Briton Drowned In Koh Samui Insist Thai Police, So Murder Investigation Is Off

[Rumpole]

... why hell, this won't even merit a blip on the tourism radar ... please! ... BRITISH TOURISTS ARE NOT INFORMED OF WHAT GOES ON HERE!

... a concerted effort by the British government is necessary to inform British citizens of what can befall their citizens in Thailand.

The UK's Independent newspaper asked why this was not already being done back in 2008:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/with-so-many-britons-murdered-in-thailand-why-does-our-government-not-warn-of-the-dangers-faced-there-769640.html

These statistics:

http://www.fco.gov.uk/resources/en/pdf/travel-living-abroad/21151574/british-behaviour-abroad-09-10

also give pause for thought, particularly when the much lower number of visitors to Thailand in comparison to the other four countries at the head of the table is taken into consideration.

Name me one

The Philippines, Cambodia, Vietnam, much of Africa, much of South America... The list goes on and on.

Not according to the official statistics published in the link above. British citizens, at least, are at far more risk of dying or requiring consular assistance in Thailand than any of the places you mention. They do not even appear on the FCO's radar.

Edited June 14, 2011 by Rumpole

[rayw]

Surely this is easily resolved by inviting over the British Coroners office to do an independent post mortem to see what they feel was the true cause of death. Sure ultimately probably was drowning but they would examine marks on the body to establish how long before death those wounds were inflicted as that IS important and required information surely for any sane sensible person and would ensure that the Thais do not lose face by failing to cooperate with reasonable and sensible practices. If they too concur with the Thai coroners then his sister should accept that as we all should. However, if not the same conclusion (as I suspect would happen) then a murder investigation MUST follow again seeing that it is a Brit who was killed then maybe Brit CID police should also be involved too to work with the Thai police. I have seen this done on UK fiction series about coroners and police and assume it is based on fact so assume this sort of thing does happen where there is cause for concern at a Brits death abroad, as there seems to be in this case. If the Thai police/coroners refuse to cooperate then it becomes a serious diplomatic situation where the Btit Government formally complain to the Thai Government and the Thais lose face big time looking silly and/or corrupt to the world.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[barrybike]

this is a clear case of murder as far as i can see it ...what are those idiot police thinking ..this should be highlighted in a bbc or itv programme back in briton or something ..i hope his family get the proper conclusion to this ..rip kevin

[Ulysses G.]

Not according to the official statistics published in the link above.

There are plenty of statistics that place some of these places amongst the most dangerous countries in the world for tourists. I can not find any that say Thailand is in that category.

http://www.traveltowork.net/2009/04/list-of-10-most-dangerous-countries-for-tourists/

[barrybike]

as for the guy saying its clear to see now just because he was associated with the bandidos....what a load of bull ....those bikers do more charity work etc for their local communities than anyone...ive met these guys and bikers all over thailand and just because they love harleys tattoos and leather dosent make them criminal .....they are some of the nicest friendly guys u could meet ...did u ever hear of the old saying 'dont judge a book by its cover' .... its the guys in white collar suits who i worry about ...rip kevin

[james24]

Not according to the official statistics published in the link above.

There are plenty of statistics that place some of these places amongst the most dangerous countries in the world for tourists. I can not find any that say Thailand is in that category.

http://www.traveltow...s-for-tourists/

Some are more credible than others though

[Rumpole]

Not according to the official statistics published in the link above.

There are plenty of statistics that place some of these places amongst the most dangerous countries in the world for tourists. I can not find any that say Thailand is in that category.

http://www.traveltowork.net/2009/04/list-of-10-most-dangerous-countries-for-tourists/

DEATHS

The facts

− There were 5,930 reported deaths of UK citizens abroad including natural causes, accidental deaths, unlawful killings and suicides

− There were 1,786 British deaths in Spain, 563 in Germany, 527 in France, 323 deaths in Cyprus and 292 in Thailand

− Proportionally, most Brits died in Thailand (292), followed by Germany (563) and Cyprus (323)

I cannot now find a link but I recall that when the figures for 2008-2009 were published, it was stated that Thailand accounted for 10% of all murders of British citizens overseas, despite being the recipient of only 0.6% of outbound tourism from the UK. Doubtless this figure would be even higher if deaths of foreigners were actually investigated in Thailand. It would be interesting to see similar statistics for nationals of the US and Australia, for example. Contrast this with the couple of handfuls of deaths over the last 5 or 6 years of any foreigners in, say, Cambodia (where the police are just as useless, if perhaps not quite so venal or downright criminal as their Thai counterparts), despite the obvious disparity in visitor numbers and foreign residents.

I am not suggesting that Thailand is necessarily an inherently dangerous place for foreigners. Generally, it is not and without doubt there are far worse places on the planet; however, how many of the posters on this board would seek to live in most of those places? Large numbers of Westerners do not visit or attempt to establish long-term residence in places like Nicaragua or Burkina Faso. This is a Thailand-centric discussion board, and to simply shrug and say that incidents such as the topic of this thread can occur anywhere and further imply that there are not some serious issues and concerns which need to be addressed, is simply a denial of the reality.

Edited June 14, 2011 by Rumpole

[Nisa]

Not sure why some people are pushing to have this called a murder. If it was a murder and the police and other officials are so determined not to have it be listed as a murder ... what kind of murder investigation do they think will come of this? Even if they win in terms in getting it listed as a murder .. will they then push hard for an arrest? The result would almost certainly be the arrest of one of his farang friends ... if there is something dishonest going on it is because they are protecting somebody and that is not going to change by outside farang pressure.

[notime]

I didn't know Kevin, his GF or his friends. But I'm quite shocked about what happened and the apparent cover-up. I think I know Samui and Thailand reasonably well after spending 5 years running business here. You can call me a psychologist or psychic if you like but here is my reasoning: Kevin's friends say he was arguing with his GF and never hit her. I think there is only one reason for couples to argue that is - not enough love. The fact he couldn't hit her indicates to me he loved her. So the lack of love must have been on the other side. That explains arguing and what happened next.

I have recently came across an enlightening thought that came out of the mind of a Thai guy who seemed to be nice and helpful to me for years and one day declared that he had no choice but to kill me if I didn't give him substantial amount of money. He explained that the time has come "to kill the bull". He meant farmers must kill their animals even that they don't really enjoy doing so. That made me understand how many Thais see foreigners here, through their "farmer's mentality" - we are their animals. We are being milked from our money every day and when the time comes we go to slaughter.

So just maybe, I know this is speculation but not without a reasonable base, the time has come that poor Kevin was ripe to be "harvested". Now, I'm thinking about the "farmer's mentality" more in my own approach to doing things here. The way the things are going for me recently make me actually quite worried that my body may be found in the lake or some other place next. And I hope many of you who may be bulls or cows on someone's paddock will start to understand this angle now and take precautions. God bless and RIP Kevin.

[Nisa]

Anybody have any links to this story from actual newspapers?

Edited June 14, 2011 by Nisa

[Nisa]

Not according to the official statistics published in the link above.

There are plenty of statistics that place some of these places amongst the most dangerous countries in the world for tourists. I can not find any that say Thailand is in that category.

http://www.traveltow...s-for-tourists/

DEATHS

The facts

− There were 5,930 reported deaths of UK citizens abroad including natural causes, accidental deaths, unlawful killings and suicides

− There were 1,786 British deaths in Spain, 563 in Germany, 527 in France, 323 deaths in Cyprus and 292 in Thailand

− Proportionally, most Brits died in Thailand (292), followed by Germany (563) and Cyprus (323)

I cannot now find a link but I recall that when the figures for 2008-2009 were published, it was stated that Thailand accounted for 10% of all murders of British citizens overseas,

If I recall there was a report about Thailand being the #1 place for UK tourists to die but I also believe it indicated the majority of these deaths were due to drunk Britts on motorbikes not wearing helmets.

Edited June 14, 2011 by Nisa

[Rumpole]

If I recall there was a report about Thailand being the #1 place for UK tourists to die but I also believe it indicated the majority of these deaths were due to drunk Britts on motorbikes not wearing helmets.

Proportionally, the number one place to die, yes, but 10% of all murders (not deaths overall) overseas also puts Thailand high in the league-tables for unlawful killings. And how many of the reported 'suicides' and 'deaths from natural causes' might actually be attributable to nefarious intent, if competent and impartial investigations were conducted?

[peergin]

It is time for our embassies to inform the police in our home countries to return the favour in cases where victims are Thais: don't investigate anything; just call it suicide or accidental.

[katana]

Anybody have any links to this story from actual newspapers?

http://www.isnhotnews.com/2011/05/%E0%B8%AB%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%B8%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%8A%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%A4%E0%B8%A9%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%95%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%AD%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%B2/

[JurgenG]

as for the guy saying its clear to see now just because he was associated with the bandidos....what a load of bull ....those bikers do more charity work etc for their local communities than anyone...ive met these guys and bikers all over thailand and just because they love harleys tattoos and leather dosent make them criminal .....they are some of the nicest friendly guys u could meet ...did u ever hear of the old saying 'dont judge a book by its cover' .... its the guys in white collar suits who i worry about ...rip kevin

In some places, like Hong Kong, just claiming to be a member of a criminal organization can land you in jail.

I don't understand the point to claim to be associated with a well known criminal association if you just intend to do some charity work. At the minimum, it's just poor judgement.

[techboy]

Shocking, but to be expected

Hey tough guy. I would bet that if you ran into a little bit of nasty stuff you would be crying into you skirt. :jap:

[regfrancis]

Yes right.. Credibility of the police and legal system is important to the Thai economy.

Case in example: Carrefour said they were selling outlets in Thailand Singapore and Malaysia.As it turned out -that was to soften the blow that they were only selling Thailand outlets. That's the worlds second biggest retaler giving it the thumbs down???

On the positive side-- the Thais in general have a friendly and gracious nature (compared to some nationalities) with tourists--this is what will always pull them through

Edited June 14, 2011 by regfrancis

[khunsiam]

To be expected from "police" who often buy their way onto the force and have no actual real police training. Also to be expected from police who often moonlight as hitmen.

Indeed, years ago Samui locals told me Samui policemen were moonlighting as hitmen.

[khunsiam]

But unlike the original post mortem conducted in Koh Samui, the second inquest confirmed two 'impact marks' on Mr. Attew's head and five puncture marks on his back, penetrating 3 mm into the skin, and also bruising on his back and neck

are they for real !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! , i have seen the picture of when they found the body, and NO WAY is this drowning !, ok he may of had some water in his lungs but how can you explain all the other injuries ! ..... this is truly shocking

i think there mayof been a lot of lost face here, so instead og admiting they where wrong, the police insist on calling this a suscide !, or are being heavily paid off

It is sad to see yet another so called suicide and the truth once again covered over.

The amazing thing is do the powers that be actually think anyone could somehow stab themselves in the back without a weapon of some description causing injury, quickly followed by hitting themselves twice in the head with enough force to render themselves unconscious.

Not the easiest way to commit suicide by drowning.

Kevin's girlfriend is upset no one believes her I wonder why.

Very sadly for the family and friends I fear the truth with never come out.

I sincerely hope it does.

The girlfriend is in danger, if she speaks out.

[FOODLOVER]

"The girlfriend is in danger, if she speaks out."

Here is a phone number she can call

+66 (0) 2 305 8333 - Main Embassy line

She could also ask the embassy for witness protection as this regards a citizen of the UK and the ongoing homicide investigation. Anonymous tip is another alternative.

Edited June 15, 2011 by FOODLOVER

[Ulysses G.]

This is a Thailand-centric discussion board, and to simply shrug and say that incidents such as the topic of this thread can occur anywhere and further imply that there are not some serious issues and concerns which need to be addressed, is simply a denial of the reality.

If you recall, I was addressing the idiotic assertion that there were no countries that were "more dishonest" than Thailand <snip>.

Of course there are issues, but Thailand is nowhere close to being worse than every other country.

Edited June 15, 2011 by soundman

[random]

"The girlfriend is in danger, if she speaks out."

Here is a phone number she can call

+66 (0) 2 305 8333 - Main Embassy line

She could also ask the embassy for witness protection as this regards a citizen of the UK and the ongoing homicide investigation. Anonymous tip is another alternative.

Yeah good luck with that one

[SlyAnimal]

imo should definitely put a "Justice Clause" in your will for incase you get murdered etc over here, whereby you could perhaps set aside a large portion of cash to bribe the police to actually do their job lol (Or to find someone else who can do it for them).

As it seems all too common to see cases just like this one, where it seems obvious that there's definitely something fishy going on, but that powerful people are being protected. As farang, we have the resources (upon our death at least anyway lol), to ensure that justice is done. And if people realise that it's not only going to get more media attention by doing harm to a farang, but that they also have a counterbribe to contend with, then perhaps they might be less willing to go toe to toe with us.

Anywho, just my 2c :-P

[eezergood]

Rather loose another life than "face"!

[Beetlejuice]

There are too many possibilities here.

I guess we will never know the true facts.

[Nisa]

Anybody have any links to this story from actual newspapers?

http://www.isnhotnew...B9%88%E0%B8%B2/

Not sure of all the details in this news report (its in Thai) but it seems to be from the initial report (May 25th) and as I read it, there were liquor bottles strewn about where they think he fell from and I believe it indicates he was wearing a backpack.

The story here in the OP seems very one sided. It would be nice to hear the other side including what if any alcohol content was in his blood.

[random]

If I recall there was a report about Thailand being the #1 place for UK tourists to die but I also believe it indicated the majority of these deaths were due to drunk Britts on motorbikes not wearing helmets.

Find this report and link to it, I think you will find it just says motorcycle accidents with no mention of being drunk, I would suggest the 'drunk' part comes from your own bias.

[JurgenG]

If I recall there was a report about Thailand being the #1 place for UK tourists to die but I also believe it indicated the majority of these deaths were due to drunk Britts on motorbikes not wearing helmets.

Find this report and link to it, I think you will find it just says motorcycle accidents with no mention of being drunk, I would suggest the 'drunk' part comes from your own bias.

From Wikileaks :

The leading causes of death (American in Pattaya) are traffic accidents (usually involving alcohol), drug overdoses (ranging from laced cocaine to using Viagra without a prescription), suicides (from heartbroken loners) and homicides.

Pattaya is generally safe for tourists, and that all of the police elements are sincere in keeping things orderly. The one exception to this, however, is a big one: staying away from the \'dark businesses.\' This reference to Pattaya\'s infamous nightlife centers around prostitution, which inevitably attracts drugs, extortion, the mafia, and possibly trafficking in persons.

I don't think Samui is that different from Pattaya. The message is clear : stay on the right side of the law, don't abuse alcohol and drugs, and you will enjoy your stay in Thailand.

[Boater]

But unlike the original post mortem conducted in Koh Samui, the second inquest confirmed two 'impact marks' on Mr. Attew's head and five puncture marks on his back, penetrating 3 mm into the skin, and also bruising on his back and neck

are they for real !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! , i have seen the picture of when they found the body, and NO WAY is this drowning !, ok he may of had some water in his lungs but how can you explain all the other injuries ! ..... this is truly shocking

i think there mayof been a lot of lost face here, so instead og admiting they where wrong, the police insist on calling this a suscide !, or are being heavily paid off

It is sad to see yet another so called suicide and the truth once again covered over.

The amazing thing is do the powers that be actually think anyone could somehow stab themselves in the back without a weapon of some description causing injury, quickly followed by hitting themselves twice in the head with enough force to render themselves unconscious.

Not the easiest way to commit suicide by drowning.

Kevin's girlfriend is upset no one believes her I wonder why.

Very sadly for the family and friends I fear the truth with never come out.

I sincerely hope it does.

The girlfriend is in danger, if she speaks out.

can you elaborate on this ?, so you know his GF, and you know she knows something else about the death, but if she speaks out or to the police she could put her self in danager???