Losing Face When Negotiating A Price

[shepsel]

I have been looking around to purchase a new car. Naturally, in my culture it is customary to bargain for the best price possible, and going to a few different dealers to get the best price. I understand that that new car dealers don't cut the manufactures suggested retail price, but some of them will negotiate extras as part of the deal. I have been looking at a Mitsubishi Lancer and there has been no negotiation with extras as well--and of course no discounts.

It seems that Thais seem to lose face when negotiating for extras on a big ticket item, and my friend has gotten upset with me for trying to do so. Yet, when they go to a market to buy a shirt or a pair of shoes they always ask the seller to "lot" the price. Why is this not losing face on bargaining for a couple of baht on a small ticket item?

Where is the cut off point for a Thai on when and what to bargain for? And, when does the start to lose face on the bargaining process?

[travelmann]

To be honest I just haggle with them and if they dont play, walk away , there are many other dealers out there.

[Soutpeel]

To be honest I just haggle with them and if they dont play, walk away , there are many other dealers out there.

yeap agreed....think the OP is reading too much into this "face" thing.....its a business deal, they either want to play or they dont...if they dont ....walk away and go a deal with someone who wants to play... first time in nearly 10 years in Thailand have come across this spin on the face thing

[Jawnie]

It seems to me that bargaining in Thailand (Asia) is some what opposite from the US (the West). That is, in the US, one would never bargain for pants, clothes, or groceries at a street market, etc., but it's done all the time here. Bargaining over price in the US is for big-ticket items such as cars, houses, etc., as you know.

First, explain to your Thai friend that it is your culture and practice to negotiate the price of a car and extras with cars. Once he understands, if he does, have your Thai friend explain this to the dealer that it is your culture to bargain for the price of a car - that's it's not disrespect, just your way.....

Don't dismiss the idea that the dealer is pretending to be upset at your attempt to negotiate. Frankly, I'd assume the dealer is using that as a tactic to make you give up on your attempts.

[Kwasaki]

It's not very clear where about you are, ' in my culture you say ' when buying a new car in the west you can shop around I take it, you mean, and your friend I assume is Thai.

Many car dealers in Thailand will try and win you over but it would depend on how far you are prepared to travel around to a number of Mitsubishi dealers for the specific model you want. e.g. better deal in the South than in the North say.

I find that once dealers have presented there purchase price and any extras they want to thrown in that is it, sometimes an ace card played is about insurance.

I suppose you could refer it to like buying gold bars there's no bargaining the price is the price.

Negotiating in a market place is not the same as buying a new car.

I don't think it's really about Thais losing face in bargaining, it's where it is appropriate to do so.

Edited August 8, 2011 by Kwasaki

[Atmos]

my partner has been looking at buying herself a used car - I cringe when she haggles/bargains and is not afraid to politely just walk away; she's the same on any item - even when trading my own triathlon bike for a mountainbike I just stood back and she renegotiated the prices they had mentioned to me when i visited alone.

Though half my 'profit' that day was later 're-invested' in sapphire earrings (hers not mine!)

No such thing as a free lunch.

Edited August 8, 2011 by Atmos

[Raesum]

We bought a VW van not too long ago and I think the dealer was happy to see it go-with the price of petrol etc it would be expensive for a person to run.He didn't give us an actual discount on the selling price but rather gave us a very good trade-in price for the Toyota we were getting rid of.Yes I know-same same but different. As for the van-we had it converted to gas and she's a little bewdy!!!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

It seems that Thais seem to lose face when negotiating for extras on a big ticket item, and my friend has gotten upset with me for trying to do so.

I'd say that is a specific issue with your friend, not a trait of Thais, as you seem to think.

Just about all Thais I know negotiate the hell out of anything, big or small and especially big.

[WarpSpeed]

It seems that Thais seem to lose face when negotiating for extras on a big ticket item, and my friend has gotten upset with me for trying to do so.

I'd say that is a specific issue with your friend, not a trait of Thais, as you seem to think.

Just about all Thais I know negotiate the hell out of anything, big or small and especially big.

That's what I was thinking and really your post is more automotive related so it seems you should search some of the numerous threads in that sub forum to see how many extra's and discounts have been negotiated for in deals without any mention of any dealers losing face while depositing the new owners money in their account..

Edited August 8, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[MAJIC]

IMHO This face thing is a load of nonsense and is often taken to ridiculous lengths,

the reality is its a convenient way to not accept responsibilty for your own actions,and allows the guilty party to shift blame onto someone else.

There has even been cases where a murderer has claimed loss of face as a mitigating murder charge plea.

In this instance it's a device to stop you bargaining for a better deal,as one Poster has already mentioned,

if they dont want to play just walk,there is only a price on"Face" if you allow it to happen.

Bargaining is quite acceptable in Thailand and Asia in general,and is often expected,go for it!

[Mirth]

It seems that Thais seem to lose face when negotiating for extras on a big ticket item, and my friend has gotten upset with me for trying to do so.

It's very possible if your friend is known to the car dealer and he/she sang high praises for you prior to your visit. Secondly, it could be he/she made a deal with the car dealer regarding commission prior to the visit.

[MrsMills]

I have always had extras thrown in with every new car I have had in Thailand.

Pssst, guess what, the salesmen were always Thai.

[saraburioz]

It seems that Thais seem to lose face when negotiating for extras on a big ticket item, and my friend has gotten upset with me for trying to do so.

I'd say that is a specific issue with your friend, not a trait of Thais, as you seem to think.

Just about all Thais I know negotiate the hell out of anything, big or small and especially big.

I agree - what rubbish about Thais not negotiating when buying a car.

The Thai salesman might lose face when giving a certain type of farang discount - the fat bald one with a twenty year younger farmer's daughter doing all the talking.

[kurnell]

When I was looking at buying a new Civic a few years ago the staff in the Honda showroom looked so disinterested that I gave up before the netotiations began. Then one of them followed us to the door and told us that somebody had just cancelled on a Black one with full options and we could have it immediately. I really didn't feel at all like talking to this person anymore after the first impression and ended up buying a mates' Fortuner at a great price, however I probably would have seriously considered the Civic had the sales people been even vaguely civil from the start. I don't know if rudeness was part of the sales pitch or not, but it didn't work for me.

[Soutpeel]

Just a thought....maybe the OP is buying the car for "his friend" and its actually "the friend" who is losing face, after all all farangs are suppose to be rich so haggling should not come into the equation, they should be rich enough just to pay the asking price ....I may be wrong

[apetley]

To the op can't understand why your friend is upset at haggling the price of a new car.

All, and I mean all of my Thai friends have haggled the last bht out of the salesman when they have bought a vehicle as it's a huge investment for them to make

[Tonto21]

No worries OP, you can negotiate the price just like in the west.

Only one difference; in the west as a general common practice we, as the purchaser sometimes try to find some faults, or a potential flaw with the vehicle to help get a lower price. We walk around the car, clucking,sucking air though our teeth and shaking our heads Not a good idea really to do in Thailand. This doesnot mean we don’t look….But just keep it to yourself."…….Yes it is a face saving thing.

I've found were negotiations start to go pear shaped in Thailand is when people start finding fault and then rubbing it in the sellers face for discount, (like the west) all he hears is you telling him his car is a peace of crap! Way to go! You are far better, (fly in the face of farang logic) say you like his car very much and you would like to buy it. You will have smother negotiate, if you get to the right price buy it, if not, walk away!

I would really suggest you try and buy private, or if you feel brave enough go to a car auction. It would be cheaper. Good luck.

[thequietman]

i have found when buying a new vehicle that they wont budge on the ticket price. i have found this with all the dealers. however they are flexible when it comes to xtras and this is where you save the money. ask for free insurance and tax. get a good finance price, example @ 1 %. get the mats, fancy lights and covers, alloys, window tints, airbags, abs etc.

dont be afraid to ask, and if he wont give them, just walk away. i will guarantee he will follow you to the door. if he doesnt then you know you have got him to the lowest he can go and if you still want it, turn around.

just when he thinks he has got you, hit him for a tank of gas. he will be so exasperated, he will give you it, just to get the sale and get you out..

it worked for me at ford.

good luck.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

It seems that Thais seem to lose face when negotiating for extras on a big ticket item, and my friend has gotten upset with me for trying to do so.

I'd say that is a specific issue with your friend, not a trait of Thais, as you seem to think.

Just about all Thais I know negotiate the hell out of anything, big or small and especially big.

I agree - what rubbish about Thais not negotiating when buying a car.

The Thai salesman might lose face when giving a certain type of farang discount - the fat bald one with a twenty year younger farmer's daughter doing all the talking.

There you go. I didn't want to take the topic in that direction, but based on anecdotal personal observation, it seems that Thais from a wealthy background are specifically the ones negotiating all the way to the moon and back, whereas people from a poorer background who recently found (or married into) somewhat more money seem to think that in order to be perceived as rich, they therefore should not haggle over money, but pretend they're big shots who don't care about getting some discount.

Wealthy Thais tend to remember how they got to be that way: by screwing everyone else out of every single baht that isn't glued to the floor. Or, in an automotive setting, getting every single option invented since man's emergence from Africa thrown in for free.

[rgs2001uk]

Just a thought....maybe the OP is buying the car for "his friend" and its actually "the friend" who is losing face, after all all farangs are suppose to be rich so haggling should not come into the equation, they should be rich enough just to pay the asking price ....I may be wrong

Southie, not so far from the truth.

The partner (Jeez I effin hate that term, if you are gay just say so) was in the showroom gobbing off, lost face because the partner is now seen as kee niaw instead of jai dee, if you are rich enougth to afford a new car you dont sweat the small stuff.

Another angle, excuse my cynicism, I assume the conversation was conducted in Thai, how much did the partner stand to gain from the transaction?

Thais are very good when it comes to spending someone elses money but when it comes to their own they are everybit as kee niaw as the rest of us.

For the OP, bear in mind the car can be put in your name.

[travelmann]

Just a thought....maybe the OP is buying the car for "his friend" and its actually "the friend" who is losing face, after all all farangs are suppose to be rich so haggling should not come into the equation, they should be rich enough just to pay the asking price ....I may be wrong

Wow he must be rich he's buying 2 cars :lol: oooops sorrry double post!!

[gregb]

It seems that Thais seem to lose face when negotiating for extras on a big ticket item, and my friend has gotten upset with me for trying to do so.

I'd say that is a specific issue with your friend, not a trait of Thais, as you seem to think.

Just about all Thais I know negotiate the hell out of anything, big or small and especially big.

Have to agree.

A Thai friend of mine who spoke English once told me when he was preparing to negotiate for a piece of property:

"I will squeeze his balls until he screams like a girl."

He was speaking metaphorically of course. The negotiation was over the phone. I don't think he was worried about losing face.

[manarak]

OP: I don't think the issue was so much about losing face than about what is doable and what not.

I assume the dealers have prices for the base model from which they can't budge much.

Also, the salesmen are just salesmen - employees.

So negotiating them to death on the base price is not advisable, it would be foolish so it would in a sense lead to losing face.

Same as branded electronics - they usually can give about 25% discount on new TVs, etc. But on used stff you can get up to 50%.

As other posters said, get them on the extras.

Negociation is very recommended when the stuff being sold does not come from a factory with a high starting cost.

[Cnxforever]

It seems that Thais seem to lose face when negotiating for extras on a big ticket item, and my friend has gotten upset with me for trying to do so.

I'd say that is a specific issue with your friend, not a trait of Thais, as you seem to think.

Just about all Thais I know negotiate the hell out of anything, big or small and especially big.

I absolutly agree with you WinnieTheKhwai - your friend is probably embarrased that you "need to" bargain the price or bargain for extras.

Don't listen to him and try to get the best possible price / extras - even though car dealerships here don't tend to give you anything.

Although it of course depends on how the car is bought - outright cash or with instalments.

It is in a way a cultural "Thai" thing that first of all - you show your wealth if you are wealthy - and if you can afford it - you do not bargain for anything!

As you are in a Thai's eyes embarrasing yourself if you are considered "rich" and do not throw around with money. (I know we would call it stupid)

And if you can afford to buy a car cash without instalments you are considered rich by most Thais - who including the sales people in the dealership - will find it strange that you would even think of trying to bargain the price down.

If you can afford to buy a car cash people here would expect you to tell them "why is it so incredibly cheap" or give them the feeling that "a million or two are just pocket money". We would call it "show off" for Thais it is "status".

At the end though it is you who pays for it - and you are not Thai - don't get serious about it - try in a funny, polite way to get the best deal possible - after all I am sure your money did not grow on a tree either!

Edited August 9, 2011 by Cnxforever

[mca]

OP: I don't think the issue was so much about losing face than about what is doable and what not.

I assume the dealers have prices for the base model from which they can't budge much.

A neighbour of mine is a sales manager at a local Isuzu dealer and he said there's not a lot of room to maneuver on the price of new cars.

[thaihome]

You don’t lose face for bargaining, you lose face by the attitude you display when doing so, especially when showing frustration that you are not going to get what you want.

As others said, there is very little room on new cars these days for any negotiating. Especially on popular models, it is pretty much take the package offered or nicely walk away. About all you are going to get is floor mats, window tint and some free oil changes and wax jobs.

TH

[mca]

some free oil changes and wax jobs.

There's a double entendre lurking in there somewhere.....

[Dag]

When we bought our new Vigo, we got the price down and extra thrown in........if I lost face....I dun give a shit.

All dealers are different, some do barter, some do not.

We went to our local dealer in town thinking they might give the best local price to keep business here...nope, their arrogant attitude lost them a sale....they said 'we do not offer discounts, we just sit back and wait for all the local business to come to us'........they missed out on one...and a few since on my recommendations.

[thaihome]

some free oil changes and wax jobs.

There's a double entendre lurking in there somewhere.....

[Forethat]

If you're buying a brand new Mitsubishi I would recommend you point at every item there is in the extras catalog. And I mean EVERY item. You may or may not be successful in getting a discount, but get every extra there is.

There's no face thing here. In fact, once you have agreed the deal, you'll have a friend for life. My dealer even brings the family over for dinner sometimes!

Edited August 9, 2011 by Forethat