Legendary British Farmer Joe Loses Water-Tight 30-Year Lease In Thailand

[bristolgeoff]

the real devil is the ex wife,must be a right cow.taking everything he owns slowly slowly

[Estrada]

Not true of all Thai Women, My Thai wife married me when I had no money after losing it with another Thai Woman in the UK. My Thai wife who worked with me in the UK, stuck with me through thick and thin even when we got down to my last 25 Baht. Her friends think she is crazy but she loves me not for money as I had none when I met her. She married me for love and companionship for sure. We have 3 children at University and I am now quite wealthy again.

Edited August 22, 2011 by Lite Beer

[jackinbkk]

I have to say that stories like this concern me.

I don't know much about other countries but not being able to own anything, signing papers to say items are not yours and living in a country where you are a non-immigrant (whatever that means!) all sets alarm bells ringing.

Why do you think this is?

Perhaps Thailand realises that many relationships in Thailand are young women fooling old men and taking everything. The stance that there is no prostitution in Thailand and that it is ilegal is so laughable it's not funny. Foreigner comes in. All wealth is removed. Foreigner leaves. Wealth remains.

I have been with my girlfriend for nearly 5 years. She knows I'd like to own a home in Thailand and live there as she would.

The language and cultural barriers are quite frightening. I don't speak Thai and I can't read it either. I expect many partners are in the same situation. For all I know she could be speaking to her husband or a lesbian partner telling them that operation clean out the farang is in full swing while sat holding my hand and smiling into my eyes.

Emails in Thai and documents on the screeen might as well be in binary or blank.

All I can think is be careful.

I know your partner is different. As is my girlfriend

It's amazing how well partners in the UK do on a divorce and here we can own things.

Nobody ever goes into a relationship expecting to be 'taken to the cleaners'

[overhaul38]

Nothing new or surprising. Everyone should know that Farangs are considered visitors and conduct yourself with a heightened sense skepticism at all times. A smart person would realize he is playing a rigged game with a marked deck and go home where he is considered a real person. If he stays he will lose any sympathy I have for him.

Edited August 22, 2011 by overhaul38

[a99az]

Children back home in England in government care?..Britain heading for double dip recession?..Thanks to amongst others, people like farmer Joe who shirk their responsibilities and pile them on to the over burdened welfare state..Karma for you Joe, as a farmer, you are now reaping what you sow...no pun intended

How can you say this, you don't know the FULL story, or do you? He might think that this was the best for the children. He might be planing to take his children back as soon as he has sorted his life out. I would rather leave my children in the UK than on some farm in the back of nowhere. I hope he can recover, and get his kids and his life back together soon. Good luck Joe.

[Thakkar]

To whom it may concern:check your 30 year leases!

To whom it may concern: check your wife !

Indeed. The lease is merely the symptom; the wife's the disease.

[TAWP]

To whom it may concern:check your 30 year leases!

To whom it may concearn: Check your 30 year old wife.

[a99az]

Any farang that puts 22 rai of land in the name of a Thai wife is insane. Do you think she married that old goat for love and companionship ? Thais marry all farang for money...nothing else.

Well! what an insightful doctor you are, and so well informed about the motives of Thai lady's. I however find it hard to believe that any woman would have children with a man she did not have some feelings for.

I do get the feeling that your own bitter view of Thai lady's could be the result of being shunned, or let down by a Thai lady at some point.

[a99az]

Any farang that puts 22 rai of land in the name of a Thai wife is insane. Do you think she married that old goat for love and companionship ? Thais marry all farang for money...nothing else.

Well! what an insightful doctor you are, and so well informed about the motives of Thai lady's. I however find it hard to believe that any woman would have children with a man she did not have some feelings for.

I do get the feeling that your own bitter view of Thai lady's could be the result of being shunned, or let down by a Thai lady at some point.

[metisdead]

A post has been removed as a poster had deleted quoted post headers as he had reached the maximum number of nested quotes allowed. When replying to certain parts of a post, learn how to use the Insert quotation feature:

[travelmann]

I'm not a Lawyer but i think this a far better agreement, much cheaper to set up and it's for your life.

Usufruct Agreements in Thailand

Usufruct contracts are governed by sections 1417 to 1428 of the Commercial and Civil Code of Thailand. A usufruct is a right granted by the owner(s) of the land/house in favor of a usufructuary whereby this person has the right to possess, use and enjoy the benefits of an immovable property (section 1417 CCCT). The usufructuary has the right to manage the property (sect 1414 CCCT). It can be on a piece of land, on a house or on both of them.

I tried to get a usufruct stamp (yes, one exists) from the lands department in Koh Samui. My wife was present and fully supported the stamp as it made our marriage 'equal' and took pressure off her from her mother who was taking a very keen interest in our assets. The land officer (the big boss in the office might I add) refused to issue one to us despite both parties asking and our land title being clear, undisputed chanote in my wifes name. His reasoning was that she shouldn't trust me because I was farang and a usufruct stamp was going against the interests of the country.

Seriously.

What a to**er but then to be expected here, I had no trouble getting one at Sam Roi Yot if you call a 5 hour wait no trouble.

The land officers word is final too so it just means they can do what they want with impunity.

We were told the forst time to wait until the current officer left as he didnt like doing them, as soon as he'd gone it was done.

They move them around every few years to try and stop corruption................yeah bet that works!!

[travelmann]

To whom it may concern:check your 30 year leases!

Better still really check your Thai wive's background, to see boyfriend or husband waiting to get your loot!

Seen it too many times with too many friends! They lost everything!

If a Thai woman loves you ask her to marry you for nothing! See her run! To the next.... opportunity...:jap:

Dunt say much about your friends choices then, I married mine for nowt well when i say nowt it did cost about 800 baht for the roadside meal............that wa s 5 years ago.

[letitbe]

Any farang that puts 22 rai of land in the name of a Thai wife is insane. Do you think she married that old goat for love and companionship ? Thais marry all farang for money...nothing else.

im obviously totally loopy nearly everything is in my thai wifes name over 100 million baht worth. Who cares if you don't trust your wife don't marry. If she runs off with it all easy come easy go. Has worked for me fine over 15 years now but then i stupid I know. I worry more about her stock market looses at moment and weather she says we can afford next trip skiing althoughI am getting very long in tooth for that. Maybe she married for money but why she stays who knows now she has 90% of it maybe guilt fear of KArma or maybe she just likes living with me even after 15 years and ive promised I cant go more than another 15 years or so now im 85. She said you promised me that when you were 60 and I was only 24 and reckons ill say it if i get to 90+

[Grove]

I'm not a Lawyer but i think this a far better agreement, much cheaper to set up and it's for your life.

Usufruct Agreements in Thailand

Usufruct contracts are governed by sections 1417 to 1428 of the Commercial and Civil Code of Thailand. A usufruct is a right granted by the owner(s) of the land/house in favor of a usufructuary whereby this person has the right to possess, use and enjoy the benefits of an immovable property (section 1417 CCCT). The usufructuary has the right to manage the property (sect 1414 CCCT). It can be on a piece of land, on a house or on both of them.

I tried to get a usufruct stamp (yes, one exists) from the lands department in Koh Samui. My wife was present and fully supported the stamp as it made our marriage 'equal' and took pressure off her from her mother who was taking a very keen interest in our assets. The land officer (the big boss in the office might I add) refused to issue one to us despite both parties asking and our land title being clear, undisputed chanote in my wifes name. His reasoning was that she shouldn't trust me because I was farang and a usufruct stamp was going against the interests of the country.

Seriously.

Ran into the same problem. Found out later, my wife was the culprit. Get your Lawyer that drew up the contract to speak to the land office while you are there.

[andrewdrummond]

I really think the topic title should be changed to

British Farmer loses Land Lease on his Farm after NOT reading the contracts and being Screwed over by his Ex Wife

the title is suggesting that the 30 year lease term can infact be revoked, but in this case it is being revoked because he was screwed over and didnt read the contracts, could happen to anyone, anywhere if you do not use the correct lawyer and look at your contracts

To whom it may concern:check your 30 year leases!

To whom it may concern: check your wife !

spot on

The point of contention is that the lease was changed after he signed it

[janverbeem]

I really think the topic title should be changed to

British Farmer loses Land Lease on his Farm after NOT reading the contracts and being Screwed over by his Ex Wife

the title is suggesting that the 30 year lease term can infact be revoked, but in this case it is being revoked because he was screwed over and didnt read the contracts, could happen to anyone, anywhere if you do not use the correct lawyer and look at your contracts

To whom it may concern:check your 30 year leases!

To whom it may concern: check your wife !

spot on

The point of contention is that the lease was changed after he signed it

Any lease of more than 3 years need to be legally registered at the landoffice.How they can change a lease document after it was registered?

[andrewdrummond]

It is not at all clear from the story what happened in legal terms but an agreement between man and wife can be annulled by a court, if one party can produce evidence that it was an unfair agreement forced on them through the undue influence exercised by the spouse in the marital relationship. It sounds like some fraud was also involved in the form of doctoring agreements after the event. At the time of the original transaction in 2000 he could easily have purchased the land through a company which he would have needed to conduct the business anyway. He was insane to purchase it in the name of a Thai hooker.

Usufructs have some advantages over leases, as they can be life long and for nil consideration which reduces the tax burden to virtually nil, but they are subject to the same risks of being voided between man and wife and being fraudulently doctored as leases.

The real story for the UK tabloids will not be yet another naive farang being robbed by a Thai prostitute he was foolish enough to marry but the social workers getting a trip to Thailand on the taxpayer, if they are really so bold to try such a scam. They are not experts on Thai law and cannot read or speak Thai. What could they possibly achieve by travelling to Thailand?

On the ball as usal Arkady

[LeCharivari]

im obviously totally loopy nearly everything is in my thai wifes name over 100 million baht worth. Who cares if you don't trust your wife don't marry. If she runs off with it all easy come easy go. Has worked for me fine over 15 years now but then i stupid I know. I worry more about her stock market looses at moment and weather she says we can afford next trip skiing althoughI am getting very long in tooth for that. Maybe she married for money but why she stays who knows now she has 90% of it maybe guilt fear of KArma or maybe she just likes living with me even after 15 years and ive promised I cant go more than another 15 years or so now im 85. She said you promised me that when you were 60 and I was only 24 and reckons ill say it if i get to 90+

maybe she just likes living with me even after 15 years ... She said you promised me that when you were 60 ... now im 85

Maybe your age accounts for your maths ....

[tombkk]

I'm sure at one time this sort of scam got so out of hand, especially in Pattaya, that it was decided that if the foreigner could prove the purchase had been made with his/her own money (i.e. bank transfer), that he/she would have to sell the land and get their money back since they are not allowed to own land. I'm not sure what happens when they are married to a thai but I think they are entitled to 50/50 share of both profit/debt.

Really? I think if the foreigner admits that he used a Thai person as a proxy, he is in for some serious jail time. He should not expect to get his money (or 50% of it) back.

[tombkk]

Any farang that puts 22 rai of land in the name of a Thai wife is insane. Do you think she married that old goat for love and companionship ? Thais marry all farang for money...nothing else.

What about farangs marrying Thais for money?

Happens, but not often. If the Thais (or Thai-Chinese, more likely) screen you, the whole family is involved. So, the "just for the money" marriage is not very likely in that scenario.

[tsigane]

Why do people even get surprised by stories like this?

Is it possible that the "legendary" farmer Joe never heard of at least one story like his before getting shafted? Or did he think that this could never happen to him?

We all chose to live in "LOS" despite laws being clearly written with "take whatever you can and give nothing" in mind. I wouldn't blame Thai people for any of the problems farangs encounter here. They don't force any of us to stay or give them money. If you lend money or get into a business with someone who is a well-known crook and he screws you, who is to blame? I'd say, you.

[george]

The goose farmer Joe should have known that a legal Thai wife can cancel a lease on her husband at any given time, whether he is Thai or a Brit. Its the law!

[tombkk]

It's too easy - lease or no lease. Just copy the farangs passport, forge his signature on that (just copy the signature on the passport copy), forge a signature on a Power of Attorney and go cancel the lease. Simple

It happened that way to me - http://www.thaivisa....ty-in-thailand/

Geee...

[hellodolly]

Another case of screwing the farang? I think a high percentage of the Thai population don't know the difference between right and wrong, or simply don't have any morals.

My take on this: foreigners have few rights in Thailand. Keep renting and you can't go far wrong. Don't buy anything you can't put in your name.

Some people just don't get the message and keep coming back for more?

Maybe citing the old saying "dont invest more in Thailand, that you are prepared to walk away from" is approriate at this juncture....

I don't know about that. I would go with do your homework before you invest any where.

Of course here in Thailand it is easy to screw up and then blame the /Thai's.

Seems like there is a never ending line up of farongs willing to believe the worst about all Thai's.

How can a person dealing in those amounts of money have his children in the welfare system.

I personally don't think a heck of a lot for the people willing to defend him with out looking into the facts.

Then again that is what TV is for to give them a place to spout there gibberish.

[andrewdrummond]

I'm not a Lawyer but i think this a far better agreement, much cheaper to set up and it's for your life.

Usufruct Agreements in Thailand

Usufruct contracts are governed by sections 1417 to 1428 of the Commercial and Civil Code of Thailand. A usufruct is a right granted by the owner(s) of the land/house in favor of a usufructuary whereby this person has the right to possess, use and enjoy the benefits of an immovable property (section 1417 CCCT). The usufructuary has the right to manage the property (sect 1414 CCCT). It can be on a piece of land, on a house or on both of them.

I tried to get a usufruct stamp (yes, one exists) from the lands department in Koh Samui. My wife was present and fully supported the stamp as it made our marriage 'equal' and took pressure off her from her mother who was taking a very keen interest in our assets. The land officer (the big boss in the office might I add) refused to issue one to us despite both parties asking and our land title being clear, undisputed chanote in my wifes name. His reasoning was that she shouldn't trust me because I was farang and a usufruct stamp was going against the interests of the country.

Seriously.

What a to**er but then to be expected here, I had no trouble getting one at Sam Roi Yot if you call a 5 hour wait no trouble.

The land officers word is final too so it just means they can do what they want with impunity.

We were told the forst time to wait until the current officer left as he didnt like doing them, as soon as he'd gone it was done.

They move them around every few years to try and stop corruption................yeah bet that works!!

I'm afraid Koh Samui is beyond salvation. Many foreigners stand to lose everything there and many politicians from both sides have the house stand to profit from their demise.

[ES1]

Another case of screwing the farang? I think a high percentage of the Thai population don't know the difference between right and wrong, or simply don't have any morals.

My take on this: foreigners have few rights in Thailand. Keep renting and you can't go far wrong. Don't buy anything you can't put in your name.

Some people just don't get the message and keep coming back for more?

So True! Reducing exposure daily.

Because there are far too many punters in Thailand with more money than brains.

[tombkk]

.. and we find ourselves with the usual associations:

3rd world country ...

scams ...

lawlessness ...

ripoffs ...

lies ...

1st-class beaches...

High quality of life at an affordable price...

12 months of summer per year...

Massages and other bodily experiences...

Best food in the world...

Nice people readily smiling at you...

[Grove]

I don't know much, but what i did,is put down a small deposit for a house and got her to take out a 30 year loan, if i leave she can't pay it, if she gets a new farang, i'll beat the shit out of him, if she leaves, I'll pay her a small monthly allowance, in 30 years ,she can do what she wants hehehehehehe, small investment, i'd say, unfortunately, she loves me and has to suffer for the egoistic ,thieving,ungrateful antics of her fellow species here in Thailand....

Great idea. I'll do it this time as I have lost 8 mil myself for trusting. ( Not making the wrong choices)

[tombkk]

I'm not a Lawyer but i think this a far better agreement, much cheaper to set up and it's for your life.

Usufruct Agreements in Thailand

Usufruct contracts are governed by sections 1417 to 1428 of the Commercial and Civil Code of Thailand. A usufruct is a right granted by the owner(s) of the land/house in favor of a usufructuary whereby this person has the right to possess, use and enjoy the benefits of an immovable property (section 1417 CCCT). The usufructuary has the right to manage the property (sect 1414 CCCT). It can be on a piece of land, on a house or on both of them.

I tried to get a usufruct stamp (yes, one exists) from the lands department in Koh Samui. My wife was present and fully supported the stamp as it made our marriage 'equal' and took pressure off her from her mother who was taking a very keen interest in our assets. The land officer (the big boss in the office might I add) refused to issue one to us despite both parties asking and our land title being clear, undisputed chanote in my wifes name. His reasoning was that she shouldn't trust me because I was farang and a usufruct stamp was going against the interests of the country.

Seriously.

When was that? The officer wouldn't get away with that in Bangkok now, but that was not in Bangkok and probably not now...

[ES1]

I don't know much, but what i did,is put down a small deposit for a house and got her to take out a 30 year loan, if i leave she can't pay it, if she gets a new farang, i'll beat the shit out of him, if she leaves, I'll pay her a small monthly allowance, in 30 years ,she can do what she wants hehehehehehe, small investment, i'd say, unfortunately, she loves me and has to suffer for the egoistic ,thieving,ungrateful antics of her fellow species here in Thailand....

Or.....you can just keep it simple and rent.