Foreigners As Undercover Police Informers

[Basil B]

There must be plenty of "News International" ex or soon to be exemployees who woud do it, they are experts at undercover work especially phone tapping, they would even sell their grandmothers...

[Exsexyman]

I guess you have to be a special kind of person to RAT on some one.

You have hit the nail on the head. I know in the UK, police informants are almost exclusively career criminals who do it for two reasons. To keep themselves out of prison after they have been caught, and for the money.Can be quite lucrative for some when payments from insurance companies are taken into account. Also many of them are given 'permission' to carry on with their criminal activities, within reason. A very dangerous game of course, bearing in mind what would happen to them if they are discovered. The 'specimens' we have here in Pattaya are a different kettle of fish altogether. They are police volunteers, the operative word being, VOLUNTEERS. They are given a uniform, which im sure is the most important part for most of them, a big badge, walkie talkies etc. Im sure most of them would love to have been real policemen in falangland, but just didn't make the grade. Sometimes they are made to feel very important and told, "Tonight you are going undercover in plain clothes". The poor misguided sap will be sent into a bar in soi six or wherever, to a bar that has fallen behind with tea money payments. He will be given some marked banknotes, and after he has procured the sexual services of one of the employees he will dial a number on his phone, and the BIB come steaming in through the back door to arrest every body and close the bar. A couple of days later said bar will be open again. This exact scenario happened a while back, but we all know this happens all the time. The point is that the falang undercover man acting as an agent provocateur is not doing it under coercion or for money, (although im sure they get a drink). They volunteer for the role. The ironic thing is that the Thai police who send them in, probably hold them in utter contempt for stitching up their own kind. So why do they do it? Trying to ingratiate themselves with the Thai powers that be? This possibly comes into it. A misguided sense of righting wrongs? I don't think so. They do it for personal pleasure. Lower than a snake's belly IMHO.

[surayu]

This is a broad view topic, let's say, if i see a "farang" doing things like selling drugs to small kids, i would have problems in restrain myself, don't need any external inputs in take action first hand.

Reporting these, will likely let you face the boss of these dealers, which have power and can really give you a hard time, really sad.

Is common knowledge that foreigner volounteers have no working permits, so, in facts they are asking you to break the law and i am sure you don't want to do that.

If they seize your passport and you are unable to leave, consulates can issue a special permit to fly out, but they will ask you for a police's reports explaining of what happened to it.....so, after you explain to the consul your particular circumstances(oblige to break the law or face "tortures", yes that's what thai prison times should be described as, outside of a third world country), perhaps he will help you out, do it now!.

[FarangBuddha]

Anything that takes out the fereng pimps and panderers operating in Pattaya/Thailand has my most hearty support

[RabC]

I guess you have to be a special kind of person to RAT on some one.

You have hit the nail on the head. I know in the UK, police informants are almost exclusively career criminals who do it for two reasons. To keep themselves out of prison after they have been caught, and for the money.Can be quite lucrative for some when payments from insurance companies are taken into account. Also many of them are given 'permission' to carry on with their criminal activities, within reason. A very dangerous game of course, bearing in mind what would happen to them if they are discovered. The 'specimens' we have here in Pattaya are a different kettle of fish altogether. They are police volunteers, the operative word being, VOLUNTEERS. They are given a uniform, which im sure is the most important part for most of them, a big badge, walkie talkies etc. Im sure most of them would love to have been real policemen in falangland, but just didn't make the grade. Sometimes they are made to feel very important and told, "Tonight you are going undercover in plain clothes". The poor misguided sap will be sent into a bar in soi six or wherever, to a bar that has fallen behind with tea money payments. He will be given some marked banknotes, and after he has procured the sexual services of one of the employees he will dial a number on his phone, and the BIB come steaming in through the back door to arrest every body and close the bar. A couple of days later said bar will be open again. This exact scenario happened a while back, but we all know this happens all the time. The point is that the falang undercover man acting as an agent provocateur is not doing it under coercion or for money, (although im sure they get a drink). They volunteer for the role. The ironic thing is that the Thai police who send them in, probably hold them in utter contempt for stitching up their own kind. So why do they do it? Trying to ingratiate themselves with the Thai powers that be? This possibly comes into it. A misguided sense of righting wrongs? I don't think so. They do it for personal pleasure. Lower than a snake's belly IMHO.

+1

[Wallaby]

No way in the world would I inform on anyone. That is the job for the police. I don't care if I go to the gallows, I'm not doing it. Why should someone else pay for something I have done to get myself into the mess.

Definitely NOT.

Good honourable man,u go to the gallows for a stranger,my hero

Ha ha ha. One week in the Bangkok Hilton and you would be singing like a canary. That I'm sure.

It isn't ratting on someone, it is called being a dog. I'm not wishing to be anyone's hero, I couldn't give a flying fig whether someone likes it or not. I haven't been brought up to dog on people just because I want a lighter sentence for something that I have done.

If I have done something to be in that situation then I will wear whatever the sentence is, It's my problem and on one elses. A lifetime in the Bangkok Hilton would not sway my view nor make me dog on someone.

[rgs2001uk]

I guess you have to be a special kind of person to RAT on some one.

You have hit the nail on the head. I know in the UK, police informants are almost exclusively career criminals who do it for two reasons. To keep themselves out of prison after they have been caught, and for the money.Can be quite lucrative for some when payments from insurance companies are taken into account. Also many of them are given 'permission' to carry on with their criminal activities, within reason. A very dangerous game of course, bearing in mind what would happen to them if they are discovered. The 'specimens' we have here in Pattaya are a different kettle of fish altogether. They are police volunteers, the operative word being, VOLUNTEERS. They are given a uniform, which im sure is the most important part for most of them, a big badge, walkie talkies etc. Im sure most of them would love to have been real policemen in falangland, but just didn't make the grade. Sometimes they are made to feel very important and told, "Tonight you are going undercover in plain clothes". The poor misguided sap will be sent into a bar in soi six or wherever, to a bar that has fallen behind with tea money payments. He will be given some marked banknotes, and after he has procured the sexual services of one of the employees he will dial a number on his phone, and the BIB come steaming in through the back door to arrest every body and close the bar. A couple of days later said bar will be open again. This exact scenario happened a while back, but we all know this happens all the time. The point is that the falang undercover man acting as an agent provocateur is not doing it under coercion or for money, (although im sure they get a drink). They volunteer for the role. The ironic thing is that the Thai police who send them in, probably hold them in utter contempt for stitching up their own kind. So why do they do it? Trying to ingratiate themselves with the Thai powers that be? This possibly comes into it. A misguided sense of righting wrongs? I don't think so. They do it for personal pleasure. Lower than a snake's belly IMHO.

+1

+ another.

Social outcasts/misfits in their own countries they come rushing to Thailand trying to get a life and or wife, pretty soon revert back to their former Billy no mates life.

"Sometimes they are made to feel very important " sums it up perfectly, losers seeking acceptance.

Scum to be avoided at all costs.

[alexth]

By reading most of the posts, would make one believe that we're living in the best community ever, but it's annoying to read all that while we all know what the truth is. This country is filled with snitches, most of the folks would rat on the farang next door just for sports.

[Exsexyman]

No way in the world would I inform on anyone. That is the job for the police. I don't care if I go to the gallows, I'm not doing it. Why should someone else pay for something I have done to get myself into the mess.

Definitely NOT.

Good honourable man,u go to the gallows for a stranger,my hero

Ha ha ha. One week in the Bangkok Hilton and you would be singing like a canary. That I'm sure.

It isn't ratting on someone, it is called being a dog. I'm not wishing to be anyone's hero, I couldn't give a flying fig whether someone likes it or not. I haven't been brought up to dog on people just because I want a lighter sentence for something that I have done.

If I have done something to be in that situation then I will wear whatever the sentence is, It's my problem and on one elses. A lifetime in the Bangkok Hilton would not sway my view nor make me dog on someone.

Well said Wallaby. It's called "being a man of principles", which you clearly are.

[smedly]

most of you guys talk the biggest load of crap I have ever read on a thai forum, the issue is not about falangs helping police - good on them for trying to help keep control of criminals here of which there are a fair share of falangs, it;s not about good people shopping criminals, it's about criminals getting caught and shopping other criminals, good people that abide by the law will always shop a criminal where safe to do so, I would go out of my way to do it, if you choose to live a criminal life the chances of getting caught are high - small fish will rat on big fish period, do your history - many of the most notable criminals of the last 100 years where caught and convicted by fellow criminals ratting them out - the more the better

and just to be clear about it, criminal types I would gladly turn in are - thieves - money exstorters - paedo's - drunk drivers (because they put me at risk) drug dealers - murderers, might be a few more but thats what springs to mind

Edited July 17, 2011 by smedly

[lonewolf99]

most of you guys talk the biggest load of crap I have ever read on a thai forum, the issue is not about falangs helping police - good on them for trying to help keep control of criminals here of which there are a fair share of falangs, it;s not about good people shopping criminals, it's about criminals getting caught and shopping other criminals, good people that abide by the law will always shop a criminal where safe to do so, I would go out of my way to do it, if you choose to live a criminal life the chances of getting caught are high - small fish will rat on big fish period, do your history - many of the most notable criminals of the last 100 years where caught and convicted by fellow criminals ratting them out - the more the better

and just to be clear about it, criminal types I would gladly turn in are - thieves - money exstorters - paedo's - drunk drivers (because they put me at risk) drug dealers - murderers, might be a few more but thats what springs to mind

I totally agree....but with the crappy legal system here and corrupt cops you might get in some dire trouble for shopping murdering drug pushers...?

I personally know of one young very stupid Englishman who was involved with drug pushing here, got caught and was turned into an "informer" and it got so hot for him he did a runner over the Malaysian border and managed to get a one way ticket home to Blighty....but can never come back to LoS for a thousand years.....sadly he left a Thai wife and small child behind....

and as for my opinion of the ex-pats who join up with this volunteer nonsense........I would be banned from Thai Visa for a thousand years if I typed what I really thought....is there any other country in the world that has such an organisation ? especially one that does not do proper background checks...???

[alexth]

most of you guys talk the biggest load of crap I have ever read on a thai forum, the issue is not about falangs helping police - good on them for trying to help keep control of criminals here of which there are a fair share of falangs, it;s not about good people shopping criminals, it's about criminals getting caught and shopping other criminals, good people that abide by the law will always shop a criminal where safe to do so, I would go out of my way to do it, if you choose to live a criminal life the chances of getting caught are high - small fish will rat on big fish period, do your history - many of the most notable criminals of the last 100 years where caught and convicted by fellow criminals ratting them out - the more the better

and just to be clear about it, criminal types I would gladly turn in are - thieves - money exstorters - paedo's - drunk drivers (because they put me at risk) drug dealers - murderers, might be a few more but thats what springs to mind

You MUST be American

[smedly]

most of you guys talk the biggest load of crap I have ever read on a thai forum, the issue is not about falangs helping police - good on them for trying to help keep control of criminals here of which there are a fair share of falangs, it;s not about good people shopping criminals, it's about criminals getting caught and shopping other criminals, good people that abide by the law will always shop a criminal where safe to do so, I would go out of my way to do it, if you choose to live a criminal life the chances of getting caught are high - small fish will rat on big fish period, do your history - many of the most notable criminals of the last 100 years where caught and convicted by fellow criminals ratting them out - the more the better

and just to be clear about it, criminal types I would gladly turn in are - thieves - money exstorters - paedo's - drunk drivers (because they put me at risk) drug dealers - murderers, might be a few more but thats what springs to mind

I totally agree....but with the crappy legal system here and corrupt cops you might get in some dire trouble for shopping murdering drug pushers...?

I personally know of one young very stupid Englishman who was involved with drug pushing here, got caught and was turned into an "informer" and it got so hot for him he did a runner over the Malaysian border and managed to get a one way ticket home to Blighty....but can never come back to LoS for a thousand years.....sadly he left a Thai wife and small child behind....

and as for my opinion of the ex-pats who join up with this volunteer nonsense........I would be banned from Thai Visa for a thousand years if I typed what I really thought....is there any other country in the world that has such an organisation ? especially one that does not do proper background checks...???

some valid points there and yes assisting an already corrupt police force is questionable, it all depends on your own moral standards, I have seen many people here fall foul of various crimes over the years most of them brought it with them from their home countries, I tend to stay away from people and places that are fronting criminal activities as I also know inocents that got into big trouble for hanging with the wrong people, I must admit paedo's make my skin crawl

[manarak]

Depends on the crimes I should inform about and on the rewards.

A threat by police to go to jail if I don't comply is certainly serious enough for me to leave the country.

So, using Timekeeper's tactics is probably the right thing to do.

Now, if the police asked for help (without threats) for arresting drug dealers, slavers, human traffickers, murderers, fraudsters and con artists, etc. I would have no ethical problems doing that.

About work permits and overstays, I would probably tip the offender off if they are "good guys". If the target is a retired thug who works without permit while overstaying and beating his wife after going home drunk every day... well, no reservations either.

But there should be some kind of reward for doing that job for the police.

Maybe getting the police general's signature on the permanent residency application and maybe one of those autographed business cards they hand out to friends? these are really useful!

Edited July 17, 2011 by manarak

[kamluan]

snitching is one of the worse crimes against human nature

and should be penalized the hard can turn back penalty

how low you can be doing snitching because of the police force you to

if there's a heaven and hell at the end the snitch will burn burn and burn

[Rumpole]

I have been an expat for over 20yrs now and nowhere have I seen such outright aggression toward fellow countrymen than I see here in Thailand. The situation is that NOBODY has any security here in this land, and with no viable avenue of justice, turn on each other like drowning rats.

So very true.

Thailand red in tooth and claw!

[skippybangkok]

Depends on the crimes I should inform about and on the rewards.

A threat by police to go to jail if I don't comply is certainly serious enough for me to leave the country.

So, using Timekeeper's tactics is probably the right thing to do.

Now, if the police asked for help (without threats) for arresting drug dealers, slavers, human traffickers, murderers, fraudsters and con artists, etc. I would have no ethical problems doing that.

About work permits and overstays, I would probably tip the offender off if they are "good guys". If the target is a retired thug who works without permit while overstaying and beating his wife after going home drunk every day... well, no reservations either.

But there should be some kind of reward for doing that job for the police.

Maybe getting the police general's signature on the permanent residency application and maybe one of those autographed business cards they hand out to friends? these are really useful!

Mixed feeling on this one...... if against genuine drug dealers, paedophiles etc...... would not have a problem with it. But in reality, the cops dont get off their ass until someone pays them....... and as such their independence and reasons for the arrest are questionable.

[hotandhumid]

I have been an expat for over 20yrs now and nowhere have I seen such outright aggression toward fellow countrymen than I see here in Thailand. The situation is that NOBODY has any security here in this land, and with no viable avenue of justice, turn on each other like drowning rats.

So very true.

Thailand red in tooth and claw!

Agree. This is why I never go out of my way to make 'friends' here. My real friends are back home, if you fond 1 or 2 real friends here then you are lucky.

[sharecropper]

snitching is one of the worse crimes against human nature

and should be penalized the hard can turn back penalty

how low you can be doing snitching because of the police force you to

if there's a heaven and hell at the end the snitch will burn burn and burn

Yet half of Pattaya's police drug busts seem to depend on a time-honoured Thai tradition of ratting out your own supplier, as each dealer caught snitches up the food chain.

So maybe the moral (and life-harming/threatening) considerations foreigners might have not to do it in their own countries are not relevant in this law-enforcement system?

[sharecropper]

Depends on the crimes I should inform about and on the rewards.

A threat by police to go to jail if I don't comply is certainly serious enough for me to leave the country.

So, using Timekeeper's tactics is probably the right thing to do.

Now, if the police asked for help (without threats) for arresting drug dealers, slavers, human traffickers, murderers, fraudsters and con artists, etc. I would have no ethical problems doing that.

About work permits and overstays, I would probably tip the offender off if they are "good guys". If the target is a retired thug who works without permit while overstaying and beating his wife after going home drunk every day... well, no reservations either.

But there should be some kind of reward for doing that job for the police.

Maybe getting the police general's signature on the permanent residency application and maybe one of those autographed business cards they hand out to friends? these are really useful!

Mixed feeling on this one...... if against genuine drug dealers, paedophiles etc...... would not have a problem with it. But in reality, the cops dont get off their ass until someone pays them....... and as such their independence and reasons for the arrest are questionable.

And of course you may find yourself encroaching onto their own "supply operations" in your role as a snitch, so who will save you then!

[robia6]

Totally agree, Exsexyman, well said!

I guess you have to be a special kind of person to RAT on some one.

You have hit the nail on the head. I know in the UK, police informants are almost exclusively career criminals who do it for two reasons. To keep themselves out of prison after they have been caught, and for the money.Can be quite lucrative for some when payments from insurance companies are taken into account. Also many of them are given 'permission' to carry on with their criminal activities, within reason. A very dangerous game of course, bearing in mind what would happen to them if they are discovered. The 'specimens' we have here in Pattaya are a different kettle of fish altogether. They are police volunteers, the operative word being, VOLUNTEERS. They are given a uniform, which im sure is the most important part for most of them, a big badge, walkie talkies etc. Im sure most of them would love to have been real policemen in falangland, but just didn't make the grade. Sometimes they are made to feel very important and told, "Tonight you are going undercover in plain clothes". The poor misguided sap will be sent into a bar in soi six or wherever, to a bar that has fallen behind with tea money payments. He will be given some marked banknotes, and after he has procured the sexual services of one of the employees he will dial a number on his phone, and the BIB come steaming in through the back door to arrest every body and close the bar. A couple of days later said bar will be open again. This exact scenario happened a while back, but we all know this happens all the time. The point is that the falang undercover man acting as an agent provocateur is not doing it under coercion or for money, (although im sure they get a drink). They volunteer for the role. The ironic thing is that the Thai police who send them in, probably hold them in utter contempt for stitching up their own kind. So why do they do it? Trying to ingratiate themselves with the Thai powers that be? This possibly comes into it. A misguided sense of righting wrongs? I don't think so. They do it for personal pleasure. Lower than a snake's belly IMHO.

[smedly]

simple truth here is that in society we have criminals - non criminals - and a social policing and justice system to supposedly protect the non criminals and uphold the law - if you are a criminal you tend to despise the act of "ratting" very easy to see from this thread which side of the fence you are on - not hard to figure

[Jimmyd]

some valid points there and yes assisting an already corrupt police force is questionable,...

To me that is the main point: It is immoral and corrupt, in my opinion, to assist a corrupt organization.

[manarak]

some valid points there and yes assisting an already corrupt police force is questionable,...

To me that is the main point: It is immoral and corrupt, in my opinion, to assist a corrupt organization.

that is if you suppose all their cases are only based on corruption, either paid for doing something or doing something and hoping getting paid to forget about it.

The overwhelming part of criminal investigations police work in Thailand is not done by police for personal gain.

We just hear about the maybe 3 or 5% of cases where money is involved - not to say that this figure is low, but let's put thinks in perspective.

In any case, if you help police to get a murderer, you are not assisting a corrupt organization. There is always a risk of criminals finding a corrupt officer to let them go free, but at least it won't come cheap! LOL

[TheShockMaster]

It' more dangerous than it's worth. Could you imagine taking down the wrong kind of bar... one which is maintained by a group of Eastern Europeans may I say. You'd be living in fear the rest of your life.

[norrona]

as far as RATS go there was a huge one who I think still resides in that town.

He used to drive about in a Porsche Cayenne then a Mercedes Roadster(not bought from his money as he never had any but with money entrusted to him), was very familiar with the BIB and used to do them favours all the time, they even see him with his gun on his hip and were not fazed by it one bit...he got them to lock me up on frivilous charges whist trying to extract my assets from me.

They the BIB took my passport and said they would update the visa stamps if need be so I was never on overstay...had it for 2 months, luckily for me my lawyer was owed money by the RAT as he paraded himself about town as a real estate agent and had done some work for him that apparently he was unsatisfied about so never paid.

I never got squeezed into doing any kind of informant work but this was nearly 5 years ago, reason for my post is theres people out there who don't even need to be turned informant...they will gladly do it and pass it off as getting rid of the filth and scum that inhabit the town and doing other farangs a favour!

part of the reason of the fall out was the transition of business partner to complete yellow bellied wrong un and GRASS...it was something I personally couldn't stomach!

Moral of the story-be careful who you go into business with

is that dutch elvis fella still grassing out of interest?

[alexth]

It' more dangerous than it's worth. Could you imagine taking down the wrong kind of bar... one which is maintained by a group of Eastern Europeans may I say. You'd be living in fear the rest of your life.

There's a very easy solution for that. Mind your own business and don't rat people out. So simple

[surayu]

So, it's the disguised recruiting operation still on? how many outstanding members of this forum did you get, it must be quite a few that are all up for it.

"Do you love me baby?"

"Khaa, RAT khuun"

[a99az]

Good Morning I,would have no problem to Kick a butt hole and do informing if what he do has negative side effects for Us. 10/4

Nice try, how about: I would have no problem kicking a butt hole, and becoming an informer if it threatened us, OK.

[a99az]

I just emailed this thread to soi 9

Why would you e-mail it to me?