Thailand's Democrats Seek Ban On Thaksin Party

[whybother]

You know, the time to take them to court has passed. To do this now is just sour grapes. They lost the election big time; this action is just an insult to the people of Thailand. Quite frankly, I'm disgusted with the abuses of power that have been shown the last few years, and this is just another example.

The time to take them to court has NOT passed. There is 7 days after the election to lodge any complaints.

Is lodging a complaint with the courts an abuse of power??

[rixalex]

If the Democrats follow this to conclusion then Newins and Barnhans lot should also be banned again. Leaving them with no friends.

The Democrats are just doing the job that the Electoral Commission should have done before the election... Taksin, Barnhan and Newin should have been cautioned at the very least by the EC.

This is what i am wondering. Why is it left to another party to bring the case forward? Do the police stand and watch a crime happen, and do nothing unless someone reports it? No they don't... well actually, in Thailand.... ok scrap that analogy.

I don't know electoral laws well enough, but if the case is there, the EC should have been acting on it weeks or months ago. Instead it's left until after the election for the losing party to raise the issue. If the EC do act on it now, it's going to cause massive upheaval, protests, chaos, violence. Not to say they shouldn't act on it if laws have been broken, but surely, if they do, it means they saw this all coming ages ago and yet went blindly ahead with putting on an election they knew wouldn't hold water.

[whybother]

This is what i am wondering. Why is it left to another party to bring the case forward? Do the police stand and watch a crime happen, and do nothing unless someone reports it? No they don't... well actually, in Thailand.... ok scrap that analogy.

[SanSaiExPat]

A predictable and legitimate complaint.

The majority of PTP MPs will not be lost of course.

Just parts of the umbrella supporting them.

But the leadership that hadn't pre-resigned, prior to the election to avoid being ousted in the event of this logical filing, will all go bye bye.ANd the control mechanism will be weakened, and that is the likely aim.

I have little doubt that PTP would do EXACTLY the same to them if they thought it would bring advantage.

A democrat would say EXACTLY that. Like a spoiled little child who doesn't get his way you say, "Well "he" would do it too, so I'm going to do it." How childish. The bigger problem for the Democrats is they have NO legitimacy. They never had any before and certainly don't have any now. But why let 16 Million voters stand in the way of what you want?

[roamer]

Argue the merits/demerits of this action as much as you like. It is still the opening salvo and the signal that the elite intend to fight any attempt to change the status quo by whatever means are required. There will be blood.

[caribbeanman]

How stupid can you get. Being banned means they cannot serve in office. It doesn't mean they have to wear muzzles on their mouths.

Being banned means that they can't be INVOLVED in politics, NOT only that they cannot serve in office.

please mr genious, i know that you don't like Thaksin, but can you explain to us how the hell can someone not get involved into politics???

BTW i am not a Thalsin supporter neither a democrat or anyother party, i just dont want more strikes and problems, we , thailand need peace but obviously this move of the Dems is going to creat only problems

Edited July 8, 2011 by caribbeanman

[xminator]

Surprise,surprise!

The people have had their say, hopefully he courts will throw this out before it even gets off the ground.

Upholding anything like this would probably be the simple way to allow the military to do exactly what they said they won't on the basis that they would be intervening in a potential civil war.

Let the democratically elected government to get on with their job, if they fail the people will have an opportunity to go to the polls again in the future.

Nothing Democratic about an election with Rampant Vote Buying.

CS

Where is this rampant vote buying except in your head? The result of this election is 99% because of a majority not liking to be told they are stupid. It was a majority vote against exactly what the Democrat party try to do now. If they had said this BEFORE election day, they would have gotten even fewer votes.

[Deeral]

I* guess from now on we'll see a concerted effort by TV to comb the media for negative and derogatory news and comment on the new government. Bit like Fox and Obama?

[rixalex]

If the democrats were interested in reconciliation for Thailand, then they would not have filed this.

The most pertinent statement so far!

Pertinent to the red way of thinking: let's forget about any laws we may have broken, no point in dwelling on that, we are in charge now, allow us our time at the trough, thank you.

[ratcatcher]

Even though I have admired Abhisit in the past, I am surprised at this move by Demockrats, although it is perfectly legal.

I had no problem with PTP winning and Yingluck, even though she's cursed with that last name, could have won it on her own recognition. It is just a great shame that this is now happening all because of one man's monumental ego.

Take Thaksin out of the equation and they still had good support, albeit regionally.

[DumFarang]

A predictable and legitimate complaint.

The majority of PTP MPs will not be lost of course.

Just parts of the umbrella supporting them.

But the leadership that hadn't pre-resigned, prior to the election to avoid being ousted in the event of this logical filing, will all go bye bye.ANd the control mechanism will be weakened, and that is the likely aim.

I have little doubt that PTP would do EXACTLY the same to them if they thought it would bring advantage.

A democrat would say EXACTLY that. Like a spoiled little child who doesn't get his way you say, "Well "he" would do it too, so I'm going to do it." How childish. The bigger problem for the Democrats is they have NO legitimacy. They never had any before and certainly don't have any now. But why let 16 Million voters stand in the way of what you want?

Ummmm...since when does having half a country (geographically) vote for you make you illegitimate?

[xminator]

This is not about the Democrats contesting the result - the result can't be overturned anyway, as some PT fans are trying to suggest.

This is about adhering to the Law. If PT is disbanded, the PT constituency MPs will have their seats but will just have to set up another party under which to gather, potentially with different party-list MPs. Remember, the people didn't vote for Yinglak, they voted for Peau Thai's local representative in their consituency (well, except for ANYWHERE within 800km of where I live!).

Oh they voted for Yingluck, and will be mighty pissed of if she get a red card. But hey, 4 years until next time.

[DumFarang]

How stupid can you get. Being banned means they cannot serve in office. It doesn't mean they have to wear muzzles on their mouths.

Being banned means that they can't be INVOLVED in politics, NOT only that they cannot serve in office.

please mr genious, i know that you don't like Thaksin, but can you explain to how the hell can someone not get involved into politics???

BTW i am not a Thalsin supporter neither a democrat or anyother party, i just dont want more strikes and problems, we , thailand need peace but obviously this move of the Dems is going to creat only problems

Well the sure didn't file the claims b/c they want to skip down the street holding hands with PTP.

[TechnikaIII]

Legitimate? If the judiciary were neutral, which they are not (yet), how could they defend dissolving the party with such a mandate from the people? Parliament is the law, and the people have chosen a new parliament haven't they?

In an ideal world yes. But in the real world, there are those who define 'democracy' as what they want, not the majority vote. Prime example: Al Gore should have been United States president. He certainly had a moral claim - he won more votes than George Bush, even without counting the ballots that were thrown out and not counted properly.

As far as Thailand is concerned, I hope that the hot headed elements within the Red Shirts can keep their cool. Needless to say, the losers of this election will do everything possible to inflame them, giving the Military the excuse to move in. A lot depends on people remaining calm, and respecting the clear winner of this election.

[DumFarang]

Even though I have admired Abhisit in the past, I am surprised at this move by Demockrats, although it is perfectly legal.

I had no problem with PTP winning and Yingluck, even though she's cursed with that last name, could have won it on her own recognition. It is just a great shame that this is now happening all because of one man's monumental ego.

Take Thaksin out of the equation and they still had good support, albeit regionally.

So you honestly believe Yingluck Lomprakhon would have won the election?

[rubl]

I* guess from now on we'll see a concerted effort by TV to comb the media for negative and derogatory news and comment on the new government. Bit like Fox and Obama?

TV posts any newsworthy item, but for local stuff seems restricted to Nation/TAN, BP has it's own setup.

As for positive / negative that's up to the posters here. A nice mix one might say. Derogatory only as long as the mods take time to remove it. With so many idiotsposters and only a few mods that takes time.

In the mean time any constructive criticism is welcome, even independent of what I myself think about things. Democracy, you just have to love it

[whybother]

How stupid can you get. Being banned means they cannot serve in office. It doesn't mean they have to wear muzzles on their mouths.

Being banned means that they can't be INVOLVED in politics, NOT only that they cannot serve in office.

please mr genious, i know that you don't like Thaksin, but can you explain to us how the hell can someone not get involved into politics???

BTW i am not a Thalsin supporter neither a democrat or anyother party, i just dont want more strikes and problems, we , thailand need peace but obviously this move of the Dems is going to creat only problems

Well ... let's see ... probably one of the first steps is to not call into political rallies.

It's not really that hard. You don't need to be too much of a genius to work out what not to do. Millions (don't) do it every day.

[huck]

I thought the people have chosen already ? In all "Democracy" voice of people is usually legitimate . I understand they might be disappointed but I don think it will help to reunited Thais.

Competely correct. If the people have chosen then the Democracts have to bow their heads to this desision.

I am not a great Thaksin fan. It was the Pheu Thai's election policy to bring Thaksin back to Thailand without jail

and the people have chosen Pheu Thai even with this program. I believe that they have a green light to bring him back

and he will have to be pardoned by the right authorities, because its the will of the people. This is unfortunate, but nothing

can be done to stop this from happening short of a coup.

[atyclb]

How in the world could an EC allow a party to run that is being funded, and manipulated, advised by the same factions that were behind the rioting, looting and burning 13 months ago(convicted fugitive regardless of whether the court was kangaroo or not). Maybe someone there got large deposits in a bank account.

Seems a bit late to contest the legitimacy.

[caribbeanman]

How stupid can you get. Being banned means they cannot serve in office. It doesn't mean they have to wear muzzles on their mouths.

Being banned means that they can't be INVOLVED in politics, NOT only that they cannot serve in office.

please mr genious, i know that you don't like Thaksin, but can you explain to us how the hell can someone not get involved into politics???

BTW i am not a Thalsin supporter neither a democrat or anyother party, i just dont want more strikes and problems, we , thailand need peace but obviously this move of the Dems is going to creat only problems

Well ... let's see ... probably one of the first steps is to not call into political rallies.

It's not really that hard. You don't need to be too much of a genius to work out what not to do. Millions (don't) do it every day.

hahhahhaa ok

[whybother]

Even though I have admired Abhisit in the past, I am surprised at this move by Demockrats, although it is perfectly legal.

I had no problem with PTP winning and Yingluck, even though she's cursed with that last name, could have won it on her own recognition. It is just a great shame that this is now happening all because of one man's monumental ego.

Take Thaksin out of the equation and they still had good support, albeit regionally.

Put Thaksin in the equation and they had good support ... albeit regionally.

Yingluck didn't have any recognition. The only reason she is there is because of her last name. If Thaksin was out of the picture, she wouldn't have even been in PTP's sights.

Thinking about it, without Thaksin, Yingluck wouldn't have been there, and PTP wouldn't have had a chance in he11.

Edited July 8, 2011 by whybother

[rubl]

I thought the people have chosen already ? In all "Democracy" voice of people is usually legitimate . I understand they might be disappointed but I don think it will help to reunited Thais.

Competely correct. If the people have chosen then the Democracts have to bow their heads to this desision.

I am not a great Thaksin fan. It was the Pheu Thai's election policy to bring Thaksin back to Thailand without jail

and the people have chosen Pheu Thai even with this program. I believe that they have a green light to bring him back

and he will have to be pardoned by the right authorities, because its the will of the people. This is unfortunate, but nothing

can be done to stop this from happening short of a coup.

Both Pheu Thai and Ms. Yingluck have gone on record 'This is not about Thaksin'. How can a vote for Pheu Thai all of a sudden mean a vote for 'bring back Thaksin'. Ah, it must have been the conflicting statements about 'bring back Thaksin', 'pardon Thaksin', 'Thaksin thinks, Pheu Thai acts'. Poor voters, totally confused

Edited July 8, 2011 by rubl

[Crushdepth]

You know, the time to take them to court has passed. To do this now is just sour grapes. They lost the election big time; this action is just an insult to the people of Thailand. Quite frankly, I'm disgusted with the abuses of power that have been shown the last few years, and this is just another example.

The time to take them to court has NOT passed. There is 7 days after the election to lodge any complaints.

Is lodging a complaint with the courts an abuse of power??

Lodging complaints about electoral fraud is an essential part of democracy. This may be news to some of the boneheads around here, but canning people for cheating in elections is part of the democratic process.

[whybother]

I thought the people have chosen already ? In all "Democracy" voice of people is usually legitimate . I understand they might be disappointed but I don think it will help to reunited Thais.

Competely correct. If the people have chosen then the Democracts have to bow their heads to this desision.

I am not a great Thaksin fan. It was the Pheu Thai's election policy to bring Thaksin back to Thailand without jail and the people have chosen Pheu Thai even with this program. I believe that they have a green light to bring him back and he will have to be pardoned by the right authorities, because its the will of the people. This is unfortunate, but nothing can be done to stop this from happening short of a coup.

Winning an election does not give one the right to break the law, or to pardon people.

As stated earlier:

It's a parallel logic to saying that an athlete who tests positive for a performance-enhancing drug shouldn't get banned, "because he won". I accept that different people have different perspectives, but the argument of "they won" doesn't cut it with my logic, at least.

[regfrancis]

The more the 'old money establishment party' fight their 'new money' apposition with thinly veiled brute force, they more they will loose support of the general population. Thaksins party didn't come to power because of low intelligence. They know they are becoming the martyr. The Thai elete establishment is trapped in a time warp -thinking they can still ''educate'' the general population to support them. But he cats out of the bag... its a giant cat with an un questioning loyalty to the majority of people.... The intercat

Edited July 8, 2011 by regfrancis

[nikster]

Anyone else have a sense of deja vu?

Gotta wonder why they bother to hold elections at all... A strange understanding of democracy...

[animatic]

People are missing the larger picture here about what this is all about. It is still mostly about Thaksin and what he does, what he is allowed to do. This will determine whether there will be more coups, more street anarchy, or total civil war. He has already gone well beyond normal actions. His role in Black Songkran, the Burning of Bangkok, and now the most blatant proxy campaign (while being banned, while being a criminal fugitive) any fiction writer could even construct. Very strong forces, not only the demo party, seriously (and rationally from their point of view) don't want him running the country as a puppet master, and even more so don't want him to come back to take power directly.

Yes, this is about what Thaksin and others can be allowed to do in their current legal status. This will not affect PTP's MP majority in any significant way.

It will not restore the Dems to power by hook or crook.

But it can possibly work to sidelining Thaksins illegal control over a political party.

Can anyone say that PTP would have gotten this landside without Thaksins direct involvement? It doesn't seem in anyway probable or even possibly.

So if his control and largess, and obvious party leadership, and his deciding on all major decisions, and generally direct involvement, while banned and on the run from charges.

The PTP "Thaksin Think PTP Does" campaign slogan...was incredibly ill conceived legally. From top to bottom this landslide win is can be seen as based on a series of illegal actions by Thaksin and a conspiracy by those working for/under him.

This could not have been filed till after the vote, which is when the crime has been completed. If this election was won because Thaksin directed finance and controlled it, then the landslide can be seen legally as "Fruit Of A Poisoned Tree". If this were evidence in court it would be inadmissible because it was gained through illegal action.

So really this IS a question that needs to be answered, and no doubt it WILL be buck passed to the highest court. Again the MP's elected will in most all cases retain their seats, only the control mechanism of SOME members of PTP and Thaksins involvement are at risk.

Whinge on all you want about sour grapes etc, Red Lovers, Thaksin fans, P.M. agent provocateurs, this is a proper legal argument to make, and necessary for Thailands political process and slow march to lessening political corruption.

Edited July 8, 2011 by animatic

[landofthefree]

You know, the time to take them to court has passed. To do this now is just sour grapes. They lost the election big time; this action is just an insult to the people of Thailand. Quite frankly, I'm disgusted with the abuses of power that have been shown the last few years, and this is just another example.

The time to take them to court has NOT passed. There is 7 days after the election to lodge any complaints.

Is lodging a complaint with the courts an abuse of power??

Lodging complaints about electoral fraud is an essential part of democracy. This may be news to some of the boneheads around here, but canning people for cheating in elections is part of the democratic process.

This seems predictable from the democrats and it won't work for many reasons not least because the international community can see Pheu Thai has a huge mandate. The Americans for one would not be at all happy and the military know that. If they did try to cheat Pheu Thai out of its huge victory there would probably be civil war. I am interested to see how anyone can support this pathetic bad loser/ cant accept democracy attitude from the democrat party.I hope Abhisit supporters see him for the dishonest cheat that he is proving to be.

[DumFarang]

I thought the people have chosen already ? In all "Democracy" voice of people is usually legitimate . I understand they might be disappointed but I don think it will help to reunited Thais.

Competely correct. If the people have chosen then the Democracts have to bow their heads to this desision.

I am not a great Thaksin fan. It was the Pheu Thai's election policy to bring Thaksin back to Thailand without jail

and the people have chosen Pheu Thai even with this program. I believe that they have a green light to bring him back

and he will have to be pardoned by the right authorities, because its the will of the people. This is unfortunate, but nothing

can be done to stop this from happening short of a coup.

Except for the fact that there are governing bodies that adjudicate this sort of matter since there are laws in this country, contrary to popular belief, and it looks likely at this point that some fairly important ones were broken.

[rubl]

I thought the people have chosen already ? In all "Democracy" voice of people is usually legitimate . I understand they might be disappointed but I don think it will help to reunited Thais.

Competely correct. If the people have chosen then the Democracts have to bow their heads to this desision.

I am not a great Thaksin fan. It was the Pheu Thai's election policy to bring Thaksin back to Thailand without jail

and the people have chosen Pheu Thai even with this program. I believe that they have a green light to bring him back

and he will have to be pardoned by the right authorities, because its the will of the people. This is unfortunate, but nothing

can be done to stop this from happening short of a coup.

K. Thaksin can come back anytime he likes. He will have to go straight to jail though to serve his two years.

He will not have to be pardoned by the right authorities because it's the will of the people. Even 'the' people are bound by the 'rule of law'. Pressuring the 'right' authorities like some UDD leaders with supporters did to pressure court to pick up a case against the Dem's? They were stronger, so the court would have to (and did)? Like in 2001 when addresses and phonenumbers were made public to 'influence' an honest mistake case against k. Thaksin?

Are we still talking about a democracy with political parties, elections and rule of law? Use the parliamentary system to try to get laws changed if you want/have to, but stay within the rule of law.