Crackdown On Foreign Names

[mboyd]

My sister-in-law had a baby yesterday in Ubon, the father is Canadian but sadly he passed away 6 months ago. I have been trying to take care of what I think would be his wishes for the baby, so we discussed the baby name with all the family, the sisters picked Justin as the first name and I suggested the father's name as a middle name.

Happy that we had a name everyone liked, my wife headed off today to do the paper work, I unfortunately did not go with her. She ended up going back 3 times and every time was told that the name had to be Thai, she called me and I told her that was non-sense and assumed that she would not give in, but of course she ended being a good Thai and giving in and they changed the name to Pirapan. (we were considering bringing the kid to Australia to go to school later in life, the poor thing is going to get 'Peter Pan' from day 1).

I can understand that they wouldn't accept a name written in english, and maybe that they would have a problem with 3 names, but this was an english name written in Thai and they refused to do it! Has anyone else heard of this?

[bifftastic]

I've only had the experience of my wife changing her last name to mine in the Amphur and can only suggest that maybe the name Justin, is particularly difficult to pronounce/write in Thai due to the 'st' part of it?

Maybe it's that that they objected to?

My surname is Jones, bog-standard English surname which fills up many many pages of the 'phone directory, but could not be pronounced correctly, by anyone.

Even written in Thai, makes them screw up their faces and come up with all kinds of variations of the pronunciation!

Closest they can get is 'Joan' or 'Jorn'

Maybe they looked at 'Justin' in Thai script and it looked like Ja-sa-tin? Depends what Thai letters were used, but it also might have some negative connotations to it...just a guess.

My friends baby is called Megan (her father is Irish) which, I'm reliably informed by the wife, is correctly pronounced Mae-ghaan! (Heavy emphasis on the last syllable) This was duly registered at the local Amphur with no problems or alternatives suggested, although I get scolded regularly due to my inability to say it properly!

[mboyd]

Could be, I didn't see how they spelt it but I assume something like: จัช์ติน which would kill the 's' altogether (ja-tin or with the 's', jad-tin). However my wife was told that it had to be a Thai name.

I've only had the experience of my wife changing her last name to mine in the Amphur and can only suggest that maybe the name Justin, is particularly difficult to pronounce/write in Thai due to the 'st' part of it?

Maybe it's that that they objected to?

My surname is Jones, bog-standard English surname which fills up many many pages of the 'phone directory, but could not be pronounced correctly, by anyone.

Even written in Thai, makes them screw up their faces and come up with all kinds of variations of the pronunciation!

Closest they can get is 'Joan' or 'Jorn'

Maybe they looked at 'Justin' in Thai script and it looked like Ja-sa-tin? Depends what Thai letters were used, but it also might have some negative connotations to it...just a guess.

My friends baby is called Megan (her father is Irish) which, I'm reliably informed by the wife, is correctly pronounced Mae-ghaan! (Heavy emphasis on the last syllable) This was duly registered at the local Amphur with no problems or alternatives suggested, although I get scolded regularly due to my inability to say it properly!

[vont]

Could be, I didn't see how they spelt it but I assume something like: จัช์ติน which would kill the 's' altogether (ja-tin or with the 's', jad-tin). However my wife was told that it had to be a Thai name.

I've only had the experience of my wife changing her last name to mine in the Amphur and can only suggest that maybe the name Justin, is particularly difficult to pronounce/write in Thai due to the 'st' part of it?

Maybe it's that that they objected to?

My surname is Jones, bog-standard English surname which fills up many many pages of the 'phone directory, but could not be pronounced correctly, by anyone.

Even written in Thai, makes them screw up their faces and come up with all kinds of variations of the pronunciation!

Closest they can get is 'Joan' or 'Jorn'

Maybe they looked at 'Justin' in Thai script and it looked like Ja-sa-tin? Depends what Thai letters were used, but it also might have some negative connotations to it...just a guess.

My friends baby is called Megan (her father is Irish) which, I'm reliably informed by the wife, is correctly pronounced Mae-ghaan! (Heavy emphasis on the last syllable) This was duly registered at the local Amphur with no problems or alternatives suggested, although I get scolded regularly due to my inability to say it properly!

how about trying;

จัช์-สึ-ติน as an equivalent to JUS-S-TIN

มี-เกิ่น (meaning in english--have more than enough) as an equivalent to ME-GAN

just a divergent thought....

Edited June 16, 2011 by vont

[bifftastic]

never heard that before 'it has to be a Thai name' ....odd. Yeah the 'S' in Justin would be killed by pretty much any spelling I guess

As for Megan, they went with more of a แม่ sound rather than a มี

[venturalaw]

Probably a clerk just being lazy and blaming your wife, thereby causing your wife to cave in. Typical.

Edited June 16, 2011 by venturalaw

[dave111223]

There is not such law; the baby can be called anything you want.

It's pretty ridiculously that this mother would accept being told what she can/cannot name her own baby.

IMHO it almost sounds too stupid to be true...sound more like she made this story up because she didn't actually want to call the baby Justin... did you actually hear it from the hospital themselves that they couldn't name the baby Justin?

Edited June 17, 2011 by dave111223

[Tywais]

The name can be formally changed later very easily. Many Thai's do it and some do it often.

[maccaroni man]

when my second son (age 7 now)was born bkk hospital bkk, i had a huge fight with the staff as i wanted to name him phoenix, the staff said his name must have a name that has a thai meaning. i held my ground and made sure i got the name i wanted, tbh it was a deal breaker for me, i would have left the country if they would have forced this issue.

[Mario2008]

Congratulations.

Yes, a name has to have a meaning in Thai: http://www.dopa.go.th/English/servi/cfname.htm

For children with a foreign parent normally an exception is made. The problem in this case might be that the parents were not married and thus the child doesn't have a legal father. If that is the case, the child is Thai only.

If they were indeed not married, the mother might be able to start a fathership action in which the court establish who the father is. This might open the way Candadian citizenship for the child. The Canadian embassy should be able to give more and better information on this.

[mboyd]

Congratulations.

Yes, a name has to have a meaning in Thai: http://www.dopa.go.t...ervi/cfname.htm

For children with a foreign parent normally an exception is made. The problem in this case might be that the parents were not married and thus the child doesn't have a legal father. If that is the case, the child is Thai only.

If they were indeed not married, the mother might be able to start a fathership action in which the court establish who the father is. This might open the way Candadian citizenship for the child. The Canadian embassy should be able to give more and better information on this.

Thanks for the link, this makes more sense now. My wife just told me it that they said it was because they weren't married. Never would have imagined such a law would exist.

Fortunately the Canadian embassy has agreed to give the baby a Canadian passport after we do a DNA test (already have a sample for the father), after this we can hopefully change the name.

[Nawtier]

I have 2 kids....both have western names.....was not a problem here and if it had been a problem.....I would have asked the child to be named 'nothing' and given them a right headache.

Also not married....so that was not an issue.

.

Edited June 17, 2011 by Nawtier

[dave111223]

Congratulations.

Yes, a name has to have a meaning in Thai: http://www.dopa.go.th/English/servi/cfname.htm

This seems to be unclear (bad translation?):

2. Names must have meaning in the Thai language must not be vulgar.

Either they mean:

2. Names must have meaning in Thai language

AND

3. Names must not have a vulgar meaning in Thai language

Or they just mean:

2. Name must not have a vulgar meaning in Thai language

It doesn't make sense they way they have it now with 2 points in a 1 point sentence?

And many Thai names are "unique" (ie a monk just made up a word and said this is a good thing to call the baby), how does this square up with "Having a meaning in Thai Language"..it wouldn't be found in any Thai dictionary.

Edited June 17, 2011 by dave111223

[mboyd]

There is not such law; the baby can be called anything you want.

It's pretty ridiculously that this mother would accept being told what she can/cannot name her own baby.

IMHO it almost sounds too stupid to be true...sound more like she made this story up because she didn't actually want to call the baby Justin... did you actually hear it from the hospital themselves that they couldn't name the baby Justin?

This was at the Tessaban not the hospital, my wife suggested the name herself so she wouldn't be lying about that. I'm pretty much used to "Too stupid to be true" now

[onionluke]

When we registered by birth certificate my son with the thai consulate in hong kong they insisted he have a thai name to add to the english name on his existing hk birth certificate. No problemo, and we got a name from a god mother . The only thing is now his thai passport and birth certificate have a diffrent name on them from his UK passport and hk birth certificate . To be changed at our expense at a later date or just left like that .

I might add though that no one in Thailand has ever called him by his thai name , Wiphu , anywhere , school , government , anywhere.

Luke

[GooEng]

the gf (as she then was) and i were estranged when our first son was born and although we'd agreed to call him ALEX prior to the estrangement, when it came to the time of birth i was offshore working and she bowed to the pressure of her mum (gawd bless khun mae ) and he was named PATTIPAN with her thai surname.

we then got back together, got married and we wanted to get ALEX, as he was already known anyway properly renamed on his birth certificate to ALEXANDER with my surname.

to cut a long story short it was a bloody ball-ache!

we had to visit the hospital where he was born, then the local amphur where he was born then the amphur where we now live and the result was that they finally allowed us to change his surname to mine once we provided a marriage certificate, but refused to allow us to change his first name from PATTIPAN to ALEXANDER as it was a farang name.

since then we have had a second son who was named ARTHUR GEORGE with my surname without any problems what-so-ever in the amphur.

i also have a good thai mate who changed his first name and told me it is easily and commonly done - for a variety of reasons from legal to personal preference to (bizzarely) the advice of fortune tellers or monks!

we plan to change his name by deed poll in the uk for his UK birth certificate and get his UK passport changed next time we visit the uk.

fortunately the thais never really use their proper first name anyway, so his nickname is and that's what everyone from family to teachers call him.

it's just irritating that it seems to be down to the whims of the local registrar at the amphur whether or not you can actually change the thai first name to a farang one.

I have read the link above which states that the name must have a meaning in thai, but you can't get much more farang and meaninless in thai than ARTHUR GEORGE!!!

if need be we will wait until ALEX is an adult and then he can change his name himself.

Edited June 17, 2011 by joe ekkamai

[Firelily]

I don't understand, sounds like a local whim, I know a bunch of people who are Thai citizens only and have Arabic names. If those are allowed, maybe in case of resistance from officials at the registration office, one could try to claim to be Christian and say that the chosen name is a good, traditional Christian name meaning this and that? Just an idea.

[Nawtier]

We named our first kid 'Spok'....had no problems there.

[sinbin]

Once you register the child's name at the Amphur, you have 14 days in which to go back and change it, if you want.

Edited June 18, 2011 by sinbin

[venturalaw]

the gf (as she then was) and i were estranged when our first son was born and although we'd agreed to call him ALEX prior to the estrangement, when it came to the time of birth i was offshore working and she bowed to the pressure of her mum (gawd bless khun mae ) and he was named PATTIPAN with her thai surname.

we then got back together, got married and we wanted to get ALEX, as he was already known anyway properly renamed on his birth certificate to ALEXANDER with my surname.

to cut a long story short it was a bloody ball-ache!

we had to visit the hospital where he was born, then the local amphur where he was born then the amphur where we now live and the result was that they finally allowed us to change his surname to mine once we provided a marriage certificate, but refused to allow us to change his first name from PATTIPAN to ALEXANDER as it was a farang name.

since then we have had a second son who was named ARTHUR GEORGE with my surname without any problems what-so-ever in the amphur.

i also have a good thai mate who changed his first name and told me it is easily and commonly done - for a variety of reasons from legal to personal preference to (bizzarely) the advice of fortune tellers or monks!

we plan to change his name by deed poll in the uk for his UK birth certificate and get his UK passport changed next time we visit the uk.

fortunately the thais never really use their proper first name anyway, so his nickname is and that's what everyone from family to teachers call him.

it's just irritating that it seems to be down to the whims of the local registrar at the amphur whether or not you can actually change the thai first name to a farang one.

I have read the link above which states that the name must have a meaning in thai, but you can't get much more farang and meaninless in thai than ARTHUR GEORGE!!!

if need be we will wait until ALEX is an adult and then he can change his name himself.

Interesting story. I know of a Thai woman who changed her name legally twice. I saw the paperwork which was translated from Thai to English. The reasoning provided was merely because she wanted to. So it should be no issue. Regarding the name having a meaning, most western names do have meanings. Now, for a meaning in Thai - that's a challenge. But it appears from this thread that the rule is not consistently applied - big surprise.

[seriouseats]

Congratulations.

Yes, a name has to have a meaning in Thai: http://www.dopa.go.t...ervi/cfname.htm

For children with a foreign parent normally an exception is made. The problem in this case might be that the parents were not married and thus the child doesn't have a legal father. If that is the case, the child is Thai only.

If they were indeed not married, the mother might be able to start a fathership action in which the court establish who the father is. This might open the way Candadian citizenship for the child. The Canadian embassy should be able to give more and better information on this.

Im not legally married in this country and my child has both first and last name that are very far from anything thai. In fact there is a "é' in the name.

No issue whatsoever.

Also, no nickname as i find this retarded.

Edited June 21, 2011 by seriouseats

[SteeleJoe]

Just to add to the accumulated data...

2 kids born in Thailand. Both have 3 names (First, Middle and Family). None of the names are Thai (just kind of worked out that way -- wasn't an intentional effort to avoid it); I was aware of the law long before I had kids but from the day they were born to now, never a word has been said anywhere at anytime (Hospital, Amphur, Schools) about my kids needing a Thai name.

Oh, and I wasn't legally married when we had the first but was for the second.

Edited June 21, 2011 by SteeleJoe

[Mario2008]

The big difference with your case and that of the OP is that in the OP's case the father is dead. I suspect that is an important factor, as he cannot declare if he is the father or not.

[SteeleJoe]

The big difference with your case and that of the OP is that in the OP's case the father is dead. I suspect that is an important factor, as he cannot declare if he is the father or not.

Indeed. I confess I had, in following the comments of others, lost sight of the specific circumstances described in the OP.

[Trembly]

Reading this thread and others makes me think that it would be a good idea for ThaiVisa to have a pool of downloadable sections ofThai law stating that you can do this and you can do that. It can then be printed out you (or your wife) can literally give chapter and verse to the apparatchik.

You'd better make sure you get it right, but the results could be, as per mastercard, priceless. :-)

[Mario2008]

Several sections of the forum have pinned topics, inlcuding links to relevant laws.

The family section has several links to relevant laws and articles on Thai family law here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/313877-thai-family-law/

And many other sections have similair links. I must admit I often overlook the pinne topics too, but often a wealth of information can be found in there.