Relatives Of Victims Say No Amnesty

[Lite Beer]

Relatives of victims say no amnesty

By Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation on Sunday

Call on next government to investigate last year's violence

A group of relatives of those killed or injured by the military suppression of red-shirt protesters in April and May of last year issued a statement yesterday calling for the next government to set up a truly impartial and accountable fact-finding committee to determine who were behind the deaths of 92 people in Bangkok.

The group, calling itself "Relatives of April-May 2010 Martyrs", said at a press conference at Thammasat University that they wanted people responsible for the deaths and injuries to be identified and brought to justice.

It stated that next government must not "issue any amnesty" to those who committed "crimes against the Thai people".

Their third and last demand was for better compensation and care to those affected or left behind as well as justice for those still "unfairly detained," said Banjerd Fungklinchan, who lost his son, and spoke on behalf of the group.

The group also condemned the government-appointed Truth for Reconciliation Commission (TRC), whose chairman, Kanit na Nakorn, was hand-picked by Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva for allegedly being a tool to "buy time and give political legitimacy" to the government, while not having any direct participation from the people.

In a symposium organised by the People's Centre for Fact and Justice that followed, six relatives of those affected by the event spoke, with some criticising Abhisit's alleged exploitation of the issue during the political campaign at CentralWorld on Thursday during which Abhisit and deputy PM Suthep Thaugsuban, stated regret about the incidents last year.

"Why are you pretending to be shedding your tears now while campaigning for election? What good will it do?" asked Tanyakamol Kamnoi, who lost her younger brother, Kriangkrai Kamnoi, on April 10. She vowed to pursue the case even if it takes "10 or 100 years" to find out who killed her brother.

Varanit Asawasirimankong, whose husband became paralysed after three bullets were fired into his back while going out to eat, said that aside from the failure to find the culprit so far, she and her family have had to struggle hard to make both ends meet with little help.

"I wish I could forget it. My husband is 50 something. I don't know who did it but I have regrets and often cry," she said.

Others like Suwan Puttajak, whose wife was shot and maimed after being shot near Bangkok's Bon Kai area, said his wife sometimes says, "I would rather die" as things had become very difficult economically.

Dorkchan Thanuthong, a farmer from Ubon Ratchathani province whose husband has been charged with alleged arson at the provincial city hall and violating the emergency decree said she really had no clue when her husband would be released on bail.

"I don't know how many more years I'll have to wait," she said, adding that the maximum penalty that her husband faced was a death sentence.

All the relatives of those affected and spoke said they had never received any letter of condolences from the prime minister.

Nation TV reporter Noppatjak Attanon earlier wrote a recent article on prachatai.com online news-site saying that when he wanted to interview the PM and asked why did the PM not apologise he was prevented from doing so and was told by the PM's media team that for the PM to apologise would be tantamount to admitting that it was Abhisit's fault.

-- The Nation 2011-06-26

[Buchholz]

Can we presume these Red Shirt families no longer support Pheu Thai Party as it intends to seek amnesty?

The article also highlights the continued neglect of the rank and file Red Shirts that remain in jail by the Red Shirt leadership.

Donors Unhappy About Money Not Reaching Red Shirt Victims

Ironically, it has been the current government that has provided more support and bail for these street-level Red Shirts than the Red Shirt leadership itself.

Now that these same Red Shirt leaders are now Pheu Thai Party bigwigs, it is yet another impetus for these Red Shirt families to abandon the Pheu Thai Party in the same manner that the Pheu Thai Party has abandoned them.

Many Thai Red Shirts Abandoned By Their Leaders

No improvement on the above thread since November.

.

Edited June 26, 2011 by Buchholz

[timekeeper]

the reds were involved in an illegal protest

they were committing a crime just by being there

they were harbouring men in black soldier killing murderers in their midst

they celebrated Sae Daeng as leader of these mercenaries

they want compensation for being criminals?

i disagreed when they got money before but asking for more now is taking the piss

they shouldn't have been there, i would not give them or their families, one satang............

Edited June 26, 2011 by timekeeper

[OzMick]

"People's Centre for Fact and Justice" - catchy name, I wonder who that's funded by? Quite possibly a private organisation in Dubai.

The road to reconciliation will be long and rocky as long as the main offenders fail to realise that the Abhisit govt had the right to order them to move their protest from it's site which was disrupting the lives and businesses of Bangkok residents, that the use of lethal weapons (and I include slingshots and petrol bombs) negated their claim to "peaceful protest", and that quite a few of those killed were at the hand of the people they support.

They claim to want punishment for the offenders, in a week they will vote for them to give them immunity from prosecution. That alone makes the event more farce than tragedy.

[philw]

the reds were involved in an illegal protest

they were committing a crime just by being there

they were harbouring men in black soldier killing murderers in their midst

they celebrated Sae Daeng as leader of these mercenaries

they want compensation for being criminals?

i disagreed when they got money before but asking for more now is taking the piss

they shouldn't have been there, i would not give them or their families, one satang............

The opening paragraph says it all.

Who can object to an enquiry ??

Instead we have a cover up or more precisely a "let's pretend it never happened...."

Innocent people were killed.

This needs an investigation and proper enquiry.

Why have the Democrats not convened a proper and authoritative enquiry ??

[Buchholz]

All the relatives of those affected and spoke said they had never received any letter of condolences from the prime minister.

How many received any letter of condolences from Red Shirt leaders in whom they were following?

Or were they just abandoned by those in whom they trusted.

Many Thai Red Shirts Abandoned By Their Leaders

One should expect the leadership of one side would be at the forefront of caring for their side, before blaming an oppositional side for not caring for their side.

.

[rixalex]

The opening paragraph says it all.

Who can object to an enquiry ??

Instead we have a cover up or more precisely a "let's pretend it never happened...."

Innocent people were killed.

This needs an investigation and proper enquiry.

Why have the Democrats not convened a proper and authoritative enquiry ??

You are right, there does need to be a proper inquiry, but the truth is, it actually won't make a jot of difference. Any inquiry conducted whilst the Dems are in government, that doesn't declare all these people innocent martyrs, will be dismissed as being biased and unfair by the reds.

[metisdead]

One baiting post removed. Reminder to all:

Please note that due to the high number of defamtory, abusive, insulting, trollish and inflammatory posts that a zero tolerance policy is being implemented until the election.

If you cannot refrain from posting slander, lies, rumors, defamation, insults, trolls or just posting to inflame other members then you will find your posting rights immediately suspended.

Please read the forum rules very carefully before posting as they will be strictly enforced in this forum.

[OzMick]

the reds were involved in an illegal protest

they were committing a crime just by being there

they were harbouring men in black soldier killing murderers in their midst

they celebrated Sae Daeng as leader of these mercenaries

they want compensation for being criminals?

i disagreed when they got money before but asking for more now is taking the piss

they shouldn't have been there, i would not give them or their families, one satang............

The opening paragraph says it all.

Who can object to an enquiry ??

Instead we have a cover up or more precisely a "let's pretend it never happened...."

Innocent people were killed.

This needs an investigation and proper enquiry.

Why have the Democrats not convened a proper and authoritative enquiry ??

Who can object to an enquiry?? Those mentioned in the post. The enquiry is under way (Truth for Reconciliation Commission (TRC), chairman, Kanit na Nakorn) but it is not likely to come out with a finding suitable to the Red Shirts, who believe they were "peaceful protesters slaughtered by the army". That belief is erroneous, but while it persists there will be no satisfaction on their part.

[philw]

The opening paragraph says it all.

Who can object to an enquiry ??

Instead we have a cover up or more precisely a "let's pretend it never happened...."

Innocent people were killed.

This needs an investigation and proper enquiry.

Why have the Democrats not convened a proper and authoritative enquiry ??

You are right, there does need to be a proper inquiry, but the truth is, it actually won't make a jot of difference. Any inquiry conducted whilst the Dems are in government, that doesn't declare all these people innocent martyrs, will be dismissed as being biased and unfair by the reds.

Very pleased that you getting the point.

The fact is that innocents were killed and they deserve that their deaths be properly and impartially investigated and the perpetrators brought to law.

This would probably bring Reds, Government and Army to court and obviously that cannot be allowed to happen by the Dems but possibly a new Gov't might be able.

[timekeeper]

the reds were involved in an illegal protest

they were committing a crime just by being there

they were harbouring men in black soldier killing murderers in their midst

they celebrated Sae Daeng as leader of these mercenaries

they want compensation for being criminals?

i disagreed when they got money before but asking for more now is taking the piss

they shouldn't have been there, i would not give them or their families, one satang............

The opening paragraph says it all.

Who can object to an enquiry ??

Instead we have a cover up or more precisely a "let's pretend it never happened...."

Innocent people were killed.

This needs an investigation and proper enquiry.

Why have the Democrats not convened a proper and authoritative enquiry ??

where were the red innocents in the red revolutionary rally?

they were all criminals just by being there

fruit of the thaksin red poisoned tree......

Edited June 26, 2011 by timekeeper

[DP25]

The group, calling itself "Relatives of April-May 2010 Martyrs", said at a press conference at Thammasat University that they wanted people responsible for the deaths and injuries to be identified and brought to justice.

It stated that next government must not "issue any amnesty" to those who committed "crimes against the Thai people"

Thaksin should be held responsible and no amnesty given.

[philw]

the reds were involved in an illegal protest

they were committing a crime just by being there

they were harbouring men in black soldier killing murderers in their midst

they celebrated Sae Daeng as leader of these mercenaries

they want compensation for being criminals?

i disagreed when they got money before but asking for more now is taking the piss

they shouldn't have been there, i would not give them or their families, one satang............

The opening paragraph says it all.

Who can object to an enquiry ??

Instead we have a cover up or more precisely a "let's pretend it never happened...."

Innocent people were killed.

This needs an investigation and proper enquiry.

Why have the Democrats not convened a proper and authoritative enquiry ??

where were the red innocents in the red revolutionary rally?

they were all criminals just by being there

fruit of the thaksin red poisoned tree......

Yes, of course.

I guess that includes the dead bystanders and medic(s) also.

Never mind the soldiers....

[whybother]

Very pleased that you getting the point.

The fact is that innocents were killed and they deserve that their deaths be properly and impartially investigated and the perpetrators brought to law.

This would probably bring Reds, Government and Army to court and obviously that cannot be allowed to happen by the Dems but possibly a new Gov't might be able.

Do you honestly believe that an "independent enquiry" launched by a PTP government will lay any blame on the reds?

[sirchai]

the reds were involved in an illegal protest

they were committing a crime just by being there

they were harbouring men in black soldier killing murderers in their midst

they celebrated Sae Daeng as leader of these mercenaries

they want compensation for being criminals?

i disagreed when they got money before but asking for more now is taking the piss

they shouldn't have been there, i would not give them or their families, one satang............

To be perfectly honest, they shouldn't get any compensation. All of them got paid for being there, indeed it was a very illegal protest.

The sad thing is that poverty made many of them to do what they'd been told to...............:jap:

[moe666]

A s long as the redshirts get off thats all they care about.

[geriatrickid]

I note the double standard being applied. Surely, there must be some innocent victims here? Non implicated civilians that were in the wrong place at the wrong time?

Many of the people in this thread dismissing the deaths are the first to blame the deaths of non implicated civilians during the 2003 illegal drug campaign on the former PM Thaksin. Yet, no one holds PM Abhisit responsible After all, it was PM Abhisit that was in charge, right?. How odd. Personally, I do not hold the PM responsible as the decision to shoot unarmed non combatants was taken by the military commanders. I believe that some innocent people died, just as some innocent people in 2003 died.

It seems to me that there is quite a loud display of hypocrisy in this thread. If the 2003 campaign was subject to a public inquiry, why will there not be one for the events that saw Thais slaughtered on the streets in 2010?

Edited June 26, 2011 by geriatrickid

[timekeeper]

the reds were involved in an illegal protest

they were committing a crime just by being there

they were harbouring men in black soldier killing murderers in their midst

they celebrated Sae Daeng as leader of these mercenaries

they want compensation for being criminals?

i disagreed when they got money before but asking for more now is taking the piss

they shouldn't have been there, i would not give them or their families, one satang............

The opening paragraph says it all.

Who can object to an enquiry ??

Instead we have a cover up or more precisely a "let's pretend it never happened...."

Innocent people were killed.

This needs an investigation and proper enquiry.

Why have the Democrats not convened a proper and authoritative enquiry ??

where were the red innocents in the red revolutionary rally?

they were all criminals just by being there

fruit of the thaksin red poisoned tree......

Yes, of course.

I guess that includes the dead bystanders and medic(s) also.

Never mind the soldiers....

in anticipation of this kind of response i purposely said ''red innocents'' at a ''red revoltionary rally''

so unless the soldiers, medics, journos were red sympathisers they do not apply and are not included in my generalisation

if you are going to be a critic of my posts at least read and try to fully comprehend what your being critical of ...............

[ianbaggie]

The opening paragraph says it all.

Who can object to an enquiry ??

Instead we have a cover up or more precisely a "let's pretend it never happened...."

Innocent people were killed.

This needs an investigation and proper enquiry.

Why have the Democrats not convened a proper and authoritative enquiry ??

You are right, there does need to be a proper inquiry, but the truth is, it actually won't make a jot of difference. Any inquiry conducted whilst the Dems are in government, that doesn't declare all these people innocent martyrs, will be dismissed as being biased and unfair by the reds.

Very pleased that you getting the point.

The fact is that innocents were killed and they deserve that their deaths be properly and impartially investigated and the perpetrators brought to law.

This would probably bring Reds, Government and Army to court and obviously that cannot be allowed to happen by the Dems but possibly a new Gov't might be able.

I think you weaken your opint with your bias here - the red shirts would no more want the truth to come out than the democrats would. Who is impartial enough to conduct this enquiry - any names you could put forward?

[lannarebirth]

The opening paragraph says it all.

Who can object to an enquiry ??

Instead we have a cover up or more precisely a "let's pretend it never happened...."

Innocent people were killed.

This needs an investigation and proper enquiry.

Why have the Democrats not convened a proper and authoritative enquiry ??

You are right, there does need to be a proper inquiry, but the truth is, it actually won't make a jot of difference. Any inquiry conducted whilst the Dems are in government, that doesn't declare all these people innocent martyrs, will be dismissed as being biased and unfair by the reds.

Very pleased that you getting the point.

The fact is that innocents were killed and they deserve that their deaths be properly and impartially investigated and the perpetrators brought to law.

This would probably bring Reds, Government and Army to court and obviously that cannot be allowed to happen by the Dems but possibly a new Gov't might be able.

I'm not sure where you're from but armies and governments don't go to court as a rule. Not as defendants anyway. Police forces often do and the sooner they are capable of taking over the armies heretofore involvement in "internal security", the better.

[rixalex]

I note the double standard being applied. Surely, there must be some innocent victims here? Non implicated civilians that were in the wrong place at the wrong time?

The only people who the wrong place wrong time applies to are those who had no choice to be there, like soldiers. Most of the rest were there of their own free volition, they knew it was dangerous, the government had told them, repeatedly; the government had been pleading for weeks for them to leave for that reason. They also knew that what they were doing, by being there, was illegal.

[timekeeper]

the reds were involved in an illegal protest

they were committing a crime just by being there

they were harbouring men in black soldier killing murderers in their midst

they celebrated Sae Daeng as leader of these mercenaries

they want compensation for being criminals?

i disagreed when they got money before but asking for more now is taking the piss

they shouldn't have been there, i would not give them or their families, one satang............

To be perfectly honest, they shouldn't get any compensation. All of them got paid for being there, indeed it was a very illegal protest.

The sad thing is that poverty made many of them to do what they'd been told to...............:jap:

good point, i had forgotten they had been paid already

many said they were prepared to die for the cause, so they got their wish

its a pity it was not more of the leaders that were killed and not just the foot soldiers........

[Mrjlh]

Yes, an independent impartial inquiry would be the right thing to do. But you will never achieve it for several reasons:

1. You need a solid operating government to start with. You don't have that now, nor will you for several years due to the constant bickering by children trying to run a country.
   
2. Because two of the party's running for office where involved in the conflict, you will never have impartiality. One will always accuse the other of some cover up or denial of the facts.
   
3. Over time memories fade. Getting the real facts become impossible.
   
4. You will never be able to prove who was the shooter unless you have clear pictures that can identify the culprit except in certain cases where they already have person in custody and have evidence to support the conviction.
   
5. We have clear pictures showing both sides armed and shooting at each other. Yet denial and lack of taking responsibility for anything gets in the way.
   
6. Rubber bullets don't kill, real bullets do. Proving who shot what can only be made by by scientific fact and not assumptions. Forensics can solve the problem but people need to accept the findings. Unfortunately most of the evidence is gone.
   
7. Then one must decide whether to accept circumstantial evidence which we have tons of. Not likely because it falls back in to the vicious circle of denial and taking responsibility.
   

Therefore, solving this issue becomes impossible even on a good day. It's unfortunate people died. It's even more tragic that they may have died for a cause that is only in the minds of a few leaders who have shown no leadership. And we expect the people to vote into office the same people who refuse to take responsibility. Time to let it go and move on as hard as it is to accept. Throwing accusations at each other does not solve to problems of any country, working together does.

Edited June 26, 2011 by Mrjlh

[animatic]

The opening paragraph says it all.

Who can object to an enquiry ??

Instead we have a cover up or more precisely a "let's pretend it never happened...."

Innocent people were killed.

This needs an investigation and proper enquiry.

Why have the Democrats not convened a proper and authoritative enquiry ??

You are right, there does need to be a proper inquiry, but the truth is, it actually won't make a jot of difference. Any inquiry conducted whilst the Dems are in government, that doesn't declare all these people innocent martyrs, will be dismissed as being biased and unfair by the reds.

Very pleased that you getting the point.

The fact is that innocents were killed and they deserve that their deaths be properly and impartially investigated and the perpetrators brought to law.

This would probably bring Reds, Government and Army to court and obviously that cannot be allowed to happen by the Dems but possibly a new Gov't might be able.

A very very small percentage of those killed were actual innocents.

Maybe: the nurse, ambulance attendants, in the wat, a couple of reporters.

The rest knew where they were and what was happening.

They chose to be there.

And if they chose to ignore repeated warnings to leave, they are not innocent.

And they insisted their personal actions were part of a legal protest, when it was plainly stated no longer legal, they are not innocent. They made a choice.

And if they refused to leave, when told it's all over, they are not innocent.

Or refused to leave when they saw violence from their side, they are not innocent.

Or saw war weapons on their side, they are not innocent.

Or saw the barricades and gasline being stocked, they are not innocent.

They made a choice to stay in what clearly looked like a war zone.

Or they heard the calls to burn Bangkok from the stages, they are not innocent.

ie. The number of actual innocent victims is exceedingly small.

The reporters also knew what they were walking into.

A proper inquierly?

Yes good idea, Will it work? No. There is an inquiry, but one side will never believe it,

and will only believe one that matches their stated political goals.

So it is essentially impossible to have a balanced impartial inquiry

agreed on by both sides, because one will only agree if it backs their goals,

and the other only if it backs truth, which does not, by all observations,

match their opponents goals.

And a third group, the military, won't cooperate no matter who's asking. No doubt the military has some simmering anger at being dragged into this by the Reds. And at their soldiers and leaders killed by Black Warriors in the Reds.. And then the repeated attempts to hang them up to dry. So don't expect them to play into the red leaders game plan at any time.

So again, for all the hand wringing, square one has not moved forward.

As to actual perpetrators brought to justice....

ain't gonna happen no matter what group is controlling the government.

Secondly the evidence is not strong enough in 90% or more of cases

to make a real conclusion of hand on gun or order given.

91 cold cases, waiting for no one, with the skills to deal with them, and none of the sides unbiased enough to run a fair inquiry, and added to the fact it will mean nothing, even if it were fair since it will be unaccepted.

Certainly screaming 'murderer 'about the government leaders is a red herring.

It is politically expedient, but truth has nothing to do with it.

Edited June 26, 2011 by animatic

[Ricardo]

The opening paragraph says it all.

Who can object to an enquiry ??

Instead we have a cover up or more precisely a "let's pretend it never happened...."

Innocent people were killed.

This needs an investigation and proper enquiry.

Why have the Democrats not convened a proper and authoritative enquiry ??

You are right, there does need to be a proper inquiry, but the truth is, it actually won't make a jot of difference. Any inquiry conducted whilst the Dems are in government, that doesn't declare all these people innocent martyrs, will be dismissed as being biased and unfair by the reds.

Very pleased that you getting the point.

The fact is that innocents were killed and they deserve that their deaths be properly and impartially investigated and the perpetrators brought to law.

This would probably bring Reds, Government and Army to court and obviously that cannot be allowed to happen by the Dems but possibly a new Gov't might be able.

I agree that there should be a proper inquiry, not too sure who might be viewed as sufficiently impartial, and have the power to get to the bottom of events last year.

But isn't it ironic that the PTP, who should be promising an inquiry, are instead promising a blanket-amnesty. And that PM-Abhisit, who if-guilty might well benefit from that amnesty, is agreeing with the relatives that there should be no amnesty ? I think that says something about his personal-integrity, and also the real purpose of the amnesty, which is clearly to benefit PTP's absent-leader above all else.

The Red-Shirt leaders who ignored the negotiated-settlement, which might have avoided the bloody-mess into which they led their trusting supporters, are likely to escape any consequence of their actions, either via the amnesty or by-consequence of their having meanwhile become MPs, on PTP's party-list. And they have let some of their supporters rot in jail, because it suited them to have these political-martyrs, come election-time.

I wish I shared philw's hope that a new (PTP-led coalition ?) government can do any better, but it is likely that they won't, simply because too many of their own tragic-mistakes would be revealed. Expect an unjust amnesty & gallons of white-wash.

[geriatrickid]

I note the double standard being applied. Surely, there must be some innocent victims here? Non implicated civilians that were in the wrong place at the wrong time?

The only people who the wrong place wrong time applies to are those who had no choice to be there, like soldiers. Most of the rest were there of their own free volition, they knew it was dangerous, the government had told them, repeatedly; the government had been pleading for weeks for them to leave for that reason. They also knew that what they were doing, by being there, was illegal.

That is a facile argument and an example of the double standard being applied. Here are some examples of undisputed incidents;

May 14, Sarayuth Ampan a medical attendant with a city ambulance team,in an officially marked emergency medical services van, emblazoned with “Ambulance” on the front and back was stationed in the parking lot of the Pinnacle Hotel while a late afternoon battle raged near the Bon Kai market. Rescue team leader Theerapat Klomkleng was standing outside the van as soldiers approached. As Theerapat e opened a door to allow an inspection of the ambulance, one soldier shot through the windshield hitting Sarayuth and showering a female medic inside with glass fragments.. Mr. Ampan was not charged with any crimes and was taken to a Thai army hospital where he was cared for and then released. Was this the result of an overzealous soldier that had a lapse in discipline? Only an official inquiry can determine that.

A scene shown on CNN several times is that of singer Krichana Panichpong who you may know as Kampan Bazoo, being shot in the chest. He had gone out on the balcony his 27th floor condominium to try and rescue a friend that had been shot. Krichana resided at the condominium and was basically trapped in the area. His friend died. Neither he nor his friend were combatants. CNN showed the footage along with soldiers that were firing in the direction of the residential condominium. One doesn't know how these two non combatants were shot. Only an official inquiry can determine that.

Canadian cameraman Nelson Rand was shot and wounded. Other journalists were roughed up by what they believed were military personnel. The reports of fellow journalists at the time were that they were being targeted by the military despite wearing journalist identification. Only an official inquiry can determine if journalists were indeed targeted.

The thai military claims that there were terrorists hidden in the unarmed civilians at the protest site. The protestors claim that the military used plainclothes special forces to incite trouble and to target non combatants. Only an official inquiry can determine if the allegations are true.

As such, I believe your argument glosses over some serious events that do indeed merit a proper investigation and an open hearing.

[lungmi]

A very very small percentage of those killed were actual innocents.

Maybe: the nurse, ambulance attendants, in the wat, a couple of reporters.

The rest knew where they were and what was happening.

They chose to be there.

And if they chose to ignore repeated warnings to leave, they are not innocent.

And they insisted their personal actions were part of a legal protest, when it was plainly stated no longer legal, they are not innocent. They made a choice.

And if they refused to leave, when told it's all over, they are not innocent.

Or refused to leave when they saw violence from their side, they are not innocent.

Or saw war weapons on their side, they are not innocent.

Or saw the barricades and gasline being stocked, they are not innocent.

They made a choice to stay in what clearly looked like a war zone.

Or they heard the calls to burn Bangkok from the stages, they are not innocent.

ie. The number of actual innocent victims is exceedingly small.

The reporters also knew what they were walking into.

A proper inquierly?

Yes good idea, Will it work? No. There is an inquiry, but one side will never believe it,

and will only believe one that matches their stated political goals.

So it is essentially impossible to have a balanced impartial inquiry

agreed on by both sides, because one will only agree if it backs their goals,

and the other only if it backs truth, which does not, by all observations,

match their opponents goals.

And a third group, the military, won't cooperate no matter who's asking. No doubt the military has some simmering anger at being dragged into this by the Reds. And at their soldiers and leaders killed by Black Warriors in the Reds.. And then the repeated attempts to hang them up to dry. So don't expect them to play into the red leaders game plan at any time.

So again, for all the hand wringing, square one has not moved forward.

As to actual perpetrators brought to justice....

ain't gonna happen no matter what group is controlling the government.

Secondly the evidence is not strong enough in 90% or more of cases

to make a real conclusion of hand on gun or order given.

91 cold cases, waiting for no one, with the skills to deal with them, and none of the sides unbiased enough to run a fair inquiry, and added to the fact it will mean nothing, even if it were fair since it will be unaccepted.

Certainly screaming 'murderer 'about the government leaders is a red herring.

It is politically expedient, but truth has nothing to do with it.

A clear analysis, I can second it. Experiences in Thailand (21 years) and reading International Press in 4 languages and a MA of semiology leads me to the same results.

animatic has another history , but the results fit.

[jdinasia]

Ricardo ---

At the Dem rally last Thursday even Suthep stood up and said that the investigations should go forward. He also stated that he would be right here in Thailand the whole time and not become a fugitive should there be a court ruling that goes against him. Suthep isn't a "nice guy" but he at least stood in front of a crowd and television cameras and said that HE was in charge of CRES and that he would stay in Thailand for the consequences.

In juxtaposition we need only look at Arisaman and Thaksin and others ..........

I agree with the victims. No Amnesty. I also agree that creating an impartial panel will be tough and proving (not saying "probably" who killed any given person will be next to impossible. Things will boil down to the RoE given to the military commanders and the fact of armed elements inside the reds and their even more militant arm- the black shirts. The reds will catch most of the blame for escalating the violence at each and every turn, but if it can be proven that military commanders deliberately violated the RoE they will go down too. The red leaders will end up, for the most part, behind bars for a long long time if there is any impartial investigation due to them calling openly for violence and for the open admission of the existence of their friends in black.

[hyperdimension]

Only an official inquiry can determine that.

Only an official inquiry can determine that.

Only an official inquiry can determine if journalists were indeed targeted.

Only an official inquiry can determine if the allegations are true.

For reasons that have already been covered in this thread, inquiries are unlikely to fully "determine" the truth.

The ultimate responsibility lies with Thaksin who has been using the people as a tool for his own selfish goals.

[unanimosity]

the reds were involved in an illegal protest

they were committing a crime just by being there

they were harbouring men in black soldier killing murderers in their midst

they celebrated Sae Daeng as leader of these mercenaries

they want compensation for being criminals?

i disagreed when they got money before but asking for more now is taking the piss

they shouldn't have been there, i would not give them or their families, one satang............

The opening paragraph says it all.

Who can object to an enquiry ??

Instead we have a cover up or more precisely a "let's pretend it never happened...."

Innocent people were killed.

This needs an investigation and proper enquiry.

Why have the Democrats not convened a proper and authoritative enquiry ??

First rule of trial litigation is that you never ask a question unless you are certain of the answer. Second law is, never ask a question when you know the answer and it is not the answer you want.