Banking For Americans In Thailand 101

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Nice of you to pop in again, Ian...

It reminds me that you and Dave of BKK Bank have never followed through with the commitment made in the other ThaiVisa thread for BKK Bank to publicly post or disclose the bank's policy on cardholder liability for lost or stolen credit cards.

It's now been almost two months since the last post in that thread... and we've heard nothing further from BKK Bank on the issue of its cardholder liability policy... Perhaps you'd care to post some update on that subject while you're in the neighborhood.

Bangkok Bank Will Not Payback Fraudulent Pos Transactions W/Stolen Atm Card

38,940 Baht 6 Point of Sale Transactions B4 Card Cxld & Police Rep

http://www.thaivisa....tolen-atm-card/

Edited February 15, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

I have the PFCU Visa and BOA Visa CC. I am thinking of getting the Mastercard Cap One Cash CC since it also but I was wondering if the foreign exchange rate for Mastercard is the same as Visa. I have always heard that the conversion rate you get for MC's DC was far worse than Visa's DC.

The one thing I don't like about the BOA is that unlike the PFCU which gives you the cash back at the end of each statement, with the BOA CC, you get the cash back after you've earned $25.

Assuming all of the cards in question have no foreign currency fee, the VISA cards will have somewhat better exchange rates than the MC counterparts... though the difference isn't quite "far worse" as you put it....

Obviously, the VISA and MC networks are each setting their exchange rates day to day... and those vary over time... But member Jim Gant's research here has shown that VISA pretty consistently has a slight edge over the MC network in terms of Thai-$ exchange rates.

The Visa exchange rate is usually (not always) a little better than the Mastercard exchange rate. At this moment in time when comparing exchange rates on the Visa Exchange Rate Webpage and the Mastercard Exchange Rate Webpage the Visa rate is 30.73 Baht/USD and the Mastercard rate is 30.59 Baht/USD which means Visa has a 0.14 baht better exchange rate at this moment in time. The TT Buying Rate being reflected on ThaiVisa right now is 30.72 Baht/USD.

Speaking of PenFed Visa credit cards, the PenFed Visa Platinum credit card (no foreign transaction fee) for the wife and I showed up in the mail today....just need to make the call and activate the cards now. I now have a no foreign transaction fee backup credit card to my no foreign transaction fee CapOne Mastercard.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, this PenFed Visa card provides a cash back of 5% on vehicle fuel when "paid at pump." I'm assuming "paid at pump" means one of those self service fuel pumps with built-in credit/debit card point of sale capability...a type of fuel pump I've never seen in Thailand since everything I've experienced has been attendants who pump the fuel and then take your payment via card or cash. And for a card payment they use the normal point of sale machine at the pumps payment area....I seriously doubt this will meet the "paid at pump" requirement to get 5% cash back...but hey, I may get lucky...it would indeed be a nice 5% cash back surprise vs the normal 0.25% PenFed cash back. Just today I filled up using my CapOne Mastercard No Hassle card which provides 2% cash back on fuel purchases so I will need to burn off some diesel before I can check the PenFed card.

But my real objective of getting the PenFed Visa credit card was to have a backup no foreign transaction fee credit card in case CapOne changes its fee policy someday....you just never know when things might change...heck, PenFed may even start charging a foreign transaction fee but right now they don't. The only constant is change.

[ianguygil]

Nice of you to pop in again, Ian...

It reminds me that you and Dave of BKK Bank have never followed through with the commitment made in the other ThaiVisa thread for BKK Bank to publicly post or disclose the bank's policy on cardholder liability for lost or stolen credit cards.

It's now been almost two months since the last post in that thread... and we've heard nothing further from BKK Bank on the issue of its cardholder liability policy... Perhaps you'd care to post some update on that subject while you're in the neighborhood.

Bangkok Bank Will Not Payback Fraudulent Pos Transactions W/Stolen Atm Card

38,940 Baht 6 Point of Sale Transactions B4 Card Cxld & Police Rep

http://www.thaivisa....tolen-atm-card/

<snip>

Ahhh, a classic tactic of a Hack (oops, ex-Hack, or retired-Hack, which one do you prefer to go by?) to ignore the issues raised and to divert attention off onto another issue. The whole point of your misleading and ill informed posts seems to not be something you want to discuss.

As for the item you raised, I am sure Dave will post it once the Thai one is translated.

In the interim, if you personally need any assistance or clarifications I have already given you the contact numbers to call.

I am still active on the forum, I just ignore your whining(posts) most of the time

Edited February 17, 2012 by soundman

[vagabond48]

Hey Tallguy, speaking of updates, I added a comment on the boa/fia thread regarding the boa cc foreign exchange fee.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

As for the item you raised, I am sure Dave will post it once the Thai one is translated.

OK Ian... thanks for that comment. I guess BKK Bank is pretty slow at translating Thai into English, especially considering, according to Dave, it was an already existing policy on cardholder liability... Although there's certainly never been any evidence shown here that BKK Bank really had such a written policy in any language...

But now that you mention it, I'd be happy to see or take a Thai version of the policy, which of course you and Dave have also never posted or offered to provide.... I wonder why???

Meanwhile, I don't have any need to comment further on the CNBC post... It was their information and their article. You're free not to like or agree with it... But I note, you didn't bother to take the time here to post any specific information or country comparisons to the contrary.

Edited February 15, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Hey Tallguy, speaking of updates, I added a comment on the boa/fia thread regarding the boa cc foreign exchange fee.

Hi Vagabond, thanks for giving me a head's up on the other post... I hadn't seen it as yet. Danged ThaiVisa... they keep automatically unsubscribing folks from threads... even though I was the OP for that BofA/FIA thread in the first place...

But I'm glad to hear that your experience confirms, in practice, that the BofA Cash Rewards replacement card for the former Schwab 2% cash back cards really doesn't have any foreign currency fee -- which is consistent with what BofA has told us in recent months, as hard as that may be to believe considering BofA is the source.

A bit of good news to brighten the day... at least for those of us who had the original Schwab 2% credit card.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

heck, PenFed may even start charging a foreign transaction fee but right now they don't. The only constant is change.

I too never say never, Pib... But keep in mind, that PenFed just recently changed several of their credit cards from ones that charged an FCF to ones that now don't charge an FCF... So the likelihood that they'd reverse course again and go back to charging an FCF on those cards seems pretty remote... At least for the foreseeable future...

[ianguygil]

As for the item you raised, I am sure Dave will post it once the Thai one is translated.

OK Ian... thanks for that comment. I guess BKK Bank is pretty slow at translating Thai into English, especially considering, according to Dave, it was an already existing policy on cardholder liability... Although there's certainly never been any evidence shown here that BKK Bank really had such a written policy in any language...

But now that you mention it, I'd be happy to see or take a Thai version of the policy, which of course you and Dave have also never posted or offered to provide.... I wonder why???

Meanwhile, I don't have any need to comment further on the CNBC post... It was their information and their article. You're free not to like or agree with it... But I note, you didn't bother to take the time here to post any specific information or country comparisons to the contrary.

<snip>

Classic from a man who has spent his life commenting on what other people do, journalist (ahem..), public relations. Rather than actually doing something yourself.

You quote CNBC, you make your own summary (incorrect) statements of their findings, and have no idea what the data really means because you prefer to watch a slideshow that actually read the report.

No more time to waste on people like you today. I'd rather spend my time more productively.

Edited February 17, 2012 by soundman

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

No problem, Ian.. I'll let you get back to your translating work... I know it's a tough job... going from Thai to English. If you or Dave need some help, I can ask my housekeeper to pitch in for you... I'm sure she'd be happy to assist.

Meanwhile, I wouldn't want to waste another opportunity to remind folks here that Thai banks typically have a policy that holds their bank card holders responsible for all fraudulent charges up to their credit limit for credit cards or account balance for deposit accounts prior to whatever time they notify the bank in the event their card is lost or stolen -- even if they don't realize the loss or theft right away.

Based on experiences like the one reported by the ThaiVisa member in the thread linked above, BKK Bank appears to have the same kind of policy... But unlike many other banks, BKK Bank doesn't even have the courtesy to post their policy on their website so their customers can be informed of it.

And it's now been about two months since the bank's reps here promised to provide such a cardholder liability policy, and none has been forthcoming -- in English or in Thai.

Edited February 15, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[ianguygil]

No problem, Ian.. I'll let you get back to your translating work... I know it's a tough job... going from Thai to English. If you or Dave need some help, I can ask my housekeeper to pitch in for you... I'm sure she'd be happy to assist.

Meanwhile, I wouldn't want to waste another opportunity to remind folks here that Thai banks typically have a policy that holds their bank card holders responsible for all fraudulent charges up to their credit limit for credit cards or account balance for deposit accounts prior to whatever time they notify the bank in the event their card is lost or stolen -- even if they don't realize the loss or theft right away.

Based on experiences like the one reported by the ThaiVisa member in the thread linked above, BKK Bank appears to have the same kind of policy... But unlike many other banks, BKK Bank doesn't even have the courtesy to post their policy on their website so their customers can be informed of it.

And it's now been about two months since the bank's reps here promised to provide such a cardholder liability policy, and none has been forthcoming -- in English or in Thai.

<snip>

While I understand that you live your life in broadcast mode - why listen when talking will do seems to be your personal creed - as I have made it clear my presence on this forum is as an individual, it is on my own time and it is a personal activity. I am in no way on this forum the Bank's representative. And whenever I do represent the Bank I always insist that members swap to official channels to deal with me.

While you may spend all day on this thread and various other threads and forums as you have nothing else to do in your small and sad little world, I have a job, family and interests. I get online here to try to help people

So please rant on, and you will be ignored. And please post your ill informed statistics from CNBC, no need for you to actually read the report, is there John. As I said, facts are not important, it is volume that matters to you.

In the interim, any other members of this forum are always welcome to PM me and I will see what I can do to help or to advise them. They do not need to be our customers.

BTW, seems your housekeeper is a lot smarter than you. After all these years here you mean you still can not read Thai. Shame on you...

Enjoy!!

Edited February 17, 2012 by soundman

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I'm not going to clutter up this thread by responding to you, Ian...

Two months and counting, and still no cardholder liability policy from BKK Bank. Enough said.

[Pib]

Speaking of PenFed Visa credit cards, the PenFed Visa Platinum credit card (no foreign transaction fee) for the wife and I showed up in the mail today....just need to make the call and activate the cards now. I now have a no foreign transaction fee backup credit card to my no foreign transaction fee CapOne Mastercard.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, this PenFed Visa card provides a cash back of 5% on vehicle fuel when "paid at pump." I'm assuming "paid at pump" means one of those self service fuel pumps with built-in credit/debit card point of sale capability...a type of fuel pump I've never seen in Thailand since everything I've experienced has been attendants who pump the fuel and then take your payment via card or cash. And for a card payment they use the normal point of sale machine at the pumps payment area....I seriously doubt this will meet the "paid at pump" requirement to get 5% cash back...but hey, I may get lucky...it would indeed be a nice 5% cash back surprise vs the normal 0.25% PenFed cash back. Just today I filled up using my CapOne Mastercard No Hassle card which provides 2% cash back on fuel purchases so I will need to burn off some diesel before I can check the PenFed card.

But my real objective of getting the PenFed Visa credit card was to have a backup no foreign transaction fee credit card in case CapOne changes its fee policy someday....you just never know when things might change...heck, PenFed may even start charging a foreign transaction fee but right now they don't. The only constant is change.

Update: As mentioned above I got my PenFed Visa card, have used it a couple of times, and got my first eStatement today which confirmed no foreign transaction fee, you get the Visa exchange rate on transactions, and for that fuel buy I only got the standard cash back of 0.25% versus the fingers-crossed, I sure hope 5% for fuel buys. Oh well, as I mentioned I didn't expect my fuel buy would meet the "paid-at-pump" requirement for the 5% cash back where you slide your card into the pump versus just having the fuel station attendant ring-up the charge on a normal Point-of-Sale machine just like you see in stores. Also confirmed cash back is paid monthly, credited automatically to your monthly statement. So, I will continue to use my Capital One Mastercard which has no foreign transaction fee but gives me 2% cash back on most things like fuel, Lotus/Big C buys, etc., and 1% on everything else. But with the PenFed Visa credit card I now have a backup no foreign transaction fee U.S. credit card in case Capital One ever changes its fee policy.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

A lot of folks here may well have Capital One checking accounts, because of their advantage of having no foreign currency fee. One of the banking blogs I follow has an item lately on a move by Cap One to convert some portion of those currently free accounts into ones with monthly fees, minimum balance or direct deposit requirements.

Capital One Moving Customers Out of Free Checking Accounts

Apr 23, 2012 - 9:14 AM by Ken Tumin

If you currently have a free checking account at Capital One, it may not last much longer. Capital One has been sending letters to customers informing them that their free checking accounts will be converted on 6/5/2012.

This Consumerist article describes the three types of checking accounts being offered. The Consumerist reader was angered by the fact that Capital One was changing his account to a Premier Rewards account unless he selected another one. The Premier Reward Checking has the largest monthly fee and requires the largest balance to avoid the fee. This doesn't appear to be the case for all customers. A DepositAccounts.com reader forwarded me the email she received, and it informed her that she was being moved to the Rewards Checking unless she chose something different.

MORE:

[vagabond48]

I recently got the Capital One CC and today I received an email from them advertising their high yield checking with the following benefits,

• Lock in and earn a rate that's guaranteed to be 5X the national average for the first 12 months on balances up to $100,000
  
• FREE ATMs Anywhere — at any bank!
  
• FREE Checking — no monthly service fee.
  

Their rate as of today is 1%

Does their DC reimburse all fees worldwide?

I didn't see any mention of no foreign exchange fee. It might be hidden in very fine small print.

I've got some cash coming in so I wouldn't mind 1% (as measly as it is).

Edited May 15, 2012 by vagabond48

[vagabond48]

I just opened the Capital One high yield checking account. The DC they are offer only reimburses fees up to $15 per statement so it isn't as good as Schwab or Fidelity, the 2 DCs I have. I don't have the State Farm DC.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Hi Vagabond...

AFAIK, all of Capital One's credit card products have no foreign currency fee.

But, my U.S. address is in a state where Cap One has traditional branches, so I'm locked out of being able to open an online checking account with them.

AFAIK, though, their checking accounts also have no foreign currency fee. I'm not clear, however, on whether or not they absorb the card network's 1% fee.

Cap One also has recently acquired ING Direct's U.S. business, so it will be interesting to see how Cap One integrates ING over time, and whether ING or Cap One's different feature sets are the ones that survive for their online banking products.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

BTW, I believe I've written previously in this thread about the New England-based Service Credit Union (SCU), which is open to anyone with a current or past military affiliation in their family, including parents, etc. One of the advantages of SCU is that they don't charge any foreign currency fee on their checking account debit cards and even reimburse card network ISA fees for qualifying accounts.

Now, also, according to one of the banking blogs I follow, they're having some various promotions for having reached $2 billion in assets. Those promotions include a $150 bonus for new checking account openings and good rates on CDs...

See more info and details at the following news report:

http://www.depositaccounts.com/blog/2012/05/checking-and-cd-deals-at-service-credit-union-limited-membership.html

[TwentyBaht]

Re: Service Credit Union

The Fee Schedule, effective March 12, 2012, now shows a 1% Foreign Transaction Fee for their Visa Debit and Visa Credit cards.

[Pib]

Re: Service Credit Union

The Fee Schedule, effective March 12, 2012, now shows a 1% Foreign Transaction Fee for their Visa Debit and Visa Credit cards.

And what's sad, Service Credit Union is trying to blame it on Visa based on this Service Credit Union Link. And here's their fee schedule Link. As far as I know both Visa and Mastercard charge the 1% foreign transaction fee (have for a long time), but it's up to the debit/credit card issuing bank/organization (like Service Credit Union) if they want to absorb that fee or pass it along to the customer. Apparently, Service Credit Union is no longer going to absorb that fee which effectively keeps more money in their profits coffer. Just a shame they are trying to blame the change on Visa that Service Credit Union will not absorb the fee.

But hey, credit unions generally have a lower overall fee structure than banks....up to each financial business as to what fees it charges...it's their business model. And with financial organizations always making minor/major change to their fee schedule a person really needs consider changing banks when their fees turn the customer into the cash cow....seems a person needs to watch their banks like a hawk nowdays.

Edited May 20, 2012 by Pib

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I think you guys need to be careful about your assumptions here re SCU...

They do not automatically refund the 1% ISA for ALL their accounts... But they DO refund the ISA for qualifying accounts, for which they have certain requirements. AFAIK, they have not recently changed those terms or the benefit of ATM reimbursements and ISA refunds.

The link posted above talks about a VISA change back in 2005....

Here's what their current checking account info page says:

*The number of free withdrawals from non-Service Credit Union ATMs is 20 monthly. ATM surcharges from other financial institutions will be refunded up to $20 a month and International Service Assessment (ISA) fees on debit and credit cards combined will be rebated up to $20 monthly. Eligibility requirements are direct deposit of entire net pay into a Service Credit Union checking account and maintain any balance in all your SCU accounts. Refunds will be applied to account on first business day of the following monthly cycle that the rebate eligibility requirements were met. The rebate benefit is only available for SCU checking accountholders. If the total income reportable equals $600 or more in a taxable year, the credit union may issue you a 1099-MISC. Must be a member of Service Credit Union or eligible for membership to open. Visa is a registered trademark of the Visa International Service Association.

https://www.servicec...ecking.asp?lg=e

I used my SCU account just last month and had all my SCU-imposed per withdrawal ATM charges and ISA fees refunded at month's end, just as the account terms promise. But I also meet their Service Plus Checking qualifying criteria by having my pension check deposited into my SCU account.

And I've received nothing...and see nothing...that suggests their changing the policy I've quoted above.

The 1% ISA would have been in their fees document all along, because they don't reimburse that, and never have, for NON-qualifying accounts.

Admittedly, their web site wording isn't always the easiest to follow, but then that's true of a lot of other banks and credit unions also. The devil's in the details, and you have to be careful to look at everything closely. It took me quite a few chats and calls with SCU before I was finally clear in exactly how they operate on these things.

Here's SCU's current webpage that explains their ATM and ISA reimbursement policy, which as stated above, basically just requires that you have a paycheck direct deposit with them.

They used to have unlimited reimbursements, but also had account balance requirements. Then more recently, they did away with the balance requirement and kept only the direct deposit requirement, but capped reimbursements at $20 per month.

https://www.servicec...t/FreeAtms.asp?

And actually, now that I'm reading their latest info on this subject, they appear to be separating out their reimbursements into two separate $20 categories -- one $20 cap for ATM withdrawal fees charged by other banks, and a separate $20 cap on ISA reimbursements.

You'll get refunded ATM surcharges from other financial institutions up to $20 a month, and ISA fees on debit and credit cards combined will also be rebated up to $20 monthly. In addition, we are increasing the number of free withdrawals from non-SCU ATMs from 10 to 20 per month, so you will never see a fee charged.

Edited May 20, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

Good to hear it still applies for certain accounts...under certain rules...it's always the fine print/details that tells the true story.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Yes..that's right Pib...

However, for the benefits they offer, I don't find using SCU as my direct deposit destination for my pension check to be anything particularly difficult or complicated. It's a one-time form to fill out, and then nothing after that.

No minimum balance required. No POS transactions required. No other hoops to jump thru. For what they offer, it strikes me as a pretty good deal.

[Naam]

Came across a very interesting CNBC article today on who actually holds the U.S.'s nearly $16 trillion national debit...or to be more precise, who are the largest holders of that debt... And it's not who you might think, generally speaking.... By and large, it's Americans, including various parts of our own government, who hold most of that debit, according to the article... Interesting reading...

http://finance.yahoo...gov-t-debt.html

And on the same subject, CNBC also has a slideshow on the world's largest debtor nations, ranked by total debt compared to gross domestic product. The U.S. ranked 20th on the list, with its national debit about equal to its GDP...

But countries on the list with larger debt ratios included Australia, Germany, Hong Kong, France, Norway, Austria, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Belgium #5, Netherlands #4, Switzerland #3, the UK #2, and Ireland #1.

The UK has a total national debt more than 4 times its GDP, and debt equaling almost $147,000 per capita... whereas the U.S. has total debit just slightly larger than GDP (101%) and per capita debt of a bit over $48,000.

http://www.cnbc.com/...0308959?slide=1

and because the ratio debt/gdp and especially debt per capita is completely irrelevant the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus will get together come december and wipe the U.S. debt slate clean

note: the only ratio that counts is "revenue/debt service". neither "gdp" nor "capita" can service and repay debt without generating cash.

-a family of 8 (husband, wife and 6 children) with an income below the taxable amount reduces debt per capita but does not contibute to debt service.

-the hardware (ammunition, missiles, etc) used and destroyed in Iraq and Afghanistan was produced and therefore counted as gdp. but the launched and then lost "gdp" cruise missile did and does not produce any revenue to service debt. of course it has to be replaced and the replacement cost will be added to gdp.

summary: CNBC = either morons or goddàmn liars who bullshit their audience!

take a look at the figures and weep:

[Naam]

These are totally misleading numbers which include the banking sectors for countries which host the headquarters of major international banks or are in themselves offshore banking centers. Do you really believe that Switzerland is in so much worse relative financial shape than the US?

While some poorly run banks have caused their governments and polulations headaches over the past few years, particularly in Ireland, the UK and Iceland, these numbers are misleading and do not illustrate the relative health of the various economies.

I won't get futher into it and recommend that Forum members read the actual reports not the CNBC comicbook summaries. They should state the context for these numbers and not just put it into a pretty picture slideshow for entertainment rather than information.

as i said "CNBC morons or liars!"

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Let's see... that all was about three months ago.... Just now catching up Naam???

[Naam]

Let's see... that all was about three months ago.... Just now catching up Naam???

whether i catch up now or in five years is irrelevant. what counts is that this kind of debt/gdp/per capita nonsense has been published for years and is/will be published over and over again for ignorants to believe and/or to copy and paste in a thread that deals with Americans banking in Thailand.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Thanks for your contribution...as belated as it may be.

Information is just that... information... People are free to value it and interpret as they choose.

Maybe you should take up your grievances with CNBC, which obviously felt, rightly or wrongly, it was worth presenting.

Edited May 20, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Naam]

Thanks for your contribution...as belated as it may be.

Information is just that... information... People are free to value it and interpret as they choose.

Maybe you should take up your grievances with CNBC, which obviously felt, rightly or wrongly, it was worth presenting.

i don't have any grievances with morons or liars. those who believe what morons or liars are telling them should have grievances.

addendum: not to forget that those who copy&paste the rubbish that morons or liars publish should have grievances

Edited May 22, 2012 by Naam

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just wanted to advise that.... Pentagon Federal Credit Union, one of the largest in the U.S., has finally implemented their previously promised IN and OUT-bound online ACH transfer system for their account holders...

And, the especially good news is...according to the CSR email I received in response to my questions, both inbound and outbound ACH transfers done thru the PedFed website are FREE...as in...no fee charged for PFCU members.

The PFCU website and the info I received from their CSR indicate that the ACH transfers are limited to $5,000 per day per member.

I've already set up and linked two of my external bank accounts, and it was the normal, relatively easy process of confirming two small trial deposits that PFCU places into your external account. I forgot to ask if they had any limit on the total number of external accounts that could be linked.

Here's the additional info on the delivery times for in and outbound ACH transfers that the PFCU CSR emailed to me:

For incoming ACH transfers, the funds are automatically available in your PenFed account and may take up to 24 to 48 hours to debit from your external account.

However, for outgoing ACH transfers, the funds are debited immediately from your PenFed account and processing time may differ in regard to how long the deposit takes to reach your external account. Generally, the deposit will occur within 24 to 48 hours as well, but we recommend contacting any external institution you may be transferring to for further information regarding incoming ACH transfers.

For me, this represents another nice addition to the PFCU lineup of attractive services, including their recent move to abolish foreign currency fees on their various credit card offerings.

[Pib]

That's good to know. I joined in Jan 12 when I applied/got their now foreign transaction fee Visa debit card as a backup to another no foeign transaction fee credit card. At that time I setup two inbound/pull money transfer links to two other bank accounts since it didn't allow "outbound" transfers at that time.

I just logged onto my PenFed account and played with the Funds Transfer module and could tell it would now allow me to setup funds transfer links which would allow transfer "to" other banks...and it would show those two links can be used for in or out transfers versus the previous "in" only.

Unfortunately for me since I'm still considered a new member until I get six months under my belt come July 12 it said I was still limited to $50 transfer in or out...no $5000/day yet. But hey, before I was limited to $50 "in" only (standard for new members at the time...now it appears it will be $50 in and out for six months)...at least now I can also transfer $50 "out"...once I get six months membership under my belt and earn my PenFed merit badge the in and out limit per day will be $5000.

I told PenFed months back in some email back and forth asking about their new member $50/day external transfer policy that $50 is just too low. Heck, if you wanted to pay any PenFed credit card bill over $50 (say it was a $500 bill) by transferring money from your PenFed Savings account to the PenFed credit card but you first had to pull money from another bank account to plus up your PenFed Savings account you could only pull-in $50 per day...it would take you 10 transfers over 10 days to pull-in $500. But why waste time doing that when I could instead log onto my other bank account and "push" $500 to my PenFed account in one transfer. The current $50/day transfer limit for new member with less than 6 months membership is just toooooooo low...almost ridiculously low IMHO....in setting up new bank accounts I've never experienced such a low daily transfer amount for new members. Oh well, July is almost here and their no foreign transaction fee Visa debit card is just a backup/will only get used a few times per year just to confirm it still works and to show usage.