Thailand Set For Return To 'Thaksinomics'

[Artisi]

Guess Mr T could really be called Robing Hood, he took from the rich (mostly) but the problem was he forgot to give it to the poor - except for his driver and maid etc who famously became rich overnight - Oh! and his son and daughter if my memory serves me right.

[davidkia]

everytime i come on here i see the sernior member nr if not first on , always something to , same line never give someone else a chance, why is this i say , maybe because you are ok doing fine while the farmer's are working thier socks of . It's true someone else may get the bulk of the money for the rice but maybe the governmen will sort the people out that try that stunt again.

i will say one thing for you , you never let up each time i read what you say there is nothing new no debate only the same old you trying to say bad about the red shirts whether you like them or not let give them a chance not just keeping the same even if you are ok give some else a chance in life !

[steveromagnino]

Look... you anti T *flame removed*.

Wake up, the policies of Thaksin of paying minimum guaranteed prices brought real tangible benefits to Thai farmers.

The rich Chinese grain buyers have always controlled the prices and kept the rural poor in debt to them for many many years.

Also, low cost micro loans enable farmers to purchase equipment to enable them to be more efficient and more productive.

Simple yet meaningful policies which the rural poor remember.

That is why he has so much support in the country, not just in Isaan.

As soon as the Dems got back in, the old ways came back, farmers screwed by the big buyers.

You can pontificate until the cows come home, but you can't change the reality of the situation.

The Dems have always looked after the big players and the government pen pushers who couldn't give a rat's about the rural poor,

I read all this rubbish by golf playing, pub hanging expats, and it's obvious some of you need to get out of their caves and talk to the supporters of PT.

The reasons are always the same, Mr T was the first guy to care about us.

That is why we support him and PT.

Thanks for calling people twits. Very mature.

1. The rice pledging scheme was originally supposedly to remove the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune for Thai rice farmers. however, it quickly became a higher than market rates vote winner, which is effectively taking taxes from people who pay tax (like me), and gifting it to people who produce rice. Very quickly, this became a robber baron game of obtaining rice from neighbouring countries at a lower rate, not growing it, then selling it into the pledge scheme. In addition, it encouraged volume rather than quantity, and yet also created a market distortion with the Thai government being unable to sell the rice profitably and so billions of tons were wasted; from 2003 to 2009, Thai rice exports dropped (not grew, dropped) 30%.

in the heady days of 2008, Mingkwan (PPP) talked of a rice cartel, with promises of 15,000b per ton, and didn't sell the stockpile of rice he had then because at that time PPP had already been buying at that sort of price, while the market price was well below that, kindly landing the next government with a huge stockpile, and a bunch of farmers growing bad quality rice. In the end, I would guess the long suffering Thai tax payer ended up paying for a bunch of rice which has been left to rot somewhere.

The current crop guarantee scheme, no doubt, is in theory less profitable for farmers. Any time when you don't pay 15,000b for a ton of rice and instead pay market rates (currently about 9,000+ baht) the farmer ends up with less.

However, the reality is MOST of the benefit of crop pledging goes to insiders, not farmers. Many of those insiders are connected politicians. The entire tax paying base of Thailand is effectively giving a subsidy that is NOT needed to encourage substandard rice farmers to keep working (at a guess 30% of it) and 70% is a gift to the people who run provincial businesses connected to the pledging scheme.

IT IS A SCAM.

Micro credit; the TDRI have already demonstrated that the microcredit scheme of TRT was questionable; without doubt worth trying but not anywhere near complete or running smoothly; the architect of it told me face to face he could not consider it under any criteria to be a success, and commented that the reason Grameen bank and the like worked was it took way more time than a single massive shunt to make microcredit a success ,and the implementation was too rushed, done without pre agreed goals or objectives, and had increased household debt for many without a resultant increase in productivity to service it. YES, this is one of the policies I most liked TRT for at least having a go, but I cannot believe it could be held up as any sort of a success story when it was so clearly more of a bribe than a fund, and with so few success stories to hold up in the entire TRT period 2001-2006 (if there were many stories, the TRT PR machine would have found them and promoted them heavily).

As for TRT's massive rural popularity; let me know how strong they are in....

Chonburi

Suphanburi

Southern Isaan

Anywhere south of Phetburi

Awful lot of rural people in those areas.....

As you are obviously also Thai, let me just say this.

The rest of the world, in a strongly functioning democracy, the role of government should be to provide a safety net for the poor. No one should be left behind. Education, healthcare, access to a fair job, security, free speech, food and water, etc.

It should not there to allow certain selected poor professions (such as say rice farmers) to profit unjustly from market distortions, while other professions (e.g. the majority of Thais who work in factories etc) subsidise these initiatives.

Anyhow, for all the claims that Thaksin helped the rural poor so much, you would expect in 5 years that affluence jumped up substantially, and at least the amount of wealth distribution changed with the rural poor getting much more with all these ideas executed. You'd expect a huge jump in 2002-2003 at least.

So while the richest few in Thailand such as the Shinawatra clan tripled their wealth in 2001 - 2005 period.....alledgedly (they do like suing people for saying stuff like that); did the rural poor also more than triple theirs? No.

In fact, if we look at worldbank poverty stats, the time at which (from the period available 1981 - 2004) we can see the GINI coefficient actually improving far more from the period 1992 - 1998 (which is when Thailand started to see major industrialisation and shifting to the city) with actually a best measure in 1998 which TRT's various schemes still had not managed to replicate by 2004 which was pre oil prices ramping up. And yes, agreed 1998 was a crash...albeit one somewhat orchestrated or accidentally presided over by former TRT deputy PM and former PT big wig Chavalit "big Jiew".

We do see an ongoing reduction in number below the poverty line since 1981...again hard to see a major real change when Thaksin stepped in. Maybe you need more data for it, I do admit what i have to work with is skant.

Tellingly, if we look at the deciles, instead what we really see is actually that 1998 vs. 2004 we are seeing the top decile dropping to their lowest in 1998, but then again building back up.

This big shift we might expect to see...of equality....it simply isn't there.

At least not in the data available. And most income and so on stats bear that out.

http://iresearch.worldbank.org/PovcalNet/povcalSvy.html

On the other hand....we can look at tax used to pay for the schemes run to date. Middle class (about 5-7 million) pay most of the tax in Thailand coming from income source (consumption, luxury, etc taxes excluded). When the Shinawatras avoided paying tax by buying shares at 1 baht then 24 hours later selling them at 47.5 baht per share, without any tax paid, they and the others that do this are effectively shifting money from the middle upper portion of the income curve to the top decile, rather than redistributing down to the lower deciles. When you take into account the TRT approach to helping people get out of poverty is effectively taking the tax baht that they don't pay and gifting it to the poor in these various schemes, you can start to understand why trying to build the country into a nation of entrepreneurs is unlikely to succeed when they are getting simultaneously screwed over to collect tax, and getting few benefits from the government back.

As long as Thais view the government as 'Por Liang' then this mindset (which is how a 5 year old thinks a country can be run) will keep getting repeated again and again.

And as the middle class get more and more tired of paying for idiocy like gifting rice farmers an extra 50% of the price simply for being 'nice Thai rice farmers' then you can understand why they are willing to get angry and not play all nice like they are supposed to.

Apparently, being pro business makes me one of the ammartaya.

Ironic, being that I come from a family of illiterate rice farmers innit.

Edited July 11, 2011 by metisdead
Flame removed from quoted post.

[Crushdepth]

Importing rice from Cambodia and flogging it to the government in Thailand is sure to become a very popular activity. I wonder who the biggest traders will be?

[rubl]

Thaksinomics, rice pledging scheme, inflation. Don't worry, K. Olarn already thought and spoke about it.

2011-05-23:

""City dwellers may ask if the rice price would then climb up? From data, we produce 30 million tonnes of paddy rice per year, or 20 million tonnes of polished rice. Thais consume 10 million tonnes and the rest is exported. We will have a mechanism in place to ensure that domestic price is not too expensive while exports are carried out in a thorough way," he said."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2011/05/23/business/Pheu-Thai-proposes-new-income-distribution-method-30155993.html

Edited July 11, 2011 by rubl

[wolfmanjack]

She has promised rice farmers a minimum price of 15,000 Baht per tonne, much higher than the current market price of less than 10,000 Baht.

AFP appear to have missed Ms Yingluck's off-the-cuff promise to raise the price to 20,000 Baht per tonne, which will be even-more damaging, to the country's finances & rice-exports.

The farmers might get 1/2 of the 15k

and the other 5 if it happens goes right to the millers and transporters on the top.

Eventually the farmers will catch on again and the truck loads of rice dumped in front of ministries will start up again.

But by then the economy will be in the hopper.

The last article i saw posted on TV about the rice pledging scheme it said 30% went to millers and politicians. From what i understand the last time they had this scheme a lot of rice form neighboring countries made it into the scheme also.

[wolfmanjack]

As usual, the anti-thaksin brigade misses the whole point. The article is pointing towards generally good times for the country and the economy, albeit with certain inflationary concerns. The greatest risk to Thailand is now political turmoil. And yet, the anti-T gang is still criticising the new Govt and unable to look to the future.

It's funny that you want people to look to the future, but support going back to Thaksin.

We worry about Thaksin Bankrupting the country with his Thaksinomics.

Most all non TRT aligned economists said years ago

it was unworkable as he has presented it, and no signs of change.

It will make him adored in Issan till the day the bill will come due for all Thais.

Look... you anti T *flame removed*.

Wake up, the policies of Thaksin of paying minimum guaranteed prices brought real tangible benefits to Thai farmers.

The rich Chinese grain buyers have always controlled the prices and kept the rural poor in debt to them for many many years.

Also, low cost micro loans enable farmers to purchase equipment to enable them to be more efficient and more productive.

Simple yet meaningful policies which the rural poor remember.

That is why he has so much support in the country, not just in Isaan.

As soon as the Dems got back in, the old ways came back, farmers screwed by the big buyers.

You can pontificate until the cows come home, but you can't change the reality of the situation.

The Dems have always looked after the big players and the government pen pushers who couldn't give a rat's about the rural poor,

I read all this rubbish by golf playing, pub hanging expats, and it's obvious some of you need to get out of their caves and talk to the supporters of PT.

The reasons are always the same, Mr T was the first guy to care about us.

That is why we support him and PT.

"As soon as the Dems got back in, the old ways came back, farmers screwed by the big buyers."

Actually the reality is that the rice gurantee under the democrats 100% went to the farmer and the rice pledging scheme had 30% going to the millers and politicians. The democrats fixed the problems with the rice subsidie which cut the middlemen and politicians out of the gravy train. Now Thaksin wants to change it back to where him and his friends get their 30% again.

[rufanuf]

This thing with the rice. Wouldnt the only way to really stop the middlemen from exploiting the uneducated farmer be for the goverment to apply a fixed duty expressed as a percentage of the difference between the global market price for rough rice (at the time its sold to the buyer by the farmer), placed on the middleman, and given back to the farmer? So if the farmer has a big buyer, they raise paperwork between each other that proves what the farmer sold to the buyer...then both parties send in their dockets to a government office, and a duty is taken from the buyer and rebated to the farmer.No interest in anyone fiddling that system its virtually unfiddleable, as the farmer has no interest in not declaring what he sells (otherwise he wont gets his rebates) and the buyer has no means to fiddle the system as its self governing (by the farmer he buys from insisting on his docets for his rebate).

[wolfmanjack]

This thing with the rice. Wouldnt the only way to really stop the middlemen from exploiting the uneducated farmer be for the goverment to apply a fixed duty expressed as a percentage of the difference between the global market price for rough rice (at the time its sold to the buyer by the farmer), placed on the middleman, and given back to the farmer? So if the farmer has a big buyer, they raise paperwork between each other that proves what the farmer sold to the buyer...then both parties send in their dockets to a government office, and a duty is taken from the buyer and rebated to the farmer.No interest in anyone fiddling that system its virtually unfiddleable, as the farmer has no interest in not declaring what he sells (otherwise he wont gets his rebates) and the buyer has no means to fiddle the system as its self governing (by the farmer he buys from insisting on his docets for his rebate).

the democrats have it set up with a minimum sales price and if the farmer does not get that sales price the balance is paid to the farmer. This cuts the middleman out. It is still s subsidy but 100% of the subsidy goes where it is supposed to. The problem with this system as far as thaksin is concerned is the wealthy families that own the mills are not getting any share of the subsidy.

[SantiSuk]

"The richest 20 percent of Thai households account for nearly half of total household incomes, the Asian Development Bank estimates". Shocking, but the journos lazily forgot to do any international comparisons (or it didn't suit their headline grab)

Thailand is very equitable compared to some (most?) Western economies:

10% of individuals account for 53% of the wealth in the UK (1% have 21% of the wealth) according to Wikipedia

20% of individuals account for 80% of the wealth in the USA according to Michael I Norton, Harvard Business school. This business professor surveyed 5,000 Americans; they thought that the top 20% of individuals would own 55% and they thought that the ideal would be 25% (so much for wanting the American Dream - that's a stat that most socialist countries don't reach!)

[khaowong1]

What is the National poverty level? Can anyone enlighten us? Talk about your inequalities in the distribution of wealth. Look at the U.S. We are hurting. so much for Obamanomics.

[bobmac10]

Look... you anti T *flame removed*.

Wake up, the policies of Thaksin of paying minimum guaranteed prices brought real tangible benefits to Thai farmers.

The rich Chinese grain buyers have always controlled the prices and kept the rural poor in debt to them for many many years.

Also, low cost micro loans enable farmers to purchase equipment to enable them to be more efficient and more productive.

Simple yet meaningful policies which the rural poor remember.

That is why he has so much support in the country, not just in Isaan.

As soon as the Dems got back in, the old ways came back, farmers screwed by the big buyers.

You can pontificate until the cows come home, but you can't change the reality of the situation.

The Dems have always looked after the big players and the government pen pushers who couldn't give a rat's about the rural poor,

I read all this rubbish by golf playing, pub hanging expats, and it's obvious some of you need to get out of their caves and talk to the supporters of PT.

The reasons are always the same, Mr T was the first guy to care about us.

That is why we support him and PT.

Thanks for calling people twits. Very mature.

1. The rice pledging scheme was originally supposedly to remove the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune for Thai rice farmers. however, it quickly became a higher than market rates vote winner, which is effectively taking taxes from people who pay tax (like me), and gifting it to people who produce rice. Very quickly, this became a robber baron game of obtaining rice from neighbouring countries at a lower rate, not growing it, then selling it into the pledge scheme. In addition, it encouraged volume rather than quantity, and yet also created a market distortion with the Thai government being unable to sell the rice profitably and so billions of tons were wasted; from 2003 to 2009, Thai rice exports dropped (not grew, dropped) 30%.

in the heady days of 2008, Mingkwan (PPP) talked of a rice cartel, with promises of 15,000b per ton, and didn't sell the stockpile of rice he had then because at that time PPP had already been buying at that sort of price, while the market price was well below that, kindly landing the next government with a huge stockpile, and a bunch of farmers growing bad quality rice. In the end, I would guess the long suffering Thai tax payer ended up paying for a bunch of rice which has been left to rot somewhere.

The current crop guarantee scheme, no doubt, is in theory less profitable for farmers. Any time when you don't pay 15,000b for a ton of rice and instead pay market rates (currently about 9,000+ baht) the farmer ends up with less.

However, the reality is MOST of the benefit of crop pledging goes to insiders, not farmers. Many of those insiders are connected politicians. The entire tax paying base of Thailand is effectively giving a subsidy that is NOT needed to encourage substandard rice farmers to keep working (at a guess 30% of it) and 70% is a gift to the people who run provincial businesses connected to the pledging scheme.

IT IS A SCAM.

Micro credit; the TDRI have already demonstrated that the microcredit scheme of TRT was questionable; without doubt worth trying but not anywhere near complete or running smoothly; the architect of it told me face to face he could not consider it under any criteria to be a success, and commented that the reason Grameen bank and the like worked was it took way more time than a single massive shunt to make microcredit a success ,and the implementation was too rushed, done without pre agreed goals or objectives, and had increased household debt for many without a resultant increase in productivity to service it. YES, this is one of the policies I most liked TRT for at least having a go, but I cannot believe it could be held up as any sort of a success story when it was so clearly more of a bribe than a fund, and with so few success stories to hold up in the entire TRT period 2001-2006 (if there were many stories, the TRT PR machine would have found them and promoted them heavily).

As for TRT's massive rural popularity; let me know how strong they are in....

Chonburi

Suphanburi

Southern Isaan

Anywhere south of Phetburi

Awful lot of rural people in those areas.....

As you are obviously also Thai, let me just say this.

The rest of the world, in a strongly functioning democracy, the role of government should be to provide a safety net for the poor. No one should be left behind. Education, healthcare, access to a fair job, security, free speech, food and water, etc.

It should not there to allow certain selected poor professions (such as say rice farmers) to profit unjustly from market distortions, while other professions (e.g. the majority of Thais who work in factories etc) subsidise these initiatives.

Anyhow, for all the claims that Thaksin helped the rural poor so much, you would expect in 5 years that affluence jumped up substantially, and at least the amount of wealth distribution changed with the rural poor getting much more with all these ideas executed. You'd expect a huge jump in 2002-2003 at least.

So while the richest few in Thailand such as the Shinawatra clan tripled their wealth in 2001 - 2005 period.....alledgedly (they do like suing people for saying stuff like that); did the rural poor also more than triple theirs? No.

In fact, if we look at worldbank poverty stats, the time at which (from the period available 1981 - 2004) we can see the GINI coefficient actually improving far more from the period 1992 - 1998 (which is when Thailand started to see major industrialisation and shifting to the city) with actually a best measure in 1998 which TRT's various schemes still had not managed to replicate by 2004 which was pre oil prices ramping up. And yes, agreed 1998 was a crash...albeit one somewhat orchestrated or accidentally presided over by former TRT deputy PM and former PT big wig Chavalit "big Jiew".

We do see an ongoing reduction in number below the poverty line since 1981...again hard to see a major real change when Thaksin stepped in. Maybe you need more data for it, I do admit what i have to work with is skant.

Tellingly, if we look at the deciles, instead what we really see is actually that 1998 vs. 2004 we are seeing the top decile dropping to their lowest in 1998, but then again building back up.

This big shift we might expect to see...of equality....it simply isn't there.

At least not in the data available. And most income and so on stats bear that out.

http://iresearch.wor.../povcalSvy.html

On the other hand....we can look at tax used to pay for the schemes run to date. Middle class (about 5-7 million) pay most of the tax in Thailand coming from income source (consumption, luxury, etc taxes excluded). When the Shinawatras avoided paying tax by buying shares at 1 baht then 24 hours later selling them at 47.5 baht per share, without any tax paid, they and the others that do this are effectively shifting money from the middle upper portion of the income curve to the top decile, rather than redistributing down to the lower deciles. When you take into account the TRT approach to helping people get out of poverty is effectively taking the tax baht that they don't pay and gifting it to the poor in these various schemes, you can start to understand why trying to build the country into a nation of entrepreneurs is unlikely to succeed when they are getting simultaneously screwed over to collect tax, and getting few benefits from the government back.

As long as Thais view the government as 'Por Liang' then this mindset (which is how a 5 year old thinks a country can be run) will keep getting repeated again and again.

And as the middle class get more and more tired of paying for idiocy like gifting rice farmers an extra 50% of the price simply for being 'nice Thai rice farmers' then you can understand why they are willing to get angry and not play all nice like they are supposed to.

Apparently, being pro business makes me one of the ammartaya.

Ironic, being that I come from a family of illiterate rice farmers innit.

Clearly you are a scholarly chap, reads a lot etc but the essential ingredient missing here is the contact with the real Thai rural poor with whom I mix and meet daily.

i have never seen any instance of rice farmers profteering from the guaranteed price scheme, in fact it's been a mechanism which allows them to break the stranglehold of the rice traders, with whom they are forced to sell and then buy seed later at exorbitant prices on credit. This has been the way for years, not having sufficient cash flow to pay when they need to and sell when the prices are better. The profiteering would almost certainly have been done by those with the ability and the business contacts to arrange such deals, i.e. rice traders, not small land holders who number in the millions.

They barely have enough money to pay for the staples in life let alone send children to highschool, pay for a motorbike, build a decent house etc.

The micro loans scheme which I have witnessed has been a resounding success. water pumps, spray equipment, Kubota powered implements have all enabled farmers to increase their productivity and provide some relief from the back breaking toil of hand digging, pumping etc.

This is the reality. You might like to find fault by accentuating the odd scam here and there, but the overwhelming majority of farmers have been able to improve their lot in life honestly, with the help of these schemes.

Thaksin was the first politician to realise the untapped support that could,be gained if this section of the Thai populace could be mobilised, and he was right.

Despite his not paying tax, (and of course all the other squillionaires in Thailand do) it didn't stop this rural majority getting their micro loans and guaranteed price.

The Democrats, who have clung on to power through coalitions for so long I can't remember, unpopular with the majority but impossible to get rid of, did not think that they would have to try harder to win their support.

The rest they say is history.

Thailand has a history of feudalism, and it isn't that long ago, in the country especially, where there was zero hope for the poor, to achieve any financial independence.

Those with the power liked it that way, and that mentality still exists. The born into privilege Thais couldn't care less about the unwashed masses, ( the way they are parodied on the television soap operas is a clue) and it will take a long while until they achieve real equality. However, as the Thais stumble their way, experimenting with democracy and suffering military coups, one thing is becoming clear, they like having a say in the way their country is run, and if that means they want a PT government, then we need to respect that.

Despite all you scholars giving them fatherly lectures about how bad Mr T is, I don't believe they are as dumb as you think. They understand the big boys are all corrupt, (not just one side) but at least they are getting some recognition and seeing some small improvement in their lives. That is the feed back I am getting.

[MILT]

As usual, the anti-thaksin brigade misses the whole point. The article is pointing towards generally good times for the country and the economy, albeit with certain inflationary concerns. The greatest risk to Thailand is now political turmoil. And yet, the anti-T gang is still criticising the new Govt and unable to look to the future.

That's sounds pretty complacent don't you think? Generally this is not about the BS promises, and a bright future. This is about reconciliation= Get her big brother out of his current jam that is all. That is what your gonna see, the people are second in line after all the jockeying for seats is over. The Thaksinomics will be the worst thing for the Kingdom and by the way as you can see where all this is going, it will force Thailand down a dark road, one that the US is currently on. Thai nationalism is so important and with the Thaksinomics being implemented, it will squash what is left. Watch the Thaksindynasty/ and his cornies wallets swell. To cross reference my perdiction google Vice President "Dick Chenney" He is the master of deception as is Thaksin and his sister.

Edited July 12, 2011 by MILT

[losworld]

As usual, the anti-thaksin brigade misses the whole point. The article is pointing towards generally good times for the country and the economy, albeit with certain inflationary concerns. The greatest risk to Thailand is now political turmoil. And yet, the anti-T gang is still criticising the new Govt and unable to look to the future.

It's funny that you want people to look to the future, but support going back to Thaksin.

We worry about Thaksin Bankrupting the country with his Thaksinomics.

Most all non TRT aligned economists said years ago

it was unworkable as he has presented it, and no signs of change.

It will make him adored in Issan till the day the bill will come due for all Thais.

Look... you anti T *flame removed*.

Wake up, the policies of Thaksin of paying minimum guaranteed prices brought real tangible benefits to Thai farmers.

The rich Chinese grain buyers have always controlled the prices and kept the rural poor in debt to them for many many years.

Also, low cost micro loans enable farmers to purchase equipment to enable them to be more efficient and more productive.

Simple yet meaningful policies which the rural poor remember.

That is why he has so much support in the country, not just in Isaan.

As soon as the Dems got back in, the old ways came back, farmers screwed by the big buyers.

You can pontificate until the cows come home, but you can't change the reality of the situation.

The Dems have always looked after the big players and the government pen pushers who couldn't give a rat's about the rural poor,

I read all this rubbish by golf playing, pub hanging expats, and it's obvious some of you need to get out of their caves and talk to the supporters of PT.

The reasons are always the same, Mr T was the first guy to care about us.

That is why we support him and PT.

You don't know what you are talking about. How is getting the Thai public to assume more debt while the greedy traders make increased profits a viable solution? This is not a solution but a mere buying of votes. If Thaksin wants to help the farmers let him set up a co-operative and eliminate the greedy traders. But this is not how it works. Thaksin is simply sucking money from one group of middle and lower class Thais to give a handout to another while the monopolies, oligopolies and greed continues. When will some of you fools come to the conclusion that Thaksin sucked billions of dollars out of poor Thais (many farmers) with his monopolized cellular company just as Carlos Slim has become the world's wealthiest man screwing poor Mexicans. But you think this is a man of the people for the people. Ship of fools I say...

Edited July 12, 2011 by losworld

[Neurath]

I'm not clear about the promise of a minimum daily wage of THB300.

Has PT promised that this will apply countrywide, in every Province, or is it a promise for Bangkok only?

I had thought it was the former, though I am now hearing that it is the later.

Does anyone have evidence suggesting one way or the other?

Thanks.

[rubl]

The Democrats, who have clung on to power through coalitions for so long I can't remember, unpopular with the majority but impossible to get rid of, did not think that they would have to try harder to win their support.

Dem's clinging to power through coalitions for so long some can't remember? As if clinging to power through an absolute majority would be so healthy for a democracy. Was it 2004 or 2005 k. Thaksin said "we'll rule for twenty years". Mind you a few weeks ago in the run-up to the elections he said something like 'a majority government doesn't work well in Thailand'. Well, he should know, his was the only majority government in the history of democratic Thailand. Any of the other governments before or after were coalitions; some with, some without the Dem's. For so long I can hardly remember, but I can ask my buddy John McCain

Lots of posters here come from Western democracies where coalitions are rule rather than exception. Seems to work well.

[whybother]

I'm not clear about the promise of a minimum daily wage of THB300.

Has PT promised that this will apply countrywide, in every Province, or is it a promise for Bangkok only?

I had thought it was the former, though I am now hearing that it is the later.

Does anyone have evidence suggesting one way or the other?

Thanks.

It depends who you want to believe.

Govt to Raise Minimum Wage for Civil Servants, State Firm Employees in October

...

Pheu Thai Party Secretary-General Jarupong Ruangsuwan ...

Jarupong noted that the plan to increase the minimum wage to 300 baht a day aims to help low-income earners support themselves. He reaffirmed that the same rate will apply to all provinces.

...

Thaksin: Bt300 minimum wage is only applied in Bangkok. /via @aunonline #PostToday /via@suthichai /via@veen_NT

[lannarebirth]

I'm not clear about the promise of a minimum daily wage of THB300.

Has PT promised that this will apply countrywide, in every Province, or is it a promise for Bangkok only?

I had thought it was the former, though I am now hearing that it is the later.

Does anyone have evidence suggesting one way or the other?

Thanks.

The Pheu Thai Party is adamant that it will increase the minimum wage to 300 baht a day nationwide - 40-90% above current levels - by January, while academics and businesses have warned of adverse impacts on the overall economy.Suchart Thada-Thamrongvech, head of the Pheu Thai economic team and a former finance minister, said that even though the party had yet to decide whether to lift wages in one move or gradually, it was committed to the plan that it says will benefit 9 million workers.

Thaksin says the 300-baht minimum wage will only apply to Bangkok. In other areas, minimum wages will be lower.

I hope that's cleared things up for you.

[MILT]

Look... you anti T *flame removed*.

Wake up, the policies of Thaksin of paying minimum guaranteed prices brought real tangible benefits to Thai farmers.

The rich Chinese grain buyers have always controlled the prices and kept the rural poor in debt to them for many many years.

Also, low cost micro loans enable farmers to purchase equipment to enable them to be more efficient and more productive.

Simple yet meaningful policies which the rural poor remember.

That is why he has so much support in the country, not just in Isaan.

As soon as the Dems got back in, the old ways came back, farmers screwed by the big buyers.

You can pontificate until the cows come home, but you can't change the reality of the situation.

The Dems have always looked after the big players and the government pen pushers who couldn't give a rat's about the rural poor,

I read all this rubbish by golf playing, pub hanging expats, and it's obvious some of you need to get out of their caves and talk to the supporters of PT.

The reasons are always the same, Mr T was the first guy to care about us.

That is why we support him and PT.

Thanks for calling people twits. Very mature.

1. The rice pledging scheme was originally supposedly to remove the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune for Thai rice farmers. however, it quickly became a higher than market rates vote winner, which is effectively taking taxes from people who pay tax (like me), and gifting it to people who produce rice. Very quickly, this became a robber baron game of obtaining rice from neighbouring countries at a lower rate, not growing it, then selling it into the pledge scheme. In addition, it encouraged volume rather than quantity, and yet also created a market distortion with the Thai government being unable to sell the rice profitably and so billions of tons were wasted; from 2003 to 2009, Thai rice exports dropped (not grew, dropped) 30%.

in the heady days of 2008, Mingkwan (PPP) talked of a rice cartel, with promises of 15,000b per ton, and didn't sell the stockpile of rice he had then because at that time PPP had already been buying at that sort of price, while the market price was well below that, kindly landing the next government with a huge stockpile, and a bunch of farmers growing bad quality rice. In the end, I would guess the long suffering Thai tax payer ended up paying for a bunch of rice which has been left to rot somewhere.

The current crop guarantee scheme, no doubt, is in theory less profitable for farmers. Any time when you don't pay 15,000b for a ton of rice and instead pay market rates (currently about 9,000+ baht) the farmer ends up with less.

However, the reality is MOST of the benefit of crop pledging goes to insiders, not farmers. Many of those insiders are connected politicians. The entire tax paying base of Thailand is effectively giving a subsidy that is NOT needed to encourage substandard rice farmers to keep working (at a guess 30% of it) and 70% is a gift to the people who run provincial businesses connected to the pledging scheme.

IT IS A SCAM.

Micro credit; the TDRI have already demonstrated that the microcredit scheme of TRT was questionable; without doubt worth trying but not anywhere near complete or running smoothly; the architect of it told me face to face he could not consider it under any criteria to be a success, and commented that the reason Grameen bank and the like worked was it took way more time than a single massive shunt to make microcredit a success ,and the implementation was too rushed, done without pre agreed goals or objectives, and had increased household debt for many without a resultant increase in productivity to service it. YES, this is one of the policies I most liked TRT for at least having a go, but I cannot believe it could be held up as any sort of a success story when it was so clearly more of a bribe than a fund, and with so few success stories to hold up in the entire TRT period 2001-2006 (if there were many stories, the TRT PR machine would have found them and promoted them heavily).

As for TRT's massive rural popularity; let me know how strong they are in....

Chonburi

Suphanburi

Southern Isaan

Anywhere south of Phetburi

Awful lot of rural people in those areas.....

As you are obviously also Thai, let me just say this.

The rest of the world, in a strongly functioning democracy, the role of government should be to provide a safety net for the poor. No one should be left behind. Education, healthcare, access to a fair job, security, free speech, food and water, etc.

It should not there to allow certain selected poor professions (such as say rice farmers) to profit unjustly from market distortions, while other professions (e.g. the majority of Thais who work in factories etc) subsidise these initiatives.

Anyhow, for all the claims that Thaksin helped the rural poor so much, you would expect in 5 years that affluence jumped up substantially, and at least the amount of wealth distribution changed with the rural poor getting much more with all these ideas executed. You'd expect a huge jump in 2002-2003 at least.

So while the richest few in Thailand such as the Shinawatra clan tripled their wealth in 2001 - 2005 period.....alledgedly (they do like suing people for saying stuff like that); did the rural poor also more than triple theirs? No.

In fact, if we look at worldbank poverty stats, the time at which (from the period available 1981 - 2004) we can see the GINI coefficient actually improving far more from the period 1992 - 1998 (which is when Thailand started to see major industrialisation and shifting to the city) with actually a best measure in 1998 which TRT's various schemes still had not managed to replicate by 2004 which was pre oil prices ramping up. And yes, agreed 1998 was a crash...albeit one somewhat orchestrated or accidentally presided over by former TRT deputy PM and former PT big wig Chavalit "big Jiew".

We do see an ongoing reduction in number below the poverty line since 1981...again hard to see a major real change when Thaksin stepped in. Maybe you need more data for it, I do admit what i have to work with is skant.

Tellingly, if we look at the deciles, instead what we really see is actually that 1998 vs. 2004 we are seeing the top decile dropping to their lowest in 1998, but then again building back up.

This big shift we might expect to see...of equality....it simply isn't there.

At least not in the data available. And most income and so on stats bear that out.

http://iresearch.wor.../povcalSvy.html

On the other hand....we can look at tax used to pay for the schemes run to date. Middle class (about 5-7 million) pay most of the tax in Thailand coming from income source (consumption, luxury, etc taxes excluded). When the Shinawatras avoided paying tax by buying shares at 1 baht then 24 hours later selling them at 47.5 baht per share, without any tax paid, they and the others that do this are effectively shifting money from the middle upper portion of the income curve to the top decile, rather than redistributing down to the lower deciles. When you take into account the TRT approach to helping people get out of poverty is effectively taking the tax baht that they don't pay and gifting it to the poor in these various schemes, you can start to understand why trying to build the country into a nation of entrepreneurs is unlikely to succeed when they are getting simultaneously screwed over to collect tax, and getting few benefits from the government back.

As long as Thais view the government as 'Por Liang' then this mindset (which is how a 5 year old thinks a country can be run) will keep getting repeated again and again.

And as the middle class get more and more tired of paying for idiocy like gifting rice farmers an extra 50% of the price simply for being 'nice Thai rice farmers' then you can understand why they are willing to get angry and not play all nice like they are supposed to.

Apparently, being pro business makes me one of the ammartaya.

Ironic, being that I come from a family of illiterate rice farmers innit.

Clearly you are a scholarly chap, reads a lot etc but the essential ingredient missing here is the contact with the real Thai rural poor with whom I mix and meet daily.

i have never seen any instance of rice farmers profteering from the guaranteed price scheme, in fact it's been a mechanism which allows them to break the stranglehold of the rice traders, with whom they are forced to sell and then buy seed later at exorbitant prices on credit. This has been the way for years, not having sufficient cash flow to pay when they need to and sell when the prices are better. The profiteering would almost certainly have been done by those with the ability and the business contacts to arrange such deals, i.e. rice traders, not small land holders who number in the millions.

They barely have enough money to pay for the staples in life let alone send children to highschool, pay for a motorbike, build a decent house etc.

The micro loans scheme which I have witnessed has been a resounding success. water pumps, spray equipment, Kubota powered implements have all enabled farmers to increase their productivity and provide some relief from the back breaking toil of hand digging, pumping etc.

This is the reality. You might like to find fault by accentuating the odd scam here and there, but the overwhelming majority of farmers have been able to improve their lot in life honestly, with the help of these schemes.

Thaksin was the first politician to realise the untapped support that could,be gained if this section of the Thai populace could be mobilised, and he was right.

Despite his not paying tax, (and of course all the other squillionaires in Thailand do) it didn't stop this rural majority getting their micro loans and guaranteed price.

The Democrats, who have clung on to power through coalitions for so long I can't remember, unpopular with the majority but impossible to get rid of, did not think that they would have to try harder to win their support.

The rest they say is history.

Thailand has a history of feudalism, and it isn't that long ago, in the country especially, where there was zero hope for the poor, to achieve any financial independence.

Those with the power liked it that way, and that mentality still exists. The born into privilege Thais couldn't care less about the unwashed masses, ( the way they are parodied on the television soap operas is a clue) and it will take a long while until they achieve real equality. However, as the Thais stumble their way, experimenting with democracy and suffering military coups, one thing is becoming clear, they like having a say in the way their country is run, and if that means they want a PT government, then we need to respect that.

Despite all you scholars giving them fatherly lectures about how bad Mr T is, I don't believe they are as dumb as you think. They understand the big boys are all corrupt, (not just one side) but at least they are getting some recognition and seeing some small improvement in their lives. That is the feed back I am getting.

Well, I f I read this correctly an educated Thai national spells it out like it is in real time and you come back with some horse Sh*t that they got some watts, pumps, some farming equipment Yadii Yadii Ya. None of the Taksinomics has not had any real long term positive impacts on the rural folks you hang out with. You brush off corruption like it is dust on your hands and say that these people aren't stupid and that they know what is going on. Sir/madam they are idiots at best.

[rubl]

It depends who you want to believe.

Govt to Raise Minimum Wage for Civil Servants, State Firm Employees in October

...

Pheu Thai Party Secretary-General Jarupong Ruangsuwan ...

Jarupong noted that the plan to increase the minimum wage to 300 baht a day aims to help low-income earners support themselves. He reaffirmed that the same rate will apply to all provinces.

...

Thaksin: Bt300 minimum wage is only applied in Bangkok. /via @aunonline #PostToday /via@suthichai /via@veen_NT

No offence, but stupid remark. Of course I believe the Pheu Thai Secretary-General Jarupong Ruangsuwan, not k. Thaksin who's not involved in politics, policies, cabinet formation, etc., etc.

[bobmac10]

Look... you anti T *flame removed*.

Wake up, the policies of Thaksin of paying minimum guaranteed prices brought real tangible benefits to Thai farmers.

The rich Chinese grain buyers have always controlled the prices and kept the rural poor in debt to them for many many years.

Also, low cost micro loans enable farmers to purchase equipment to enable them to be more efficient and more productive.

Simple yet meaningful policies which the rural poor remember.

That is why he has so much support in the country, not just in Isaan.

As soon as the Dems got back in, the old ways came back, farmers screwed by the big buyers.

You can pontificate until the cows come home, but you can't change the reality of the situation.

The Dems have always looked after the big players and the government pen pushers who couldn't give a rat's about the rural poor,

I read all this rubbish by golf playing, pub hanging expats, and it's obvious some of you need to get out of their caves and talk to the supporters of PT.

The reasons are always the same, Mr T was the first guy to care about us.

That is why we support him and PT.

Thanks for calling people twits. Very mature.

1. The rice pledging scheme was originally supposedly to remove the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune for Thai rice farmers. however, it quickly became a higher than market rates vote winner, which is effectively taking taxes from people who pay tax (like me), and gifting it to people who produce rice. Very quickly, this became a robber baron game of obtaining rice from neighbouring countries at a lower rate, not growing it, then selling it into the pledge scheme. In addition, it encouraged volume rather than quantity, and yet also created a market distortion with the Thai government being unable to sell the rice profitably and so billions of tons were wasted; from 2003 to 2009, Thai rice exports dropped (not grew, dropped) 30%.

in the heady days of 2008, Mingkwan (PPP) talked of a rice cartel, with promises of 15,000b per ton, and didn't sell the stockpile of rice he had then because at that time PPP had already been buying at that sort of price, while the market price was well below that, kindly landing the next government with a huge stockpile, and a bunch of farmers growing bad quality rice. In the end, I would guess the long suffering Thai tax payer ended up paying for a bunch of rice which has been left to rot somewhere.

The current crop guarantee scheme, no doubt, is in theory less profitable for farmers. Any time when you don't pay 15,000b for a ton of rice and instead pay market rates (currently about 9,000+ baht) the farmer ends up with less.

However, the reality is MOST of the benefit of crop pledging goes to insiders, not farmers. Many of those insiders are connected politicians. The entire tax paying base of Thailand is effectively giving a subsidy that is NOT needed to encourage substandard rice farmers to keep working (at a guess 30% of it) and 70% is a gift to the people who run provincial businesses connected to the pledging scheme.

IT IS A SCAM.

Micro credit; the TDRI have already demonstrated that the microcredit scheme of TRT was questionable; without doubt worth trying but not anywhere near complete or running smoothly; the architect of it told me face to face he could not consider it under any criteria to be a success, and commented that the reason Grameen bank and the like worked was it took way more time than a single massive shunt to make microcredit a success ,and the implementation was too rushed, done without pre agreed goals or objectives, and had increased household debt for many without a resultant increase in productivity to service it. YES, this is one of the policies I most liked TRT for at least having a go, but I cannot believe it could be held up as any sort of a success story when it was so clearly more of a bribe than a fund, and with so few success stories to hold up in the entire TRT period 2001-2006 (if there were many stories, the TRT PR machine would have found them and promoted them heavily).

As for TRT's massive rural popularity; let me know how strong they are in....

Chonburi

Suphanburi

Southern Isaan

Anywhere south of Phetburi

Awful lot of rural people in those areas.....

As you are obviously also Thai, let me just say this.

The rest of the world, in a strongly functioning democracy, the role of government should be to provide a safety net for the poor. No one should be left behind. Education, healthcare, access to a fair job, security, free speech, food and water, etc.

It should not there to allow certain selected poor professions (such as say rice farmers) to profit unjustly from market distortions, while other professions (e.g. the majority of Thais who work in factories etc) subsidise these initiatives.

Anyhow, for all the claims that Thaksin helped the rural poor so much, you would expect in 5 years that affluence jumped up substantially, and at least the amount of wealth distribution changed with the rural poor getting much more with all these ideas executed. You'd expect a huge jump in 2002-2003 at least.

So while the richest few in Thailand such as the Shinawatra clan tripled their wealth in 2001 - 2005 period.....alledgedly (they do like suing people for saying stuff like that); did the rural poor also more than triple theirs? No.

In fact, if we look at worldbank poverty stats, the time at which (from the period available 1981 - 2004) we can see the GINI coefficient actually improving far more from the period 1992 - 1998 (which is when Thailand started to see major industrialisation and shifting to the city) with actually a best measure in 1998 which TRT's various schemes still had not managed to replicate by 2004 which was pre oil prices ramping up. And yes, agreed 1998 was a crash...albeit one somewhat orchestrated or accidentally presided over by former TRT deputy PM and former PT big wig Chavalit "big Jiew".

We do see an ongoing reduction in number below the poverty line since 1981...again hard to see a major real change when Thaksin stepped in. Maybe you need more data for it, I do admit what i have to work with is skant.

Tellingly, if we look at the deciles, instead what we really see is actually that 1998 vs. 2004 we are seeing the top decile dropping to their lowest in 1998, but then again building back up.

This big shift we might expect to see...of equality....it simply isn't there.

At least not in the data available. And most income and so on stats bear that out.

http://iresearch.wor.../povcalSvy.html

On the other hand....we can look at tax used to pay for the schemes run to date. Middle class (about 5-7 million) pay most of the tax in Thailand coming from income source (consumption, luxury, etc taxes excluded). When the Shinawatras avoided paying tax by buying shares at 1 baht then 24 hours later selling them at 47.5 baht per share, without any tax paid, they and the others that do this are effectively shifting money from the middle upper portion of the income curve to the top decile, rather than redistributing down to the lower deciles. When you take into account the TRT approach to helping people get out of poverty is effectively taking the tax baht that they don't pay and gifting it to the poor in these various schemes, you can start to understand why trying to build the country into a nation of entrepreneurs is unlikely to succeed when they are getting simultaneously screwed over to collect tax, and getting few benefits from the government back.

As long as Thais view the government as 'Por Liang' then this mindset (which is how a 5 year old thinks a country can be run) will keep getting repeated again and again.

And as the middle class get more and more tired of paying for idiocy like gifting rice farmers an extra 50% of the price simply for being 'nice Thai rice farmers' then you can understand why they are willing to get angry and not play all nice like they are supposed to.

Apparently, being pro business makes me one of the ammartaya.

Ironic, being that I come from a family of illiterate rice farmers innit.

Clearly you are a scholarly chap, reads a lot etc but the essential ingredient missing here is the contact with the real Thai rural poor with whom I mix and meet daily.

i have never seen any instance of rice farmers profteering from the guaranteed price scheme, in fact it's been a mechanism which allows them to break the stranglehold of the rice traders, with whom they are forced to sell and then buy seed later at exorbitant prices on credit. This has been the way for years, not having sufficient cash flow to pay when they need to and sell when the prices are better. The profiteering would almost certainly have been done by those with the ability and the business contacts to arrange such deals, i.e. rice traders, not small land holders who number in the millions.

They barely have enough money to pay for the staples in life let alone send children to highschool, pay for a motorbike, build a decent house etc.

The micro loans scheme which I have witnessed has been a resounding success. water pumps, spray equipment, Kubota powered implements have all enabled farmers to increase their productivity and provide some relief from the back breaking toil of hand digging, pumping etc.

This is the reality. You might like to find fault by accentuating the odd scam here and there, but the overwhelming majority of farmers have been able to improve their lot in life honestly, with the help of these schemes.

Thaksin was the first politician to realise the untapped support that could,be gained if this section of the Thai populace could be mobilised, and he was right.

Despite his not paying tax, (and of course all the other squillionaires in Thailand do) it didn't stop this rural majority getting their micro loans and guaranteed price.

The Democrats, who have clung on to power through coalitions for so long I can't remember, unpopular with the majority but impossible to get rid of, did not think that they would have to try harder to win their support.

The rest they say is history.

Thailand has a history of feudalism, and it isn't that long ago, in the country especially, where there was zero hope for the poor, to achieve any financial independence.

Those with the power liked it that way, and that mentality still exists. The born into privilege Thais couldn't care less about the unwashed masses, ( the way they are parodied on the television soap operas is a clue) and it will take a long while until they achieve real equality. However, as the Thais stumble their way, experimenting with democracy and suffering military coups, one thing is becoming clear, they like having a say in the way their country is run, and if that means they want a PT government, then we need to respect that.

Despite all you scholars giving them fatherly lectures about how bad Mr T is, I don't believe they are as dumb as you think. They understand the big boys are all corrupt, (not just one side) but at least they are getting some recognition and seeing some small improvement in their lives. That is the feed back I am getting.

Well, I f I read this correctly an educated Thai national spells it out like it is in real time and you come back with some horse Sh*t that they got some watts, pumps, some farming equipment Yadii Yadii Ya. None of the Taksinomics has not had any real long term positive impacts on the rural folks you hang out with. You brush off corruption like it is dust on your hands and say that these people aren't stupid and that they know what is going on. Sir/madam they are idiots at best.

Milt, sorry your post is not going to be read by the millions who voted for PT. And if it was, what chance of convincing them?

Do you honestly believe you know better and they would listen to you?

This was an historic time in Thailand's history, the voters have waited years to re-elect a government thrown out in a coup.

you have to accept Milt, get over it and move on.

[Samuian]

She has promised rice farmers a minimum price of 15,000 Baht per tonne, much higher than the current market price of less than 10,000 Baht.

AFP appear to have missed Ms Yingluck's off-the-cuff promise to raise the price to 20,000 Baht per tonne, which will be even-more damaging, to the country's finances & rice-exports.

The farmers might get 1/2 of the 15k

and the other 5 if it happens goes right to the millers and transporters on the top.

Eventually the farmers will catch on again and the truck loads of rice dumped in front of ministries will start up again.

But by then the economy will be in the hopper.

yo, whatever happens the same farmers, or their offspring and EVERYBODY else will have to pay at least 55-60 Baht per kilo A1 grade rice .... they are being robbed from behind and cheer to it "our savior, our savior, the good lad!", occupy rajaprasong for months, set Bangkok ablaze and cry revolution!" And THIS is simply AMAZING - how this has been set up, absolute AMAZING - I tip my hat for that!

Well, they will pay the bill...

Edited July 12, 2011 by Samuian

[rubl]

Milt, sorry your post is not going to be read by the millions who voted for PT. And if it was, what chance of convincing them?

Do you honestly believe you know better and they would listen to you?

This was an historic time in Thailand's history, the voters have waited years to re-elect a government thrown out in a coup.

you have to accept Milt, get over it and move on.

Even though I'm not MILT, I feel a need to reply

Whatever is written here is more than likely never read by any Thai. All of us should know that, it's an forum catering to foreigners being sufficiently fluent in English.

To suggest any is trying to influence or even convince Thai or Thai voters is a bit hilarious. Just accept it, get over it. Just opinions, IMHO

Edited July 12, 2011 by rubl

[bobmac10]

Milt, sorry your post is not going to be read by the millions who voted for PT. And if it was, what chance of convincing them?

Do you honestly believe you know better and they would listen to you?

This was an historic time in Thailand's history, the voters have waited years to re-elect a government thrown out in a coup.

you have to accept Milt, get over it and move on.

Even though I'm not MILT, I feel a need to reply

Whatever is written here is more than likely never read by any Thai. All of us should know that, it's an forum catering to foreigners being sufficiently fluent in English.

To suggest any is trying to influence or even convince Thai or Thai voters is a bit hilarious. Just accept it, get over it. Just opinions, IMHO

There is a point there that I was trying to make, that is: it is almost impossible for a farung to understand the depth of feeling amongst the rural voters who support PT.

The majority of comments on this forum seem to adopt the position of "oh dear, simple Thais, have no idea" whereas I would say the opposite.

[englishinsiam]

Most PT followers to me seem to have the same attitude of your grass roots Labour supporter in Britain.

I'll vote Labour because my dad voted Labour, nothing to do with policies.

I'm glad the democrates are respecting the vote so far. But why all the talk from Thaksin??? Isn't he on the run as a criminal? Maybe he should have further charges like vote rigging/buying added to his long list.

Once the Thai poor realise they will stay poor under Yingluck maybe just maybe the Democrats will get another go at putting right the Shinawatras robbieries.

[Ricardo]

It depends who you want to believe.

Govt to Raise Minimum Wage for Civil Servants, State Firm Employees in October

...

Pheu Thai Party Secretary-General Jarupong Ruangsuwan ...

Jarupong noted that the plan to increase the minimum wage to 300 baht a day aims to help low-income earners support themselves. He reaffirmed that the same rate will apply to all provinces.

...

Thaksin: Bt300 minimum wage is only applied in Bangkok. /via @aunonline #PostToday /via@suthichai /via@veen_NT

Thanks whybother for digging the posts out. :jap:

How about a new PTP-slogan, "Thanksin Thinks Again, Pheu Thai Re-Tracts" ?

[huck]

She has promised rice farmers a minimum price of 15,000 Baht per tonne, much higher than the current market price of less than 10,000 Baht.

AFP appear to have missed Ms Yingluck's off-the-cuff promise to raise the price to 20,000 Baht per tonne, which will be even-more damaging, to the country's finances & rice-exports.

The farmers might get 1/2 of the 15k

and the other 5 if it happens goes right to the millers and transporters on the top.

Eventually the farmers will catch on again and the truck loads of rice dumped in front of ministries will start up again.

But by then the economy will be in the hopper.

Giving workers a 50% raize from 200 to 300 Baht a day will mean inflation will be 50%. In the end no one wins. There is only one problem

Thailand will have less exports. That means less money coming into the country. That means unemployment will increase.

[GarryP]

Owners of many large factories are screaming blue murder about the proposed increase in minimum wage but the fact remains that the owners of many large businesses here in Thailand operate on very large profit margins. Much higher that in more developed countries anyway. If margins were more reasonable, increased wages could be paid without the need to increase the price of the goods. But the owners would never accept making less if it was still possible to take advantage of their workers.

On the other hand, small businesses often work on much smaller margins and these could be significantly impacted.

I beleive the above inflationary figures of 50 percent were thrown out facetiously.

[lannarebirth]

Owners of many large factories are screaming blue murder about the proposed increase in minimum wage but the fact remains that the owners of many large businesses here in Thailand operate on very large profit margins. Much higher that in more developed countries anyway. If margins were more reasonable, increased wages could be paid without the need to increase the price of the goods. But the owners would never accept making less if it was still possible to take advantage of their workers.

On the other hand, small businesses often work on much smaller margins and these could be significantly impacted.

I beleive the above inflationary figures of 50 percent were thrown out facetiously.

Good post and all true. I think a move to 300 B/day is a good move for the nation and whatever they backtrack to will probably exactly the same as Abhisit's proposal, if that good. On the bright side, maybe that gauntlet of orange vests one has to navigate through at HomePro will become that much smaller.

[hammered]

Funny to see talk of inflation that will be caused by giving those at the bottom more. In the past year or so they have seen their staple foods go up by immense amounts and the wage remain unchanged. Who was arguing for a big increase to help the poor out then? You cant increase their wage because it risks inflation but when inflation comes along screw them and let their living standards drop. This is a correction for all the wrongs of the past decade when they have hardly seen any increase in their income but seen the price of everything they need go up. It wasnt long ago a basic bottle of palm oil was going for 80 baht in markets while the government spouted some nonsense about how they wouldnt let anyone sell it for more than 47 baht (their controlled price) and many daily workers buy from these places. The government did nothing to help them infact many people think certain government ministers colluded to create the oil rise. We all know the story of egg prices and pork and how much in a decade stall food has gone up. Basic necessities. And in the last decade how much have daily wages increased by?