Wreath For House Speaker Sparks Red-Shirt Attack

[Roachiebkk]

Two troublemakers were caught making what is tantamount to a death threat, and people are condemning those that stopped the troublemakers?

Look at what happened;

Around noon, two men dressed like students stepped out of a taxi to place a wreath titled "To Speaker Somsak Kiatsuranont who is sitting in the heart of Thaksin - from the Democratic Student Group" in front of the Parliament compound.

1. Dressed like students? Was it to give the impression that they were students so that students would be blamed?

2. Democratic Student Group? The group has not link to this event and it was a false cover set up to mislead the public to give the impression that students were upset.

3. A wreath? This is what is sent for funerals. Does one not understand the message? It was the equivalent of a message saying you are dead.

The fact of the matter is that 2 people concealing their identity and intending to mislead the public were caught in the act. Instead of blaming the people that stopped these 2 conmen, ask who these people were and who sent them. What was uncovered was the M.O. of the saboteurs and agent provocateurs that havebeen at the heart of the political violence in Thailand.

Surely you're just trying to get a rise out of the gang on a quiet Friday morning, your comments are good for a laugh thanks!

[ianf]

Two troublemakers were caught making what is tantamount to a death threat, and people are condemning those that stopped the troublemakers?

Look at what happened;

Around noon, two men dressed like students stepped out of a taxi to place a wreath titled "To Speaker Somsak Kiatsuranont who is sitting in the heart of Thaksin - from the Democratic Student Group" in front of the Parliament compound.

1. Dressed like students? Was it to give the impression that they were students so that students would be blamed?

2. Democratic Student Group? The group has not link to this event and it was a false cover set up to mislead the public to give the impression that students were upset.

3. A wreath? This is what is sent for funerals. Does one not understand the message? It was the equivalent of a message saying you are dead.

The fact of the matter is that 2 people concealing their identity and intending to mislead the public were caught in the act. Instead of blaming the people that stopped these 2 conmen, ask who these people were and who sent them. What was uncovered was the M.O. of the saboteurs and agent provocateurs that havebeen at the heart of the political violence in Thailand.

It could be saying that 'Democracy is Dead' which it is now in this crazy country.

[whybother]

...

It will take some time to calm Red Shirts down. After 5 years of continuous conflict Red Shirts are still in fear that their opposition will resort again to unconstitutional measures to topple the government they have elected, and naturally their paranoia level is still very high. Incidents such as those show the need that all sides have to start toning down, so that there is a chance for moving politics off the streets and back into parliament. Which not just means the Red Shirts, but also the Democrat Party and the military - whose close connections to groups such as Dr. Tul's group and other more darker groups are not exactly productive to a peaceful conflict resolution.

So we can continue to expect people protesting against the government to be beaten down by red shirts then?

[geriatrickid]

GK, how much are the Red Shirts paying you to come to their defense every time they are criticized?

Your clear pro red shirt stance is unbecoming and I find many of your posts in their favor naive.

I shall no longer read your posts.

Calling protesters conmen? <deleted>.

LOL, you won't read my posts. Ok. I am hardly pro red shirt, I just counter the venom spewing biased posts from some TVFers. Is it really naive to point out that a bunch of charlatans were exposed? Instead of going after me, deal with the fakery that was exposed.

[animatic]

Two troublemakers were caught making what is tantamount to a death threat, and people are condemning those that stopped the troublemakers?

Look at what happened;

Around noon, two men dressed like students stepped out of a taxi to place a wreath titled "To Speaker Somsak Kiatsuranont who is sitting in the heart of Thaksin - from the Democratic Student Group" in front of the Parliament compound.

1. Dressed like students? Was it to give the impression that they were students so that students would be blamed?

2. Democratic Student Group? The group has not link to this event and it was a false cover set up to mislead the public to give the impression that students were upset.

3. A wreath? This is what is sent for funerals. Does one not understand the message? It was the equivalent of a message saying you are dead.

The fact of the matter is that 2 people concealing their identity and intending to mislead the public were caught in the act. Instead of blaming the people that stopped these 2 conmen, ask who these people were and who sent them. What was uncovered was the M.O. of the saboteurs and agent provocateurs that havebeen at the heart of the political violence in Thailand.

Bilious hyperbole.

[geriatrickid]

The fact of the matter is that 2 people concealing their identity and intending to mislead the public were caught in the act. Instead of blaming the people that stopped these 2 conmen, ask who these people were and who sent them. What was uncovered was the M.O. of the saboteurs and agent provocateurs that have been at the heart of the political violence in Thailand.

Geriatrickid - That is a very good summation of the red shirt tactics - conceal, mislead and then resort to violence - well done, very succinct.

Lol. Nice try. However, the people caught were attempting to cause a disturbance and they were not redshirts. Why don't you respond to the misrepresentation with the bogus name of a group on the wreath. How about the subtle death threat?

Edited August 26, 2011 by geriatrickid

[whybother]

GK, how much are the Red Shirts paying you to come to their defense every time they are criticized?

Your clear pro red shirt stance is unbecoming and I find many of your posts in their favor naive.

I shall no longer read your posts.

Calling protesters conmen? <deleted>.

LOL, you won't read my posts. Ok. I am hardly pro red shirt, I just counter the venom spewing biased posts from some TVFers. Is it really naive to point out that a bunch of charlatans were exposed? Instead of going after me, deal with the fakery that was exposed.

Charlatans? Fakery?

Two people making a political statement were beaten down by red shirts.

Yay for Red Democracy.

[scorecard]

Two troublemakers were caught making what is tantamount to a death threat, and people are condemning those that stopped the troublemakers?

Look at what happened;

Around noon, two men dressed like students stepped out of a taxi to place a wreath titled "To Speaker Somsak Kiatsuranont who is sitting in the heart of Thaksin - from the Democratic Student Group" in front of the Parliament compound.

1. Dressed like students? Was it to give the impression that they were students so that students would be blamed?

2. Democratic Student Group? The group has not link to this event and it was a false cover set up to mislead the public to give the impression that students were upset.

3. A wreath? This is what is sent for funerals. Does one not understand the message? It was the equivalent of a message saying you are dead.

The fact of the matter is that 2 people concealing their identity and intending to mislead the public were caught in the act. Instead of blaming the people that stopped these 2 conmen, ask who these people were and who sent them. What was uncovered was the M.O. of the saboteurs and agent provocateurs that havebeen at the heart of the political violence in Thailand.

Wow, have you been attending more amsterdam spin classes? You must be his star pupil, well done!

Edited August 26, 2011 by scorecard

[animatic]

This is the first bird of spring signaling the coming return for the warmer climes of the flock returning to roost. Harbinger of things to come.

Remember birds used to be dinosaur raptors, smaller in size now but the same inbred instincts, and which traditionally and gladly ripped anything they desired into shreds and gobbled it down. Don't let the pretty plumage fool you, be afraid.

Edited August 26, 2011 by animatic

[geriatrickid]

Charlatans? Fakery?

Two people making a political statement were beaten down by red shirts.

Yay for Red Democracy.

Yes. There is no Democratic Student Group. Why make a bogus wreath? Why dress up as students and try to pass the wreath off as a "student" protest? Is that honest?

Had these people come on their own and protested, I wouldn't say anything, but this was a clear attempt to attribute a protest to a non existant group of students.

Apparently you have no problem with agent provocateurs attempting to foment civil disorder.

[nicknostitz]

So we can continue to expect people protesting against the government to be beaten down by red shirts then?

I hope not.

I hope that Red Shirt leaders will address the problem and are more successful in finding measures to prevent such incidents in the future. They do try, but as we have seen over the last days - their efforts have not been enough yet.

But i also hope that the Democrat Party will refrain from using agent provocateurs, and will separate their ties to groups whose aims have nothing to do what we generally understand as democratic. I also hope that the military will stop interfering in politics, and also separate their ties to those groups. Basically - i hope that the conflict can be fought out in parliament, and we can get on with our lives, and that i don't need to run around anymore and can work on different topics.

The basic problem though is, that the larger conflict is not over yet.

[scorecard]

Unfortunately the report by the nation was not complete. The incident indeed took place. What though was not reported about here was what happened before the attempted laying of the wreath.

Several witnesses have stated that before the incident the two students have briefly conferred with a waiting Democrat Party MP before they have walked over to the gate to parliament. There is quite a bit of further evidence that this thing may have been a set up by agent provocateurs connected to the Democrat Party to provoke a violent reaction. Police is investigating the incident. Part reason of the over reaction of the Red Shirts was also that the wreath contained a large clock, and people feared that it may have contained a bomb. At the time most police officers were at the Farmers mob not far away from parliament, and could not get there on time to prevent the incident. Also most Red Shirt guards were not there yet.

The Red Shirts that were the last days at parliament were a mostly leaderless group. Over the last 3 days the Red Shirt guards have had a hard time to hold the protesters back. There were already several incidents that could have resulted in violence, if the Red Shirt guards would not have prevented their protesters from over-reacting, such as on the 22nd, when suddenly a small group of dog lovers protested in front of parliament, and ordinary Red Shirts believed that they may have been a group connected to Dr. Tul's group, which came a bit later (and was also protected by Red Shirt guards who kept the protesters on the other side of the road).

This was not an incident of organized violence, but originated from the fear of Red Shirts that the opposition may organize or support an attempt to block parliament again, as happened on Oct. 7, 2008. Unfortunately this paranoia was not just fueled by rumors but also by some local hardcore Red Shirt leaders, who are very disputed in the movement itself, and have been successfully prevented by moderate Red Shirt leaders from staging more stupid actions.

It will take some time to calm Red Shirts down. After 5 years of continuous conflict Red Shirts are still in fear that their opposition will resort again to unconstitutional measures to topple the government they have elected, and naturally their paranoia level is still very high. Incidents such as those show the need that all sides have to start toning down, so that there is a chance for moving politics off the streets and back into parliament. Which not just means the Red Shirts, but also the Democrat Party and the military - whose close connections to groups such as Dr. Tul's group and other more darker groups are not exactly productive to a peaceful conflict resolution.

Another amsterdam convert.

[whybother]

Charlatans? Fakery?

Two people making a political statement were beaten down by red shirts.

Yay for Red Democracy.

Yes. There is no Democratic Student Group. Why make a bogus wreath? Why dress up as students and try to pass the wreath off as a "student" protest? Is that honest?

Had these people come on their own and protested, I wouldn't say anything, but this was a clear attempt to attribute a protest to a non existant group of students.

Apparently you have no problem with agent provocateurs attempting to foment civil disorder.

So, the red shirts are the police now? Are they allowed to go around beating up anyone that they think might be disturbing the peace?

Were these two doing anything illegal anyway?

[animatic]

Protesting by placing a wreath commemorating the ineptitude of a politician is provocative and should be stopped by partisan violence, but taking over the center of Bangkok and attempting violence insurrection is OK since it is legitimate protest.

Double standards abound from those loudest decrying double standards.

[whybother]

So we can continue to expect people protesting against the government to be beaten down by red shirts then?

I hope not.

I hope that Red Shirt leaders will address the problem and are more successful in finding measures to prevent such incidents in the future. They do try, but as we have seen over the last days - their efforts have not been enough yet.

But i also hope that the Democrat Party will refrain from using agent provocateurs, and will separate their ties to groups whose aims have nothing to do what we generally understand as democratic. I also hope that the military will stop interfering in politics, and also separate their ties to those groups. Basically - i hope that the conflict can be fought out in parliament, and we can get on with our lives, and that i don't need to run around anymore and can work on different topics.

The basic problem though is, that the larger conflict is not over yet.

Maybe the PTP should set an example and break ties with their "agent provocateurs" ... you know, the ones that were spreading their cheer with grenades and bombs last year.

[nicknostitz]

Unfortunately the report by the nation was not complete. The incident indeed took place. What though was not reported about here was what happened before the attempted laying of the wreath.

Another amsterdam convert.

Excuse me, but i have been reporting and publishing on the political crisis here years before Amsterdam appeared before the scene.

Do your homework before making snide remarks.

[DP25]

Placing a wreath in front of parliament - Agent provocateurs trying to provoke violence

Fortifying central Bangkok, using your location to bombard surrounding area with grenades, killing solders, and attempting to burn down city - Peaceful democracy sit in

We're through the looking glass now

[nicknostitz]

[

Maybe the PTP should set an example and break ties with their "agent provocateurs" ... you know, the ones that were spreading their cheer with grenades and bombs last year.

I thought that the topic here right now was yesterday's incident, and not last year's mess, which not just includes violence by Red Shirt militants, but numerous protesters killed by the military.

[whybother]

[

Maybe the PTP should set an example and break ties with their "agent provocateurs" ... you know, the ones that were spreading their cheer with grenades and bombs last year.

I thought that the topic here right now was yesterday's incident, and not last year's mess, which not just includes violence by Red Shirt militants, but numerous protesters killed by the military.

The topic that you brought up was about "agent provocateurs".

It seems that one group's "agent provocateurs" laying a wreath, is different that another group's "agent provocateurs" that beat them up, among other things.

[nicknostitz]

[

Maybe the PTP should set an example and break ties with their "agent provocateurs" ... you know, the ones that were spreading their cheer with grenades and bombs last year.

I thought that the topic here right now was yesterday's incident, and not last year's mess, which not just includes violence by Red Shirt militants, but numerous protesters killed by the military.

The topic that you brought up was about "agent provocateurs".

It seems that one group's "agent provocateurs" laying a wreath, is different that another group's "agent provocateurs" that beat them up, among other things.

I think you are a bit confused over the definition of 'Agent Provocateur'.

[Thaddeus]

The fact of the matter is that 2 people concealing their identity and intending to mislead the public were caught in the act. Instead of blaming the people that stopped these 2 conmen, ask who these people were and who sent them. What was uncovered was the M.O. of the saboteurs and agent provocateurs that have been at the heart of the political violence in Thailand.

Geriatrickid - That is a very good summation of the red shirt tactics - conceal, mislead and then resort to violence - well done, very succinct.

Despite all feelings to the contrary I watched "The A Team" movie yesterday.

I'm wondering what A could stand for with regards to this bunch.

[whybother]

I think you are a bit confused over the definition of 'Agent Provocateur'.

RIght. The red shirts at parliament are there off their own bat, and haven't been organised to be there by anyone related to the PTP.

[webfact]

Metropolitan 1 commander says 2 men who tried to place a wreath to protest the House speaker are not students but were hired to do so /TAN_Network

[Pi Sek]

Two troublemakers were caught making what is tantamount to a death threat, and people are condemning those that stopped the troublemakers?

Look at what happened;

Around noon, two men dressed like students stepped out of a taxi to place a wreath titled "To Speaker Somsak Kiatsuranont who is sitting in the heart of Thaksin - from the Democratic Student Group" in front of the Parliament compound.

1. Dressed like students? Was it to give the impression that they were students so that students would be blamed?

2. Democratic Student Group? The group has not link to this event and it was a false cover set up to mislead the public to give the impression that students were upset.

3. A wreath? This is what is sent for funerals. Does one not understand the message? It was the equivalent of a message saying you are dead.

The fact of the matter is that 2 people concealing their identity and intending to mislead the public were caught in the act. Instead of blaming the people that stopped these 2 conmen, ask who these people were and who sent them. What was uncovered was the M.O. of the saboteurs and agent provocateurs that havebeen at the heart of the political violence in Thailand.

That's an interesting spin. After having read many of your more sensible posts, this one surprises me.

I don't know why they were dressed as students (neither do you!), but given they're not students or members of a "Democratic Student Group", perhaps they were wrong to do so. Speculating in their defence, they could have been trying to appear as students to boost their own credibility; or against them, they could have been trying to instigate action from other student groups.

There is more than one use for a wreath in Thailand - including as a "prize" for good actions. I'm surprised you're not aware of this. I haven't seen a photo of the wreath, but I strongly suspect it wasn't a funeral wreath. Maybe someone else could clarify.

And they weren't concealing their indentities, but nice try on that one.

They - and everyone else in the country - have a right to protest in such a way. In fact, some Red Shirts would do well to take a leaf out of their book. Doing what they did was far more democratic than taking over an airport or Bangkok's CBD.

I will add that one or a few Red Shirts actually assaulted the pair - which they say was a minor incident - and it was other Red Shirts intervened, to the credit of themselves and their organisation.

[nottocus]

There is going to be war people. Sooner or later.

Be very afraid.

Get out while you still can. It will be very bloody and the bullets and bombs won't distinguish between Thai and Farang.

[Pi Sek]

Unfortunately the report by the nation was not complete. The incident indeed took place. What though was not reported about here was what happened before the attempted laying of the wreath.

Several witnesses have stated that before the incident the two students have briefly conferred with a waiting Democrat Party MP before they have walked over to the gate to parliament. There is quite a bit of further evidence that this thing may have been a set up by agent provocateurs connected to the Democrat Party to provoke a violent reaction. Police is investigating the incident. Part reason of the over reaction of the Red Shirts was also that the wreath contained a large clock, and people feared that it may have contained a bomb. At the time most police officers were at the Farmers mob not far away from parliament, and could not get there on time to prevent the incident. Also most Red Shirt guards were not there yet.

Thanks for that, genuinely.

[AleG]

Why do Red Shirts run a gauntlet at Government House?

[rixalex]

Several witnesses have stated that before the incident the two students have briefly conferred with a waiting Democrat Party MP before they have walked over to the gate to parliament.

Who are these witnesses?

[OzMick]

Two troublemakers were caught making what is tantamount to a death threat, and people are condemning those that stopped the troublemakers?

Look at what happened;

Around noon, two men dressed like students stepped out of a taxi to place a wreath titled "To Speaker Somsak Kiatsuranont who is sitting in the heart of Thaksin - from the Democratic Student Group" in front of the Parliament compound.

1. Dressed like students? Was it to give the impression that they were students so that students would be blamed?

2. Democratic Student Group? The group has not link to this event and it was a false cover set up to mislead the public to give the impression that students were upset.

3. A wreath? This is what is sent for funerals. Does one not understand the message? It was the equivalent of a message saying you are dead.

The fact of the matter is that 2 people concealing their identity and intending to mislead the public were caught in the act. Instead of blaming the people that stopped these 2 conmen, ask who these people were and who sent them. What was uncovered was the M.O. of the saboteurs and agent provocateurs that havebeen at the heart of the political violence in Thailand.

2 men dressed in white shirts and black trousers (I assume) made a public criticism of the performance of the speaker, lamenting the "Death of democracy." As 1 freely gave his name and age and educational history, how are they concealing their identity, and exactly who are they conning out of what.

The fact is that they were physically assaulted by red shirts, which is exactly "the M.O. of the saboteurs and agent provocateurs that havebeen at the heart of the political violence in Thailand."

Of course, now they should be sued for defamation, the M.O. of a prior PM.

[nicknostitz]

I think you are a bit confused over the definition of 'Agent Provocateur'.

RIght. The red shirts at parliament are there off their own bat, and haven't been organised to be there by anyone related to the PTP.

Actually, yes, the Red Shirts in front of parliament were there on their own, which was quite a bit of a headache indeed for PTP, as the last thing PTP needed was incidents such as the one this topic is about. For PTP, and the main Red Shirt leaders, this thing was a tight walk between controlling the protesters and not pissing off their most fervent supporters.

The problem here in this topic is, that the whole discussion is based on shoddy journalism. The reporters sent their report out without doing the basics of journalism. Which means - get your arse off your comfortable chair in the journos area in the air-conditioned parliament building, go out, speak with the Red Shirts, find witnesses, try to find independent witnesses, find corroboration, speak with police, follow the resulting leads, write down what all have said, and only then send your report off. This all would have taken not longer than about 30 minutes, and wasn't difficult. But it wasn't done - what was done was just echoing what Satit Wongnongtoey said in parliament.