Thai Democrat Rally At Ratchaprasong 'Not Just To Woo Voters'

[animatic]

Red-shirt leader Nutthawut claims northeastern men set to disrupt Democrat rally at Ratchaprasong tomorrow, says no affiliation with reds /TAN_network

A pre-emptive fake Red Shirt proclamation.

If no affiliation.. they why does he know about it.

When we attack tomorrow it won't be us,

it will be someone else doing it for us,

but not for us.

[Thai at Heart]

I think it might also depend on the substance of the proceedings and if the local populace feels threatened by what is taking place.

Adding to the traffic misery that is downtown Bangkok is enough I think.

[jdinasia]

Red-shirt leader Nutthawut claims northeastern men set to disrupt Democrat rally at Ratchaprasong tomorrow, says no affiliation with reds /TAN_network

Right ---- it just so happens that the Red leader Nutthuwat (PTP party-list) happens to know that there WILL be men from Isaan disrupting a political campaign ... but they aren't real reds! He must be amazingly clued-in to the "fake reds" as well as his own violent mob!

(note the perfect example of why Thaksin tries to keep the reds and PTP thought of as separate (yet can't since the guy making this proclamation is on the party-list for PTP --- political payback for his efforts last year!)

Can someone remind me why Nutthawut isn't currently in custody? If he's on bail, don't the bail conditions preclude him from making announcements like this? It's not like he's got MP's immunity.

You would have to ask the DSI and courts that question. Personally, they should all be in jail (those that called for violence last year --- Nutthawut is amongst them.) Clearly the UDD and the PTP are not just the street (real politik) arm and the political arm of the same organization though!

[Who, me ?]

The good thing about this thread, and a couple others running now, is that we don't talk about Yingluck at all.... Is it that she is soon to be forgotten??

[rubl]

...

Anyway, having 'torn this up piece by piece', chalk this up as another TV victory, big guy. You deserve it!

In a way it is indeed a victory for the TV Forum that this discussion has been open, frank and without bloodshed. Bravo indeed

[Thai at Heart]

The good thing about this thread, and a couple others running now, is that we don't talk about Yingluck at all.... Is it that she is soon to be forgotten??

I find it far more interesting to see the Dems campaign apparently implode by coming up with the fine idea that stopping the traffic in Bangkok will get them more votes. If they decided to "show the truth" in Chiangmai, Chiangrai, Khon Kaen, Kalasin and Udon, they may actually convince a couple of PTP supporters to vote for them. Al they are doing is annoying their own grass roots. Very stupid ploy I think.

[warfie]

Red-shirt leader Nutthawut claims northeastern men set to disrupt Democrat rally at Ratchaprasong tomorrow, says no affiliation with reds /TAN_network

Shouldn't this be in the Jokes forum?

[rubl]

I find it far more interesting to see the Dems campaign apparently implode by coming up with the fine idea that stopping the traffic in Bangkok will get them more votes. If they decided to "show the truth" in Chiangmai, Chiangrai, Khon Kaen, Kalasin and Udon, they may actually convince a couple of PTP supporters to vote for them. Al they are doing is annoying their own grass roots. Very stupid ploy I think.

I do doubt it will be a prolonged rally like the PTPUDD rallies starting before 10AM and ending after 10PM

Does anyone here have a timetable for the event tomorrow? I assume it will be a daylight only event from 10AM - 2PM, but don't really know.

(edit: add: the red-shirt group cursing the Dems at Ratchaprasong at the moment are not obstructing traffic I assume?)

Edited June 22, 2011 by rubl

[rixalex]

I find it far more interesting to see the Dems campaign apparently implode by coming up with the fine idea that stopping the traffic in Bangkok will get them more votes. If they decided to "show the truth" in Chiangmai, Chiangrai, Khon Kaen, Kalasin and Udon, they may actually convince a couple of PTP supporters to vote for them. Al they are doing is annoying their own grass roots. Very stupid ploy I think.

I think you'll find traffic is already stopped in Bangkok. A few hours of the Dems doing their thing won't have much impact on people getting about.

[Who, me ?]

The good thing about this thread, and a couple others running now, is that we don't talk about Yingluck at all.... Is it that she is soon to be forgotten??

I find it far more interesting to see the Dems campaign apparently implode by coming up with the fine idea that stopping the traffic in Bangkok will get them more votes. If they decided to "show the truth" in Chiangmai, Chiangrai, Khon Kaen, Kalasin and Udon, they may actually convince a couple of PTP supporters to vote for them. Al they are doing is annoying their own grass roots. Very stupid ploy I think.

As I was around during the whole time that the reds had their camp and mobs, threatened and bullied people, basically had all their violent circus, I am very sure that NO ONE except the reds (UDD and PTP) will feel disturbed by the meeting that will be held tomorrow.

[jdinasia]

I find it far more interesting to see the Dems campaign apparently implode by coming up with the fine idea that stopping the traffic in Bangkok will get them more votes. If they decided to "show the truth" in Chiangmai, Chiangrai, Khon Kaen, Kalasin and Udon, they may actually convince a couple of PTP supporters to vote for them. Al they are doing is annoying their own grass roots. Very stupid ploy I think.

I think you'll find traffic is already stopped in Bangkok. A few hours of the Dems doing their thing won't have much impact on people getting about.

The Dems will be certain to keep at ;east a lane of traffic open each way too .....

[letitbe]

The good thing about this thread, and a couple others running now, is that we don't talk about Yingluck at all.... Is it that she is soon to be forgotten??

I find it far more interesting to see the Dems campaign apparently implode by coming up with the fine idea that stopping the traffic in Bangkok will get them more votes. If they decided to "show the truth" in Chiangmai, Chiangrai, Khon Kaen, Kalasin and Udon, they may actually convince a couple of PTP supporters to vote for them. Al they are doing is annoying their own grass roots. Very stupid ploy I think.

and where do you live. If you really think anyone in deep red territory can say anything that is slightest off red message without fear of death please get a Thai to come up and try and I guarantee you he/she would be lucky to escape with their lives. That is democracy Taksin red shirt style. Also they have meetings here to teach followers what democracy and politics means. Sort of reminds me of pol pot death camps or hitlers youth and rest. You really do not live in real red world here.

[jdinasia]

Let's tear this apart piece by piece ......

UDD street level violent grassroots* organization that can carry out the 'real politik' agenda of the political arm, while the political arms cries ... "but we are different!" Extremely useful in creating conflict that it appears only THEIR political arm can handle.

PTP a seemingly 'above board' political arm to use to offer a relief from their street level thugs. "With us in power this won't happen" The political arm spouts the same simple message over and over (nothing complex -- just a message to get into the minds of a limited electorate)

Why bring the UDD (indicted) terrorists into the PTP? To keep the loyalty of the street level organization AND as political payback for the UDD leaders that took the risks. Why keep both? Violence may still be needed. Thaksin's job would be much harder without both groups. It is a stick and carrot approach to real politik.

Weng and others learned how to work the three pronged attack against a government back in Vietnam a long time ago, their only failure was that the third prong (bringing the military over to their side) failed. Had they succeeded in getting the military everything would have ended quite differently.

You will note that Chavalit's break with PTP was over the LM charges levied against the red shirt leaders.

This article from AT may help those who have lost the plot, catch back up.

Thai power grows from the barrel of a gun

By William Barnes

BANGKOK - The relative success of Thailand's red-garbed anti-government protest group in outmaneuvering the government and military owes much to Maoist revolutionary thought and guerilla tactics.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/LE13Ae01.html

Why bring the UDD (indicted) terrorists into the PTP? To keep the loyalty of the street level organization AND as political payback for the UDD leaders that took the risks. Why keep both? Violence may still be needed. Thaksin's job would be much harder without both groups. It is a stick and carrot approach to real politik.

I thought the 'Black Shirts' were supposed to be Thaksin's 'muscle'. They appeared somewhat more potent than red shirts with catapults and molotovs. Never mind.

The fact that UDD leaders are being 'paid back' for taking risks by getting party-list places simply shows that they may have been being used - for votes (or violence, as you would have it) - which doesn't say much about their innate 'sameness' to PTP members or Thaksin.

Anyway, having 'torn this up piece by piece', chalk this up as another TV victory, big guy. You deserve it!

Does this mean that you did or did not read the AT article?

I will accept your admission of defeat with all the graciousness it was offered with, Thank you 'big guy'

[webfact]

Pheu Thai urges supporters to avoid Ratchaprasong during Democrat rally

BANGKOK, June 22 – The Pheu Thai Party on Wednesday issued a statement asking its members and supporters to stay away from the Democrat Party rally at Ratchaprasong, citing concerns over possible disturbances by third parties.

Pheu Thai party spokesman Prompong Nopparit read the statement following the planned political rally Thursday by the Democrat Party in Bangkok's prime Ratchaprasong commercial zone, the site of last year's clashes between government forces and 'Red Shirt' United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) protesters in April and May.

"The Pheu Thai Party urges its members, staff and supporters not to enter the Democrat's rally site at Ratchaprasong intersection tomorrow to avoid possible violence which may be caused by persons who want to see disorder and put the blame on the party," Mr Prompong said.

The party spokesman claimed he learned from an 'insider' in a national security agency that some groups will stir up disturbances on Thursday, so he urged security agencies to prevent such actions.

“Such disorder may lead to the imposition of a state of emergency, the situation which is not good for the upcoming election,” he said.

Mr Promprong spokesman said that some groups of people are now attempting to obstruct and slander Pheu Thai party without grounds, asserting that the party has always conducted constructive political campaigns.

The Democrats earlier said their major election campaign event at Ratchaprasong is aimed at fostering better understanding among the public about the government's handling of the Red Shirt protest last year. They said political activities will be held in the open space in front of CentralWorld shopping mall, not on the roadway, and that it would not obstruct traffic. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2011-06-22

[metisdead]

A rather heated exchange of discussion has been removed. I'd like to remind everybody about the zero tolerance policy in place until the elections:

[Who, me ?]

Pheu Thai urges supporters to avoid Ratchaprasong during Democrat rally

BANGKOK, June 22 – The Pheu Thai Party on Wednesday issued a statement asking its members and supporters to stay away from the Democrat Party rally at Ratchaprasong, citing concerns over possible disturbances by third parties.

Pheu Thai party spokesman Prompong Nopparit read the statement following the planned political rally Thursday by the Democrat Party in Bangkok's prime Ratchaprasong commercial zone, the site of last year's clashes between government forces and 'Red Shirt' United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) protesters in April and May.

"The Pheu Thai Party urges its members, staff and supporters not to enter the Democrat's rally site at Ratchaprasong intersection tomorrow to avoid possible violence which may be caused by persons who want to see disorder and put the blame on the party," Mr Prompong said.

The party spokesman claimed he learned from an 'insider' in a national security agency that some groups will stir up disturbances on Thursday, so he urged security agencies to prevent such actions.

“Such disorder may lead to the imposition of a state of emergency, the situation which is not good for the upcoming election,” he said.

Mr Promprong spokesman said that some groups of people are now attempting to obstruct and slander Pheu Thai party without grounds, asserting that the party has always conducted constructive political campaigns.

The Democrats earlier said their major election campaign event at Ratchaprasong is aimed at fostering better understanding among the public about the government's handling of the Red Shirt protest last year. They said political activities will be held in the open space in front of CentralWorld shopping mall, not on the roadway, and that it would not obstruct traffic. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2011-06-22

Insiders??

[hanuman1]

Red-shirt leader Nutthawut claims northeastern men set to disrupt Democrat rally at Ratchaprasong tomorrow, says no affiliation with reds /TAN_network

Right ---- it just so happens that the Red leader Nutthuwat (PTP party-list) happens to know that there WILL be men from Isaan disrupting a political campaign ... but they aren't real reds! He must be amazingly clued-in to the "fake reds" as well as his own violent mob!

(note the perfect example of why Thaksin tries to keep the reds and PTP thought of as separate (yet can't since the guy making this proclamation is on the party-list for PTP --- political payback for his efforts last year!)

Can someone remind me why Nutthawut isn't currently in custody? If he's on bail, don't the bail conditions preclude him from making announcements like this? It's not like he's got MP's immunity.

You would have to ask the DSI and courts that question. Personally, they should all be in jail (those that called for violence last year --- Nutthawut is amongst them.) Clearly the UDD and the PTP are not just the street (real politik) arm and the political arm of the same organization though!

I'm surprised that someone as well informed as you can't help with this question. So you think he should be in jail. Fair enough. I think he should be dealt with according to the law of the land as implemented by the Thai justice system, and that is what's happening. As a result of that ongoing process he is currently free so technically he shouldn't be in jail.

I'd just like to know the reasons why. Anyone? Aren't red-haters bothered by not knowing why this person is free? Someone must know.

[rubl]

Can someone remind me why Nutthawut isn't currently in custody? If he's on bail, don't the bail conditions preclude him from making announcements like this? It's not like he's got MP's immunity.

You would have to ask the DSI and courts that question. Personally, they should all be in jail (those that called for violence last year --- Nutthawut is amongst them.) Clearly the UDD and the PTP are not just the street (real politik) arm and the political arm of the same organization though!

I'm surprised that someone as well informed as you can't help with this question. So you think he should be in jail. Fair enough. I think he should be dealt with according to the law of the land as implemented by the Thai justice system, and that is what's happening. As a result of that ongoing process he is currently free so technically he shouldn't be in jail.

I'd just like to know the reasons why. Anyone? Aren't red-haters bothered by not knowing why this person is free? Someone must know.

From an article of the other newspaper it said six people testified in support of the defendants and after deliberations the court ordered their release on bail.

From quotable articles:

2011-02-22

"The decision to release all seven red-shirt leaders and a protest guard was a surprise. At most, two leaders were expected to be freed.

But the court ruled that unspecified new evidence made their temporary release possible - on condition that they did not incite or instigate any violence or disorder."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12536597

2011-02-22

"Earlier on Saturday, the red shirt group had warned to hold even bigger demonstrations if all the red shirt members arrested during the protests in April and May last year were not released."

http://callcenterinfo.tmcnet.com/news/2011/02/22/5328975.htm

And just for the fun of it

2011-06-01

"Natthawut's struggle for true irony

Published on June 1, 2011

Thai politics may be short on many things - honesty, decency, common sense - but one can safely say that it is definitely not short on irony, especially during this election season.

Take core red-shirt leader Natthawut Saikua's recent threat to sue any member of the Democrat Party who slurs his good name by referring to him as a "terrorist". As coincidence would have it, Natthawut has actually been charged with terrorism, presumably for minor infractions such as inciting Thai citizens to mass arson if his "democratic" demands are not met. However, as the "firebrand" orator has not actually been convicted of any crime, Democrats and others might opt to refer to him as an "alleged terrorist", which should put them legally in the clear."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2011/06/01/opinion/Natthawut&039;s-struggle-for-true-irony-30156679.html

[hanuman1]

You would have to ask the DSI and courts that question. Personally, they should all be in jail (those that called for violence last year --- Nutthawut is amongst them.) Clearly the UDD and the PTP are not just the street (real politik) arm and the political arm of the same organization though!

I'm surprised that someone as well informed as you can't help with this question. So you think he should be in jail. Fair enough. I think he should be dealt with according to the law of the land as implemented by the Thai justice system, and that is what's happening. As a result of that ongoing process he is currently free so technically he shouldn't be in jail.

I'd just like to know the reasons why. Anyone? Aren't red-haters bothered by not knowing why this person is free? Someone must know.

From an article of the other newspaper it said six people testified in support of the defendants and after deliberations the court ordered their release on bail.

From quotable articles:

2011-02-22

"The decision to release all seven red-shirt leaders and a protest guard was a surprise. At most, two leaders were expected to be freed.

But the court ruled that unspecified new evidence made their temporary release possible - on condition that they did not incite or instigate any violence or disorder."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12536597

2011-02-22

"Earlier on Saturday, the red shirt group had warned to hold even bigger demonstrations if all the red shirt members arrested during the protests in April and May last year were not released."

http://callcenterinfo.tmcnet.com/news/2011/02/22/5328975.htm

And just for the fun of it

2011-06-01

"Natthawut's struggle for true irony

Published on June 1, 2011

Thai politics may be short on many things - honesty, decency, common sense - but one can safely say that it is definitely not short on irony, especially during this election season.

Take core red-shirt leader Natthawut Saikua's recent threat to sue any member of the Democrat Party who slurs his good name by referring to him as a "terrorist". As coincidence would have it, Natthawut has actually been charged with terrorism, presumably for minor infractions such as inciting Thai citizens to mass arson if his "democratic" demands are not met. However, as the "firebrand" orator has not actually been convicted of any crime, Democrats and others might opt to refer to him as an "alleged terrorist", which should put them legally in the clear."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2011/06/01/opinion/Natthawut&039;s-struggle-for-true-irony-30156679.html

Thanks a lot for that, Uncle Rubl. So it is 'unspecified new evidence' that has ensured Nattawut's release on bail. That's a bit disappointing. The judge clearly knows something we don't. I wonder if anyone thinks he's in Thaksin's pocket too?

As for the suing of people calling him a terrorist, well I can see his point. A nutter he may be, but terrorist? Not yet (as far as the law is concerned)

Edited June 22, 2011 by hanuman1

[rubl]

Thanks a lot for that, Uncle Rubl. So it is 'unspecified new evidence' that has ensured Nattawut's release on bail. That's a bit disappointing. The judge clearly knows something we don't. I wonder if anyone thinks he's in Thaksin's pocket too?

As for the suing of people calling him a terrorist, well I can see his point. A nutter he may be, but terrorist? Not yet (as far as the law is concerned)

You may consider asking one of the six witnesses. They were Pol Maj-Gen Wichai Sangprapai, the Metropolitan Police Division 1 commander; Veera Musikhapong, a former UDD chairman and accused terrorist released earlier on bail; Deputy Prime Minister Sanan Kachornprasart; and government-appointed Truth for Reconcilitation Committee chairman Kanit Na Nakorn.

Counting I only see five names, don't know who number six was

(edit: looking at my fingers and slowly counting again this time, I only get up to FOUR names. Sorry, one of those days )

Edited June 22, 2011 by rubl

[hanuman1]

Thanks a lot for that, Uncle Rubl. So it is 'unspecified new evidence' that has ensured Nattawut's release on bail. That's a bit disappointing. The judge clearly knows something we don't. I wonder if anyone thinks he's in Thaksin's pocket too?

As for the suing of people calling him a terrorist, well I can see his point. A nutter he may be, but terrorist? Not yet (as far as the law is concerned)

You may consider asking one of the six witnesses. They were Pol Maj-Gen Wichai Sangprapai, the Metropolitan Police Division 1 commander; Veera Musikhapong, a former UDD chairman and accused terrorist released earlier on bail; Deputy Prime Minister Sanan Kachornprasart; and government-appointed Truth for Reconcilitation Committee chairman Kanit Na Nakorn.

Counting I only see five names, don't know who number six was

Those witnesses seem to be a reasonable mix of people who either wanted to see him in or out of jail. Good to know that the judge apparently heard arguments from both sides of the fence before making a decision. I wonder why the Deputy Prime Minister was there in defence of him though.

Edited June 22, 2011 by hanuman1

[jdinasia]

I'm surprised that someone as well informed as you can't help with this question. So you think he should be in jail. Fair enough. I think he should be dealt with according to the law of the land as implemented by the Thai justice system, and that is what's happening. As a result of that ongoing process he is currently free so technically he shouldn't be in jail.

I'd just like to know the reasons why. Anyone? Aren't red-haters bothered by not knowing why this person is free? Someone must know.

That is why I used the word "Personally," when I stated that all of the people calling for violence from the red stage should be in jail. (I guess you just overlooked that word )

I accept the court's decision and frankly couldn't be bothered to google when you appear to have full motor control of your hands and could do the research yourself, so it wasn't "can't help" it was simply can't be bothered to I am glad Rubl relieved you of the burden of looking it up

I used the word (indicted) just as advisedly as I used the word "Personally" though perhaps I should have made it a longer clause such as "Nutthawut who has been indicted for terrorism."

Did you enjoy the AT article?

[steveromagnino]

Thanks for making this distinction between the PTP and UDD. It's just another example of how the lazy, disingenuous and deliberately devisive formula trumpeted by the military cheerleaders: PTP = UDD = Thaksin is flawed and serves only to disrupt constructive debate by willfully ignoring the pertinent differences between these players.

You have done this thread a good turn, in my opinion.

How do explain the number of UDD leaders on the PTP party list? Tell me again about the pertinent differences in the players?

TH

There are some UDD leaders on the PTP party list. Others on the PTP party list have nothing to do with the UDD. This is one reason why the PTP is NOT the same as the UDD. Does this make sense to you?

I would think strongly related would be the best description; they are not two names for the same group; however PT/Thaksin/UDD have all stated at various times that one is a political arm and the other is a grass roots arm (to my best recollection).

Were PT not linked, one might wonder why they, at no stage, have ever condemned:

- burning various buildings

- flagrant breaches of THai law regarding protests

- kidnapping a senior executive in the telecommunications industry against his will

- storming private buildings and blocking public roads

- storming and damaging a major Pattaya hotel, and assaulting multiple individuals including representatives of foreign countries

- confronting another equally law breaking political movement with the usage of what some might consider excessive force

- the activities of some UDD members regarding comments on HWSNBM; requests for members to burn other people's property, etc and subsequent inclusion in the PT list MP list

In the same way one might also question why UDD never seem to question:

- the very real and obvious breaches of Thai law (well, to me and many others) committed by the Shinawatra family including already proven examples of fraud and deception

- the performance of the PPP government

- the honesty of PPP leaders leading up to their overthrow

- why someone like Chavalit can effortlessly drift into their midst, appearing in a pseudo leadership role, when, let's be honest, he's completely perfect for running a country, providing the objective is bankruptcy, and a leader who is probably senile?

- why a large number of red shirt leaders appear in senior positions on the party list heirachy of PT, yet not all leaders are in there

and

- never endorses any other leadership other than the PT party

The vast majority of red shirters will never have any opportunity to become an MP anyhow; the constitution that they want to reinstate and the current constitution both ensure that, by requiring a minimum education level many will never attain; not that this has EVER been a talking point (and IMHO should be) for either PT or UDD - in fact for a political entity so obsessed with inequality, the almost total lack of policy relating to addressing inequality in real terms (rather than the rather hazy issues in a document that perhaps <100,000 people in Thailand have read cover to cover) from either group is worrying; I believe the rural poor need a voice, to enjoy the fruits of development. Yet.....who is their voice?

1994 No one

1995 No one

2000 OK arguably they get something, finally - healthcare and a village fund - both requiring a lot of work to actually work

2004 No one

2006 No one

2007 No one

2011 Other than expensive bribes from every party with very questionable benefits..... no one

It is interesting that while simultaneously painting the more tenuous link, the yellow shirts = democrats = current government; that the red shirts are so careful to attempt to distance the red shirt movement from PT while simultaneously recommending them; it is quite obvious that politically some of the activities of a few red shirt supporters might undermine democracy were they a part of a political party....hence they are not. By this I refer to heckling, destroying and vandalising signage of rival parties (almost all 16 and 10). However, that's a very cynical way of conducting an electoral campaign, and may come to haunt them later on.

It also continues the tit for tat likelihood in the future; irrespective of who wins and who loses, each election needs to be cleaner and better conducted than the one before it, given how low the starting point is.

Engaging in rallies at emotional venues; destroying signage; childish heckling....it is interesting the last 2 were actually started by the yellow shirt movement pre 2006 election, and we now see the result today....monkey see monkey do. The first one...well the red shirts arguably might have started it with their annoying and self centered shutting down of the centre of bangkok every 2 weeks for a while....and now we see the Dems engaging in what I can only guess is a stoop for them for more of the same. let's hope they deliver as promised and don't go the childish iQ=50 route of blocking roads, traffic, etc etc.

It's the cycle going in the wrong direction that is most worrying, and simply reflects that Thailand has a lot of growing up to do if a democracy is going to function effectively here. Policy wise is even worse!

Anyhow, let's face it, the people who engage in most of this sort of activity (heckling and signage graffiti/ destruction)...that's like the myspace version of being creative (I will show I am very creative by posting content and links of stuff by other people on a page with a few flashing lights and some odd use of cApItAlz on my myspace page, to showcase how creative I am).

now...for those of you wanting to see my myspace page....let me link here :-)

[links to myspace are blocked by the ICT]

Edited June 22, 2011 by steveromagnino

[hanuman1]

I'm surprised that someone as well informed as you can't help with this question. So you think he should be in jail. Fair enough. I think he should be dealt with according to the law of the land as implemented by the Thai justice system, and that is what's happening. As a result of that ongoing process he is currently free so technically he shouldn't be in jail.

I'd just like to know the reasons why. Anyone? Aren't red-haters bothered by not knowing why this person is free? Someone must know.

That is why I used the word "Personally," when I stated that all of the people calling for violence from the red stage should be in jail. (I guess you just overlooked that word )

I accept the court's decision and frankly couldn't be bothered to google when you appear to have full motor control of your hands and could do the research yourself, so it wasn't "can't help" it was simply can't be bothered to I am glad Rubl relieved you of the burden of looking it up

I used the word (indicted) just as advisedly as I used the word "Personally" though perhaps I should have made it a longer clause such as "Nutthawut who has been indicted for terrorism."

Did you enjoy the AT article?

I put precisely the same amount of effort into reading that AT article as you did finding out why Nattawut was released.

I would have thought since you've spent so much time highlighting the clear error of his ways, you'd also be interested in why he was free. But that would take the kind of balanced enquiry that is alien to a prejudiced view.

Okay, out of feeling a bit guilty about having a go at you for not bothering to find out why Nattawhut was released, I've now read the AT article. It is interesting and ought to be taken into account. I wouldn't base my entire viewpoint of the red shirts on it though.

Edited June 22, 2011 by hanuman1

[geriatrickid]

I guess the Democrats rallying at Democracy Monument would have given very similar comments.

The Pheu Thai deputy leader Chat Kuldilok seems a bit naive for a politician to say "he was disappointed that the country's oldest political party would stoop down to discredit Pheu Thai".

As for 'hurting the feelings of the red shirts even more by choosing to rally where the crackdown happened', words slowly start to fail me

Did the PTP kill any protestors at Democracy monument? I don't think so. Democracy Monument was erected to commemorate the coup d'etat that established a constitutional monarchy. I am surprised you did not criticize the selection of the Democracy Monument on that basis.

The Democrat party holding a rally at the site of where some of its oppenents violently died is rubbing salt into a very open wound. The Democrat party can hold its rallies anywhere it is legally allowed to do so, but the selection of the site shows poor judgement and a lack of sensitivity.

Rubbing salt. Poor judgement. Lack of sensitivity. Can I ask you, Geriatrickid where were you last year when the reds were around, protesting, rioting, provoking, harassing, threatening, shooting, burning, killing? Do you think they were showing extremely smart judgement? Do you think they were full of sensitivity? If you were around, you would have seen how these reds acted. So honestly, rubbing salt on their wounds is only justice, and a very light one. Don't make yourself look like a fool, you certainly are better than your post shows....

I was in Bangkok for a few days in April and was staying in a hotel that was under the protection of both a private security firm contracted by the European stakeholders and the Royal Thai Police. . Several cabinet ministers and military officers were billeted there as were some foreign embassy staff and the usual tourist and business visitor complement . I did not enter the immediate conflict zones after being told in very blunt terms by some of the "guests" that it would be foolhardy. I did however go to observe some activity and had sufficient opportunity to hear the conversations of people that knew what was going on. As such, I think I had an idea of what was taking place.

I trust this answers your question.

[jdinasia]

While you are entitled to your opinion about the Dems gk .... I would think that you would consider the twice monthly red rallies "rubbing salt", when I see it as simply propaganda. They do it to try and keep things stirred up. He needs to address their lies.

The Dems need to fight the red propaganda and be forceful about standing up to them. After all, many Thais think he waited too long to disperse the reds and many think that ordering them dispersed was evil. He has no hope on reaching the latter group but he owes it to his supporters to stand up and tell "the other side of the story" in a dramatic way that will be seen as decisive by people that felt he was too slow while remaining compassionate about the loss of life for those that are sitting the fence.

[jdinasia]

I'm surprised that someone as well informed as you can't help with this question. So you think he should be in jail. Fair enough. I think he should be dealt with according to the law of the land as implemented by the Thai justice system, and that is what's happening. As a result of that ongoing process he is currently free so technically he shouldn't be in jail.

I'd just like to know the reasons why. Anyone? Aren't red-haters bothered by not knowing why this person is free? Someone must know.

That is why I used the word "Personally," when I stated that all of the people calling for violence from the red stage should be in jail. (I guess you just overlooked that word )

I accept the court's decision and frankly couldn't be bothered to google when you appear to have full motor control of your hands and could do the research yourself, so it wasn't "can't help" it was simply can't be bothered to I am glad Rubl relieved you of the burden of looking it up

I used the word (indicted) just as advisedly as I used the word "Personally" though perhaps I should have made it a longer clause such as "Nutthawut who has been indicted for terrorism."

Did you enjoy the AT article?

I put precisely the same amount of effort into reading that AT article as you did finding out why Nattawut was released.

I would have thought since you've spent so much time highlighting the clear error of his ways, you'd also be interested in why he was free. But that would take the kind of balanced enquiry that is alien to a prejudiced view.

Nah .. I knew WHY he was free. The courts granted bail. I did follow the links Rubl gave just because he took the effort to do the work I assumed you didn't read the AT article because "that would take the kind of balanced enquiry that is alien to a prejudiced view."

[hanuman1]

I'm surprised that someone as well informed as you can't help with this question. So you think he should be in jail. Fair enough. I think he should be dealt with according to the law of the land as implemented by the Thai justice system, and that is what's happening. As a result of that ongoing process he is currently free so technically he shouldn't be in jail.

I'd just like to know the reasons why. Anyone? Aren't red-haters bothered by not knowing why this person is free? Someone must know.

That is why I used the word "Personally," when I stated that all of the people calling for violence from the red stage should be in jail. (I guess you just overlooked that word )

I accept the court's decision and frankly couldn't be bothered to google when you appear to have full motor control of your hands and could do the research yourself, so it wasn't "can't help" it was simply can't be bothered to I am glad Rubl relieved you of the burden of looking it up

I used the word (indicted) just as advisedly as I used the word "Personally" though perhaps I should have made it a longer clause such as "Nutthawut who has been indicted for terrorism."

Did you enjoy the AT article?

I put precisely the same amount of effort into reading that AT article as you did finding out why Nattawut was released.

I would have thought since you've spent so much time highlighting the clear error of his ways, you'd also be interested in why he was free. But that would take the kind of balanced enquiry that is alien to a prejudiced view.

Nah .. I knew WHY he was free. The courts granted bail. I did follow the links Rubl gave just because he took the effort to do the work I assumed you didn't read the AT article because "that would take the kind of balanced enquiry that is alien to a prejudiced view."

I did read it in the end and then edited my post above accordingly, if you can be bothered to scroll up....

[hanuman1]

I put precisely the same amount of effort into reading that AT article as you did finding out why Nattawut was released.

I would have thought since you've spent so much time highlighting the clear error of his ways, you'd also be interested in why he was free. But that would take the kind of balanced enquiry that is alien to a prejudiced view.

Nah .. I knew WHY he was free. The courts granted bail. I did follow the links Rubl gave just because he took the effort to do the work I assumed you didn't read the AT article because "that would take the kind of balanced enquiry that is alien to a prejudiced view."

Oh my... researching things is fun! It appears that the main source for that article (article ) you are touting may also have a bit of an axe to grind....

http://asiancorrespondent.com/33095/who-is-therdpoum-chaidee/

for those like me who aren't always bothered to click on links, here's an excerpt or two:

[He] is one of the 36 PAD persons who are facing an indictment on terrorism offences for the airport seizure – he is also being sued by Thai Airways over the airport seizure. He has repeatedly appeared on the PAD stage.

He is also one of the 24 party executives of the New Politics Party, the PAD’s official political party. He also travels overseas with other PAD leaders to promote the PAD agenda. For example, he and 5 other senior PAD persons/leaders travelled to the US in 2009 to promote PAD and the New Politics Party.

Hope I haven't broken any quoting laws.

You're good at discrediting authors of evidence that goes against your bias, not so good in the opposite direction.

It appears sometimes you believe the word of a 'terrorist who should be in jail', and sometimes you don't, as fits your agenda.

Oh, and by the way, I withdraw my earlier assessment that the article should be taken into consideration. I wonder how many other TV members have been fooled by such articles over the months.

Edited June 22, 2011 by hanuman1

[Siripon]

Tomorrow Suthep will talk about the role of the black shirts and the secret code of 'shocked'which led to the torchings of buildings last May.

Korbsak will talk about the failure of the talks between the government and the red shirts on March 28 last year when Apisit offered an election in November - Thaksin apparently said,' If that's the case, what is there in it for me?'

Khun Chuan and Apisit will talk about the way forward.