Hundreds arrested as riots spread to other UK cities

[uptheos]

The government announced at an emergency sitting of parliament, that enough is enough and unprecedented measures are to come into force. Prime Minister David Cameron said; "I didn't want to do it, but I'm afraid I have no alternative but to show these thugs that Britain means business..........as from tomorrow midnight, I'm banning the wearing of the hoodie".

[a51mas]

Standard & Poor's has just downgrade "Great Britain" rating to "Britain + (riot)", it's no longer "Great"

[geriatrickid]

To those that are looking to blame the insufficiency of social assistance as a cause for the riots, I believe Margaret Thatcher explained it best in this speech. How England could have used her steady hand in these turbulent times.

[Steely Dan]

I'm still calling for the rioters to be shot.

They don't deserve to breathe the same air as decent human beings.

I am proud of being English but most certainly not proud of what has become of England.

hear hear, One of the reasons I left Uk was the low life and a generation of lowlife with no respect for themselves or those around them.

One aside I can never understand why shops in the Uk cities have glass fronts with no metal shutters, seems crazy in the 21st century.You can;t imagine that in Bangkok.

Simply another reason why welfare states have to fail.

This is spot on, liberal democracies eventually commit suicide. The welfare state needs to be scrapped, the under-class paid in exchange for mass sterilization and national service in the short term to get the feral rats off the streets. Of course liberals would hold their hands up in horror at such measures, but democracy needs consent in order to function, if enough people reject this then more authoritarian measures are necessary or else you collapse into anarchy.

[midas]

"We want to protect the people of Birmingham by restoring order and returning the city to normality as soon as possible," said West Midlands Assistant Chief Constable Sharon Rowe, adding that there were no reports of major injuries in Birmingham. "We will not tolerate mindless violence anywhere in the West Midlands and are working to hard to ensure that the offenders are identified and caught as soon as possible."

-----------------

What if the violence is not "mindless"? Then, whatchyagonnado? This is all sort of like the captain of the Titanic were he to have been seen stomping his feet on the bridge and declaring that he would not tolerate the sinking of his ship.

Get real Pal,

these are low life ,thugs no ifs about it,a chance opportunity to loot and pillage came along and they took it,with no thought for elderly peoples safety,or indeed anyone else in the community,losers, tossers,trash, scum,the scrounging thieving filth of society,and too ignorant to realise the system that feeds this useless bunch of garbage is the one they are attacking,and i'm being extra polite,while gnashing my teeth to tone it down,on a public forum.

Dont try and turn them into people on a freedom,democratic,anti racial, mission of some sort of <deleted> excuse for these morons,they don't have a brain for that, not with an IQ of probably 28 on a good day.

"is not mindless" you got to be joking!

By the way,the Captain of the Titanic was at least brave enough to go down with his ship,while the carbuncles,boils,leeches,and sickos of society we have witnessed in the last 3 days,dont even warrant a wheelie bin for a coffin.

You don't get it. A "mindless" crowd just pours out onto the street. It seems that many of these rioters have tactics, coordination, and communication. They go where the police aren't. And they've circumvented the much ballyhooed CCTV system through the simple act of covering their faces. This all is simply an upgrading of the "urban" flash mobs that have been operating in the US all summer.

MSNBC reported the following exchange between a young Londoner and a television reporter. The reporter asked:

“Is rioting the correct way to express your discontent?”

“Yes,” said the young man. “You wouldn’t be talking to me now if we didn’t riot, would you?”

The TV reporter from Britain’s ITV had no response. So the young man pressed his advantage. “Two months ago we marched to Scotland Yard, more than 2,000 of us, all blacks, and it was peaceful and calm and you know what? Not a word in the press. Last night a bit of rioting and looting and look around you.”

Eavesdropping from among the onlookers, I looked around. A dozen TV crews and newspaper reporters interviewing the young men everywhere.

http://globalcomment.com/2011/why-riot-and-not-revolt-protest-and-the-london-riots/

[uptheos]

I'm sure that originally said something about hooters and cum!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html

[ludditeman]

I guess you are probably a Red Supporter as well.

Which all your comments could be applied to their argument as well.fact of the matter is the haves,for the most part have worked for what they have got,and the have nots want it all without the effort involved.

All the Liberalism in the world will never change that fact.

So give this mob of violent dregs of society what they want to stop them going on the streets is the answer then?,

So that we can all go out to work and provide for them,so that they won't beat us up and mug us,and burn our housing down,with no thought for the lives of our good Citizens,our Childrens safety,old people,Citizens who work for a living,instead of this trash who think the world owes them a living,with no effort ,or interference in their normal laziness and drug habits?is that the way to go?

OK so they Blackmail us,and we pay them off,to have a peaceful,safe life, Bleeding Heart Liberalism in action.

All that would do is pander to the lazy,weak,scum we have witnessed this week,and create more of them.

As a person recently arrived from the UK, I would like to point out some errors in your thinking.

Most of the 'haves' are 40+ and have had the opportunity to earn pensions, have free university education and the prospects of a nice future.

Most of the 'have nots' are 30-, no longer have access to free or cheap university education, see the state pension age rising to beyond their life expectation, are excluded from those few company pension schemes mainly destroyed by the last two UK governments.

They see a future of poverty and desperation ahead of them.

It doesn't matter how hard they try to work, no education and few jobs is the way it will be for them.

The world doesn't owe them a living, nor can they work to get a living.

Is someone who can't get a job lazy?

Would you be happy to work in an unskilled job all your life for minimum wage?

You now have two separate classes of society in the UK, the young 'have nots' and the older 'haves'

The 'have nots' are likely to start a bitter war of destruction against the 'haves'

The only way this can be stopped is to give the 'have nots' the opportunity to become 'haves'

I'm not sure the rioters are all that mindless either

1) The are using the Blackberry social networking to communicate (encrypted data)

2) When Blackberry offered to help the police, they then hacked the Blackberry website and threatened to release the employee names and addresses to the rioters as a next target.

Blackberry Hacked Website

Seems a smart organized uprising may be on the books.

Edited August 10, 2011 by ludditeman

[midas]

As a person recently arrived from the UK, I would like to point out some errors in your thinking.

Most of the 'haves' are 40+ and have had the opportunity to earn pensions, have free university education and the prospects of a nice future.

Most of the 'have nots' are 30-, no longer have access to free or cheap university education, see the state pension age rising to beyond their life expectation, are excluded from those few company pension schemes mainly destroyed by the last two UK governments.

They see a future of poverty and desperation ahead of them.

It doesn't matter how hard they try to work, no education and few jobs is the way it will be for them.

The world doesn't owe them a living, nor can they work to get a living.

Is someone who can't get a job lazy?

Would you be happy to work in an unskilled job all your life for minimum wage?

You now have two separate classes of society in the UK, the young 'have nots' and the older 'haves'

The 'have nots' are likely to start a bitter war of destruction against the 'haves'

The only way this can be stopped is to give the 'have nots' the opportunity to become 'haves'

But surely nobody is making them work in an unskilled job?

the world is changing quickly and they need to adapt equally as fast . The Asians are prepared to do it so why can't Brits adapt similarly? If prospects are that bad in your home country you can expand your horizons and go in search of something overseas . Think about the boatloads of extremely hard-working Vietnamese who risked their lives sailing to Australia hoping for a better life. The Vietnamese as one example had 10 times less advantages when they escaped the Communist regime than these young people in UK. They didn't even have the ability to speak English or even an understanding of a market economy and yet if you go to Australia today you will not find many that haven't thoroughly prospered. It's all about attitude.

You dont absolutely need a degree to go and seek opportunities in another part of the world. There is nothing to stop them from learning Mandarin example and searching for opportunities over in China or go and search for something in one of the many African countries. they have Internet skills which many in the developing countries still don't have.

Edited August 10, 2011 by midas

[uptheos]

As a person recently arrived from the UK,

Are you a Have or a Have Not?

[ludditeman]

But surely nobody is making them work in an unskilled job?

the world is changing quickly and they need to adapt equally as fast . The Asians are prepared to do it so why can't Brits adapt similarly? If prospects are that bad in your home country you can expand your horizons and go in search of something overseas . Think about the boatloads of extremely hard-working Vietnamese who risked their lives sailing to Australia hoping for a better life. The Vietnamese as one example had 10 times less advantages when they escaped the Communist regime than these young people in UK. They didn't even have the ability to speak English or even an understanding of a market economy and yet if you go to Australia today you will not find many that haven't thoroughly prospered. It's all about attitude.

You dont absolutely need a degree to go and seek opportunities in another part of the world. There is nothing to stop them from learning Mandarin example and searching for opportunities over in China or in one of the many African countries.

Very hard for a poor person in the UK to move to a better country, you need money, even the passport is expensive.

Where could they go? Can't get refugee status in any other country. Can't get VISA.

Vietnamese were in the situation flee or be killed, could get refugee status.

Good luck getting a work permit in China when you have no education or skills, even if you could speak Mandarin.

50 years ago anyone could move to Australia, Canada, etc., now very hard.

All their opportunities have been removed.

More chance in revolution then in running away.

Edited August 10, 2011 by ludditeman

[Steely Dan]

As a person recently arrived from the UK, I would like to point out some errors in your thinking.

Most of the 'haves' are 40+ and have had the opportunity to earn pensions, have free university education and the prospects of a nice future.

Most of the 'have nots' are 30-, no longer have access to free or cheap university education, see the state pension age rising to beyond their life expectation, are excluded from those few company pension schemes mainly destroyed by the last two UK governments.

They see a future of poverty and desperation ahead of them.

It doesn't matter how hard they try to work, no education and few jobs is the way it will be for them.

The world doesn't owe them a living, nor can they work to get a living.

Is someone who can't get a job lazy?

Would you be happy to work in an unskilled job all your life for minimum wage?

You now have two separate classes of society in the UK, the young 'have nots' and the older 'haves'

The 'have nots' are likely to start a bitter war of destruction against the 'haves'

The only way this can be stopped is to give the 'have nots' the opportunity to become 'haves'

I'm not sure the rioters are all that mindless either

1) The are using the Blackberry social networking to communicate (encrypted data)

2) When Blackberry offered to help the police, they then hacked the Blackberry website and threatened to release the employee names and addresses to the rioters as a next target.

Seems a smart organized uprising may be on the books.

Actually there is a lot of sense in your observations. The great Ponzi scheme of Western economies has come to an end. I was the last year but one where students got grants, now they get none and have to pay tuition fees. I took part in the dot com boom, benefited from the housing bubble and then like many of my generation took it easy based on a generational windfall. When the bubble burst debt was pushed onto future generations meaning those who are young now can never dream of having the same living standards as the older generation.

At the time I was not consciously aware that this was a deliberate plan, it's just the way things worked out. This is not the first time one generation has wrecked prospects for the next, look at the first world war for example, but it does not and can not excuse anarchy and I suspect few of the rioters have the wit tosee things in the terms you describe them.

[hammered]

I guess you are probably a Red Supporter as well.

Which all your comments could be applied to their argument as well.fact of the matter is the haves,for the most part have worked for what they have got,and the have nots want it all without the effort involved.

All the Liberalism in the world will never change that fact.

So give this mob of violent dregs of society what they want to stop them going on the streets is the answer then?,

So that we can all go out to work and provide for them,so that they won't beat us up and mug us,and burn our housing down,with no thought for the lives of our good Citizens,our Childrens safety,old people,Citizens who work for a living,instead of this trash who think the world owes them a living,with no effort ,or interference in their normal laziness and drug habits?is that the way to go?

OK so they Blackmail us,and we pay them off,to have a peaceful,safe life, Bleeding Heart Liberalism in action.

All that would do is pander to the lazy,weak,scum we have witnessed this week,and create more of them.

As a person recently arrived from the UK, I would like to point out some errors in your thinking.

Most of the 'haves' are 40+ and have had the opportunity to earn pensions, have free university education and the prospects of a nice future.

Most of the 'have nots' are 30-, no longer have access to free or cheap university education, see the state pension age rising to beyond their life expectation, are excluded from those few company pension schemes mainly destroyed by the last two UK governments.

They see a future of poverty and desperation ahead of them.

It doesn't matter how hard they try to work, no education and few jobs is the way it will be for them.

The world doesn't owe them a living, nor can they work to get a living.

Is someone who can't get a job lazy?

Would you be happy to work in an unskilled job all your life for minimum wage?

You now have two separate classes of society in the UK, the young 'have nots' and the older 'haves'

The 'have nots' are likely to start a bitter war of destruction against the 'haves'

The only way this can be stopped is to give the 'have nots' the opportunity to become 'haves'

I'm not sure the rioters are all that mindless either

1) The are using the Blackberry social networking to communicate (encrypted data)

2) When Blackberry offered to help the police, they then hacked the Blackberry website and threatened to release the employee names and addresses to the rioters as a next target.

Blackberry Hacked Website

Seems a smart organized uprising may be on the books.

That is basically a good analysis concerning inner city areas.

Obviously the rioting has to be ended or end, and it looks like Cameron to date is going for a let it burn itself out strategy with half a mind on the olympics and not wanting to do something that would lose the games, but whne it is all over the root causes and their are a myriad of them need to be addressed and quickly otherwise it will just become a vicious cycle

[uptheos]

There is nothing to stop them from learning Mandarin example and searching for opportunities over in China or in one of the many African countries.

Most can't learn English!

[hammered]

It seems two asian youths were deliberately run over and killed by rioters in Birmingham. That is a potentially explosive development in Birmingham

[uptheos]

It seems two asian youths were deliberately run over and killed by rioters in Birmingham. That is a potentially explosive development in Birmingham

Source?

[hammered]

It seems two asian youths were deliberately run over and killed by rioters in Birmingham. That is a potentially explosive development in Birmingham

Source?

Guardian has sky news as confirming it. The story has been around on British asian tv, and within the asian community for an hour or two now

[uptheos]

It seems two asian youths were deliberately run over and killed by rioters in Birmingham. That is a potentially explosive development in Birmingham

Source?

Guardian has sky news as confirming it. The story has been around on British asian tv, and within the asian community for an hour or two now

Cheers, I'll have a peek.

[Chamezz]

Should throw in some shrapnel grenades amongst the rioters, then refuse medical assistance, problem solved.

[uptheos]

It seems two asian youths were deliberately run over and killed by rioters in Birmingham. That is a potentially explosive development in Birmingham

Source?

Guardian has sky news as confirming it. The story has been around on British asian tv, and within the asian community for an hour or two now

Couldn't see it in The Guardian or Sky News, but I just skimmed.

I did however see it in this propaganda site called Islam v Europe: islamversuseurope.blogspot.com

Wednesday, 10 August 2011

Negro versus Asian Race War in Birmingham

03:55 | Posted by Cheradenine ZakalweThere are indications - not from reliable sources as yet, it must be stressed, but worth taking note of all the same - that a race war may have broken out in Birmingham between negroes and "Asians". Two Asians (Shazad Hussain and his brother 'Harry', reportedly shop owners) appear to have been killed after having been run over by a car. The action seems to be centred on the Aston area.

[HeavyDrinker]

Frankly I can't accept this "bleak future" crap.

The future of most generations since WWII has been "bleak".

From the post war 50's with rationing still in place, the UK heavily in debt and losing out on industry hand over foot, to the Thatcher years where the Tories sold the country to the highest bidder, through to the Blair years and all of the promised "New Labour, New deals" which never came to pass.

I'm afraid it's been the same old story for every generation.

If you want to be a "have" you have to get off your arse and make it happen.

Stealing and destroying the property of others just because you feel you have "no future" simply isn't an excuse.

[HeavyDrinker]

As for a "Negro v Asian war" in Birmingham, well that can of worms has been waiting to be opened fully for a long time.

I suppose they'll try and blame the police for that one too...

[hammered]

It seems two asian youths were deliberately run over and killed by rioters in Birmingham. That is a potentially explosive development in Birmingham

Source?

Guardian has sky news as confirming it. The story has been around on British asian tv, and within the asian community for an hour or two now

Cheers, I'll have a peek.

Guardian now reporting it in very tempered lacking info way on their live blog page. It is a good few hours after it happened and was on a Sikh (?) channel where they even had a brother of the deceased running from the hospital telling reporters his brother was dead before the channel cut. No doubt more will come out but this potentially takes things to a new extreme. How carefully the mainstream media are handling it seems to indicate everyone is aware of where this one could go although hopefully calmer heads will prevail

[uptheos]

Guardian now reporting it in very tempered lacking info way on their live blog page. It is a good few hours after it happened and was on a Sikh (?) channel where they even had a brother of the deceased running from the hospital telling reporters his brother was dead before the channel cut. No doubt more will come out but this potentially takes things to a new extreme. How carefully the mainstream media are handling it seems to indicate everyone is aware of where this one could go although hopefully calmer heads will prevail

This REALLY could start something and if it's true "you aint seen nothing yet".

[uptheos]

"The Islamic Consultative Assembly (Iranian parliament) announces its readiness to send a human rights delegation to Britain to study human rights violations in the country," said Hossein Ebrahimi, deputy head of the country's national security and foreign policy commission.

"We urge the British government and the regime's embassy in Tehran to provide the ground for the presence of the Iranian human rights rapporteurs in Britain and avoid making unreal excuses."

http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16046569

You couldn't make it up could you?

[hammered]

Guardian now reporting it in very tempered lacking info way on their live blog page. It is a good few hours after it happened and was on a Sikh (?) channel where they even had a brother of the deceased running from the hospital telling reporters his brother was dead before the channel cut. No doubt more will come out but this potentially takes things to a new extreme. How carefully the mainstream media are handling it seems to indicate everyone is aware of where this one could go although hopefully calmer heads will prevail

This REALLY could start something and if it's true "you aint seen nothing yet".

A third person now confirmed dead by family memebers and large crowds gathering at the hospital according to BBC

[uptheos]

A third person now confirmed dead by family memebers and large crowds gathering at the hospital according to BBC

SHIT!!

[trevorg]

can someone educate me here....is this a racial riot as it seems alot of rioters are ethnics.....or is it a multicolour rebellion of t the lower echelons of the Brit caste system.....

Whilst moonrakers briefly answered your question, and I read to the end of the thread to check nobody else did, I don't believe that this is racial, yet, but (as I now read at the end of the thread), it could quite easily turn into that. Most of the areas where the rioting & looting are/have taking place are multi-cultural/ multi- ethnic areas which still have white populations, and the 'mix' of colours in the crowds probably reflects the mix of that community. However in London, I am sure that the crowds have been moving from local town centre to the next, Tottenham to Enfield, Brixton to Clapham, Croydon to Lewisham, Peckam and Woolwich etc. One thing is clear, it's mainly teenagers!

I don't believe it's highly organised, just kids following the 'social networks' like sheep.

Underlying causes, no parental guidance, no fear of the possible (far to lenient) punishment, no sense of community responsibility, the belief of no future prospects. How to fix it, I haven't got a clue!

[hammered]

can someone educate me here....is this a racial riot as it seems alot of rioters are ethnics.....or is it a multicolour rebellion of t the lower echelons of the Brit caste system.....

Whilst moonrakers briefly answered your question, and I read to the end of the thread to check nobody else did, I don't believe that this is racial, yet, but (as I now read at the end of the thread), it could quite easily turn into that. Most of the areas where the rioting & looting are/have taking place are multi-cultural/ multi- ethnic areas which still have white populations, and the 'mix' of colours in the crowds probably reflects the mix of that community. However in London, I am sure that the crowds have been moving from local town centre to the next, Tottenham to Enfield, Brixton to Clapham, Croydon to Lewisham, Peckam and Woolwich etc. One thing is clear, it's mainly teenagers!

I don't believe it's highly organised, just kids following the 'social networks' like sheep.

Underlying causes, no parental guidance, no fear of the possible (far to lenient) punishment, no sense of community responsibility, the belief of no future prospects. How to fix it, I haven't got a clue!

Good analysis

[RHCP]

Guardian now reporting it in very tempered lacking info way on their live blog page. It is a good few hours after it happened and was on a Sikh (?) channel where they even had a brother of the deceased running from the hospital telling reporters his brother was dead before the channel cut. No doubt more will come out but this potentially takes things to a new extreme. How carefully the mainstream media are handling it seems to indicate everyone is aware of where this one could go although hopefully calmer heads will prevail

This REALLY could start something and if it's true "you aint seen nothing yet".

A third person now confirmed dead by family memebers and large crowds gathering at the hospital according to BBC

It seems that some people have given up on the police protecting them and are setting up vigilantes, particularly amongst the Asian community and in particular the Sikhs in various areas of Birmingham along with Smethwick and West Bromwich. I have read of some confrontations and some rioters getting beaten up although these encounters can’t yet be confirmed.

I think the Asian community will have memories of the last major riots in the 1980s and will not allow a repeat.

[hammered]

The three dead men in Birmingham had apparently come out of their mosque to defend their neighbourhood.