Riots and looting spreads to Greater Manchester on fourth day of violence

[Puccini]

Fast-track justice: how the courts are dealing with the UK riots

• Updates from courts around the country throughout the day

• Solihull and Manchester magistrates courts sit overnight

• Cases include man who stole £5,000 worth of perfume

Riazat Butt, Jeevan Vasagar and agencies

guardian.co.uk, Thursday 11 August 2011 12.46 BST

Solihull magistrates have sent 20 people to prison following an all-night session to deal with disorder suspects, which included a man who stole £3,500 worth of cigarettes and another who stole £5,000 worth of perfume.

In total 26 defendants came before the court between 7pm on Wednesday night and 6.30am on Thursday morning on arson, theft, violent disorder and burglary charges.

And more than 110 of those charged by police in Manchester appeared overnight before a special sitting at Manchester magistrates court. Police have arrested 145 people, mainly for offences committed on Tuesday night. They include an 18-year-old man being questioned on suspicion of arson after a Miss Selfridge outlet was torched.

Read more: www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/11/fast-track-justice-courts-riots

[transam]

When things like this happen in England, I do ask myself, why am I in the Navy protecting a country of animals.

I feel sorry for all those that have died to give freedom and safety to people that don't deserve it. They run around saying people should respect them. How have they earn't that respect. Scum of the earth, if you ask me.

Sorry, rant over.

No rant. I agree with you totally.

[transam]

Reminds me of british tourists abroad under influence.

Hooligans is that what they are called? Must be! Has anyone ever heard of Canadian hooligan? I never have.

Edmonton riots 2006

Montreal riots 2008

There are of course more, google is your friend.

Thanks for that, trying to think of the events.

[freebyrd]

Speaking from experience? The point is I think that individuals dumb as rocks can be re-educated given the right resources.

And my point is that I don't think it's the job of the Armed Forces to act as a sort of alternative Prison Service. If these individuals can be re-educated then let's set up some sort of system to do so and leave the Armed Forces to do what they're designed to do.

Fair point, however that will take time to do, meanwhile, use the resources available.

[transam]

Speaking from experience? The point is I think that individuals dumb as rocks can be re-educated given the right resources.

And my point is that I don't think it's the job of the Armed Forces to act as a sort of alternative Prison Service. If these individuals can be re-educated then let's set up some sort of system to do so and leave the Armed Forces to do what they're designed to do.

Fair point, however that will take time to do, meanwhile, use the resources available.

I recall a UK story where a UK young asshol_e that they couldn't do much with was given ever chance and help to get straightened out, the culmination was a holiday in, l think, the Bahama's or somewhere similar, at great expense to the tax payer. Came back and got knicked straight away.

Edited August 11, 2011 by transam

[endure]

Time is long overdue to bring back National Service. A couple of years in uniform would straighten them out. In the good old days, the choice was Borstal or the army and many a toe rag turned into well rounded adults as a result.

The job of the Armed Forces is to protect the country. For that we need professional, volunteer, committed people not thugs who are as dumb as rocks.

They are committed maybe, but why would anyone not dumb as rocks join the army?

If I was 16 again (I wish) I'd seriously consider a career in the Armed Forces. Lots of opportunities for all sorts of training and advancement. Not sure if it would be the Army - I did spend 10 years in the Merchant Navy so I'd probably sign up with the RN.

Edited August 11, 2011 by endure

[Puccini]

Birmingham vigil: 'The three who died, died nobly. Don't riot in their name' - video

John Domokos and Mustafa Khalili

guardian.co.uk, Thursday 11 August 2011

At an emotional vigil for the three men killed during riots in Birmingham, Sikhs and Muslims debate the best response to tensions in the city.

Haroon Jahan, 21, and brothers Shahzad Ali, 30, and Abdul Musavir, 31 were among around 80 people guarding property from looters in Winson Green when they were the victims of a hit-and-run early on Wednesday

Read more: www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2011/aug/11/birmingham-vigil-died-riot-video?intcmp=239

[Puccini]

UK Riots 2011: Cameron to Step Down over “Savage Treatment” of Rioters, say Libya and Iran

By Anissa Haddadi | August 11, 2011 9:22 AM GMT

Following four days of rioting in the UK, with groups of people causing havoc on the streets in cities such as London, Birmingham, Liverpool and Manchester, the Libyan leader, has criticised David Cameron's call for more police power and accused him of launching a 'crackdown on protesters'.

While the NATO operation led by the UK and France started after Gadhafi was accused of using violence to crush opposition protests with allegations that his forces fired live ammunitions into crowds, the embattled leader has attempted to turn the tables on Mr Cameron.

Read more: uk.ibtimes.com/articles/196098/20110811/uk-riots-2011-cameron-to-step-down-over-savage-treatment-of-rioters-say-libya-and-iran.htm

[Fookhaht]

Reminds me of british tourists abroad under influence.

Hooligans is that what they are called? Must be! Has anyone ever heard of Canadian hooligan? I never have.

Edmonton riots 2006

Montreal riots 2008

There are of course more, google is your friend.

Vancouver B.C. riot: 2011

[jamescollister]

Strange that those who try and justify the riots, the PC crowd. Come up with the same reasons and answers as they have for over 30 years. No one can deny that money has been thrown at theses social issues, yet things are worse. If you have a rabid dog no matter how well you treat it, it will bite you. There are real things that can be done and there are airy fariy cloud in the sky things, which cost money. The UK has no money to spare. Put the dog down and there is no chance it will bite.

The rights of the individual or a minority can never be more than the rights of the majority, that includes the rich and powerful. The time has come in all western nations for Governments to stop dictating and start representing the wishes of the people. I fear that what is happening through out our world is going to escalate. Look at Yugoslavia, a stable nation for years, then in no time a butchers paradise.

These riots did not build up over time , but were spontaneous. No pre planning was involved, they just happened. What's next, snipers in high buildings protecting Muslim areas, Black no go areas for whites and walled white districts. Jim

[Puccini]

Years of liberal dogma have spawned a generation of amoral, uneducated, welfare dependent, brutalised youngsters

By MAX HASTINGS

Last updated at 12:49 PM on 10th August 2011

A few weeks after the U.S. city of Detroit was ravaged by 1967 race riots in which 43 people died, I was shown around the wrecked areas by a black reporter named Joe Strickland.

He said: ‘Don’t you believe all that stuff people here are giving media folk about how sorry they are about what happened. When they talk to each other, they say: “It was a great fire, man!” ’

I am sure that is what many of the young rioters, black and white, who have burned and looted in England through the past few shocking nights think today.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2024284/UK-riots-2011-Liberal-dogma-spawned-generation-brutalised-youths.html#ixzz1UjGaXVHw

[tlansford]

Agreed. Huey's hogwash shows he really doesn't understand the problems or the solutions. I'm sure the British are now even more averse to guns - it would cause a hell of a lot of deaths by the rioters. Guns are the worst possible ingredient here.

I disagree. Rioters in the USA don't use guns. They know that's a game changer. Unarmed, they can rampage without much worry. If they get beat, they can sue. If they have guns, all bets are off. They no longer blend in with their biggest protection - being one of a large mass of people and mostly unidentifiable. If they are carrying a gun, they can be shot on the spot. That's why in a country with as many guns as the USA, you don't see people sporting them during riots.

So if guns are the answer why do people still riot in the USA?

Guns are the answer to keep riots from getting out of control. Guns work great for self-protection. In England, three immigrants were run over and killed protecting their neighborhood. Twenty years ago in the LA riot, immigrants had guns and protected their shops with rifles from the rooftops.

In the USA they don't riot anywhere on the scale of what is happening across England or what happened in 300 towns in France a few years back.

The reasons for riots in the USA in recent history have been to protest IMF meetings (anarchist wannabes) and because their sports team won the championship. Yep, you read that last one right. The streets fill up with celebrating drunks and someone breaks a window or something and mob mentality takes over. Even rich white kids riot in those instances. About a decade ago when the American football team in Boston won their first championship, students from top universities hit the streets drunk and ended up burning cars, looting, breaking windows. I never heard of them attacking people or robbing them though and it doesn't go on for days either.

guns are the answer, ... yeah right

BTW, you've heard of Detroit every Halloween, haven't you.

One could argue that the daily, normal, violence in the USA worse than the worst day in ANY European country.

Keep your guns and keep shootin' each other...

Edited August 11, 2011 by tlansford

[Puccini]

The above article “Years of liberal dogma have spawned a generation of amoral, uneducated, welfare dependent, brutalised youngsters” is quite long, but worth reading. It makes no apologies for the rioters, just telling the facts:

• They are illiterate and innumerate...
  
• They are essentially wild beasts...
  
• They respond only to instinctive animal impulses...
  
• The notions of doing a nine-to-five job, marrying and sticking with a wife and kids, taking up DIY or learning to read properly, are beyond their imaginations...
  
• A key factor in delinquency is lack of effective sanctions to deter it...
  
• The judiciary colludes with social services and infinitely ingenious lawyers to assert the primacy of the rights of the criminal and aggressor over those of law-abiding citizens, especially if a young offender is involved...
  
• They are an absolute deadweight upon society, because they contribute nothing yet cost the taxpayer billions...
  

Edited August 11, 2011 by Puccini

[endure]

Speaking from experience? The point is I think that individuals dumb as rocks can be re-educated given the right resources.

And my point is that I don't think it's the job of the Armed Forces to act as a sort of alternative Prison Service. If these individuals can be re-educated then let's set up some sort of system to do so and leave the Armed Forces to do what they're designed to do.

Fair point, however that will take time to do, meanwhile, use the resources available.

I recall a UK story where a UK young asshol_e that they couldn't do much with was given ever chance and help to get straightened out, the culmination was a holiday in, l think, the Bahama's or somewhere similar, at great expense to the tax payer. Came back and got knicked straight away.

As freebyrd has said it is possible to turn the lives of people around. Sending them to the Bahamas is obviously not the way to do it but I don't think that we ought to expect the Forces to put their lives on the line for us and act as a sort of Borstal as well. If there are methods which work in reforming people they ought to be a separate system to allow the Forces to get on with their own job.

[uptheos]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2024727/England-riots-Internet-virals-lighthearted-view-unrest.html

I wonder which one we have?

[endure]

[Puccini]

Smile stupid, you’re on CCTV: West Midlands Police release photos of looters… now help us identify them

By DAILY MAIL REPORTER

Last updated at 3:42 PM on 11th August 2011

CCTV images of looters who went on the rampage in Birmingham and Liverpool on Monday have been published by detectives.

Police are trying to trace the culprits who caused extensive damage in the city and looted dozens of shops.

The gallery of suspects has been posted on the web by West Midlands police who are urging anyone who recognises those snapped to call them on 0800 096 0095.

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2024811/UK-riots-2011-West-Midlands-Police-release-CCTV-photos-looters.html#ixzz1Ujml22GH

[Puccini]

UK riots: More than 1,000 arrests strain legal system to the limit

Courts sit overnight as fragile calm prevails in London but Birmingham, Manchester and elsewhere see looting and fires

James Meikle and Sam Jones

guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 10 August 2011 14.31 BST

Courts have sat through the night to deal with criminal charges from four nights of looting and rioting in English cities.

In London many of the accused are thought to have been remanded on bail with curfews. Extra court sittings were being arranged elsewhere as David Cameron gave carte blanche to the police on manpower and tactics, including the use of water cannon. This was despite comments on Tuesday from the home secretary, Theresa May, playing down the likelihood of their use.

Read more (with video): www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/10/london-riots-spark-copycat-birmingham

[Puccini]

11 August 2011 Last updated at 12:08 GMT

Nottingham district judge hits out at riot sentences

A district judge dealing with cases relating to disorder in Nottingham has said people should speak to the government if sentences seemed lenient.

Tim Devas, district judge at Nottingham Magistrates Court, also told Craig Cave, 26, of Burrows Avenue, Beeston, to "sort his life out".

Cave was found guilty of obstructing the police and was fined £60.

Read more: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-14491187

[jamescollister]

Smile stupid, you’re on CCTV: West Midlands Police release photos of looters… now help us identify them

By DAILY MAIL REPORTER

Last updated at 3:42 PM on 11th August 2011

CCTV images of looters who went on the rampage in Birmingham and Liverpool on Monday have been published by detectives.

Police are trying to trace the culprits who caused extensive damage in the city and looted dozens of shops.

The gallery of suspects has been posted on the web by West Midlands police who are urging anyone who recognises those snapped to call them on 0800 096 0095.

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2024811/UK-riots-2011-West-Midlands-Police-release-CCTV-photos-looters.html#ixzz1Ujml22GH

Can't say if the policy is still the same in the west mid police, but when I was there it was always show one white description for one black. Even thought they may have had 20 muggings by blacks and one by a white, you only release two descriptions. Ergo crime was an equal opportunity act. Jim

[transam]

11 August 2011 Last updated at 12:08 GMT

Nottingham district judge hits out at riot sentences

A district judge dealing with cases relating to disorder in Nottingham has said people should speak to the government if sentences seemed lenient.

Tim Devas, district judge at Nottingham Magistrates Court, also told Craig Cave, 26, of Burrows Avenue, Beeston, to "sort his life out".

Cave was found guilty of obstructing the police and was fined £60.

Read more: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-14491187

60 quid, are they having a laugh, well the scum are. UK has gone mad.

[ajarnmark]

3 Pak vigilantes dead in UK riots

BIRMINGHAM (Agencies) - Three Pakistani nationals were killed here on Wednesday while protecting their community from the rioters, British police said.

There are private citizens trying to stop this madness.

If a Pakistani origin person kills someone then the whole western jumps in and suggesting to bomb Pakistan...

But if someone kills many Pakistani then the same media is silent (criminally)...

[jamescollister]

3 Pak vigilantes dead in UK riots

BIRMINGHAM (Agencies) - Three Pakistani nationals were killed here on Wednesday while protecting their community from the rioters, British police said.

There are private citizens trying to stop this madness.

If a Pakistani origin person kills someone then the whole western jumps in and suggesting to bomb Pakistan...

But if someone kills many Pakistani then the same media is silent (criminally)...

If white people defend there homes and shops they are suddenly Neo Nazi. Jim

[MAJIC]

11 August 2011 Last updated at 12:08 GMT

Nottingham district judge hits out at riot sentences

A district judge dealing with cases relating to disorder in Nottingham has said people should speak to the government if sentences seemed lenient.

Tim Devas, district judge at Nottingham Magistrates Court, also told Craig Cave, 26, of Burrows Avenue, Beeston, to "sort his life out".

Cave was found guilty of obstructing the police and was fined £60.

Read more: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-14491187

60 quid, are they having a laugh, well the scum are. UK has gone mad.

You fined £60 now for doing 37 mph in a 30 mile zone,and that's just for lack of concentration.

[carenot]

Strange that those who try and justify the riots, the PC crowd. Come up with the same reasons and answers as they have for over 30 years. No one can deny that money has been thrown at theses social issues, yet things are worse. If you have a rabid dog no matter how well you treat it, it will bite you. There are real things that can be done and there are airy fariy cloud in the sky things, which cost money. The UK has no money to spare. Put the dog down and there is no chance it will bite.

The rights of the individual or a minority can never be more than the rights of the majority, that includes the rich and powerful. The time has come in all western nations for Governments to stop dictating and start representing the wishes of the people. I fear that what is happening through out our world is going to escalate. Look at Yugoslavia, a stable nation for years, then in no time a butchers paradise.

These riots did not build up over time , but were spontaneous. No pre planning was involved, they just happened. What's next, snipers in high buildings protecting Muslim areas, Black no go areas for whites and walled white districts. Jim

I'll have to agree I think an escalation is more likely than not , people from many walks of life are fed up with politicians and the unaccountability of all those in power, they are sick of the police, any ex-police feel free to disagree but in the last 25-30 years the vast majority I have dealt with are arrogant , rude, scruffy and in serious need of being taken down a peg many seaming to think they are themselves above the law but maybe that's also because they too have lacked proper discipline and education, and by education I mean in life as well as textbook, in their formative years.

The lack of discipline in schools is also a prime example of something which has slowly been eroded over the last 25+ years.

However I cannot condone the burning but the looting, hey a couple TVs pails into insignificants compared to what our trusty old establishments have been robbing for many years just wish those rioting would/could target the right people and not the innocent

Before anyone points out the blazingly obvious I am fully aware that lots of the rioters are only involved for the fires and the freebies, but not all.

[Goshawk]

3 Pak vigilantes dead in UK riots

BIRMINGHAM (Agencies) - Three Pakistani nationals were killed here on Wednesday while protecting their community from the rioters, British police said.

There are private citizens trying to stop this madness.

If a Pakistani origin person kills someone then the whole western jumps in and suggesting to bomb Pakistan...

But if someone kills many Pakistani then the same media is silent (criminally)...

yep.. the British media is heavily pushing this Father of one of the murdered muslim kids testimony that, 'nobody should over react & seek vengeance' etc.. - his decision to say that is a dream come true for the petrified political class & government in the UK.

note how the identity of the 'man assisting police enquiries' over this triple murder has not been revealed in the media..(certainly not in the immediate aftermath/cooling off period) if it is likely to come out that he is a white local male, then you just watch this already bone dry tinder box erupt into a maelstrom of fire down there in Brum... A 'war' will erupt that will make London look like a boy scouts campfire.

[maidu]

Free birth control for anyone. Free tubes tied in clinics - for any adults who consent. It won't help in this riot or the riots of the next twenty years, but over time - lessening the human overpopulation of the planet will help ease such problems a bit. Look at one of the root causes: too many people packed in finite spaces. What happens when you let rats (or rabbits or lizards or cockroaches or camels) propagate willy nilly in a large house with some food? They multiply and wind up running riot (pun intended).

[Goshawk]

regarding the feral underclass... I remember James Whale's (straight talking, no nonsense british radio presenter & legend) serious take on population control :

1. all males should be sterilized at birth

2. at 18, they apply (if they so wish) for a license to breed

3. extensive checks are done on them & their circumstances

4. if they pass, they get the reversal operation..

I think he still advocates it.. (along with Nazis.??)

[Moonrakers]

Why are people so determined to make this a race thing?

[endure]

Why are people so determined to make this a race thing?

Because after 20 years of blaming 'immigrants' for everything it comes as something of a surprise to them that white folks can be <deleted> too.