Ladies Who Are Married To Thai Men

[mike123ca]

I'm a male and I'm currently in the process of making an application

for my marriage visa.

At first I will admit to bitching about having

to place 400,000 baht in a Thai bank. Wondering why foreign women get it so

easy for their marriage application.

But upon further reflection, it's not a big deal.

The money is in a safe place and it has to be in my name. It's not like I had to

spend the money.

I'm 10 years older than my wife and if we both live our lives to old age, I do expect

that I should be the first to go. Then I thought ok, the wife can use this money

when I pass on.

If you outlive your spouse, what will be your future options in regards to Thailand.

As we all know, the marriage visa will not continue if the Thai partner is deceased.

What course of action would you think of doing?

Return to your home country?

Remarry a Thai man?

Retirement visa ?

Education visa ?

B visa?

If you have children 20 years and younger O-visa?

[sbk]

The part you fail to grasp is its not about us, the foreigners, its about the Thais. The man is the legal head of the family so as wives of Thai men we are looked upon as "just the wife" this attitude is also extended to YOUR wife. So, the fact that you have to prove income or ability to support her is simply because you are not Thai and you have to show you can stay here and work legally.

Its not trying to make our lives easier, nor is it trying to make your lives harder. Its simply that the man is the legal head of the family.

Wrap your head around that notion and you will begin to understand the system better.

As for options if he dies before I turn 50, I might consider returning to the US. Otherwise, I'd probably go for the retirement visa. But gaining Thai citizenship would be preferable.

[redfish44]

I would actually say it isn't easier.

Sure we supposedly don't have to prove a lot of stuff (in terms of the foreign woman), but as it is not that common to have a foreign woman married to a Thai man, and as a resulty it is actually a lot more complicated to find out how to go about this process. It took us almost a year.

Pretty much every immigration office in Thailand also has different interpretations of the law in this regard to, so you never know what they will ask.

And to get the various bits of paper they want from the other variuous places is not easy either.

Would have been easier for me to just show my bank accounts, but they don't want my bank accounts etc.

We are also yet to find a single practising lawyer or accountant in this country that will agree to handle our situation, in spite of contacting all the ones recomended by my embassy and a bunch of others.

No one is confident enough on the rules to take us on as long term clients.

Your case however, they would have no probs with as everyone knows the rules for foreign man married to Thai woman.

Getting citizenship would be preferable as sbk states, but am not holding my breath for that either, as was hard enough getting an extension of stay based on marriage, and am yet to tackle the residency hoopla.

[Geekfreaklover]

I would imagine residency would be preferable to c'ship, SBK.

To give up the US passport could prove costly if you had to return home or travel in the future.

[Boo]

why would she need t give up her US passport?

[GrahamF]

I would imagine residency would be preferable to c'ship, SBK.

To give up the US passport could prove costly if you had to return home or travel in the future.

I don't think there is a problem with dual citizenship anymore.

Ok, I have a question. I get that the Thai husband is the head of the family and therefore the Farang wife does not have to show the income/money in the bank. Wouldn't logic dictate that it should also be easier for the Farang wife to get Thai citizenship than a Farang husband? I'm gonna take a wild guess that this is not the case.

[sbk]

It is the case, see she is JUST the wife. So he transfers his citizenship to her. That is the actual terminology used. I know Samran has applied for it for his wife out of Bkk but we had the same kind of problem, nobody in Surat Thani even knew what we were talking about. Told us to go to Immigration -it is not through Immigration,it is through the Special Branch police- and it was the police guy who told us to go see Immigration! Not wanting money, nor wishing to be unhelpful but didn't even know it was his job.

[mike123ca]

why would she need t give up her US passport?

I think your right. Thailand allows for dual citizenship.

I forgot about the Permanent Residence and citizenship options.

Now, I'll have to work on my Thai speaking and writing skills

to pass the language requirements

Relying on the marriage visa into your old age is not a good idea.

I would hate to be in my 70's or 80's and my spouse passes away

and then be told to move back to my home country because my marriage visa

no longer exists.

[sbk]

I believe requirements for citizenship have changed recently making it much easier for husbands of thai wives to gain it. Not that they are processing them very fast or doing so in large numbers....

[SadieMBeagle]

I would imagine residency would be preferable to c'ship, SBK.

To give up the US passport could prove costly if you had to return home or travel in the future.

I don't think there is a problem with dual citizenship anymore.

As you said. Actually I know several Thais who grew up in the USA and have dual Thailand/American citizenship - yes, as in two passports. Some now live in Thailand again, some live in the USA. Also, the children of Thai/American partnerships definitely get dual citizenship, so yes, I'd say there is not a problem with dual citizenship for Thai/USA partnerships! Sadly, I cannot speak to other nations, not having any knowledge outside the Thai/USA partnerships. But I think the UK is the same deal.

[Trembly]

It is still technically illegal to hold citizenship(s) other than Thai . . . BUT then they then went and made a statement to the effect of "as long as you don't renounce Thai citizenship we won't take it away from you. Your other passport? We don't have jurisdiction over that".

I love Thailand.

[Raesum]

Trembly-how long has this been in effect? My Thai husband has held dual citizenship and 2 passports for well over 20 years-and all without any problems from going from country to country-in this case Australia. He lived in Australia for nigh on 30 years and has never ever had a problem (Touch wood)

[Trembly]

Trembly-how long has this been in effect? My Thai husband has held dual citizenship and 2 passports for well over 20 years-and all without any problems from going from country to country-in this case Australia. He lived in Australia for nigh on 30 years and has never ever had a problem (Touch wood)

I was told this after pestering a Thai lawyer friend, I've never read it myself - so I can't confirm when this came into effect.

Given the King himself holds dual Thai / American citizenship, Abhisit holds a British passport and Thaksin holds Montenegran and Nicaraguan passports in addition to Thai, I can only foresee it being a problem if you wave your non-Thai citizenship in the face of a Thai immigration officer who is remarkably moody and / or ignorant.

[Raesum]

I can certainly say Thai husband wouldn't be waving anything other than his Thai passport in front of any Thai Immigration Officer.He uses it when he enters and exits the country but as for travelling overseas eg Europe,,UK, USA, Australia automatically produces the "non-Thai " passport.

[endure]

I would imagine residency would be preferable to c'ship, SBK.

To give up the US passport could prove costly if you had to return home or travel in the future.

I don't think there is a problem with dual citizenship anymore.

As you said. Actually I know several Thais who grew up in the USA and have dual Thailand/American citizenship - yes, as in two passports. Some now live in Thailand again, some live in the USA. Also, the children of Thai/American partnerships definitely get dual citizenship, so yes, I'd say there is not a problem with dual citizenship for Thai/USA partnerships! Sadly, I cannot speak to other nations, not having any knowledge outside the Thai/USA partnerships. But I think the UK is the same deal.

Same in the UK. I know a bunch of Thais who all have British citizenship and passports too.

[Goinghomesoon]

Trembly-how long has this been in effect? My Thai husband has held dual citizenship and 2 passports for well over 20 years-and all without any problems from going from country to country-in this case Australia. He lived in Australia for nigh on 30 years and has never ever had a problem (Touch wood)

I was told this after pestering a Thai lawyer friend, I've never read it myself - so I can't confirm when this came into effect.

Given the King himself holds dual Thai / American citizenship, Abhisit holds a British passport and Thaksin holds Montenegran and Nicaraguan passports in addition to Thai, I can only foresee it being a problem if you wave your non-Thai citizenship in the face of a Thai immigration officer who is remarkably moody and / or ignorant.

Trembly we were told recently at a Thai Govt Dept that this Thai law was changed several years ago and dual citz is now permitted. I regret that I didn't ask exactly where I could find the information though.

[Arkady]

Trembly-how long has this been in effect? My Thai husband has held dual citizenship and 2 passports for well over 20 years-and all without any problems from going from country to country-in this case Australia. He lived in Australia for nigh on 30 years and has never ever had a problem (Touch wood)

I was told this after pestering a Thai lawyer friend, I've never read it myself - so I can't confirm when this came into effect.

Given the King himself holds dual Thai / American citizenship, Abhisit holds a British passport and Thaksin holds Montenegran and Nicaraguan passports in addition to Thai, I can only foresee it being a problem if you wave your non-Thai citizenship in the face of a Thai immigration officer who is remarkably moody and / or ignorant.

Don't bother pestering Thai lawyers. They usually know nothing about Thai citizenship apart from the fact they have it themselves. Read the Nationality Act yourself. The law regarding dual nationality has indeed changed over time but there hasn't been a major change since the two amendments in 1992. The first amendment allowed nationality to pass automatically through the maternal line for the first time but required "look krueng" to choose their nationality at the age of 20 and not to continue holding another nationality beyond their 21st birthday, if they chose to retain Thai nationality. The second amendment of 1992, three weeks after the first one, deleted the requirement to dump the other nationality, if the look krueng decided to retain Thai nationality. (Presumably some influential noses were put out of joint by the unenlightened wording of original 1992 amendment). Other than that the 1965 Act made it unclear whether a Thai had to give up Thai nationality to be naturalised as an alien, whereas the previous Act made it quite clear this was required. In the early 70s the Interior Ministry requested co-operation from the Foreign Ministry in reporting all Thais living abroad known to have naturalised as aliens, so that revocation of their Thai nationality could be processed and announced in the Royal Gazette. However, there is no evidence from the Royal Gazette that any such revocations were ever processed. In fact, since 1965 no nvoluntary revocations have ever been announced in the Royal Gazette in respect of Thais who were Thai as a result of being born to Thai parents and later naturalised as aliens. A large number of involuntary revocations have been announced in respect of those who were Thai through being born in the Kingdom to alien fathers and a much smaller number of women who became Thai through adopting their husbands' Thai nationality. All of the involuntary revocations since 1965 have been on grounds of either living abroad without a domicile in Thailand for more than 5 years (the vast majority of them); taking an active interest in the nationality of an alien father (quite a few of them); or on grounds of being a threat to national security, public morals or being convicted of a serious crime.

The first nationality acts from 1913 made it very clear that dual nationality was not allowed, as was the case in virtually every country in the world at the time, but this was subsequently watered down and made ambiguous. Today those who are born to Thai parents can potentially lose Thai nationality for being naturalised as an alien, although this is not totally clear in the wording, but there is no provision at all covering those who were born to Thai parents and got another nationality through birth in another country like Abhisit. Those who are Thai through birth in Thailand to alien parents (since 1971 both of them must be permanent residents) and naturalised Thais can lose Thai nationality through being abroad for more than 5 years or taking an active interest in their alien father's nationality (not defined but one guy lost Thai nationality as a result of entering and leaving Thailand on his foreign passport), or offences against security of public morals. Women married to Thais can only get their Thai citizenship revoked due to offences aagainst security or public morals.

Notwithstanding any of the above, any one applying for naturalisation since 2010 has been required to submit a declaration of intent to renounce their original nationality on approval of Thai nationality made at their embassy and the Interior Ministry will notify their embassy once they have been approved by the King. All candidates for nationality are now routinely asked if they intend to renounce their existing nationality when they are interviewed at the Interior Ministry, whether they have made the declaration or not, and refusal or even any sign of hesitation might result in rejection (or more likely just never hearing any more from them).

Hope this clarifies what is admittedly an unclear situation re dual nationality which is neither explicitly permitted nor prohibited and the fact that there are different classes of Thai nationality with weaker or stronger abilities to hang on to it.

The major recent change to the Nationality Act is the 2008 Act which gave exemption to foreign men applying for naturalisation from the requirements to have 5 years' residence in the Kingdom and knowledge of the Thai language. In practical terms this means they don't need to have permanent residence (a handy concession since PR has been virtually unobtainable since 2006) to apply and are not required to sing the Royal and National Anthems. However, they do need a tabien baan and do need to be able to speak enough Thai to get through all the necessary interviews and tests. The 2008 Act also undid some of the damage done by the 1971 revolutionary decree that denied nationality to those born in the Kingdom to alien parents who were not permanent residents and stripped it retroactively from those in that situation. The 2008 Act allows those born in Thailand to alien parents without PR before 1992 to register for Thai nationality at the discretion of the Interior Ministry.

The law is now about as fair as it can be to spouses of Thai citizens but unfortunately the implementation of the law for those applying for nationality continues to lack transparency. Most importantly there remains no judicial process or right of appeal in the Act and everything to do with nationality is up to the discretion of the interior minister.

Edited July 28, 2011 by Arkady

[Trembly]

Wow many thanks Arkady! Very enlightening.

Can you tell me how long and under what status a foreign man must have been living in Thailand before applying for citizenship?

[sbk]

Hi trembly, there is an entire thread on obtaining citizenship in the visas forum:

[Trembly]

Hi trembly, there is an entire thread on obtaining citizenship in the visas forum:

http://www.thaivisa....__fromsearch__1

Thank you mistress. :jap:

[Thongkorn]

post deleted wrong section

Edited August 14, 2011 by Thongkorn