To Buy A House In Sansai River View 2 By Orinsin?

[newthaiman]

Hi i have just joined this site as i will be relocating toThailand to live.

I am looking to buy a house in the River view 2 Project at Sansai built by Orinsin who have about 4 similar developments around Chiangmai.

Does any one know of this builder and if so what is their reputation like? I am paying 4million baht for a two storey 3 bedroom house on 126 sq wah of land.It seems a fair price comparing the other properties i looked at around Chiang mai.

I will be retirng in Thailand, am 50 years of age and will have 1 million baht in the bank and have a Thai wife. Are there any other requirements?

I will also be looking to open a small restaurant around the bar area of Chiangmai. Is it possible to do so without forming a company. Just open up and fly under the radar so to speak?

If not the business will be in my wife's name, so then what will be the requirements on her with regards to running the business?

I am using Sumalee to buy our house as i found she came highly recommended form this site, and so far i have found her easy to deal with.

Thanking you in advance.

Regards

Newthaiman (Steven from Australia)

[Lobo4819]

Anyone want to commence the timer?

[newthaiman]

Anyone want to commence the timer?

Ok i am new here, can you tell me what i did wrong?

[Thaifan2]

I dont know the builder or the project .For B4m it should be a good house .3 bed houses in my estate in San Sai go for just over B2M ,but the garden area is small .

For the retirement visa you only need B400,000 in the bank if you have a Thai wife (B 800,000 IF YOU DONT ) .

[Raindancer]

Anyone want to commence the timer?

Ok i am new here, can you tell me what i did wrong?

I started to write down all the things that you should be wary of about buying property here. But I stopped , because it is such a lengthy and complicated experience. There are so many more experienced ex pats than me who have investigated this subject. Have a look at all their viewpoints and experiences and hit the search button on this subject and maybe it will help.

Best of Luck...but 1 million baht at todays exchange rate is not enough to buy something that you might expect in Farang land, unless you want to live in the "ULU".

My apologies for the un - initiated ...but the "ULU" is an old african saying for living in a backwater or the back of beyond. i.e in the remotest part of a land with no facilities.

[OlafStapleton]

Foreigner can't own house in Thailand.

Thai wife own house, Thai wife divorce foreigner, keep house.

Restaurant/Bar in Chiangmai with foreigner owner NEARLY ALL lose money.

Many have no customers, those with customers also lose money.

Thai take money from foreigner, police, officials, supplier, very hard make money.

Not impossible, just very hard.

You have 20 year experience run bar/restaurant in Thailand, maybe make small amount, maybe not.

[newthaiman]

I dont know the builder or the project .For B4m it should be a good house .3 bed houses in my estate in San Sai go for just over B2M ,but the garden area is small .

For the retirement visa you only need B400,000 in the bank if you have a Thai wife (B 800,000 IF YOU DONT ) .

Cheers thanks for the info.Big Minder fan as well!!

[newthaiman]

Foreigner can't own house in Thailand.

Thai wife own house, Thai wife divorce foreigner, keep house.

Restaurant/Bar in Chiangmai with foreigner owner NEARLY ALL lose money.

Many have no customers, those with customers also lose money.

Thai take money from foreigner, police, officials, supplier, very hard make money.

Not impossible, just very hard.

You have 20 year experience run bar/restaurant in Thailand, maybe make small amount, maybe not.

Thanks for your post. I understand house must be in your wife'sname,this is not a problem for me.

I do not want a bar, i know they hard to make money. I looking at little cafe/ type restaurant. I watch El Diablo's mexican food in Chiang mai and he is making money for sure. I have similar idea with no opposition in Chiang mai. Something tourists will be drawn to.

I understand what you say about everyone ripping farang. I know this many times,my wife tells me go away from me when we shopping, they see farang price will up!! This fact is un escapable but as such i will not so much have a bar but a cafe type restaurant under my wife's control.

But thanks for your post i appreciate you taking time to give me some information.

[MrBrad]

Foreigner can't own house in Thailand.

Thai wife own house, Thai wife divorce foreigner, keep house.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it a foreigner can certainly own a house in his or her name. The land on which it is built, however, must be in a Thai's name or the name of a corporation of some sort in which the foreigner cannot hold more than 49% interest.

[ljerams]

Foreigner can't own house in Thailand.

Thai wife own house, Thai wife divorce foreigner, keep house.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it a foreigner can certainly own a house in his or her name. The land on which it is built, however, must be in a Thai's name or the name of a corporation of some sort in which the foreigner cannot hold more than 49% interest.

This was my understanding as well. Can someone confirm??

Correct and you can also have joint Ownership.

If you inherit the house on your Partner's death you must sell it to a Thai within the next twelve months.

[Thaifan2]

Foreigner can't own house in Thailand.

Thai wife own house, Thai wife divorce foreigner, keep house.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it a foreigner can certainly own a house in his or her name. The land on which it is built, however, must be in a Thai's name or the name of a corporation of some sort in which the foreigner cannot hold more than 49% interest.

This was my understanding as well. Can someone confirm??

That is correct .I bought my house and land in my Thai wifes name ,then got a usufruct so my name is registered on the Chanote ( house Deeds ) .Usufruct gives me 30 years use of the house and lands .My wife can not throw me out .

[CMX]

I'm not able to follow, as usual.

It seems to me that in one example, the land cannot be in the foreigner's name, but the foreigner may own the house itself from the outset, while in that instance the land might/might not be the subject of the usufruct? or it would be owned by the spouse. In fact, perhaps this or that land process could even take place before house construction - were one building one's self, and at least that part of the property would be in the foreigner's name only.

On the other hand, it appears that the chap in with the tie has a lease on both for 30 years, one apparently hard to break, but that he does not own the house. But I may have misread?

I can see sound reasons for either, but may be finding a difference where none exists?

Also, OP, I cannot find Orinsin and don't recall any mention of that name on several threads here. However, you can find names of some suggested builders by using the Search function of this forum.

My own experiences here have taught me to research carefully about everything. Haircuts alone can be a challenge.

Edited July 10, 2011 by CMX

[Tonto21]

Hi 'newthaiman' I hope all works out for you, I'm sure you have read all the horror stories about living in Thailand, yes, sorry, for the most, there true. There are somethings you can do to avoid some of the pit-falls; beware the 'smiling man', offers too good to be true and allowing others, (no matter who) to convince youto go against your better judgment.

I don't think for one minute your wrong or a mug for wanting to start a new life in Thailand, but just keep your hand on yoursixpence and eye's wide open….

The only negative thing I would say is this; Thailand is up to its ass in bars and restaurants. If it's the path you pick good luck………..Let us know when you open, I'll come along.

Edited July 10, 2011 by Tonto21

[fritter1970]

newthaiman - have you lived in Thailand before?

If you have not, DO NOT buy house and land for god's sake.

Rent a house for at least 12 months and learn how the complex Thai system works - especially the part where foreigners come to Thailand and spend their life savings on the love of their life....... then leave Thailand, divorced, with little money and are forced to re-enter the workforce because all of their retirement has gone to the wife via the house and land SHE owns, the car SHE OWNS, the business SHE owns........

[Okertes]

Foreigner can't own house in Thailand.

Thai wife own house, Thai wife divorce foreigner, keep house.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it a foreigner can certainly own a house in his or her name. The land on which it is built, however, must be in a Thai's name or the name of a corporation of some sort in which the foreigner cannot hold more than 49% interest.

Our house is on both my wife and my name but only the house itself not the land so to kick you out of your half house is impossible if you have a valid visa.

for the business I sugest you make somthing that attract Thais and Turists it is better for the low season.

[OlafStapleton]

That is correct .I bought my house and land in my Thai wifes name ,then got a usufruct so my name is registered on the Chanote ( house Deeds ) .Usufruct gives me 30 years use of the house and lands .My wife can not throw me out .

Usufruct with wife land owner can be canceled on divorce by wife, within 1 year divorce unless third party disadvantaged.

So your Usufruct only work if you don't divorce or you divorce but have more than just you on the paper.

If you own house, you have right to remove your house from her land on divorce.

You do not have right to live in.

Every foreign man I know that buy house in wife name, have faithful, honest, loyal wife.

Some woman change, some man poor judge of character.

Better rent!

Edited July 10, 2011 by OlafStapleton

[Thaifan2]

That is correct .I bought my house and land in my Thai wifes name ,then got a usufruct so my name is registered on the Chanote ( house Deeds ) .Usufruct gives me 30 years use of the house and lands .My wife can not throw me out .

Usufruct with wife land owner can be canceled on divorce by wife, within 1 year divorce unless third party disadvantaged.

So your Usufruct only work if you don't divorce or you divorce but have more than just you on the paper.

If you own house, you have right to remove your house from her land on divorce.

You do not have right to live in.

Every foreign man I know that buy house in wife name, have faithful, honest, loyal wife.

Some woman change, some man poor judge of character.

Better rent!

...But when i bought the house ,she was not yet my wife .

[newthaiman]

Hi 'newthaiman' I hope all works out for you, I'm sure you have read all the horror stories about living in Thailand, yes, sorry, for the most, there true. There are somethings you can do to avoid some of the pit-falls; beware the 'smiling man', offers too good to be true and allowing others, (no matter who) to convince youto go against your better judgment.

I don't think for one minute your wrong or a mug for wanting to start a new life in Thailand, but just keep your hand on yoursixpence and eye's wide open….

The only negative thing I would say is this; Thailand is up to its ass in bars and restaurants. If it's the path you pick good luck………..Let us know when you open, I'll come along.

Yeah thanks for the positive encouragement Tonto 21, at least you are not wasting your time leaving sarcastic ( the lowest form of wit) comments.Unfortunately it is the same in my country when i occassionally go to the Betfair forum to pose a question, there seem to be people waiting to post sarcastic and degrogatory remarks. I wish they would get a life!!

I have read all the horror stories and certainly don't want to be one of the. I have been travelling to Thailand for my holidays yearly for the last 15 years. I am a professional punter and have always been self employed, so i would say that i am certainly not "wet behind the ears".

I want to buy a house so when i eventually float off my wife and child can have a comfortable life. I want a good deal but weather i pay 2 million or 4 million is really of little consequence. I was just seeking some advice with my post.

I would NEVER EVER entertain the idea of opening up a bar. For farang's who open them i think they are more a novelty than a money making idea. The pitfalls are many and chance of likely sucess is tiny. The girls and the cops will get rich off you,i know this.

Maybe i shouldnt have put i wanted to open a restaurant in a bar area in my post.It seems to send hte wrong idea.

Really its a small cafe idea, near the Imm hotel area if you know that area. Has no competition, is a concept idea and only needs a relatively small area to run the business. I looked at some premises while i was there earlier this month and rentwise am looking at about 20000 bath per month. 400,000 - 600,000 bath for fit out and only needs a few staff, so i wouldnt think i could get into too much trouble if all is done properly. Don't need a huge income from it as such, but don't won't to go broke doing it either. Just something to fill in some of my time and get small income from it.

Anyway thanks for your post and maybe i can buy you a beer sometime at my cafe.

Cheers

[mccw]

^ yep you've got the right idea; just rent the space and create what u want, no point paying for a turn key. I've met people who have paid well over a million bht for something when they could of just rented the unit next door and built something better from scratch for half the price.

Coffee, cake and wifi in one place seems to b a hit with Thais and expats alike. But you'd have to sell allot of the stuff to cover rent of 20k plus the same again probably on staff and bills.

Buying a couple of cheap condos or town houses could make u a similar profit of what realistically would b a best case senario from the business with allot less hassle and risk involved.

Talking from experience I can say the idea of a nice little business like this is completely different to the reality. You become a slave to it. Constantly need to pay attention and make sure everything is how it should b otherwise high risk of failure. Really ties u down; can't holiday, travel how u want etc . I'm finding property more profitable and alot better work / life balance.

Even these thai coffee type places that seem to do reasonably well open and close frequently and I'm sure many are supported in a similar way to fallings ie rich wives or kids getting subsidised .

Not trying to be down on your idea; just trying to help. If u can afford to take the gamble go for it, at the very least it'll b a good experience, but if you want something stable to pass on to your kids give all the pros and cons a good long think.

Rentals would also leave your wife free to further boost the family income buy getting a day job if needs be, such as the event of your death.

If you were to buy a 3 bed house on karnkanok 1 or adjoining property on a similar size land would be about 2.5-3million. So with the money not going in to cafe say 1.6million- this could buy you 3 possibly four basic studio rooms for rent to thai at 3-4k pm each. Or 2 maybe 3 terraced/ town houses , rent furnished around 5k/ 4 unfurnished.

Good luck what ever u decide to do.

[mccw]

^ yep you've got the right idea; just rent the space and create what u want, no point paying for a turn key. I've met people who have paid well over a million bht for something when they could of just rented the unit next door and built something better from scratch for half the price.

Coffee, cake and wifi in one place seems to b a hit with Thais and expats alike. But you'd have to sell allot of the stuff to cover rent of 20k plus the same again probably on staff and bills.

Buying a couple of cheap condos or town houses could make u a similar profit of what realistically would b a best case senario from the business with allot less hassle and risk involved.

Talking from experience I can say the idea of a nice little business like this is completely different to the reality. You become a slave to it. Constantly need to pay attention and make sure everything is how it should b otherwise high risk of failure. Really ties u down; can't holiday, travel how u want etc . I'm finding property more profitable and alot better work / life balance.

Even these thai coffee type places that seem to do reasonably well open and close frequently and I'm sure many are supported in a similar way to fallings ie rich wives or kids getting subsidised .

Not trying to be down on your idea; just trying to help. If u can afford to take the gamble go for it, at the very least it'll b a good experience, but if you want something stable to pass on to your kids give all the pros and cons a good long think.

Rentals would also leave your wife free to further boost the family income buy getting a day job if needs be, such as the event of your death.

If you were to buy a 3 bed house on karnkanok 1 or adjoining property on a similar size land would be about 2.5-3million. So with the money not going in to cafe say 1.6million- this could buy you 3 possibly four basic studio rooms for rent to thai at 3-4k pm each. Or 2 maybe 3 terraced/ town houses , rent furnished around 5k/ 4 unfurnished.

Good luck what ever u decide to do.

[mccw]

Oops double post;

Karnkanok I can vouch for as stable construction. They use steel frame and pre caste concrete for the walls Wichita are tied in place by more steel. Much more solid than these tiny little brick they use alot of places with more mortar than brick half the time.

Nice shared facility there also. Pool, gym, sauna etc. One enterprising retired thai couple do exceedingly reasonably priced food delivery within the estate and another house is converted to a mini mart and do gas and water delivery, which is a bonus.

Come to think of it the club house poolside restaurant was available for rent last time I was there; not sure how much but falang food is missing there as too far for in town deliveries. (just pizza gets there but no mac ds or meals on wheels so far as i know) Many falang live there and the Thais are rich enough to treat the kids to cheese burgers . Everything's already set up so no costs to get going just pay the rent etc. Then you could do prop and bussiness.

[techno]

Anyone want to commence the timer?

Ok i am new here, can you tell me what i did wrong?

Sumalee is a good lawyer and can give you some good advice on buying a house amd owning a business here. Not something l would do

[OlafStapleton]

...But when i bought the house ,she was not yet my wife .

I ask in office today, they say marriage trump other contract, wife can cancel on divorce.

Good luck!

[ljerams]

Are "they" in your Office qualified to give such an incorrect opinion?

Your up thread post was also totally incorrect when all the OP was asking for was some advice and not to be mislead by incorrect facts!

[JeffreyMcCollum]

There are new and decent homes in Chiang Mai area for 1 million or under. Just depends on what you want. 1 or 2 bedroom ? 1 or 2 bathroom OK Small yard. And there are ways to protect yourself in the case of the wife leaving. IRON CLAD ways.

I worry about the resturant thing, If you do good. the Thai's get jelious and call immigration. Let the mrs. do and lay low. have fun and enjoy your time here

[OlafStapleton]

Are "they" in your Office qualified to give such an incorrect opinion?

Your up thread post was also totally incorrect when all the OP was asking for was some advice and not to be mislead by incorrect facts!

I don't know, how much you bet my office wrong, you house?

If my office wrong but cancel contract in error, how much you bet compensation, you house?

If you right, if you office right, Thai person kill you keep house keep land, not cost much

I not like any bet white person Vs Thai person

Thai rak Thai

Maybe I just stupid!

[nivram4491]

In my opinion, buying a few condos is a much better idea. There are condos you can buy in your own name. The rent from the condos can give you a better return without having to worry about staff, the music police and a host of other problems.

If you buy a house and your wife passes away you have to sell the property to a Thai person within 12 months.

Definitely rent before you buy property. Don't buy any property until you have reliable knowledge and support that you can trust.

I certainly wish that I had done a lot more research before buying property and taken things a lot more slowly. Imagine the worst possible situation like your wife wanting a divorce - not at all uncommon in Thailand - and then think about trying to unravel the mess. A rental home would be a blessing in such a situation.

Other people have had great ideas for a business and the ability and finances to establish the business which has then gone on to become successful. Something as silly as not allowing an internationally renowned farang musician not being allowed to play music in his own business has then put the kibosh on the business resulting in a huge loss of money and incredible frustration.

You can never predict what will happen in the future but one can be fairly safe in making the prediction that if something unexpected does happen to affect the farang business it won't be in a positive way (from a farung point of view).

[kjhbigv]

"Definitely rent before you buy property. Don't buy any property until you have reliable knowledge and support that you can trust."

Good advice, why not just rent for a year, get a good feel for CM and Thai living.....it's cheap to rent a 3 bed house anywhere in and around CM....will give you time to get used to living here and maybe ascertain where you and the missus want to live and gives you time to ensure you want to live here permanently.

Good example...I rushed in a bit and put money into a house in Sansai a few years ago, lived there for a year with the GF and got bored out of my brains, too quiet and boring for me.....we now have an empty house in Sansai and we now rent an apartment in town. In hindsight, never thought I would get bored, nice detached house etc but it did and took a year or so to realise!

You also need to remember that selling on a 2nd hand house is not as easy as in the west, seen many many empty houses just sitting there waiting to be sold, including ours! So if you buy and don't like the area, you could be stuck!

If you want a nice 3 bed/3 bath detached house in a nice and safe (boring) moo baan in Sansai, drop me a line, will do a good deal! I mean the GF will!

Edited July 11, 2011 by kjhbigv

[Tonto21]

There are new and decent homes in Chiang Mai area for 1 million or under. Just depends on what you want. 1 or 2 bedroom ? 1 or 2 bathroom OK Small yard. And there are ways to protect yourself in the case of the wife leaving. IRON CLAD ways.

I worry about the resturant thing, If you do good. the Thai's get jelious and call immigration. Let the mrs. do and lay low. have fun and enjoy your time here

Sounds a bad thing to say……..But 'O' so true! Not only call immigration, but open next door and copy what you are doing………for half price!

Edited July 11, 2011 by Tonto21

[Thaifan2]

"Definitely rent before you buy property. Don't buy any property until you have reliable knowledge and support that you can trust."

Good advice, why not just rent for a year, get a good feel for CM and Thai living.....it's cheap to rent a 3 bed house anywhere in and around CM....will give you time to get used to living here and maybe ascertain where you and the missus want to live and gives you time to ensure you want to live here permanently.

Good example...I rushed in a bit and put money into a house in Sansai a few years ago, lived there for a year with the GF and got bored out of my brains, too quiet and boring for me.....we now have an empty house in Sansai and we now rent an apartment in town. In hindsight, never thought I would get bored, nice detached house etc but it did and took a year or so to realise!

You also need to remember that selling on a 2nd hand house is not as easy as in the west, seen many many empty houses just sitting there waiting to be sold, including ours! So if you buy and don't like the area, you could be stuck!

If you want a nice 3 bed/3 bath detached house in a nice and safe (boring) moo baan in Sansai, drop me a line, will do a good deal! I mean the GF will!

I found the opposite .After several years of living in a Condo in Thailand it was great to get a house ,with a bit of garden ,and space to pursue hobbies .I also live in San Sai but if i want the town its only 20 minutes drive away .