Bars In Pattaya!

[dan060975]

Hi

I have been considering investing in a bar in pattaya for quite a while now, but there are some questions i can't seem to get answers for !!!!!!

1) i hear the police come for tea money, is this weekly or monthly & how much do they request????

2) I hear the mafia also pay u a visit for money ???? if so how much do they request

3) I know a foreign person can not own more than 49% of the leasehold ,,,, can you go into partnership in already established bar without being married to a thai as not ready for that yet!!!

Thanx in advance!!!!

[hopeless]

Hi mate, your best bet is to go find a Farang owner of a bar and have a chat with him, Soi 7 and 8 have many English guys, I had a brief chat with a couple of them and it sounds like you have to pay some knd of tax if you have girls working there.

I too have the same idea as you, im currently saving up enough cash to buy an apartment and a bar. Hopefully ill be ready this time next year.

Ive seen the pattaya people news about mafia collecting cash, then the cops busted them, but all the people ive spoken with havnt had this experience

Good luck!

[dan060975]

Hi mate,  your best bet is to go find a Farang owner of a bar and have a chat with him, Soi 7 and 8 have many English guys, I had a brief chat with a couple of them and it sounds like you have to pay some knd of tax if you have girls working there.

I too have the same idea as you,  im currently saving up enough cash to buy an apartment and a bar.  Hopefully ill be ready this time next year.

Ive seen the pattaya people news about mafia collecting cash, then the cops busted them, but all the people ive spoken with havnt had this experience

Good luck!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thanx for that i go back on 10th Dec for a month so i will have to do some talking etc

thanx again mate

[Digger]

Hi

I have been considering investing in a bar in pattaya for quite a while now, but there are some questions i can't seem to get answers for !!!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know people who own % of bars but not the majority. Of those I cant think of any that would do it again and they play no active part in the running of the place. One of the biggest concerns is the legitimacy of expenses by the controlling partner or front man. Perhaps something to think about if your considering acquiring a share.

Incidentally, I have my own business (not a bar) and I am staggered at what my accounts look like in comparison to what is the actual state of the business. Audits tell you want the boss wants them to say in small companies, particularly cash orientated ones. Do not rely on any audited statements to get a true picture of a private Thai company. Also pay scant regard to claims that lower profits, non eligable tax invoices etc, all go towards reducing profits. In a properly run business, depreciation and tax invoices are the right way to go about reducing your taxes in a legal manner - cooking the books are not the way to go, particularly if you ever want to get a work permit on the basis of those books.

[dan060975]

Hi

I have been considering investing in a bar in pattaya for quite a while now, but there are some questions i can't seem to get answers for !!!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know people who own % of bars but not the majority. Of those I cant think of any that would do it again and they play no active part in the running of the place. One of the biggest concerns is the legitimacy of expenses by the controlling partner or front man. Perhaps something to think about if your considering acquiring a share.

Incidentally, I have my own business (not a bar) and I am staggered at what my accounts look like in comparison to what is the actual state of the business. Audits tell you want the boss wants them to say in small companies, particularly cash orientated ones. Do not rely on any audited statements to get a true picture of a private Thai company. Also pay scant regard to claims that lower profits, non eligable tax invoices etc, all go towards reducing profits. In a properly run business, depreciation and tax invoices are the right way to go about reducing your taxes in a legal manner - cooking the books are not the way to go, particularly if you ever want to get a work permit on the basis of those books.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thanks for that mate

yeah there is a lot to look into !!!!

so when you invest in bar or any other business the the reports per annum profits etc may not be genuine???

so your saying your business looks better on paper than actualy is ????

if this is the case my eyes are starting to open wider !!!!

thankyou

[Firefan]

Yeah Dan that is pretty much the case.

One way to check the biz is by only accepting the return based on TAX payed (as you will get lots of stories about ALL the other income not in the official books). Few people wants to pay MORE tax just to cook the books...

A good accountant hired by you might be worthwhile.

Cheers!

[davethailand]

Hi

I have been considering investing in a bar in pattaya for quite a while now, but there are some questions i can't seem to get answers for !!!!!!

1) i hear the police come for tea money, is this weekly or monthly & how much do they request????

Monthly, weekly or whatever, you don't have to pay any but its wise to take care of them as you CAN call on them if you have a problem and they'll watch your back to a  certain extent, Haggle with them if they want too much.2) I hear the mafia also pay u a visit for money ???? if so how much do they request

Tell them to talk to the policeman that you take care of , I've never come across it.

3) I know a foreign person can not own more than 49% of the leasehold ,,,, can you go into partnership in already established bar without being married to a thai as not ready for that yet!!!

Yes. open your own company, 49% you, 51% thai and make sure the thai shareholders sign their shares back over into your control = YOUR company.

You will need a thai to put on the license.

Thanx in advance!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[dan060975]

Hi

I have been considering investing in a bar in pattaya for quite a while now, but there are some questions i can't seem to get answers for !!!!!!

1) i hear the police come for tea money, is this weekly or monthly & how much do they request????

Monthly, weekly or whatever, you don't have to pay any but its wise to take care of them as you CAN call on them if you have a problem and they'll watch your back to a  certain extent, Haggle with them if they want too much.2) I hear the mafia also pay u a visit for money ???? if so how much do they request

Tell them to talk to the policeman that you take care of , I've never come across it.

3) I know a foreign person can not own more than 49% of the leasehold ,,,, can you go into partnership in already established bar without being married to a thai as not ready for that yet!!!

Yes. open your own company, 49% you, 51% thai and make sure the thai shareholders sign their shares back over into your control = YOUR company.

You will need a thai to put on the license.

Thanx in advance!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanx for that that been a big help /// I take it u own a bar bcos u seem to know the score !!!!! would it be possible to have a chat with you sometime as think would get better answers from yourself rather than contacting agents etc

thanx again

[dan060975]

Yeah Dan that is pretty much the case.

One way to check the biz is by only accepting the return based on TAX payed (as you will get lots of stories about ALL the other income not in the official books). Few people wants to pay MORE tax just to cook the books...

A good accountant hired by you might be worthwhile.

Cheers!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think its going to be the best route to take to get good accountant but you have been a great help so to see proof of the return base on tax paid is a must no se no buy

cheers mate

[davethailand]

Hi

I have been considering investing in a bar in pattaya for quite a while now, but there are some questions i can't seem to get answers for !!!!!!

1) i hear the police come for tea money, is this weekly or monthly & how much do they request????

Monthly, weekly or whatever, you don't have to pay any but its wise to take care of them as you CAN call on them if you have a problem and they'll watch your back to a  certain extent, Haggle with them if they want too much.2) I hear the mafia also pay u a visit for money ???? if so how much do they request

Tell them to talk to the policeman that you take care of , I've never come across it.

3) I know a foreign person can not own more than 49% of the leasehold ,,,, can you go into partnership in already established bar without being married to a thai as not ready for that yet!!!

Yes. open your own company, 49% you, 51% thai and make sure the thai shareholders sign their shares back over into your control = YOUR company.

You will need a thai to put on the license.

Thanx in advance!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanx for that that been a big help /// I take it u own a bar bcos u seem to know the score !!!!! would it be possible to have a chat with you sometime as think would get better answers from yourself rather than contacting agents etc

thanx again

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No probs, i'll help if i can

[britmaveric]

Dave - knows what he's taking about - listen to him. No better place than the Blues Factory!!

Also you need to pick a prime location and something unique would be profitable instead of competing with the 1000 other bars that are alike.

[hopeless]

Like a decent bar that plays decent quality tunes, House and trance.

Then let me come and mix it up!

Pattaya is becoming more popular among younger party goers, look at places like Ibiza and 'Napa. Good club nights are the way forward

[Digger]

Yeah Dan that is pretty much the case.

One way to check the biz is by only accepting the return based on TAX payed (as you will get lots of stories about ALL the other income not in the official books). Few people wants to pay MORE tax just to cook the books...

A good accountant hired by you might be worthwhile.

Cheers!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think its going to be the best route to take to get good accountant but you have been a great help so to see proof of the return base on tax paid is a must no se no buy

cheers mate

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you can find a really good pro-active accountant in Thailand, able to decipher company accounts and come up with a definative due dilligence report, I would be amazed. The point I am making is that a privately held company can choose what to include or exclude in their accounts - the odds are it will be slanted to pay less tax, but you should also be very mindfull of how much legal means are ignored to reduce tax bills. i.e if a bar buys beer and does not get a VAT receipt, you cannot include it in your company expenses. So you might be including the sales correctly and then unable to deduct the actual purchase price of the beer as an expense. Then you have the VAT position to be aware of as well. Equally I would be really surprised if any bar owner is depreciating fit out costs, furniture, equipment for their bar. It is so easy to do and reduces the taxes. Short sited approach is to pay cash, forget the VAT and think your doing well. But then your accounts do not reflect the true position of the bar. Any professional valuer will be looking at cashflow, depreciation and countless other things in valuing a business as a going concern. Equally as a buyer, how much of this are you aware off and what to look for. Unless your using a red hot (read expensive) top flight accounting firm, you will struggle to be able to put a valuation on the business. Having said that neither could the seller, so you might be better of in some respects, but also oblivious to what other gremlins lurk below the surface. i.e unpaid bills, unpaid tax etc - which if you buy a company, means those liabilities will fall to you unless your just buying the assets, name, leasehold or freehold premises, without the obligations of acquiring the company.

[Sunbelt Asia]

I know a foreign person can not own more than 49% of the leasehold ,,,, can you go into partnership in already established bar without being married to a thai as not ready for that yet!!!

If you are an American you can own the bar 100% under the Amity treaty. If you are an other nationality other than Thai, you can have 49% ownership but more important using a good lawyer with the correct strategies, you'll be protected by having control of your investment. (Were not talking about nominees with sign over shares to obtain that control either... which is illegal)

i hear the police come for tea money, is this weekly or monthly & how much do they request????

Very large club pay 100,000 Baht per month. Most pay 2,000- 5,000 Baht per month.

I hear the mafia also pay u a visit for money ???? if so how much do they request

I know most bar owners and not one states they ever were visited by the mafia. Seems to be an urban legend.

This seems to confirm this. "Farang Business And The Mafia"

http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/Weekly/weekly188.htm

As for doing the due diligence on a bar. I've represented sellers that have had books done on a monthly basis by Price Waterhouse( Paying 80,000 Baht per month and 150,000 Baht for the audit) and on the other hand most sellers that have the books done internal which consist of a dog eared notebook of the daily sales. The key then is to look at the invoices of the alcohol purchases, do they match up with the daily sales. ( cost of sale and sale price) Bigger clubs will have credit card machines.. what % is claimed as cash and what % as credit cards?

If it is not our listing, we can perform due diligence. Our professional fee is 5,000 Baht per million Baht in acquisition price with a minimum professional fee of 25,000 Baht.

www.sunbeltasia.com

www.lawyer.th.com

[johnnyk]

This is the tip of the iceberg.

The real &lt;deleted&gt; comes after you buy it and you have staff to deal with...theft, fighting, laziness, incompetence, stupidity etc etc.

Go to soi 7/8 as someone said and talk to Gary at Alamo Bar, Hammer at Cherry Bar or Stuart at Number One bar in the soi that joins 7 and 8.

Also, davethailand at Blues Factory, a guy called torrenova who has a bar near Wanking St. and a guy called sunnyvalentine.

You can find torrenova and sunnyvalentine on www.pattayatalk.com by doing a search.

Edited October 17, 2005 by johnnyk

[davethailand]

This is the tip of the iceberg.

The real &lt;deleted&gt; comes after you buy it and you have staff to deal with...theft, fighting, laziness, incompetence, stupidity etc etc.

Go to soi 7/8 as someone said and talk to Gary at Alamo Bar, Hammer at Cherry Bar or Stuart at Number One bar in the soi that joins 7 and 8.

Also, davethailand at Blues Factory, a guy called torrenova who has a bar near Wanking St. and a guy called sunnyvalentine.

You can find torrenova and sunnyvalentine on www.pattayatalk.com by doing a search.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The real &lt;deleted&gt; comes after you buy it and you have staff to deal with...theft, fighting, laziness, incompetence, stupidity etc etc.

How very true

[hopeless]

Dan, just got yr email mate.

Do u have msn? if so we'll chat on there

[email protected] - dont worry everyone, we arnt the same guy

promise!

[jrincon17]

Dan, just got yr email mate.

Do u have msn? if so we'll chat on there

[email protected] - dont worry everyone, we arnt the same guy

promise!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Americans can own abar fully , with no thai ownership ? Is this true ?

[hopeless]

Dan, just got yr email mate.

Do u have msn? if so we'll chat on there

[email protected] - dont worry everyone, we arnt the same guy

promise!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Americans can own abar fully , with no thai ownership ? Is this true ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I havnt got a 'bakerloo!'

[Sunbelt Asia]

Americans can own abar fully , with no thai ownership ? Is this true ?

Yes. Couple bars in the Nana area, I will use as a reference...

One bar in the Nana Plaza is owned by two Americans with a limited company with no Thai ownership (The two Americans are owning 99.995% of the shares) with work permits. They are paying taxes along with Vat. Imagine that, you can be legal owning a bar in Thailand !

Another Lounge on Sukhumvit Rd is an American owned club (with no Thai ownership) and is legal...paying tax, have a work permit, etc.

www.lawyer.th.com

www.sunbeltasia.com

[johnh101]

Like a decent bar that plays decent quality tunes, House and trance.

Then let me come and mix it up!

Pattaya is becoming more popular among younger party goers, look at places like Ibiza and 'Napa.  Good club nights are the way forward

[HarryHacker]

Americans can own abar fully , with no thai ownership ? Is this true ?

Yes. Couple bars in the Nana area, I will use as a reference...

One bar in the Nana Plaza is owned by two Americans with a limited company with no Thai ownership (The two Americans are owning 99.995% of the shares) with work permits. They are paying taxes along with Vat. Imagine that, you can be legal owning a bar in Thailand !

Another Lounge on Sukhumvit Rd is an American owned club (with no Thai ownership) and is legal...paying tax, have a work permit, etc.

www.lawyer.th.com

www.sunbeltasia.com

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...can a business be owned by a yank with 51% and a Brit with 49%?

[Sunbelt Asia]

...can a business be owned by a yank with 51% and a Brit with 49%?

Yes, as long as the American(s) hold 51%.

The other shareholders can be any nationality.

The Board of Directors has to be made up of a majority American or Thai.

www.lawyer.th.com

[HarryHacker]

...can a business be owned by a yank with 51% and a Brit with 49%?

Yes, as long as the American(s) hold 51%.

The other shareholders can be any nationality.

The Board of Directors has to be made up of a majority American or Thai.

www.lawyer.th.com

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cheers, u learn something new every day!

[Judge]

...can a business be owned by a yank with 51% and a Brit with 49%?

Yes, as long as the American(s) hold 51%.

The other shareholders can be any nationality.

The Board of Directors has to be made up of a majority American or Thai.

www.lawyer.th.com

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mr. Sunbelt, I heard that the treaty that allowed Ameicans to fully own a business here had expired.

Has it been extended?

I might need your services if so.