Buying Property - Protection For Foreigner

[Kammi]

Hi!

First i want to apologize, i am not a native english speaker and i am not thai.

I want to buy a townhouse in Bangkok subarea, which is about 3 years old. Unfortunately foreigners are not allowed to buy land, but is there a legal way to buy just the house which is already built on the land?

I have a thai girlfriend, i trust her. We do not want to register our marriage. We just want do a wedding ceremony. My girlfriend has a nice income, but have to pay back a loan. So she can not contribute on buying property.

Are there any disadvantages when i am not married to my thai girlfriend in future regarding time of residence?

Case 1:

I will give the money for buying the land to my girlfriend as a gift and lease the land from her. It is then possible to be owner of the house?

Case 2:

I trust my girlfriend. I will give her the amount of money to buy land and the house, as a gift. She will buy the land and house on her name. In this case, i want as much protection as possible to secure "my invesment". I read about "right of habitation" and "usufruct".

It is better to implement both of this rights? Can i implement the right of habitation for my Mum and Dad? Do i require a lawyer for this paperwork? Or do i just have to go with my girlfirend to the Land office and register this rights?

Are there are any other rights, so that my girlfriend can not sell the house or land without my permission?

I know that are quite a lot of questions, but i do not want to do any mistake.

So waiting for some great replies, thanks a lot ))

[trogers]

Can a single unit of town house be built on a vacant piece of land? Or can you only build a single house?

[InterestedObserver]

After your girlfriend buys the property have her give you a renewable 30-year lease (30+30 years) on the land and sell you the townhouse and/or a right of superficies which is then registered on the Chanote. Have a real estate lawyer draw up the documents, they can get complicated to cover all contingencies.

Edited August 3, 2011 by InterestedObserver

[happyfish88]

After your girlfriend buys the property have her give you a renewable 30-year lease (30+30 years) on the land and sell you the townhouse and/or a right of superficies which is then registered on the Chanote. Have a real estate lawyer draw up the documents, they can get complicated to cover all contingencies.

Hi InterestedObserver, same scenario as above but with a non thai spouse can we buy townhouse legally?

[InterestedObserver]

After your girlfriend buys the property have her give you a renewable 30-year lease (30+30 years) on the land and sell you the townhouse and/or a right of superficies which is then registered on the Chanote. Have a real estate lawyer draw up the documents, they can get complicated to cover all contingencies.

Hi InterestedObserver, same scenario as above but with a non thai spouse can we buy townhouse legally?

Foreigners can legally own a house (townhouse) separate from the land. The key would be to obtaining long-term land rights such as 30 year lease from the Thai landowner.

[cattyman]

do you want to buy house in phuket ( single house is good house in patong in phuket ) If you want to see pic can you tell me your email to my email email removed please PM

ole

Edited December 2, 2011 by Crossy
email removed per forum rules

[udonguy]

I have an Usufruct for my LIFETIME not 30 years + 30 years and I have a pre-signed PoA (not dated) should I wish to sell

[Langsuan Man]

After your girlfriend buys the property have her give you a renewable 30-year lease (30+30 years) on the land and sell you the townhouse and/or a right of superficies which is then registered on the Chanote. Have a real estate lawyer draw up the documents, they can get complicated to cover all contingencies.

Thai Law only accepts a 30 year lease, nothing longer and an unsigned lease not listed on the Chanote is not worth the paper it is printed on

Hi InterestedObserver, same scenario as above but with a non thai spouse can we buy townhouse legally?

Foreigners can legally own a house (townhouse) separate from the land. The key would be to obtaining long-term land rights such as 30 year lease from the Thai landowner.

You don't legally own anything, you have a 30 year lease, which is a far cry from ownership

The most famous last words in Thaiand:

I trust my girlfriend

[stgrhe]

After your girlfriend buys the property have her give you a renewable 30-year lease (30+30 years) on the land and sell you the townhouse and/or a right of superficies which is then registered on the Chanote. Have a real estate lawyer draw up the documents, they can get complicated to cover all contingencies.

Thai Law only accepts a 30 year lease, nothing longer and an unsigned lease not listed on the Chanote is not worth the paper it is printed on

Hi InterestedObserver, same scenario as above but with a non thai spouse can we buy townhouse legally?

Foreigners can legally own a house (townhouse) separate from the land. The key would be to obtaining long-term land rights such as 30 year lease from the Thai landowner.

You don't legally own anything, you have a 30 year lease, which is a far cry from ownership

That is incorrect as a foreigner can legally own dwellings on land owned by someone else. The ownership of the dwelling does not come automatically as the house must be duly registered at the land office and fees paid after completion of the construction.

[taninthai]

So what happens when 30 year lease runs out and land owner refuses to give new lease therefor blocking any access to the property you supposedly own.

I was under the impression no one knows what happens in this situation as none off these 30 year leases have run out yet.

[binjalin]

1322967524[/url]' post='4889516']

So what happens when 30 year lease runs out and land owner refuses to give new lease therefor blocking any access to the property you supposedly own.

I was under the impression no one knows what happens in this situation as none off these 30 year leases have run out yet.

Well dont get a 30 year lease??? I have a 'lifetime' lease and what my Thai friend does after that is irrelevant to me - i also have a signed and undated PoA to sell

[taninthai]

As I understand life time lease is called a usufruct and completely different from 30 year lease .maximum lease recognized and enforceable by thai law is 30 years and we are talking about these and what happens when they expire

[binjalin]

1322971020[/url]' post='4889644']

As I understand life time lease is called a usufruct and completely different from 30 year lease .maximum lease recognized and enforceable by thai law is 30 years and we are talking about these and what happens when they expire

I think there is a mis- understanding? Many people call usufructs 'leases' when they are not - an usufruct CAN be 30 years or 30 + 30 and are commonly called 'leases' anyway why have a lease when you can have an usufruct for your lifetime? AND get a PoA signed and undated?

Edit: the topic was not about leases but about usufructs?

Edited December 4, 2011 by binjalin

[Langsuan Man]

1322971020[/url]' post='4889644']

As I understand life time lease is called a usufruct and completely different from 30 year lease .maximum lease recognized and enforceable by thai law is 30 years and we are talking about these and what happens when they expire

I think there is a mis- understanding? Many people call usufructs 'leases' when they are not - an usufruct CAN be 30 years or 30 + 30 and are commonly called 'leases' anyway why have a lease when you can have an usufruct for your lifetime? AND get a PoA signed and undated?

Edit: the topic was not about leases but about usufructs?

There is only misunderstanding in your mind

A lease is a lease and can only be for a maximum of 30 years and any attempt to extend that through PoA is not enforceable

A usufruct is only good for your lifetime and cannot be transferred to anyone else and only gives you USE of the property, not ownership, so when you die the property reverts back to the owner

And the title of this thread is Buying Property - Protection For Foreigner so the protection that leases afford you is very much on topic

[TigerWan]

Case 1:

I will give the money for buying the land to my girlfriend as a gift and lease the land from her. It is then possible to be owner of the house?

This is illegal. If audited she would have to show where the monies came from and if from you, it may well void her ownership.

Yes, a foreigner can own the house outright, just get the 30 year lease ( and 30 years only ) on the land in your name. Get a certified and independent translation of the contracts, you'll need one for th ehome and one for th eland lease and do not use your partner's lawyer , either.

A 30 year lease has to be registered at the Land Dept, which also means paying taxes on it or else 3 years is max on residential lease.

Be aware, 30 years is the limit, no extensions are legally binding- so really, IMO you lose most of your money as soon as you sign. It seems to me no one will buy a house that sits on a lease when the lease will expire before 30 years. I sure wouldn't.

The forums are full of men lamenting the decision to put property in a Thai partner's name. Don't do it ! Just rent and rent cheap is my motto .

The "usufructs" sound to me like more realtor brand of BS a la "30 year plus 30 year renewals.." once were before word got out about that deception perpetrated mostly by foreigner working illegally as realtors.

The law is clear; foreigners cannot own land , yes the law has been circumvented through many methods, usually using companies with nominee Thai share holders. This may well come back to bite them though many have gotten away with it for a long time, but... TiT

Good luck

After your girlfriend buys the property have her give you a renewable 30-year lease (30+30 years) on the land and sell you the townhouse and/or a right of superficies which is then registered on the Chanote. Have a real estate lawyer draw up the documents, they can get complicated to cover all contingencies.

Thai Law only accepts a 30 year lease, nothing longer and an unsigned lease not listed on the Chanote is not worth the paper it is printed on

Hi InterestedObserver, same scenario as above but with a non thai spouse can we buy townhouse legally?

Foreigners can legally own a house (townhouse) separate from the land. The key would be to obtaining long-term land rights such as 30 year lease from the Thai landowner.

You don't legally own anything, you have a 30 year lease, which is a far cry from ownership

The most famous last words in Thaiand:

I trust my girlfriend

Edited December 4, 2011 by TigerWan

[TigerWan]

Good question and those leases should start running out in the coming decade which means the Thai land owner will be in an excellent position to put the squeeze on the house owner.

I find it remarkable that a 30 year lease costs the same as outright ownership and even more remarkable so many foreigners have bought into the 30 year plus 30 year scam. Of course when the Thai President of Realtors in Phuket is touting 30 plus 30 renewals , easy to see how folks were duped.

Either Thailand will have to change the foreigner ownership laws.. or, well ...nothing. With Chinese and Indians posed to become the next, er....sucker influx, I predict a time when few westerners are involved in Thailand property anymore. Plan accordingly

So what happens when 30 year lease runs out and land owner refuses to give new lease therefor blocking any access to the property you supposedly own.

I was under the impression no one knows what happens in this situation as none off these 30 year leases have run out yet.

Edited December 4, 2011 by TigerWan

[taninthai]

1322971020[/url]' post='4889644']

As I understand life time lease is called a usufruct and completely different from 30 year lease .maximum lease recognized and enforceable by thai law is 30 years and we are talking about these and what happens when they expire

I think there is a mis- understanding? Many people call usufructs 'leases' when they are not - an usufruct CAN be 30 years or 30 + 30 and are commonly called 'leases' anyway why have a lease when you can have an usufruct for your lifetime? AND get a PoA signed and undated?

Edit: the topic was not about leases but about usufructs?

There is only misunderstanding in your mind

A lease is a lease and can only be for a maximum of 30 years and any attempt to extend that through PoA is not enforceable

A usufruct is only good for your lifetime and cannot be transferred to anyone else and only gives you USE of the property, not ownership, so when you die the property reverts back to the owner

And the title of this thread is Buying Property - Protection For Foreigner so the protection that leases afford you is very much on topic

Thank you that is exactly how I thought it to be obviously people who have bought into this 30 year + 30 year lease seem reluctant to believe 30 years is max and you have a good chance of losing the lot when the first and only legal lease expires,as for myself I only buy things that I can own 100% and can sell on easily when and if needed so it's rentals for me all the way unless the misses wants to buy land with her own money I will always rent

[thaiwanderer]

Some confusion here, renewals are 'legal' its the enforceability that's the problem.

[binjalin]

1322980497[/url]' post='4889943']

1322972972[/url]' post='4889724']

1322971020[/url]' post='4889644']

As I understand life time lease is called a usufruct and completely different from 30 year lease .maximum lease recognized and enforceable by thai law is 30 years and we are talking about these and what happens when they expire

I think there is a mis- understanding? Many people call usufructs 'leases' when they are not - an usufruct CAN be 30 years or 30 + 30 and are commonly called 'leases' anyway why have a lease when you can have an usufruct for your lifetime? AND get a PoA signed and undated?

Edit: the topic was not about leases but about usufructs?

There is only misunderstanding in your mind

A lease is a lease and can only be for a maximum of 30 years and any attempt to extend that through PoA is not enforceable

A usufruct is only good for your lifetime and cannot be transferred to anyone else and only gives you USE of the property, not ownership, so when you die the property reverts back to the owner

And the title of this thread is Buying Property - Protection For Foreigner so the protection that leases afford you is very much on topic

You have missed the point oh wise one - the PoA is for if I want to sell it I dont need to renew because it's for my lifetime!

[Khun Jean]

My goodness opinions and wrong interpretations everywhere with nuggets of truth. But which parts are true?

To the OP. If you want to know what to do give me a PM.

Not being married is a good thing!

[travelmann]

My goodness opinions and wrong interpretations everywhere with nuggets of truth. But which parts are true?

To the OP. If you want to know what to do give me a PM.

Not being married is a good thing!

Not being married get usufruct then add a third party not related to your girlfriend cost almost zero to do generally 100-200 baht you have the right to use the land and house until you die you can even give out a lease to someome else for 30 years i believe, DONT get married officially it can be nullified by wife.

[Khun Jean]

My goodness opinions and wrong interpretations everywhere with nuggets of truth. But which parts are true?

To the OP. If you want to know what to do give me a PM.

Not being married is a good thing!

Not being married get usufruct then add a third party not related to your girlfriend cost almost zero to do generally 100-200 baht you have the right to use the land and house until you die you can even give out a lease to someome else for 30 years i believe, DONT get married officially it can be nullified by wife.

The third party is crucial if you are married, when not then it is just a layer of extra security. I would look for a thrid party in your own family, like a younger brother/sister/son/daughter.....

Leasing it to someone else requires a registration when longer than 30 years and that is most of the time not accepted unfortunately. One thing to realize is that once bought and given away it is not yours to sell anymore.

You can get compensation to agree with removing the usufruct (Selling with a usufruct is as good as impossible). But that will most certainly not be the full amount you spend.

[thaiwanderer]

Leasing it to someone else requires a registration when longer than 30 years and that is most of the time not accepted unfortunately.

Maybe Sunbelt or Isaanlawyers could chime in on this point. Ohh wait.....

[binjalin]

1323172639[/url]' post='4894710']

1323168739[/url]' post='4894585']

My goodness opinions and wrong interpretations everywhere with nuggets of truth. But which parts are true?

To the OP. If you want to know what to do give me a PM.

Not being married is a good thing!

Not being married get usufruct then add a third party not related to your girlfriend cost almost zero to do generally 100-200 baht you have the right to use the land and house until you die you can even give out a lease to someome else for 30 years i believe, DONT get married officially it can be nullified by wife.

Yup - get a lifetime Usufruct and get a PoA with signed ID etc. in case you want to sell (to another Thai of course) AND get the Usufructer to have a Will made to YOUR benefit

[Khun Jean]

1323172639[/url]' post='4894710']

1323168739[/url]' post='4894585']

My goodness opinions and wrong interpretations everywhere with nuggets of truth. But which parts are true?

To the OP. If you want to know what to do give me a PM.

Not being married is a good thing!

Not being married get usufruct then add a third party not related to your girlfriend cost almost zero to do generally 100-200 baht you have the right to use the land and house until you die you can even give out a lease to someome else for 30 years i believe, DONT get married officially it can be nullified by wife.

Yup - get a lifetime Usufruct and get a PoA with signed ID etc. in case you want to sell (to another Thai of course) AND get the Usufructer to have a Will made to YOUR benefit

A PoA works as long as the relationship is good and intentions are the same. Otherwise you can forget about using your PoA because it can and will be revoked and a will, well lets just says, things can change.

[binjalin]

1323329988[/url]' post='4898639']

1323314002[/url]' post='4898136']

1323172639[/url]' post='4894710']

1323168739[/url]' post='4894585']

My goodness opinions and wrong interpretations everywhere with nuggets of truth. But which parts are true?

To the OP. If you want to know what to do give me a PM.

Not being married is a good thing!

Not being married get usufruct then add a third party not related to your girlfriend cost almost zero to do generally 100-200 baht you have the right to use the land and house until you die you can even give out a lease to someome else for 30 years i believe, DONT get married officially it can be nullified by wife.

Yup - get a lifetime Usufruct and get a PoA with signed ID etc. in case you want to sell (to another Thai of course) AND get the Usufructer to have a Will made to YOUR benefit

A PoA works as long as the relationship is good and intentions are the same. Otherwise you can forget about using your PoA because it can and will be revoked and a will, well lets just says, things can change.

Not in my case it's undated and signed - if you are referring to a relationship as in wife or gf/bf then yes

[Khun Jean]

Not in my case it's undated and signed - if you are referring to a relationship as in wife or gf/bf then yes

A relationship is also with the one who gave you the PoA. Does not have to be your wife or girlfriend. At least with a girlfriend or wife you know when things are going worse. With a stranger you don't, it can happen when least expected.

The way it can be done is a simple visit to the landoffice asking to revoke your PoA. And because an undated, signed PoA is not valid it is just a simple procedure.

Actually when you show up with your PoA, they will just laugh at the sillyness of it.

On the front you have a line

.....to have authority to carry out the actions on my behalf until they are terminated.

This is on the backside of a PoA from the landoffice.

Point 5 is the crucial one.

Instructions

For the land owner & the interested person protections

1) A power of attorney done outside Thailand must be certified by an embassy or a consulate or a notary public.

2) Clearly specify subject and arrangement to delegate one's authority such as sell, buy, mortgage, etc. If there are any special conditions please explain.

3) Do not use different writing and different color ink in this form also have to be a same type writer.

4) If there any erased marks, retouched marks, corrected marks, or cross-out mark, specify how many and the appointer has to sign next to every mark.

5) An appointer shall not sign his/her name before the form is completely filled and correct

6) There must be at least one witness. If an appointer uses thumbprint, there must be at least 2 witnesses. Witnesses must sign, not thumbprint.

7) A power of attorney done outside Thailand must be certified by an embassy or a consulate or a notary public.

Edited December 8, 2011 by Khun Jean

[thaiwanderer]

Yup - get a lifetime Usufruct and get a PoA with signed ID etc. in case you want to sell (to another Thai of course) AND get the Usufructer to have a Will made to YOUR benefit

A PoA works as long as the relationship is good and intentions are the same. Otherwise you can forget about using your PoA because it can and will be revoked and a will, well lets just says, things can change.

Not in my case it's undated and signed - if you are referring to a relationship as in wife or gf/bf then yes

You honestly believe that makes a difference? Oh dear.

[Khun Jean]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNQRfBAzSzo

[binjalin]

1323337945[/url]' post='4898937']

1323333526[/url]' post='4898800']

Not in my case it's undated and signed - if you are referring to a relationship as in wife or gf/bf then yes

A relationship is also with the one who gave you the PoA. Does not have to be your wife or girlfriend. At least with a girlfriend or wife you know when things are going worse. With a stranger you don't, it can happen when least expected.

The way it can be done is a simple visit to the landoffice asking to revoke your PoA. And because an undated, signed PoA is not valid it is just a simple procedure.

Actually when you show up with your PoA, they will just laugh at the sillyness of it.

On the front you have a line

.....to have authority to carry out the actions on my behalf until they are terminated.

This is on the backside of a PoA from the landoffice.

Point 5 is the crucial one.

Instructions

For the land owner & the interested person protections

1) A power of attorney done outside Thailand must be certified by an embassy or a consulate or a notary public.

2) Clearly specify subject and arrangement to delegate one's authority such as sell, buy, mortgage, etc. If there are any special conditions please explain.

3) Do not use different writing and different color ink in this form also have to be a same type writer.

4) If there any erased marks, retouched marks, corrected marks, or cross-out mark, specify how many and the appointer has to sign next to every mark.

5) An appointer shall not sign his/her name before the form is completely filled and correct

6) There must be at least one witness. If an appointer uses thumbprint, there must be at least 2 witnesses. Witnesses must sign, not thumbprint.

7) A power of attorney done outside Thailand must be certified by an embassy or a consulate or a notary public.

It's fine believe me no matter what point 5 says but thanks for your concern