water.

Maybe he did die from drowning but i am guessing that someone could be unconsious before being thrown into the lake which is why he could not climb out.

if he did die offically from drowning what happened before he fell into the lake or was thrown into the lake.

just to be fair with the story to move out any question that he hit his head or back on the way down. was there anything sharp that he could have fallen on on the way down.

Just being nutural. Is it possible the marks on his body could have been on the fall on the way down. or are the marks from the angles and the type of marks impossible to be from an accident.

if he had puncher wholes on his back then sounds like he could have been stabbed from behinde.

If stabbed from behinde then i do not think that it was a scrap between mates,

seems like a proffessional hit as the person who would have done it would not want to show his or her face.

in a scenario. for example if someone wanted to kill someone in the lake in the dark. then someone who does not reckonise could get up close stab him in the back then push him in the water to wipe away evidence,

not saying that is what happeneed because i do not know but in thriory someone could do this

I guess from this well written analysis you must be a forensic scientist or perhaps an English teacher!!

Yes, the makings of a true COLUMBO there.

Sad for the guys family though, it must be terrible thing especially when any sort of true justice or accountability would seem improbable if not impossible. It just comes to show that its just to big a risk for any farang to have small business interest in a community like Samui. And if the business is succesful you have the jealousy of any number of unscrupulous competitors.

Edited June 14, 2011 by ozzieovaseas

[maxman71]

This will do wonders for tourism. But that is entirely secondary. This guy's family is getting the Supreme Shaft. Time reconsider being based here in the LOS and Shoddy Police Work. Hong Kong is looking better and better with each passing day.

[OzMick]

of coarse there would be water inside his body if he was knocked out and nearly dead before being thrown into the water.

Maybe he did die from drowning but i am guessing that someone could be unconsious before being thrown into the lake which is why he could not climb out.

if he did die offically from drowning what happened before he fell into the lake or was thrown into the lake.

just to be fair with the story to move out any question that he hit his head or back on the way down. was there anything sharp that he could have fallen on on the way down.

Just being nutural. Is it possible the marks on his body could have been on the fall on the way down. or are the marks from the angles and the type of marks impossible to be from an accident.

if he had puncher wholes on his back then sounds like he could have been stabbed from behinde.

If stabbed from behinde then i do not think that it was a scrap between mates,

seems like a proffessional hit as the person who would have done it would not want to show his or her face.

in a scenario. for example if someone wanted to kill someone in the lake in the dark. then someone who does not reckonise could get up close stab him in the back then push him in the water to wipe away evidence,

not saying that is what happeneed because i do not know but in thriory someone could do this

Ummm, ............3 mm deep stab wounds, 1/8th of an inch. Done with a knife with a 3mm blade? And why does a professional hit-man care if his victim sees his face, who is he going to tell?

[gemini81]

about as believable as the guesses they made at the causes of death involving foreigners in chiang mai.

They say hell in asia would be: the koreans are the chefs, the chinese are the business owners, and the thais are the police, the burmese are the gov't. maybe that wasn't a joke I heard!

[normac44]

I think most expats in Thailand know that mysterious deaths are part of the risks of living in Thailand, on a par with road accidents, malaria, dengue etc. Integrating with the local community is not a protection, Thais are probably more at risk than expats, it is simply that expats have a higher profile in the media.

Farangs from every country should form a Non Profit Activist Group in order to have a voice. They all are far away from homes and it is about time to reunite and stand tall. Farang Members can demand their Right and protection from the Thai government beside the Embassy. At the same time, they can extend their hands to the Thai citizens who are in trouble. Then the relationship between Farangs and Thais are better. It is a good thing. My take and opinion.

Yeah, and maybe we can pay the same price to enter state parks and cheap bus fares etc...dream on

[ozzieovaseas]

I can't see how all this speculation about his links to the Banditos is going to help anything. So he was pictured the Crispin fellow, so what? is he guilty by association and as such shouldnt receive justice? Maybe all they had in common was an interest in bikes?

It is not known if he was involved in any of that business back in 2006, so why muddy the waters??

It would be interesting to know when the picture was taken with him and the Crispin character. And what another great badge of honour for the BiB..if this Crispin guy was so shady, how is it he is allowed back in the kingdom after being convicted of all those offences?

[Mooner]

Like one poster said! Things like this will only ensue that Thailand keeps going backwards while it's neighbours push forward.

[hoaker]

My condolences go out to the family. This investigation has come not to a surprise on the effort of the police in honoring the rights of the people.

This is Thailand. Be Cautious at all times......

[LordPoona]

nothing to see here...move along

[diehard60]

I hope she never gives up until the REAL truth is found out. KEEP ON GOING DON"T STOP