Many Thais Say Corruption Is Acceptable If Country Prospers, Poll Finds

[DumFarang]

It's also worth noting that corruption and bribing etc., in general, is more common in poorer places around the world because it serves as another means of making money where not enough exist.

I'm from the southern part of the U.S. and, while less common now, it has historically been poorer than other regions of the country and has always had more corruption akin to what is seen so commonly in Thailand. Louisiana is still quite a poor state and the corruption is unbelievable for the average American to fathom when compared to most of the rest of the country. New Orleans can be just as much of a confusing place as anywhere I've ever been in SEA. Just like here it's a place containing the haves and have nots. People from more affluent places around the world have the luxury of looking down on it, but for many people who aren't above some form of corruption their title for it is "getting by."

[hellodolly]

here we go again with the thais on the site trying to defend what is obviously disgusting behaviour replying with " look at your country", and "thais are happy with things as they are ",.......... PATHETIC !!, they only THINK they are happy with the way things are here becouse they have never known it any other way , as one commentor stated "its in the thais DNA", ....again its all down to education, how easy are thais to believe what they see on tv ??? ,...... the easiest way to make a million $ in thailand must be to put an advert on TV stating your ' wonder cream' is the fasted and the 'best ever' at making your skin white.........., and when it evidently fails to work , what recourse do thais have ???,..........mmmmm , so gullible its amazing,....ever tried to get your money back from a shop in thailand ??, unless its from an american or european chain you've got no chance, they've got your money and now dont care , not a thought about repeat custom - "live for the now , <deleted> tomorrow" . i went to a resteraunt recently and ordered " pat kapow goong", ... the prawns were 'off ' / rancid' so i informed the waitress who was also the owner , within 10 mins i was served another which was not 'off' but had only half as many prawns .........when given the final bill it included 2 pat kapow goong !!........not a word of appoligy, and they could have put me in hospital or worse , but i still payed for it !!.......... WHERE ARE THEIR MORALS ?? = corrupted beyond repair im afraid !.....their sense of fairness ?, they live, eat , dream and breath only money ,............ this is why its so easy for corruption the breed so rapidly and to be seen as " the norm". take a look at the state of the roads and pavements, not fit for soi dogs to walk on, the schools and health, law and order could all be improved if the money went into the "system instead of greedy pockets ................. mai pen rai !

Four things.

1 Am I only happy because this is the only way I have ever lived. Are you sure of that? Be kind disappointing to find out I am not rally happy.

2 I would like to congratulate you on being able to live here under these horrific conditions.

3 Why don't you seek out more satisfying conditions?

4 Where can I go where every thing is up to your high standards?

[hellodolly]

The next time someone compares corruption in Thailand vs other countries, ask them if the teachers must pay a fee for their promotion (pay increase) to go thru?

How many competitor prices are the same for the same product in other countries vs Thailand? Plus how many competitors do you have for the same product?

The Thai public are exposed to corruption/tea money payments from the time they start preschool and it continues thru some allotted time after death. How do you convince them it is wrong, when virtually every aspect of getting what you need/want depends on it? To compare to the majority of the countries of the world, that we TV members come from or have lived, does not make sense, in my opinion.

You hit the nail right on the head.

invariably people who criticize are comparing it to the Christan Western world. They for the most part know nothing about the life of the average Thai. They can not see beyond there self righteous nose.

I often wonder how many of these people interact socially with Thai's for social reasons not business or touristy reasons. Just every day living.

[hellodolly]

There was an identical poll taken by an academic some 20 years ago that generated the exact same results. That being said, I see only a difference in quality of corruption, and not in quantity of corruption, between Thailand and my home country the US, where corporations are given, under a very dubious legal reasoning, the same legal status as individuals. In the US the quality of corruption is much higher as the corruption is hidden under the smoke and mirrors of lawyers, accountants, and politicians. Ordinary people are not allowed to participate in the game. I will take the Thai mode of corruption over the US mode any day, and that is one reason why I look forward to retirement in Thailand and not in the rapidly declining USA.

Very interesting.

Not exactly a fact that people like to look to.

Just think of the increased number of lawyers Thailand would have to have if they decided to take corruption up to the level of the west.

[hellodolly]

Even if Thais could fathom the specific ways in which corruption is bad, they would still tolerate it - if it benefited them personally, or their family/friends/ or super rich politician who continually promises riches for them.

And of course, Farangs are different.

Can you imagine what the legal system in the States would be like if they did not have all those well funded lobbyist groups hanging around the Senate and House of Representatives.

[ginjag]

Just why are you here then osiboy if you have such contempt for Thailand and Thais?

I would think he is here for the same reasons as you and me, but why do you shy away from the truth?? or are you another one like so many defenders of this land refusing to speak out. By doing so can only eventually bring about a change. I love it here, (posters would doubt that by some of my posts) but being honest always brings out the do gooders.

why are you here why don't you go home,are the normal cries, and I always laugh when someone posts and says they find all are wonderful and they personally have NEVER had a problem==They don't live in the real Thailand, mostly they are from cities OR from rural villages and like the new government pay for friends. over and out==this will bring out the termites to defend again.

Edited July 23, 2011 by ginjag

[mjnaus]

It's kind off funny to see that the only people complaining about Thai corruption are the foreign guests in this country

[Awohalitsiktoli]

It's kind off funny to see that the only people complaining about Thai corruption are the foreign guests in this country

That is not entirely true. With all due respect, please note that corruption was "the hot topic" is the past election. All of the posters with animals were a protest against corruption (at least that was my interpretation). And Chuvalit's campaign was and continues to be all about corruption. One more thing: most of the posters on ThaiVisa are expats so it makes sense that most of the posters here complaining about corruption are indeed foreigners. The problem seems to be a lot of talk about corruption and no action to put an end to it. Corruption has become the way to a "good life" in Thailand.....sick but true.

[dhrobertson]

Not so long ago, I quizzed a newly qualified Thai lady barrister, married to a friend of mine, if she would ever consider taking a bribe.

Without hesitation, she replied "yes, if I thought it would help my family".

This really depressed me. If the younger generation of "well educated" Thais are just as corrupt as their elders there is no hope....

"Without hesitation..." Wow. Her answer might as well have been, "of course!" Followed by loud cackling.

Sorry, I don't understand your point. Please explain.

My point, as you clearly don't get it is thyat even the young well educated Thais have no instant sense of right and wrong this is rather sad. Don't you agree?

Edited July 23, 2011 by dhrobertson

[dhrobertson]

Just why are you here then osiboy if you have such contempt for Thailand and Thais?

well, i can see why you think i have contempt for thais , but its not contempt, i actually love the place and because my wife, son and business are here , and if a customer is unhappy with a service they will get their money back,... even if i have already been robbed by a thai partener in the past, as have thousands of other investers in this corruption infested place and had no recourse simply becouse im a farang ,.... im an honest guy , and believe it or not love to help people ,.....is there something in my post you dissagree with ?? and why are you here ?? you have kids here ? want a better future for them ?..............be constructive dont just critisise ,... we can all do that !

Osiboy, I share some of your sentiments.

I came here in the haydays of the late 90s. Business booming, expense accounts overflowing and ladies sending loads-a-money home.

I thought this was the promised land. Settled down, started a business, got married built houses, expanded, invested in rubber. Holidays in Europe every year. Not a bad life.

BUT

Sometimes the bad seems to outweigh the good.

I'm tired of the daily corruption in all walks of life

I'm tired of the sharkish lawless Thais in Phuket

I'm tired of the lack of a police force

I'm tired of the crap education

and so on.

So, as I have said, life's a balance and right now it's tilting away from Thailand which is a real disappointment.

I would not consider going back to the UK (a mess since Thatcher destroyed society)

Maybe I'll have a shot at Singapore......

[dhrobertson]

here we go again with the thais on the site trying to defend what is obviously disgusting behaviour replying with " look at your country", and "thais are happy with things as they are ",.......... PATHETIC !!, they only THINK they are happy with the way things are here becouse they have never known it any other way , as one commentor stated "its in the thais DNA", ....again its all down to education, how easy are thais to believe what they see on tv ??? ,...... the easiest way to make a million $ in thailand must be to put an advert on TV stating your ' wonder cream' is the fasted and the 'best ever' at making your skin white.........., and when it evidently fails to work , what recourse do thais have ???,..........mmmmm , so gullible its amazing,....ever tried to get your money back from a shop in thailand ??, unless its from an american or european chain you've got no chance, they've got your money and now dont care , not a thought about repeat custom - "live for the now , <deleted> tomorrow" . i went to a resteraunt recently and ordered " pat kapow goong", ... the prawns were 'off ' / rancid' so i informed the waitress who was also the owner , within 10 mins i was served another which was not 'off' but had only half as many prawns .........when given the final bill it included 2 pat kapow goong !!........not a word of appoligy, and they could have put me in hospital or worse , but i still payed for it !!.......... WHERE ARE THEIR MORALS ?? = corrupted beyond repair im afraid !.....their sense of fairness ?, they live, eat , dream and breath only money ,............ this is why its so easy for corruption the breed so rapidly and to be seen as " the norm". take a look at the state of the roads and pavements, not fit for soi dogs to walk on, the schools and health, law and order could all be improved if the money went into the "system instead of greedy pockets ................. mai pen rai !

Four things.

1 Am I only happy because this is the only way I have ever lived. Are you sure of that? Be kind disappointing to find out I am not rally happy.

2 I would like to congratulate you on being able to live here under these horrific conditions.

3 Why don't you seek out more satisfying conditions?

4 Where can I go where every thing is up to your high standards?

Denmark, Finland, Germany, Switzerland shall I continue?

[DumFarang]

Not so long ago, I quizzed a newly qualified Thai lady barrister, married to a friend of mine, if she would ever consider taking a bribe.

Without hesitation, she replied "yes, if I thought it would help my family".

This really depressed me. If the younger generation of "well educated" Thais are just as corrupt as their elders there is no hope....

"Without hesitation..." Wow. Her answer might as well have been, "of course!" Followed by loud cackling.

Sorry, I don't understand your point. Please explain.

My point, as you clearly don't get it is thyat even the young well educated Thais have an instant sense of right and wrong this is rather sad. Don't you agree?

I don't understand what you don't understand. My post echos your dismay. The corruption is a shameful thing indeed.

[dhrobertson]

It's kind off funny to see that the only people complaining about Thai corruption are the foreign guests in this country

Are you surprised?

All Thais are corrupt, from the monks in business class down to the children.

Sorry if that is offensive but that's what I believe (including my own wife and family).

Thai society has achieved this and it needs to change

BTW, whats this guest business? I bet I pay more tax than you do......

Edited July 23, 2011 by dhrobertson

[Crushdepth]

Not so long ago, I quizzed a newly qualified Thai lady barrister, married to a friend of mine, if she would ever consider taking a bribe.

Without hesitation, she replied "yes, if I thought it would help my family".

This really depressed me. If the younger generation of "well educated" Thais are just as corrupt as their elders there is no hope....

"Without hesitation..." Wow. Her answer might as well have been, "of course!" Followed by loud cackling.

Sorry, I don't understand your point. Please explain.

My point, as you clearly don't get it is thyat even the young well educated Thais have no instant sense of right and wrong this is rather sad. Don't you agree?

Everyone knows what's right and wrong. Education has nothing to do with the level of corruption, it's more of a cultural and (to a lesser extent) economic issue. I deal with large numbers of scientists and on the whole their (dis)honesty level is pretty much the same as the general population. There's no shortage of educated crooks in this world.

[lannarebirth]

Haven't read any of the posts and don't plan to. Just wanted to say that's an oxymoronic thread title.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post directed at other members as well as being an invitation to a flame fest has been removed as well as a reply to it.

[hellodolly]

An inflammatory post directed at other members as well as being an invitation to a flame fest has been removed as well as a reply to it.

That would have been my post

Sorry about that

Basically all I did was ask people to remember that they have chosen to make Thailand their home. There is how ever some who work for international companies and were not really given a choice. For most of us it our choice. Many chose to start a business here Many chose to start a family here. Most of us are free in what we choose to do.

Maybe I am saying respect our decisions.

I was asking people to forget every thing they had learned in a Western culture that is basically Christian in nature.

Try to imagine growing up in Thailand being given only the knowledge of a Buddhist Eastern culture.

You might possibly see that it may be wrong but not as bad as some would have us believe.

I also pointed out that if it was that bad for them they need not go back to where they come from. There is lots of countries where their money will go further than in their home land.

Let us remember we are guests and if it is unacceptable we can leave and go to another countrie.

Once again sorry about the previous post.

[dhrobertson]

Not so long ago, I quizzed a newly qualified Thai lady barrister, married to a friend of mine, if she would ever consider taking a bribe.

Without hesitation, she replied "yes, if I thought it would help my family".

This really depressed me. If the younger generation of "well educated" Thais are just as corrupt as their elders there is no hope....

"Without hesitation..." Wow. Her answer might as well have been, "of course!" Followed by loud cackling.

Sorry, I don't understand your point. Please explain.

My point, as you clearly don't get it is thyat even the young well educated Thais have no instant sense of right and wrong this is rather sad. Don't you agree?

Everyone knows what's right and wrong. Education has nothing to do with the level of corruption, it's more of a cultural and (to a lesser extent) economic issue. I deal with large numbers of scientists and on the whole their (dis)honesty level is pretty much the same as the general population. There's no shortage of educated crooks in this world.

I beg to disagree

Basic concepts of right and wrong are inculcated at a very early age through good parenting

It seems that many have not absorbed this, including, IMHO most Thais

You see, I believe the obiquitous occurency of corruption in Thailand is a direct result of the failure of the young to understand the basic concept of right and wrong

Educated crooks are a different issue

[looping]

So, only 64.5% of Thais don't understand the concept of corruption and how it affects a country's ability to prosper? Surprised. Maybe just preparing themselves for the road ahead.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

I beg to disagree

Basic concepts of right and wrong are inculcated at a very early age through good parenting

It seems that many have not absorbed this, including, IMHO most Thais

You see, I believe the obiquitous occurency of corruption in Thailand is a direct result of the failure of the young to understand the basic concept of right and wrong

Educated crooks are a different issue

It really does start there. One example: I just watched the "Making of the Suicide Bomber" by a former CIA case officer. It was very interesting stuff. But what I found most interesting was the indoctrination of very small kids to support a radical religious philosophy that brainwashes them to engage in suicide bombing. Basically, you can teach kids anything. The role models in Thailand are teaching directly or indirectly that corruption is good. Of course, that is a recipe for cultural disaster, and we are seeing the tip of the iceberg melting right in front of our eyes right now.

[tonbridgebrit]

All this self-righteousness that we see from the posts is a bit silly isn't it ? So we love to criticise the Thais for being corrupt, morally bankrupt, they don't know the difference between right and wrong, their religion is not as good as ours, etc.

Okay, let's look at our own society, and what do we see ? I prefer to look at the failings of my own people rather than mock and ridicule other people ! We all know in Britain, the media (and it's not just the Sun newspaper and News of the World newspaper) seems to constantly go on about the private sex lives of the rich and famous. There also seems to be this bizzare fascination about 'celebrities' like Cheryl Cole. We must remember that nobody forces people to buy such silly newspapers, people buy the stuff because they like it, and the media in Britain and the USA is a reflection of the society as a whole. What I'm trying to say, is, is that people want to go on about how 'morally bankrupt' Thai society is, well, I'd like to ask if our own societies are that much better ? Remember, the News of the World newspaper closing down is still only part of the problem. Some of the guys involved in that newspaper were linked to senior members of the present government in Britain. I think we are only seeing the beginning of the revelations, and time will reveal the scale of the hacking, and other problems too (yes, British police officers took bribes and gave information to journalists).

I can go on all day about how some youngsters growing up in Britain show almost zero respect for the society they live in, how they hang around in groups and mock and ridicuke old people, how they are a general nuisance (more serious than being a general nuisance) in the housing estates they live in. Things like cars being stolen by youngsters (because they think it's funny) and vandalising British Telecom public phone boxes are just two of many of the problems youngsters do.

What I'm trying to say, is, what does it say about our own society, when our own countries produce such youngsters ? And we want to criticise Thailand for being 'morally bankrupt' !! Does Thailand produce vast numbers of youngsters (yobs) who hang around in groups, causing all kinds of problems to society ? I must admit, I feel safer walking around at night (or day !) here in Thailand than I do when back home in England !

And this talk about our religion being different and better than theirs. How many of us are actually Christian people ? Most people back home ridicule the Bible, we do actually live in a 'secular' society in Britain, it's a society that mainly no longer has a religion !! If we are to teach Christianity (or Christian values) to the Thais, well, surely, we have to believe in the faith ourselves ??!!

[TAWP]

In my years in Thailand I have never engaged in any crimes against anyone nor have I ever bribed any officials -- and I have a dream that others would see this as the norm.

If you don't, don't expect me to have any respect for your view or wish of how the nation should be administrated.

[ginjag]

In my years in Thailand I have never engaged in any crimes against anyone nor have I ever bribed any officials -- and I have a dream that others would see this as the norm.

If you don't, don't expect me to have any respect for your view or wish of how the nation should be administrated.

With you on this one, so you were brought up firmly with love, and taught to respect. In my young days it was the NORM to be taught -right and wrong by all-parents-G parents- schools-the country-other elders-police-courts,etc.

I see 1 poster defending the Thai ways, and picks on western examples-typical- there are younger element in Europe that do not respect and tend to be more lax when bringing up kids. BUT the % is much less than here. where kids run around free style and parents are to lazy to teach OR they do not know how to bring up children, Better the parents get guidance ???

[udonguy]

sad day when so many feel corruption is ok - a young country let's face it that doesn't have 'grown up' ideals

[tonbridgebrit]

Moral bankruptcy is wrong, moral bankruptcy is bad, moral bankruptcy is almost every where. We must regain our own high moral values, and then, we can give our high moral values to foreigners. Trying to clean our neighbours house when our own house is almost as dirty might be a bit silly.

The sacking of a senior member of FIFA (the governing body who run the football World Cup) for corruption shows us that corruption is everywhere. And the sacked person is now lifting the lid on all the corruption that has taken place in FIFA during the last few years. Nobody is surprised by the way, that's because most of us knew that this was going on. The latest news about the death of a famous singer back home is another tragic reminder of how much we need to get our own house in order.

I know my neighbour watches 'adult films/movies' on the adult channel, on his satellite dish. I'm not going round to his house to lecture/mock/ridicule him ! That's because I've got a few magazines under my bed that I bought from the top-shelf at the local newsagent. As for the copy of the News of the World that I've hidden in my garage, well, don't go down that road, I deny it's mine. Some bloke I know at work put it there.

(most of the above writing is supposed to be read in a light-hearted way, but I take it anybody reading it knows the point I'm trying to make)

[hyperdimension]

I've just come across this report that was published earlier this year: ASIAN INTELLIGENCE No. 823 Asian corruption update 2011-03-23

Here's an extract:

Comments

Endemic corruption probably ruled out a nuclear power industry for Thailand long before the present disaster in Japan. Even Thais who favor nuclear energy have argued that its establishment in their country would be too perilous because, they say, every major infrastructure project over the years has been impaired by corrupt practices that led to design flaws, shoddy construction and the use of degraded materials.

Edited August 12, 2011 by metisdead
Edited due to non compliance of fair use.

[bf2002]

I find it amusing all the morally superior replies by farangs on here.

Why are YOU here?

Sex, whores, come on....you exist here because the place is corrupt....if you want to really solve the corruption, get on a plane and fly out of here forever.

You, I, we are here for the very reason the Thais are ok with corruption....

[PingManDan]

Yes many Thai agree corruption is ok, if they are on the money taking side of the table, but if they weren't making money then their thoughts would be the opposite for sure

Corruption in any form is totally unacceptable, but here I guess thats why they call it "Amazing Thailand"

Edited August 12, 2011 by metisdead

[dhrobertson]

I find it amusing all the morally superior replies by farangs on here.

Why are YOU here?

Sex, whores, come on....you exist here because the place is corrupt....if you want to really solve the corruption, get on a plane and fly out of here forever.

You, I, we are here for the very reason the Thais are ok with corruption....

We are here because:-

1) We are more intelligent than you are

2) Without us you economy is dead

3) your women folk find us more attractive

Why don't you fly out on one of your piss poor airlines? What? No money? Get a hair cut and get a job!

[tonbridgebrit]

I find it amusing all the morally superior replies by farangs on here.

Why are YOU here?

Sex, whores, come on....you exist here because the place is corrupt....if you want to really solve the corruption, get on a plane and fly out of here forever.

You, I, we are here for the very reason the Thais are ok with corruption....

Mate, I don't criticise my fellow countrymen for coming to Thailand for mainly sexual reasons. I do realise, that you weren't actually criticising them too !!

However, I do fully accept, off-course, that the bulk of us foreigners in Thailand are here as sex tourists or long-term sex tourists. If not, well, it's usually about having a far greater choice of girlfriend/wife when compared to back home. As in, if a bloke is 55 years old, well, what are his chances of getting a girlfriend who is 27, back home in England ?

Anyway, my point is, is that it looks a bit silly when, when a community of people who are made up mainly of sex tourists (and other travellers for sexual purposes) go on and on about the Thais being 'morally bankrupt, have low moral values, etc'. Do we as people realise, that back home in Britain, well, most people back home have a poor opinion of us blokes out here ? People back home in Britain say things like 'What does it say about a bloke who has travelled abroad, who is now staying permanently abroad, because it's far easier for him to have sex over there than back home'. And if people back home knew that we (as in the foreigners in Thailand) are mocking/ridiculing/commenting on the Thais on their moral bankruptcy, well, how silly would we look ?

I'm not going round to my neighbours house to criticise him for having a porno video tape under his bed. That's because I've got a sex magazine under my own bed. I don't blast him, the fact that I don't blast him doesn't mean to say though that I reckon him having that video tape is a good thing.