Long Term Entry Permit Expiry Date

[gav123]

Hi, quick question. On looking at a previous post (topic no. 2857 from 2 years ago) Indo-Siam says that an approved long term entry permit expires 1 year from the date of the original visa that got you into Thailand.

Can I just clarify that you mean visa, not entry stamp? For example, if my 1 year multiple entry non-immigrant B visa expires on 16/12/05, but my last entry stamp is November 13, 2005 (assuming I go to Singapore next month and come back with another 90 days), does that mean my approved long term entry permit (my work permit application has just been started) would expire on November 13, 2006?

Thanks a lot for your help.

[sbk]

No, believe that is the "use by" date. ie you must have started using the visa by that date or it expires.

lopburi, do you think I am understanding his question right here?

[lopburi3]

A one year extension of stay ends one day before the current entry into Thailand prior to application for the extension of stay. The date on visa is no longer an issue after you arrive in Thailand.

You enter Nov 13, 2005. Apply for extension of stay Jan xx, 2006. Receive extension sometime later until Nov 12, 2006.

But your work permit will only be valid until your current permitted to stay stamp so you may have to go through several before you get the long permitted to stay stamp and then apply for a new work permit to match it.

[Indo-Siam]

Well, since my company name was in the title, I will take responsibilty for answering - although I will basically duplicate lopburi3.

An inital long-term entry permit extension will expire the day prior to the one-year anniversary of the date you entered Thailand, to START the 90-day entry permit that you subsequently extended.

Forget the visa - it is absolutely meaningless once you are inside Thailand. Only entry permit issue and expiration dates matter.

Also - if, during your long-term extension, you depart Thailand, and you fail to obtain a re-entry permit, your extended entry permit is automatically cancelled. If you reenter without a valid non-immigrant visa, you just get a 30 day "entry on arrival". If you still have a valid non-immigrant visa, you get a 90 day entry permit upon entering.

Good luck!

Steve Sykes

Managing Director

Indo-Siam Group

Bangkok

[email protected]

www.thaistartup.com

[Guest endure]

I have a similar but different question. Say I enter Thailand on a 1 year multiple entry non-imm 'O' visa and make a border run every 90 days. If, during the last 3 months validity of the visa I apply for & get a pensioner's 1 year extension does the extension start from the date I originally entered Thailand or from the date of my last entry into Thailand?

[Indo-Siam]

I say again:

An inital long-term entry permit extension will expire the day prior to the one-year anniversary of the date you entered Thailand, to START the 90-day entry permit that you subsequently extended.

Please read that a few times. It is a 90-day entry permit that ultimately gets extended out to one year. So - the start date of that 90-day entry permit starts the one-year clock. Anything that happened - no matter what - prior to the 90 day entry pemit that gets extended - is irrelevant, in determining expiration date of an initial extended entry permit.

I can't wait to see how the next person finds another way to ask this same question - and then sit there in suspense, wondering what the answer will be THIS time .........

Cheers!

Steve

Indo-Siam

[Guest endure]

Thanks. I understand now.

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Steve of Indo Siam,

You haven't had to wait too long......

I suggest you read Endures contrived but clever question a few times.

The answer to his SPECIFIC and HYPOTHETICAL question is he will initally get approx 2-3 months from the last "admitted until" date in his passport.

In the circumstance he describes he wil not immediately get a full one year extension.

[lopburi3]

No extension given inside Thailand is one year but the Endure extension will end the day before his last entry into Thailand - the visa being single or multi has no bearing on that. So if he applies after being here about 60 days he will immediately get a stamp allowing him to stay about nine more months. It matters not how many time he may have used that visa prior to his application for extension of stay - only that last entry date is considered.

[Firefan]

I seem to recall my lawyer saying that I could only apply for the extension (am currently here on 3 month multiple entry non-em B visa) based on investment in condo above 3M Baht, in the LAST month of my current (3 month) extension?

I.e. if I (or poster above?) leave and come back with-in the VISA validity period - thereby obtaining another 90 days "admitted to" stamp - will I then have to wait until the last month of those 90 days to apply for the 1 year extension based on investment in the Kingdom?

Cheers!

[lopburi3]

The normal requirement is that you be within the last 30 days of a 90 day entry when you make an extension request. It makes no difference how many times you may have been here before or even if you current visa is still valid - what is important is that you have a permitted to stay stamp with a few days remaining.

So yes, if they treat investment as a normal extension you would have to wait 2 months. But I suspect they may not as this is a special category. But anything on investment I strongly urge personal contact with immigration to make sure of every point.

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Sorry Lopburi 3, but I ask you to read Endures post again. He refers to the last 3 months validity of the visa.

As I previously stated it is a contrived question, confirmed by his sardonic reply.

However in the circumstances he describes he would receive approx 3 months beyond last "admitted until" date which could in fact give him up to 15 months from his first entry date. So in fact of the two optional answers he gives neither is correct.

To put it in simple terms. 21 days before the first anniversary of his entry into Thailand he asks for extension based on retirement. From your and Indo-siams answer he would be given 21 days extension. Not the case.

[Guest endure]

Sorry Lopburi 3, but I ask you to read Endures post again. He refers to the last 3 months validity of the visa.

As I previously stated it is a contrived question, confirmed by his sardonic reply.

However in the circumstances he describes he would receive approx 3 months beyond last "admitted until" date which could in fact give him up to 15 months from his first entry date. So in fact of the two optional answers he gives neither is correct.

To put it in simple terms. 21 days before the first anniversary of his entry into Thailand he asks for extension based on retirement. From your and Indo-siams answer he would be given 21 days extension. Not the case.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not a contrived question at all - it's a simple enquiry. My reply wasn't sardonic, it was factual.

Having said that I thought that I understood the answer but am now having doubts.

I intend to to retire to Thailand next year. I know that I have to get a non-imm 'o' and then apply for an extension. If I get a single 90 day non imm 'o' and apply 30 days before it ends I will get an extension of approximately 9 months which will end the day before I originally entered Thailand on the non imm 'o'. The question I want an answer to is this: If I get a multiple 1 year non imm 'o' and apply for the extension 30 days before the end of the last (4th) 90 day entry will the extension end one day before I ORIGINALLY entered Thailand or will it end one day before the date I entered Thailand on the 4TH entry? Put another way - for extension purposes will my date of entry be DAY 1 or DAY 270?

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Endure,

My sincere apologies. Many questions posed on this site appear to be contrived to test the abilities or those responding. Good. Makes for enjoyable reading and interesting debate.

You specifically ask about an extension obtained during the 4th 90 period. Very unusual I suggest. In fact if you give reason for the visa as retirement I think you will only get a single entry.

You could strike lucky and get an extension which I now believe would be for one year starting on day 270. Although I doubt if you will get it without return visits to Imm.

The more I think about it the more convinced I am that you will be told to exit the country, obtain a new single 90 day O visa and then extend to one year. I have no factual or anecdotal evidence to suport this - just a gut feeling.

I retract my comment about 3 months as it relates to my circumstances which are entirely different although it is a possible scenario.

If as in your scenario you apply on day 330 or after you will not be given an extension until 364, as Indo-Siam suggests, because your 90 day stamp finishes on day 360. (I am assuming you have done visa runs on days 90, 180 and 270). Even Thailand isn't that bureaucratic.

Why not go by the book and obtain a 12 month O-A visa in your home country or a single entry 90 day O visa in home country and extend to one year in Thailand after 60 days. Avoids visa runs.

I have tried to be helpful and look forward to being shot down.

[Guest endure]

Endure,

My sincere apologies. Many questions posed on this site appear to be contrived to test the abilities or those responding. Good. Makes for enjoyable reading and interesting debate.

You specifically ask about an extension obtained during the 4th 90 period. Very unusual I suggest. In fact if you give reason for the visa as retirement I think you will only get a single entry.

You could strike lucky and get an extension which I now believe would be for one year starting on day 270. Although I doubt if you will get it without return visits to Imm.

The more I think about it the more convinced I am that you will be told to exit the country, obtain a new single 90 day O visa and then extend to one year. I have no factual or anecdotal evidence to suport this - just a gut feeling.

I retract my comment about 3 months as it relates to my circumstances which are entirely different although it is a possible scenario. 

If as in your scenario you apply on day 330 or after you will not be given an extension until 364, as Indo-Siam suggests, because your 90 day stamp finishes on day 360. (I am assuming you have done visa runs on days 90, 180 and 270). Even Thailand isn't that bureaucratic.

Why not go by the book and obtain a 12 month O-A visa in your home country or a single entry 90 day O visa in home country and extend to one year in Thailand after 60 days. Avoids visa runs. 

I have tried to be helpful and look forward to being shot down.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Apology accepted - No problem. It probably does sound a little contrived. A 1 year non imm is quite easy to obtain in the UK and I just thought that having one would give me a bit of leeway rather than having to get everything sorted in the first 90 days after my arrival.

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Thanks Endure.

Can I refer you to Hull consul web-site info about retirement visas. I can't lift the relevant clauses because they are PDF format.

However it specifically states two ways to get this type of visa. In London, or in Thailand after having obtained a single entryO visa. It then goes on to say that multi O are available for those who don't can't meet the requirements of an OA visa.

Now if you arrive on a multi one year O and apply for extension for retirement after a few months I have no doubt you will be successful.

BUT, after a few hours sleep with your post going round in my head, my gut feeling remains that if you apply in the 12th month you will be sent away.

Anyway getting extension after first 60 days is a doddle whether you have found permanent accommodation or are still living in hotels. Whats to get sorted? Get it over with. Open bank account EASY, letter from bank EASY, Standard letter from embassy EASY, medical cert EASY. Transferring money into Thai bank a/c easy for me (but not cheap). Just a 5min phone call (then wait an hour until they phone back as a security measure): but maybe not so easy with all banks. Trip to Immigration - used to be like going to the dentist but they all seem to have gone to charm school now.

Gonna save you from hassle of visa runs and the niggling feeling at the back of your mind that I may be right.

[lopburi3]

Sorry Lopburi 3, but I ask you to read Endures post again. He refers to the last 3 months validity of the visa.

As I previously stated it is a contrived question, confirmed by his sardonic reply.

However in the circumstances he describes he would receive approx 3 months beyond last "admitted until" date which could in fact give him up to 15 months from his first entry date. So in fact of the two optional answers he gives neither is correct.

To put it in simple terms. 21 days before the first anniversary of his entry into Thailand he asks for extension based on retirement. From your and Indo-siams answer he would be given 21 days extension. Not the case.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How many ways can we say it. The visa date means nothing once you enter Thailand. That entry date is what is used to determine your extension of stay. So if you enter July 5 and apply for an extension two months later the end date of that extension will be July 4 the next year regardless of it being number one entry or number 100 entry of a multi entry visa.

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Lop,

I for one am not disputing your statement. I concur 110%. I have already retracted my reference to 3 months - I became confused with my own completely different circumstances.

However I think maybe you miss my point. Irrespective of when you apply for extension it doesn't guarantee you will receive the extension. That is my point. I am suggesting that if someone applies for a retirement in the 12th month of a 12 month O visa even with 100% correct documentation, they may very well be disappointed and I stick to this. If the extension is granted I agree with you it will be 364 days from the last entry stamp.

I arrive at my view by a strict interpretation of what is on the Hull (and other) websites but, most importantly, discussion with other expats of their varied experiences with immigration. And believe me I have thought this through and through.

Now if some one reading this thread has, or knows of someone who has, applied this late I would be happy to be shown to be wrong. I am specifically and exclusively referring to visa for RETIREMENT purposes.

[Axel]

As lopburi said, the visa has no meaning. Let me add, the moment you apply for extension your visa becomes void and your new permission to stay will be about 1 month with the remark

"Application for extension of stay under consideration...., must report in person by (date)"

Once you return you might get the 1-year extension from the date of your entry (July 5-July 4 next year)

or you get a stamp "still under consderation... come back by (date)

Should you want to travel while your application is under consideration, you have to apply for a re-entry permit, that will be granted to the date (come back) and no longer to the date shown in the visa.

Should you return without having a re-entry-permit, forget about the application for extension and make a new one. Immigration might not like this at all.

Edited October 15, 2005 by Axel

[lopburi3]

That was not what you appeared to be saying (I find no mention of refusal anywhere) and is sure not what we said - we always said he would receive an extension until the day prior to his current entry.

But why you would be fixated with information from Hull (completely irrelevant to immigration extensions of stay) or when application is made I find strange. If you meet the requirements you will receive the extension of stay on the spot. And the requirements are open and known to all. So what difference does it make when you apply? I would always advise application as soon as you meet conditions but for some that may not happen until the visa is about to expire or they may only have a single entry visa in the first place. Or they may consider it a waste of money to not use the full visa validity.

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Lop,

My last and final post on this subject. I know if I enter into "combat" with you I will surely lose.

I first referred to refusal in Post Number 14.

I am fixated about when application is made because Endure specifically refers to applying during his 4th 90 day entry.

I am not fixated on Hull. I have only made one reference. I am simply using it to help explain my position. I can quote other sources.

Axels post rings true. I did also previously refer to having to make severals visits to Imm.

I strongly disagree with you when you say if you meet the requirements you will get the extension on the spot. You have been around long enough to know that is not always the case.

[Guest endure]

How many ways can we say it.  The visa date means nothing once you enter Thailand.  That entry date is what is used to determine your extension of stay.  So if you enter July 5 and apply for an extension two months later the end date of that extension will be July 4 the next year regardless of it being number one entry or number 100 entry of a multi entry visa.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, can we be specific, if only to save my sanity If I make my initial entry (on a multi imm O) on 4th July 2006 but use the full facilities of the visa (leaviing and re-entering the country 3 times) and don't apply for an extension until 4th June 2007 what is the end date of that extension - 3rd July 2007 or 3rd May 2008? Can anyone simply tell me which date is the correct one please?

Edited October 16, 2005 by endure

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Never explain never apologize.

I promised no more comments on this topic.

However Indo-Siam sponsor this excellent site and deserve an apology. In an earlier post I implied Steve had not understood the OP question. I have looked again and I was WRONG. He gave an accurate concise reply.

My excuse is I had spent 1.5hrs in a dentists chair late that afternoon and I think residual anaesthetic had entered my brain.

Nonetheless I do not retract the last paragraph of my last post but would be happy to be shown to be wrong.

Anyway, thats it, Lop, Steve, cancel my membership if I post again on this topic.

[lopburi3]

How many ways can we say it.  The visa date means nothing once you enter Thailand.  That entry date is what is used to determine your extension of stay.  So if you enter July 5 and apply for an extension two months later the end date of that extension will be July 4 the next year regardless of it being number one entry or number 100 entry of a multi entry visa.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, can we be specific, if only to save my sanity If I make my initial entry (on a multi imm O) on 4th July 2006 but use the full facilities of the visa (leaviing and re-entering the country 3 times) and don't apply for an extension until 4th June 2007 what is the end date of that extension - 3rd July 2007 or 3rd May 2008? Can anyone simply tell me which date is the correct one please?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We did give you the answer as best we can - it will be one day prior to your (current) last entry into Thailand. So we need to know exact date you entered Thailand prior to that 4th of June 2007 extension request to give you a date. It is normally about 60 days prior so your extension of stay request (as you are not supposed to apply with more than 30 days remaining on an entry) so would end about 4 April 2008.

For SA-LN: I do believe that the statement of if you meet requirements you will receive the extension is valid. Come on - that's a cover all answer - if you don't get the extension than you don't meet that days requirements. I can't be wrong.

[Guest endure]

Thanks, Lop.

[Guest endure]

Anyway getting extension after first 60 days is a doddle whether you have found permanent accommodation or are still living in hotels. Whats to get sorted? Get it over with. Open bank account EASY, letter from bank EASY, Standard letter from embassy EASY, medical cert EASY. Transferring money into Thai bank a/c easy for me (but not cheap). Just a 5min phone call (then wait an hour until they phone back as a security measure): but maybe not so easy with all banks. Trip to Immigration - used to be like going to the dentist but they all seem to have gone to charm school now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have a bank that allows transfers just by making a phone call without the recipient account being set up with them first? Is that a UK bank?

[Seen all,learnt nothing]

Endure,

You've tricked me into replying. Now I'm set for having posting rights removed!

However. YES and YES. Cahoot (an offshoot of Abbey National). It's an internet only bank -so ideal. Because I make regular transfers they have details on record but that is not necessary. So long as you have SWIFT Code and bank a/c details to hand they'll send it to any bank in the world without prior notice. I phone on a Friday (my pension is paid 4-weekly on Fridays) before 1100UK time and money will leave same day: can be accessed from BKK Bank on monday afternoon. CAHOOT phone back within an hour to ask security questions just to ensure I am not an imposter

Cost fixed 25GBP per transaction to Cahoot (Phone call max 50THB using TOT 007 prefix -always reliable and never get put on hold). 1/4% deducted by Bangkok Bank (Min 200THB). Exchange Rate is very good. ALWAYS get within a fraction of TT exchange rate published on Bangkok Bank website (on 12 Sep got 74.9975THB/1GBP, 10 Oct 71.57 - should have delayed: GBP had nose dived but edging up again now). Any money I leave in CAHOOT gets 4% interest.

Until a year ago I had my pension paid automatically & directly into Thai bank.

Although I was charged only 9.75GBP per transaction I was getting an outrageously low exchange rate and it was taking up to 9 days before I could access the money. And I had to transfer all the pension. So I stopped.

[lopburi3]

And from the other side of the pond it is also about the same procedure - but you must first have a wire transfer agreement signed that allows phone use and a password (no call back required for overseas) and you can send to a recurring payee or a new one. But not all banks operate the same so it pays to check around.

[Guest endure]

Thanks for the info. I shall explore Cahoot a little further. I'm as far as having set up an account with Nationwide International. They charge £20 for a transfer but the receiving bank & account details must be on writtten record with them first. I'm on my hols in the LoS in January so I'm going to open an account with the BKK Bank and set the details up with Nationwide (who do do internet banking as well as fax and phone). I was thinking of starting by transferring a big chunk to the BKK Bank and only topping up when necessary/when extension time arrives rather than every month.

Cheers, chaps!

[Maestro]

How Ok, can we be specific, if only to save my sanity   If I make my initial entry (on a multi imm O) on 4th July 2006 but use the full facilities of the visa (leaviing and re-entering the country 3 times) and don't apply for an extension until 4th June 2007 what is the end date of that extension - 3rd July 2007 or 3rd May 2008? Can anyone simply tell me which date is the correct one please? 

We did give you the answer as best we can - it will be one day prior to your (current) last entry into Thailand. So we need to know exact date you entered Thailand prior to that 4th of June 2007 extension request to give you a date. It is normally about 60 days prior so your extension of stay request (as you are not supposed to apply with more than 30 days remaining on an entry) so would end about 4 April 2008.

Endure, although you tried, your information was still not specific enough for Lopburi to give you a specific end date for the annual extension but I see you now understand what is meant.

Since I love to calculate dates in Excel I made the attached table with hypothetical dates based on your proposed scenario of using the multiple-entry non-O visa to the fullest, i.e. leaving the country on the last day of each permitted period to stay. Lopburi, if this table needs any correction, please tell me.

For those who have Excel, I also attach the Excel file.

Endure, in this expample, for any trip outside Thailand starting 10 Sep. 2007 you need to apply for a re-entry permit before leaving the country, so that your extension of stay remains valid.

Edited October 16, 2005 by maestro