Proper Way To Pray Before The Lord Buddha

[RickThai]

As a relative novice to Buddhism, I've noticed that people seem to follow certain patterns when praying to Buddha. These patterns almost always involve kneeling, or sitting with legs folded, and a wai. Sometimes, the individuals hold burning incense, or flowers in their clasped hands. Sometimes, they bend down and touch the ground and then return to their original position.

My question is what is the general protocol (for like of a better word), to follow when paying homage to Buddha?

Thanks for your help.

RickThai

PS. I meant 'pray', not 'pay' in the original topic name. Oops/

Edited June 22, 2011 by RickThai

[fabianfred]

What you are referring to is called prostrating.

The five-point prostration (head, hands & knees) starts with kneeling and with the hands in the Thai Wai position at the chest, called in Pali Anjali..... then the hands come up to the head with thumbs touching the nose, called Wantaa .... then you bend down keeping the hands together until they are about to touch the floor when they part and are placed flat upon the floor just wide enough for the head to come and touch the floor between them. At this point the forearms should be in line with the knees and with the elbows touching the knees. This position is called Aphiwaa. When done together by a large group one person calls out the Anjali, Wantaa, Aphiwaa so that all do it together which looks nicer than all bobbing up and down individually. This is repeated three times to p[ay respects to the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha.

Buddhists do not pray......The Buddha is not our version of God.....instead we pay respects to our greatest teacher. It is merituous to pay respect to those who deserve respect.....parents, teachers, elderly, monks etc.

[bina]

titled changed from 'pay' to 'pray' although with some cynicism 'pray' would also have worked (tamboon, etc)

bina

[lannarebirth]

The Buddha is not a deity but is a great teacher. I'm not sure pray is the right word, but when I have occasion to "communicate" with him I usually thank him for the journey he helped set me on. Gratitude is always the main subject matter of my monologues . I am aware that some Thais don't see it that way and do pray for blessings of one kind or another, but that has never felt right to me.

[IMA_FARANG]

I was introduced to Buddhisim many years ago in Vietnam, and they used the Chinese style of showing respect to Buddha there.

They approached the Buddha statue with two or three sticks of burning insence in their clasped and open hands.

When they got close to the Buddha statue they bowed their heads and raised the incense above their head in front of them.

Then they straightened up, and lowered the incense still clasped in the open hands down to he center of their chest until their thumbs touched thier chest. (In China this center chest spot is called Hsien, or the center, where by tradition the center of one's being or essence is located. Hsien is thought of as the center of the upper body.)

They repeated the bowing and raising of the incense sticks above their head and the straightening up and lowering of the incsene to the center of their chest 3 or 4 times.

Finally hey would take a step forward, and place the burning incene into a container in front of the Buddha statue, where there was always a container for the incence sticks.

Then they would take a step backward, and bow towards the Buddha statue.

But I'm sure fabienfred as a Thai Buddhist monk knows the Thai method and what I just discribed is a Vietnamese-Chinese method of showing respect for the Buddha.

Maybe the description I gave of it sound awkward, but if you saw it actually done you would see how natural and respectful it really is.

Edited June 23, 2011 by IMA_FARANG

[RickThai]

Thank you all for sharing your knowledge with me. fabianfred and IMA_FARONG, I want to especially thank the both of you for giving me such practical knowledge. Now, when I pay respect to the Lord Buddha, I know not to mix the two different styles.

When I honor Buddha, I do sometimes give thanks for blessings I have received in my life and sometimes ask blessings for others that are in need. I will try and study some more to see if this is consistent with Bhudda's teachings.

I would also welcome comments from those on the forum that are more knowledgeable about these matters.

RickThai

[bankei]

Buddhists do not pray......The Buddha is not our version of God.....instead we pay respects to our greatest teacher. It is merituous to pay respect to those who deserve respect.....parents, teachers, elderly, monks etc.

But Buddhists do pray. To many, if not most?, Thais the Buddha is some sort of cosmic granter of wishes. In Ayuthaya there is even a large reclining Buddha who is prayed to for business related wishes.

[khaowong1]

Buddhists do not pray......The Buddha is not our version of God.....instead we pay respects to our greatest teacher. It is merituous to pay respect to those who deserve respect.....parents, teachers, elderly, monks etc.

But Buddhists do pray. To many, if not most?, Thais the Buddha is some sort of cosmic granter of wishes. In Ayuthaya there is even a large reclining Buddha who is prayed to for business related wishes.

I would say pretty much MOST. I would also mention, that there are a very large number of Buddhist monks who also believe that Buddha is up in heaven somewhere, sitting on his throne or lotus pad, just waiting to fulfill prayers for anything prayed for. I know I'm going to catch heck for this statement, but go spend some time in a temple and see for yourselves.

Edited June 26, 2011 by khaowong1

[djvolak]

And is it not each persons option to have their own version of paying respect be it praying or some other form of respect? If you wish to ask for something in a prayer or ask for help for others that is your choice to do in any religious circumstance I can think of. What is right in your heart is right in this world. Just my 2 baht!

[manarak]

What you are referring to is called prostrating.

The five-point prostration (head, hands & knees) starts with kneeling and with the hands in the Thai Wai position at the chest, called in Pali Anjali..... then the hands come up to the head with thumbs touching the nose, called Wantaa .... then you bend down keeping the hands together until they are about to touch the floor when they part and are placed flat upon the floor just wide enough for the head to come and touch the floor between them. At this point the forearms should be in line with the knees and with the elbows touching the knees. This position is called Aphiwaa. When done together by a large group one person calls out the Anjali, Wantaa, Aphiwaa so that all do it together which looks nicer than all bobbing up and down individually. This is repeated three times to p[ay respects to the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha.

Buddhists do not pray......The Buddha is not our version of God.....instead we pay respects to our greatest teacher. It is merituous to pay respect to those who deserve respect.....parents, teachers, elderly, monks etc.

all please read this again and again

no god, no prayer, no blessing...

Edited June 26, 2011 by manarak

[BaronCasey]

And is it not each persons option to have their own version of paying respect be it praying or some other form of respect? If you wish to ask for something in a prayer or ask for help for others that is your choice to do in any religious circumstance I can think of. What is right in your heart is right in this world. Just my 2 baht!

I agree – normally, it is perfectlyacceptable and natural for many people to have a relationship with a powergreater than themselves and interact with this ‘higher power’ or ‘god’ in themanner that they find most suits their personal interpretations and needs.

I also recognise that what manarak hasposted as “no god, no prayer, no blessing” is totally correct and in-line withBuddhist teachings. And that therefore, to wander from this, is detrimentalfrom the overall aim of on-going development of enlightenment.

But, of the five realms of existence, (onlyone of which is flesh and bone), one is clearly translated and presented as‘gods’ (plural).

When Thai lay-people have used the term‘prayer’ in broken English conversation to me, I’ve historically accepted thisas their term for reciting mantras. But I’ve often wondered, and guessed, thatsome prayer is also going on, not necessarily to Buddha himself, but perhaps tobeings in the some of the other realms of existence even though they accept theimage Buddha as the portal for this.

And when it comes to blessings, it’scommonplace to see Thai’s request them - play the shut-the-boxdice game with any bar girl and if she is one throw away from winning (usuallymoney!) they’ll regularly make a light hearted reference to Buddha when shakingthe dice to make them come up with the lucky numbers. And, if that’s not prayerseeking a blessing/reward, I don’t know what is!

I’d like to hear more thoughts on this, becauseit’s certainly not clear to me.

[bina]

many thais will also do a quicky version w/o the prostrating part: the three sticks of lit inscense held to the forhead and back to face level then again and again three times, then the incense or whatever else (flowers) is placed in the sand box or wherever. the same wei that some people do in the mornings on the way out the door , in the direction of their ghost house in the yard.

as for praying, i have tried so many times to find out if my husband is praying or just talking to himself i.e. working things out for himself when he 'wei phra'... he scoffs at most of the people here (a fairly religious jewish area surrounding our kibbutz) that they believe there is some god floating in the air just waiting to swoop down and recscue a person from a car accident or disease (as many people here do believe); on the other hand, he has fits if he sees someone has put their feet up on the dash of the car (what most kids do here, when sitting in the front seat) cause it might cause the car to crash.

sometimes he will wei phra and i willa sk him what he was wanting to do- he says he was wishing for success in a particular business thing, or help to make more money.

he doesnt wei phra often. and there is no pattern as to when and why he does it. he also doesnt include me. when i asked him why, he says that if we went to a wat, we would wei phra together, but at home, everyone does what he/she wants 'freestyle' as thais say. i.e. every person's reasoning behind what they do is their own matter and no one elses'. his mother is an animist in the old tradition of praying to tree spirits etc. he himself is nto interested in them, nor does he reallyknow what his mother is doing or why .

there is no set rule really on how to wei phra apart from the prostration , most of the thai workers here have makeshift alters with no buddha, only amulets, a picture of the king, or some monk torn off a calendar, most do not have inscesnce nor flowers, or have flowers but no candes, so they do with what they have. and no one seems to discuss with anyone else what how or why they do what they do. every person's business is their own. which in this country, is the opposite. everyone is alwasy watching how others are doing a praticular prayer, dress code, food laws etc, and will comment.

it seems the thais use the whole thing as really praying/wishing for 'higher interference' in help for practical matters, rather like the virgin mary in s. america and other aareas of the world: please make my child better, please help me win the lotto, please help me through first day of work.

anybody hwo is looking for pure theravada buddhism wont find it among most thai for sure anf probably not among too many monks either, at least among the younger set.

just to add to the confusion.

bina

israel

[rockyysdt]

I'd like to hear more thoughts on this, because it's certainly not clear to me.

I've witnessed regular prayer similar to what a Christian may perform.

On knees with hands clasped as in prayer with head bowed down to the floor or pillow.

Prayer was directed to the Buddha, requesting good luck for family members, a better life for oneself and for specific things to occur.

Exactly as a western child would do.

[MarkBKK]

What you are referring to is called prostrating.

The five-point prostration (head, hands & knees) starts with kneeling and with the hands in the Thai Wai position at the chest, called in Pali Anjali..... then the hands come up to the head with thumbs touching the nose, called Wantaa .... then you bend down keeping the hands together until they are about to touch the floor when they part and are placed flat upon the floor just wide enough for the head to come and touch the floor between them. At this point the forearms should be in line with the knees and with the elbows touching the knees. This position is called Aphiwaa. When done together by a large group one person calls out the Anjali, Wantaa, Aphiwaa so that all do it together which looks nicer than all bobbing up and down individually. This is repeated three times to p[ay respects to the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha.

Buddhists do not pray......The Buddha is not our version of God.....instead we pay respects to our greatest teacher. It is merituous to pay respect to those who deserve respect.....parents, teachers, elderly, monks etc.

all please read this again and again

no god, no prayer, no blessing...

You are, of course, quite correct. But may I add that Buddhist monks do not smoke, drink, have sex with women or solicit alms for next week's winning lottery numbers. No criticism of (or offence to) anyone intended, nor, I hope, taken. I too, believe it or not, am far from perfect, but I do try to improve myself and not lecture others. We live in a curious (curioser and curioser) world, where some things do not make immediate sense.

[RickThai]

Only by getting lost in the fog, can you learn to see clearly.

Thanks for the fog (smile).

[MarkBKK]

Only by getting lost in the fog, can you learn to see clearly.

Thanks for the fog (smile).

I think I ought to add (in case there's any confusion ... as there was in my mind when I re-read my post) that when I said ''but I do try to improve myself and not lecture others'', I was in no way referring to manarak's post when he said ''all please read this again and again''. That was sound advice, and most definitely not ''lecturing''.

Reason for edit: I've just noticed that I am no longer the neighbour of the beast. I have the mark of the beast. Wow. I now have to never post ever again so I can forever remain on post No 666 ...

Edited June 28, 2011 by MarkBKK

[Jawnie]

I am a Mahayana/Vajayana Buddhist, following the Tibetan tradition. It has a full prostration, which is to lay out completely flat on the floor. This is usually done privately or when there is room, but typically not done at wats. I go to wats in Bkk because praying, making offerings, and performing prostrations in front of an image or representation of the Buddha generates merit, regardless of the particular time, place or form one follows. When I go to wats, I do the Tibetan short-form style prostration.

The short form is done by placing the hands together at the heart in the same manner as a wei. Then touch the hands to the top of the head/forehead, then throat, then heart. After that, going down on all-fours (hands / knees on floor), and touch the forehead to the floor. Stand up straight, returning the hands to the chest. That's the short-form, Tibetan style. It's okay to do anywhere. You can take refugee as you do this: Buddha, Dharma, Sangha as you touch each point.

I like to go to a wat where I can perform circumambulations (walk around) of the Buddha statue - this is yet another form of offering and respect, which also creates merit.

Motivation is important. Because I am a Mahayana Buddhist, that tradition includes the idea of serving and benefiting all sentient beings. When I go to wat and offer flowers, incense, and gold leaf, I do so on behalf of all sentient beings, especially those in the hell realms. I make the offerings of incense, flowers, and gold for all those who are not able to - it is as a proxy for them; they can't do but may benefit from the merit. Then, as I perform the three prostrations, I image the merit that is generated going back to the Buddhas, while at the same time, I ask the Buddhas to please liberate all beings in the hell realms. As I perform the prostrations, I imagine this is happening and by end of the third prostration, I imagine that all the hell realms have been emptied by the power of the Buddhas. I then perform three circumambulations as an offering to the Buddha.

This is part of the Mahayana style of prostrations and prayer at wats or temples.

[RickThai]

I am a Mahayana/Vajayana Buddhist, following the Tibetan tradition. It has a full prostration, which is to lay out completely flat on the floor. This is usually done privately or when there is room, but typically not done at wats. I go to wats in Bkk because praying, making offerings, and performing prostrations in front of an image or representation of the Buddha generates merit, regardless of the particular time, place or form one follows. When I go to wats, I do the Tibetan short-form style prostration.

The short form is done by placing the hands together at the heart in the same manner as a wei. Then touch the hands to the top of the head/forehead, then throat, then heart. After that, going down on all-fours (hands / knees on floor), and touch the forehead to the floor. Stand up straight, returning the hands to the chest. That's the short-form, Tibetan style. It's okay to do anywhere. You can take refugee as you do this: Buddha, Dharma, Sangha as you touch each point.

I like to go to a wat where I can perform circumambulations (walk around) of the Buddha statue - this is yet another form of offering and respect, which also creates merit.

Motivation is important. Because I am a Mahayana Buddhist, that tradition includes the idea of serving and benefiting all sentient beings. When I go to wat and offer flowers, incense, and gold leaf, I do so on behalf of all sentient beings, especially those in the hell realms. I make the offerings of incense, flowers, and gold for all those who are not able to - it is as a proxy for them; they can't do but may benefit from the merit. Then, as I perform the three prostrations, I image the merit that is generated going back to the Buddhas, while at the same time, I ask the Buddhas to please liberate all beings in the hell realms. As I perform the prostrations, I imagine this is happening and by end of the third prostration, I imagine that all the hell realms have been emptied by the power of the Buddhas. I then perform three circumambulations as an offering to the Buddha.

This is part of the Mahayana style of prostrations and prayer at wats or temples.

Jawnie,

Thank you for providing me with more insight into the customs and traditions of Buddhism.

In peace,

RickThai

[RickThai]

With Deepest Respect To All,

I hope not to seem argumentative, especially to those with much more knowledge and experience in Buddhism than myself, but in regards to "praying" to the Lord Budddha, I found the following from the Sun-lun mediation site that fabianfred so kindly made available for others:

PARIKA¥

Namo Tassa Bhagavato Arahato SammÈsambuddhassa.

(Repeat Namo . . . . . SammÈsambuddhassa three times)

If I have committed any evil physical deeds (large or small),

any evil verbal deeds (large or small), any evil mental deeds (large

or small), against the Lord Buddha, the Dhamma and the SaÑghÈ,

my Parents, Teachers and all Sentient Beings from the beginning

of SaÑsarÈ up to the present moment, then I bow down and pray

for forgiveness for having done even one small evil deeds against

any Living Being.

Exalted Buddha during the duration of this meditation session

I donate my Five KhandhÈs for the purpose of attaining NibbÈna.

Venerable Sun Lun Gu Kyaung Sayadaw during the duration

of this meditation session I donate my Five KhandhÈs for the

purpose of attaining NibbÈna.

May all Beings who are subject to Rebirth in the 31 States of

SaÑsarÈ be happy. (Repeat this three times)

I share this merit with all the Beings in the 31 States. Please

share in my merit by calling SÈdhu.

I wish to share in all meritorious deeds done by good Beings,

SÈdhu, SÈdhu, SÈdhu!

This seems to indicate to me that perhaps "praying" can be (and has been) part of paying respect to the Lord Buddha.

Or am I just getting myself more confused?

RickThai

[pete66]

What you are referring to is called prostrating.

The five-point prostration (head, hands & knees) starts with kneeling and with the hands in the Thai Wai position at the chest, called in Pali Anjali..... then the hands come up to the head with thumbs touching the nose, called Wantaa .... then you bend down keeping the hands together until they are about to touch the floor when they part and are placed flat upon the floor just wide enough for the head to come and touch the floor between them. At this point the forearms should be in line with the knees and with the elbows touching the knees. This position is called Aphiwaa. When done together by a large group one person calls out the Anjali, Wantaa, Aphiwaa so that all do it together which looks nicer than all bobbing up and down individually. This is repeated three times to p[ay respects to the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha.

Buddhists do not pray......The Buddha is not our version of God.....instead we pay respects to our greatest teacher. It is merituous to pay respect to those who deserve respect.....parents, teachers, elderly, monks etc.

When returning from the "Aphiwaa" to kneeling, do the hands go back to the chest (Anjali) position, or just to the "Wantaa"? In other words, if I prostrate three times, should my hands go back to the chest three times, or just once at the end?

[Jawnie]

The folded palms return the the chest each time. Each prostration begins and ends with the hands at the chest. If you are counting prostrations, that's the point at which one has completed one prostration.

What you are referring to is called prostrating.

The five-point prostration (head, hands & knees) starts with kneeling and with the hands in the Thai Wai position at the chest, called in Pali Anjali..... then the hands come up to the head with thumbs touching the nose, called Wantaa .... then you bend down keeping the hands together until they are about to touch the floor when they part and are placed flat upon the floor just wide enough for the head to come and touch the floor between them. At this point the forearms should be in line with the knees and with the elbows touching the knees. This position is called Aphiwaa. When done together by a large group one person calls out the Anjali, Wantaa, Aphiwaa so that all do it together which looks nicer than all bobbing up and down individually. This is repeated three times to p[ay respects to the Buddha, Dhamma and Sangha.

Buddhists do not pray......The Buddha is not our version of God.....instead we pay respects to our greatest teacher. It is merituous to pay respect to those who deserve respect.....parents, teachers, elderly, monks etc.

When returning from the "Aphiwaa" to kneeling, do the hands go back to the chest (Anjali) position, or just to the "Wantaa"? In other words, if I prostrate three times, should my hands go back to the chest three times, or just once at the end?

Edited July 15, 2011 by Jawnie

[bankei]

I like to go to a wat where I can perform circumambulations (walk around) of the Buddha statue - this is yet another form of offering and respect, which also creates merit.

Hello Jawnie

How does walking around a statue create merit?

I have tried to releive my hunger by reciting a recipe book, but it doesn't work. Maybe I should try circumambulating it?

Bankei

[Jawnie]

Rather than circumambulating a recipe book, you should cook something and eat it.

I like to go to a wat where I can perform circumambulations (walk around) of the Buddha statue - this is yet another form of offering and respect, which also creates merit.

Hello Jawnie

How does walking around a statue create merit?

I have tried to releive my hunger by reciting a recipe book, but it doesn't work. Maybe I should try circumambulating it?

Bankei

[camerata]

I had the opportunity to ask an educated Thai exactly what she was "praying" the other day and she repeated the whole thing for me. It turned out to be the standard Three Refuges in Pali and a loving kindness meditation (in Thai) directed towards her family.

[Xangsamhua]

Directing metta thoughts to those who need them, including yourself when necessary, seems a reasonable thing to do. Who knows? They may be effective.

Not much good asking the Buddha, or the gods of the thirty-three heavens for favours. Or putting your faith in leaders and governments for that matter.

I suggest that the only reliable source of support or advancement is yourself, i.e. your ability to respond to events and situations rationally, in accordance with reality.

However, many people do not have the confidence to rely on their own resources, intellectual or emotional, so the ability to resolve problems or attain desired goals is projected onto god-like figures or entities. Maybe that falls short of perfection, but if one prays for something wholesome or harmless, then I think we should sympathize with the petitioner and not come down too heavily on him or her for putting faith in gods or buddhas.

Where a petitioner prays for the destruction of his or her enemies or the confounding of his or her business competitors, then it is something vicious and should be confronted. However, even religious philosophies based on rationalism and self-reliance have been known to justify militarism, racism and oppression. Japanese Zen in the 30s and 40s is an example.

[chutai]

As has already been mentioned, in Buddhism there is no external deity nothing outside of ourselves that doesn't resonate with with all phenomena according to the causes we make make. When we pray we are only doing to so to strengthen our resolve , compassion , or anything else that leads us to realise that there is no Buddha that exists apart from within ourselves. As one teacher puts it: "A human revolution (transformation of mind) in a single individual will enable the change in the destiny of all human kind." It is that profound. It's really a case of taking personal responsibility for our own actions. No that there's anything bad in prostration anymore than there is in a wai. If it's a means of showing sincere respect , then fine. But no ritual is in itself any more than , at best, a symbol of what lies within.

[weary]

anybody hwo is looking for pure theravada buddhism wont find it among most thai for sure anf probably not among too many monks either, at least among the younger set.

What exactly is "pure theravada buddhism"? I am not sure, but I believe it could be right here, in each moment.

[chutai]

anybody hwo is looking for pure theravada buddhism wont find it among most thai for sure anf probably not among too many monks either, at least among the younger set.

What exactly is "pure theravada buddhism"? I am not sure, but I believe it could be right here, in each moment.

Perhaps, "pure theravada" is akin to when the root cause of enlightenment is no longer found in the murky waters of life ?

As in a pile of rubbish cast by the side of a highway a lotus will grow clean