Use Of 'Kraap' By A Female

[trevorg]

Dear experts

The female 'judge' was using Kraap/kaap at the end of every sentence when speaking to the contestants (male and female), although she is obviously female. When I questioned my wife about this 'broken basic rule', she said that it was normal! So I'm confused. Does it go beyond male/ female and into 'I'm more important than you' regardless of gender.

By the way, I missed Moto GP qualifying to watch this as my 11 yo step-daughter wanted to watch it! I'm such a great step-dad! I'll watch the qualifying before the race tomorrow!

Thanks in advance for your knowledge.

Trevor

P.S. Don't spoil my fun by telling me about Moto GP qualifying results.

[danbradster]

Girls can say kha or khrap, but usually say kha.

Guys can only say khrap unless they are gay or katoey.

I remember my girlfriend saying something like the above.

[mikenyork]

Adults often, maybe even usually, adopt the polite ending of the gender of a child being spoken to in a situation that requires a formal tone of address. Thus an adult woman, speaking to a boy child, especially in a situation that requires a certain degree of formality, will normally adopt the male ending khap (khrap). The same, contrary to an earlier post, is true for an adult man speaking to a female child, he will normally use Kha as a polite ending. I have also heard Thai men use kha when addressing young women (adults, but much younger than they). I am told by KISO that this is a sort of "sugar daddy", semi-flirtatious way of speaking.

[sbk]

Yes, women will usually address a young child with kraap if a boy and kha if a girl, reinforcing the correct word to be spoken by that child, if the contestants were adults, then no, I can't say I have heard that too often

[trevorg]

Thank you, I thought it was weird - but obviously it's not! What is KISO?

Same as Simon Cowell, saying love you and darling (on X factor to children contestants)! I suppose!

I managed to vote off the least talented ones (they can't sing, are full of themselves - the Thai public agreed with me) without resulting to text messages or understanding what the judges said!

Thanks again for clearing up the Kaap thing!

Trevor

[mikenyork]

Thank you, I thought it was weird - but obviously it's not! What is KISO?

Same as Simon Cowell, saying love you and darling (on X factor to children contestants)! I suppose!

I managed to vote off the least talented ones (they can't sing, are full of themselves - the Thai public agreed with me) without resulting to text messages or understanding what the judges said!

Thanks again for clearing up the Kaap thing!

Trevor

"KISO"-- "Key informant/significant other". Not my wife. Don't care much for "girlfriend", partly because it had a pretty much completely different meaning in my youth (which was only the last century, not, as my grandchildren think, the century before last). She's not my "friend" either. There isn't a good word in English, so I invented an acronym.

[trevorg]

Yes, women will usually address a young child with kraap if a boy and kha if a girl, reinforcing the correct word to be spoken by that child, if the contestants were adults, then no, I can't say I have heard that too often

100% agree about the reinforcing of the correct word when teaching a toddler! The contestants are probably 15-30+, and trying to make their way in Fame land, so adults. That's why I was confused by the judges words!

Once again sbk - your response is most useful!

[mikenyork]

The "khap" thing isn't limited to toddlers by any means. Female teachers in the government school where I taught a few years ago normally addressed male high school students with "khap". Some of these contestants were obviously young adults, but I guess in the judge's mind it was still similar to a teacher/student relationship. Maybe that's why she did it. On the other hand, a far more likely explanation is that TIT.

[trevorg]

The "khap" thing isn't limited to toddlers by any means. Female teachers in the government school where I taught a few years ago normally addressed male high school students with "khap". Some of these contestants were obviously young adults, but I guess in the judge's mind it was still similar to a teacher/student relationship. Maybe that's why she did it. On the other hand, a far more likely explanation is that TIT.

You are so right Nong Mike kaa!

[Arjuna93]

Several times have heard Thai girls using "kap" instead of "kaa". Not related to any specific context.

[Peppy]

The judge on Academy Fantasia who says "krap" to the male contestants is Tata Young (of Sexy-Naughty-Bitchy Me fame). I imagine she thinks it sounds "cute", since it's normally only used by adult females when talking to pre-school age boys--I think it just sounds affected and condescending.

[mikenyork]

I repeat what I said in an earlier post. The use of khap (or khrap) by female speakers when addressing boys is not limited to those of preschool age. Teachers at the government high school in which I taught a few years ago used this polite ending without fail when speaking to male high school students. They also used the pronoun theu with boys, both in second and third person sentences. My significant other routinely uses it when speaking to her nephew who is 16 or 17. It's very, very commonly used up until the age of majority. But it seems that Khun Tata is perhaps stretching the envelope a bit to use it with 20 or 30 somethings.

[SteeleJoe]

I repeat what I said in an earlier post. The use of khap (or khrap) by female speakers when addressing boys is not limited to those of preschool age. Teachers at the government high school in which I taught a few years ago used this polite ending without fail when speaking to male high school students. They also used the pronoun theu with boys, both in second and third person sentences. My significant other routinely uses it when speaking to her nephew who is 16 or 17. It's very, very commonly used up until the age of majority. But it seems that Khun Tata is perhaps stretching the envelope a bit to use it with 20 or 30 somethings.

Spot on comments throughout the thread -- stuff that I was all set to answer!

But Tata has always been...well, a bit OTT and self-impressed, to say the least. And though I haven't seen it since the first season, it was my understanding that AF -- in an effort to capture bettre ratings -- now feature primarily or exclusively teenage contestants...

[sourcherry]

Girls can say kha or khrap, but usually say kha.

Guys can only say khrap unless they are gay or katoey.

I remember my girlfriend saying something like the above.

Hi I somewhat disagree with the latter. Guys can use "kha" when they're speaking to young girls too. A father can use "kha" with his daughter. So they don't always have to be effeminate.

[trevorg]

Thanks for the responses, 1 week on and I have learnt that it was Tata Young, she's been demoted from the judging panel and is sitting in the audience making comments - (she appears to have dropped the Khrap thing). The replacement looks fairly similar, but is much less annoying!

I also understand the use of the 'incorrect' (for the speaker) terminology in order to teach toddlers and young children how they should address the people that they are speaking to!

I've been reliably informed by my gorgeous wife that the contestants on FA are 15-27! I assume that they don't need to be taught! However, I can also understand how this may be used in formal situations between a teacher and a student!

My new pet hate is Na Rak Na from this programme! Only joking! My stepdaughter will be getting a 6' C band satellite dish (with dual feeds) for her birthday in September as otherwise this will interfere with EPL (English Premier League) games!

Thanks again!

[boggle]

Mrs boggle uses Krap when she is out with her female mates all the time. I questioned her about this many yeras ago and was informed it is used as playful, sacastic when girls are with their mates.

Since then I have noticed many girls/ladies, of all social standings, when having a few drinks with their mates using Krap.

My staff even use it as a sacastic way to speek to some of the male staff to show displeasure.

All in all I hear this a lot.

[asdecas]

Indeed, both male and female Thais will often use the opposite gender-specific particle as a means of having fun, being amusing, playing a role or acting around their friends and for effect. This in addition to the teaching usage mentioned above. I've tried my hand at it myself occasionally, with mixed results

Edited July 24, 2011 by asdecas

[Peppy]

Thanks for the responses, 1 week on and I have learnt that it was Tata Young, she's been demoted from the judging panel and is sitting in the audience making comments - (she appears to have dropped the Khrap thing). The replacement looks fairly similar, but is much less annoying!

She hasn't been demoted--it's just that this week all the female contestants were singing her songs (and the male contestants were singing the songs of the other judge who sat out this week, Maew Jirasak) and they probably felt it wouldn't be fair to have somebody judging their own work.

I'm sure she'll be back to khrapping on the boys next week.

[trevorg]

Thanks for the responses, 1 week on and I have learnt that it was Tata Young, she's been demoted from the judging panel and is sitting in the audience making comments - (she appears to have dropped the Khrap thing). The replacement looks fairly similar, but is much less annoying!

She hasn't been demoted--it's just that this week all the female contestants were singing her songs (and the male contestants were singing the songs of the other judge who sat out this week, Maew Jirasak) and they probably felt it wouldn't be fair to have somebody judging their own work.

I'm sure she'll be back to khrapping on the boys next week.

Khnun rakh ma kapp na raak kaap! (or something similar) x

[Raesum]

Indeed, both male and female Thais will often use the opposite gender-specific particle as a means of having fun, being amusing, playing a role or acting around their friends and for effect. This in addition to the teaching usage mentioned above. I've tried my hand at it myself occasionally, with mixed results

My (Thai sister-in laws) and myself on occasion use the Khraap option-especially when our husbands are being boorish or bossy or just plain nagging.It gives them the message-Yes we understand, we hear you- but as for "obeying"-Think again "mate". Its not as bad as it sounds and always draws a laugh from both sides.

[bifftastic]

Indeed, both male and female Thais will often use the opposite gender-specific particle as a means of having fun, being amusing, playing a role or acting around their friends and for effect. This in addition to the teaching usage mentioned above. I've tried my hand at it myself occasionally, with mixed results

My (Thai sister-in laws) and myself on occasion use the Khraap option-especially when our husbands are being boorish or bossy or just plain nagging.It gives them the message-Yes we understand, we hear you- but as for "obeying"-Think again "mate". Its not as bad as it sounds and always draws a laugh from both sides.

Aaaah, so THAT'S why my wife uses it! :lol:Thanks

[trevorg]

Indeed, both male and female Thais will often use the opposite gender-specific particle as a means of having fun, being amusing, playing a role or acting around their friends and for effect. This in addition to the teaching usage mentioned above. I've tried my hand at it myself occasionally, with mixed results

My (Thai sister-in laws) and myself on occasion use the Khraap option-especially when our husbands are being boorish or bossy or just plain nagging.It gives them the message-Yes we understand, we hear you- but as for "obeying"-Think again "mate". Its not as bad as it sounds and always draws a laugh from both sides.

I'd definitely take the hint! And go home as instructed.

How simple is that! xx

[Ajaan]

Yes, "khrap" (and to a lesser extent, "khaa") is very often used in a joking, sarcastic fashion. One way to relate this to English is, imagine you're talking to your friend and you say something your friend considers to be a bit pompous, or bossy, or maybe condescending...they then stiffen their posture and give you a military salute, maybe adding "yes SIR!" That's exactly how "khrap" is used sarcastically.

Let's not forget--and I think this helps to maybe understand all these "specialized uses of khrap" [teaching children how to be "good Thais," responding to others' sarcastically, often to deflate their hyper-seriousness, etc.]--that "khrap" and "khaa" are both fairly recent additions to the Thai language (1930-40s) and that they were basically forced down people's throats in social engineering campaigns designs to create "modern," "civilized" Thais.

Unlike many government language engineering efforts, this one pretty much *worked*...but it shouldn't be surprising that some remnants of resistance/mocking of the terms has carried over into sarcastic usage today, nor should it be surprising that many of the "good modern Thais" brainwashed/created by these social engineering programs now see it as their duty to carry on the "civilizing mission" by daily making efforts to teach children how to be "good modern Thais"...

Edited July 24, 2011 by Ajaan

[Hardie]

Northern Thai is better- anybody can say 'gaa'...

[elektrified]

I often hear females use khrap, sometime they are lesbians and sometimes not.

[Trembly]

When Thai females say khrap to adult males / Thai males say kha to adult females they are either just having a laff or they are being patronising.

Not a million miles away from English females saying "mate" / males saying "darling".

Edited July 24, 2011 by Trembly