dseawarrior Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Hi, My GF applied for her Thai passport several months ago and she has not yet received it from the Thai authorities. She applied at the Chiang Mai Thai passport office. She was born in the Mae Hong Song area... Several months seems overly long to me and I would like for us to perhaps go abroad over the Xmas holidays... Does anyone know what the typical wait time is? I had another friend who only waited 3 days for her passport (she was from Isaan if that matters...) My current GF (who is very honest...) was born and raised in Mae Hong Song and I was wondering if that makes any difference... One concern that I have is that the local bureaucrats may discriminate against the folks from the "back woods"? I am worried that she is getting the "old jerk-around"... ? Maybe my worries are groundless. She tells me to be patient (dong hai oton na ka?) and to remember that Thais are slow... (I think they are holding out for a bribe from her... Maybe?) What's the usual procedure??? Would it be faster to make the passport application in Bangkok instead of Chiang Mai? Any comments and advice are greatly appreciated! Many thanks! dseawarrior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 A couple of days is all it normally takes to obtain a passport (although they have just changed system and have been backlogged as the new equipment does not seem to work any faster than internet service). She does have a Thai citizen ID card and birth certificate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sierra01 Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 Hi, My GF applied for her Thai passport several months ago and she has not yet received it from the Thai authorities. She applied at the Chiang Mai Thai passport office. She was born in the Mae Hong Song area... Several months seems overly long to me and I would like for us to perhaps go abroad over the Xmas holidays... Does anyone know what the typical wait time is? I had another friend who only waited 3 days for her passport (she was from Isaan if that matters...) My current GF (who is very honest...) was born and raised in Mae Hong Song and I was wondering if that makes any difference... One concern that I have is that the local bureaucrats may discriminate against the folks from the "back woods"? I am worried that she is getting the "old jerk-around"... ? Maybe my worries are groundless. She tells me to be patient (dong hai oton na ka?) and to remember that Thais are slow... (I think they are holding out for a bribe from her... Maybe?) What's the usual procedure??? Would it be faster to make the passport application in Bangkok instead of Chiang Mai? Any comments and advice are greatly appreciated! Many thanks! dseawarrior <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry but I can't offer any advice, I don't know enough about it but my TG (We live in Pakkret, BKK) got her PP from the office on Chaeng Wattana road, a few months ago. She went in just before they closed, it took 10 minutes and she collected it 2 days later. A couple of years ago a friend in Lampang applied in Chiang Mai, it took a couple of hours of running around and waiting, but she received it within 2 weeks. Maybe they've lost her application, can happen I suppose, TIT etc. I've never heard of bribes having to be paid for PP's, I may be wrong on that, so I suggest you chase them up about it. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dseawarrior Posted November 3, 2005 Author Share Posted November 3, 2005 A couple of days is all it normally takes to obtain a passport (although they have just changed system and have been backlogged as the new equipment does not seem to work any faster than internet service). She does have a Thai citizen ID card and birth certificate? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> "She does have a Thai citizen ID card and birth certificate?" I assume that she does. I have been asking her about this over the telephone (I'm in SF). I will be more specific in my questions to her. Both of her parents are deceased (lived in Mae Hong Song) and I was wondering if that might present her with some problems... I will check with her and get more info. I want her to get the passport so that eventually the fiancee visa application is easier... She is a bit from the country and so one step at a time here. Thanks so much for the tips! dseawarrior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 If no birth certificate not having living parents might be a problem as someone would have to be found to verify her birth. There are many hill tribe people without Thai citizenship so that may also be a factor. I would post in the Chiang Mai and/or Chiang Rai branch as you may find people with better information on these kinds of problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dseawarrior Posted November 4, 2005 Author Share Posted November 4, 2005 If no birth certificate not having living parents might be a problem as someone would have to be found to verify her birth. There are many hill tribe people without Thai citizenship so that may also be a factor.I would post in the Chiang Mai and/or Chiang Rai branch as you may find people with better information on these kinds of problems. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks Lopburi3 for all your great information... You seem to be on target... As I have been investigating this, it seems to be a bit of a tangle... My GF was born in Mae Hong Song province in a small ampur called Yuam or Kongyuam? She says that the police in her ampur are very slow and seem to be dragging out the process to possibly get more money (bribes). Although she was born in Thailand, she is a hilltribe person and that seems to be a big part of the complication... The fact that both of her parents are dead also creates a documentation gap for her... As far as I can tell (over the phone), she has ID in Mae Hong Song, but not a national Thai ID card. So, that is part of the passport snafu... She says that she is going to wait and see for a few months (to me, that is VERY long) and she thinks she may get her passport "next year" sometime... She also is very cautious about making extra inquiries because she thinks this will create extra delays for her with the local authorities... She has also said that if the local authorities do not cooperate, then she can make a passport in Burma. My advice is to avoid that route because I want her to have a 100% legitimate passport... But the clock is ticking and I am anxious to start a fiancee visa application for her but there is not much I can do until she has her passport... So, I am rather frustrated and wondering what to do next... This has not (so far) been a pleasant view into the Thai bureaucracy -- especially in how they deal with hilltribe Thai citizens... Any further advice and suggestions is greatly appreciated. Thanks! dseawarrior (SF & Chiang Mai) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sting01 Posted November 5, 2005 Share Posted November 5, 2005 Maybe whatI will say is totally wrong, if that is the case so sorry for the extra burden. For what I know after 4 years+ here in thailand, the hilltribes is a huge problem. Those damned people destroy the forest, cut the teck, do not have thai nationality and worst they refuse to move their damnit villages when some legitimate wood magnate gently ask them. If your GF does not have a thai ID, it can simply mean she is (As so many of the so called Hill tribes people) NOT a thai citizen. I think in 2002/2003 His majesty the Quen herself have to call back the militaries who were kicking the hilltribes ass to take the land where they were (I precise about His Majesty the Queen to avoid further comments about how I am speaking on that subject ... fact is hilltribes peoples are without nationality for the most part, as burmese or cambodian migrants workers). So , in my 2 cents, IF your gf is not legally and fully registred as thai citizen, do not have a thai ID, it seems she will not get a PP. On the other hand, have you ever think to make her coming to US as political refugee? Sound crazy, but it could be the easiest way and the quickest to do it. If she can not get the thai PP because she is not thai citisen, but she is obviously born in thailand from parent obviously also born in thailand, if she legally work and pay taxes in thailand and if obviously she is not citisen of any other country, then with regards to the international laws it's a negatin of her human being to NOT give her the legal document to travel abroad (or something like that, I am not a lawyer but I hope you got the point). I know it sound crazy, but fact and reallity are hille tribe people as any other minority in thailand have a very harsh life, so maybe it's worth a cal to your lawyer and study that case with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dseawarrior Posted November 5, 2005 Author Share Posted November 5, 2005 Maybe whatI will say is totally wrong, if that is the case so sorry for the extra burden.For what I know after 4 years+ here in thailand, the hilltribes is a huge problem. Those damned people destroy the forest, cut the teck, do not have thai nationality and worst they refuse to move their damnit villages when some legitimate wood magnate gently ask them. If your GF does not have a thai ID, it can simply mean she is (As so many of the so called Hill tribes people) NOT a thai citizen. I think in 2002/2003 His majesty the Quen herself have to call back the militaries who were kicking the hilltribes ass to take the land where they were (I precise about His Majesty the Queen to avoid further comments about how I am speaking on that subject ... fact is hilltribes peoples are without nationality for the most part, as burmese or cambodian migrants workers). So , in my 2 cents, IF your gf is not legally and fully registred as thai citizen, do not have a thai ID, it seems she will not get a PP. On the other hand, have you ever think to make her coming to US as political refugee? Sound crazy, but it could be the easiest way and the quickest to do it. If she can not get the thai PP because she is not thai citisen, but she is obviously born in thailand from parent obviously also born in thailand, if she legally work and pay taxes in thailand and if obviously she is not citisen of any other country, then with regards to the international laws it's a negatin of her human being to NOT give her the legal document to travel abroad (or something like that, I am not a lawyer but I hope you got the point). I know it sound crazy, but fact and reallity are hille tribe people as any other minority in thailand have a very harsh life, so maybe it's worth a cal to your lawyer and study that case with him <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Sting01, Thanks for some very good ideas. I think you are spot on for how the Thai government is treating hilltribes and you are probably right about the refugee status might even be a faster route... Does anyone know/ have more information about how to go about that process? Are there any links,,,, or ideas about how to do this strategically? And who (what authorities?) does this all need to be cleared by? What about other solutions? Other suggestions? Is there a way that she can wiggle through other exceptions or negotiations via baht? I don't know what is the easiest/ best way through this, so the more information and ideas the better... Many thanks! dseawarrior (SF & Chiang Mai) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-=angel=- Posted November 5, 2005 Share Posted November 5, 2005 I don't know what is the easiest/ best way through this, so the more information and ideas the better... Many thanks! dseawarrior (SF & Chiang Mai) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> well, I have a friend who doesn't have a thai card nor a thai passport. she is somewhat considered as what sting says not a thai national even thou she was born here. I don't really know how she did it or how her friend did it, but based on her explanation, it goes like this: She did the thai card first. her farang friend know some people who can do this for her in exchange of course for thousands of baht. Only then she got the thai passport, same friend had helped her and of course in exchange again for more thousands of baht. shes now preparing for her US visa. My suggestion is for you to come here and see for yourself how it goes. Coz if you let your gf do this alone, it will really take her a long time. Especially if she doesn't know any people who could help her and the authorities will just look at her and do nothing even if she paid them already. At least, if you're here the authorities would think that she really has the money. Thats only my suggestion, still up to you. P.S. my so called friend's thai card and passport took only a few months to process Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris2155 Posted November 5, 2005 Share Posted November 5, 2005 Hi, My GF applied for her Thai passport several months ago and she has not yet received it from the Thai authorities. She applied at the Chiang Mai Thai passport office. She was born in the Mae Hong Song area... Several months seems overly long to me and I would like for us to perhaps go abroad over the Xmas holidays... Does anyone know what the typical wait time is? I had another friend who only waited 3 days for her passport (she was from Isaan if that matters...) My current GF (who is very honest...) was born and raised in Mae Hong Song and I was wondering if that makes any difference... One concern that I have is that the local bureaucrats may discriminate against the folks from the "back woods"? I am worried that she is getting the "old jerk-around"... ? Maybe my worries are groundless. She tells me to be patient (dong hai oton na ka?) and to remember that Thais are slow... (I think they are holding out for a bribe from her... Maybe?) What's the usual procedure??? Would it be faster to make the passport application in Bangkok instead of Chiang Mai? Any comments and advice are greatly appreciated! Many thanks! dseawarrior <{POST_SNAPBACK}> you should get the passport mailed back to her address within 10 working days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftcross Posted November 5, 2005 Share Posted November 5, 2005 I took an ex to get a passport in Bang Na, Bangkok a few weeks back. We went on the Monday and she had her passport delivered on Thursday. It cost 1,100 baht.....very quick service (although had to queue for three hours on the Monday to get seen) Here's hoping she fks off soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sting01 Posted November 5, 2005 Share Posted November 5, 2005 To precise more my point, the idea is not to really make her apply through your lawyer work (sorry I am french and my english often), but simply to see if there is any laws (US or international) that can cover that case ... If she is not Thai national then what is her status, and if she is Thai national then she must have official document to proove it ... What will happend if Miss Pussadee Songongkrat go to the US embassy and ask for protection and for the refugee status? If your lawyer think it can be good chance to have it, if I was you I will simply go to Bkk with her, at the main office where the passport are done, and simply explain you have only one alternative : or she get a legal passport, and if possible a.s.a.p, or she will go to US embassy and ask for a refugee status. If you can show them she can have it (your lawyer will have to prepare the documents that proove or show that) , and if you can also show them it will be make public (covered by some newpapers), then I think the application will run smoothly. That is the idea, like in chess you do not do it but threaten (menace?) to do it. Whatever good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted November 5, 2005 Share Posted November 5, 2005 I would think long and hard before taking any public action as it is not likely to be productive IMHO. I do not believe the finance visa process is dependent on a passport and expect a travel document could be used - but you are a long way from that point in any case. There is going to be requirements for birth certificate and if that is not available an alternative document. I would suggest you hire an experienced law firm to run the forms as this does not appear to be one that you can DIY without full time attention. I hope that you both are fully committed as this is likely to be a very anxious period for you both and even in the best of cases takes many months. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dseawarrior Posted November 6, 2005 Author Share Posted November 6, 2005 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> well, I have a friend who doesn't have a thai card nor a thai passport. she is somewhat considered as what sting says not a thai national even thou she was born here. I don't really know how she did it or how her friend did it, but based on her explanation, it goes like this: She did the thai card first. her farang friend know some people who can do this for her in exchange of course for thousands of baht. Only then she got the thai passport, same friend had helped her and of course in exchange again for more thousands of baht. shes now preparing for her US visa. My suggestion is for you to come here and see for yourself how it goes. Coz if you let your gf do this alone, it will really take her a long time. Especially if she doesn't know any people who could help her and the authorities will just look at her and do nothing even if she paid them already. At least, if you're here the authorities would think that she really has the money. Thats only my suggestion, still up to you. P.S. my so called friend's thai card and passport took only a few months to process <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Angel, Thanks for the story on what your friend's friend did. Is it possible for your Thai friend or their farang friend to send me a PM on this topic? I would like to know more details on their strategy... BTW, I am quite fluent in basic Thai... This does seem to be a rather tricky do it yourself project... I will be back in Thailand for 2 weeks at Xmas time and I am hoping to be able to help out with this if I can... Any tips on specific immigration attorneys who are clever with this kind of case? Any tips on contacting specific officials at the American Embassy in BKK on this? I tend to agree that it is better to not make a public mess out of this. Thais are very concerned about "losing face" and making the story public might very easily backfire on us... Thanks for the input so far... Other specific suggestions are very much appreciated. For specific names or phone numbers or contacts, feel free to send me a personal message. I am very discrete and I am happy to talk directly with anyone on this. (I will happily pay the phone charges...) Thanks again. Let's try to keep this thread active for a while longer because my guess is that we are not the only ones struggling with these relatively arbitrary and crazy-making rules... Kawp kuhn mak! dseawarrior (SF & Chiang Mai) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratcatcher Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 (edited) dseawarrior, your situation is interesting but not uncommon. I am curious as to how long you have known your "Hilltribe" girlfriend and how much documented time have you spent iwth her in Thailand? You mention that you want to take here abroad. Where is abroad? Cambodia,Malaysia, Singapore? Or Europe,Australia,America etc? When do you plan to be in Thailand next? Your presence here would help somewhat but calmness and politeness pay dividends as most people know. Throwing one's weight around and shouting in this country counts for nought except blank stares from the Thais. I wish you luck in this process but getting the "fiancee "visa for the USA is going to be hardest. Edited November 6, 2005 by ratcatcher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-=angel=- Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 Hi Angel,Thanks for the story on what your friend's friend did. Is it possible for your Thai friend or their farang friend to send me a PM on this topic? I would like to know more details on their strategy... BTW, I am quite fluent in basic Thai... This does seem to be a rather tricky do it yourself project... I will be back in Thailand for 2 weeks at Xmas time and I am hoping to be able to help out with this if I can... Any tips on specific immigration attorneys who are clever with this kind of case? Any tips on contacting specific officials at the American Embassy in BKK on this? I tend to agree that it is better to not make a public mess out of this. Thais are very concerned about "losing face" and making the story public might very easily backfire on us... Thanks for the input so far... Other specific suggestions are very much appreciated. For specific names or phone numbers or contacts, feel free to send me a personal message. I am very discrete and I am happy to talk directly with anyone on this. (I will happily pay the phone charges...) Thanks again. Let's try to keep this thread active for a while longer because my guess is that we are not the only ones struggling with these relatively arbitrary and crazy-making rules... Kawp kuhn mak! dseawarrior (SF & Chiang Mai) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> hi dseawarrior, i really wana help you but aside from that my friend no longer communicate with me right after she receives her thai passport and thai card, we had a misunderstanding. the effect of getting the passport and thai card had gotten into her head. i told you this story so you would know that its possible. anyway, let me see what i can do. leave me your email address and i'll try to contact her and give her your email so you can contact her directly, but please don't expect too much. -=angel=- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudgimelon Posted November 6, 2005 Share Posted November 6, 2005 She says that the police in her ampur are very slow and seem to be dragging out the process to possibly get more money (bribes). Although she was born in Thailand, she is a hilltribe person and that seems to be a big part of the complication... The fact that both of her parents are dead also creates a documentation gap for her... As far as I can tell (over the phone), she has ID in Mae Hong Song, but not a national Thai ID card. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I can't imagine the police trying to get a bribe from a hilltribe girl, after all, how much money could she possibly have? Hardly seems worth the effort on their part. More likely they're just plain lazy and can't be arsed to do their job in a timely fashion when its for "some hill tribe girl" and not a proper Thai national. Documentation is probably a more likely cause for the delay. Has she looked into getting a proper Thai ID card? That would probably speed things up. She says that she is going to wait and see for a few months (to me, that is VERY long) and she thinks she may get her passport "next year" sometime... She also is very cautious about making extra inquiries because she thinks this will create extra delays for her with the local authorities... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> She's probably right about this, and sometimes patience is the only good option. "Stir the waters too much and you just make things muddy" is what I always say. She has also said that if the local authorities do not cooperate, then she can make a passport in Burma. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> BAD IDEA. Don't let her do this. Travelling on a fake passport is only going to lead to eventual problems that are MUCH worse. Where would you rather have your girlfriend? Safely back home in her village or in an INS lockup in Los Angeles? But the clock is ticking and I am anxious to start a fiancee visa application for her but there is not much I can do until she has her passport... So, I am rather frustrated and wondering what to do next... This has not (so far) been a pleasant view into the Thai bureaucracy -- especially in how they deal with hilltribe Thai citizens... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Do you think American Indians had it any easier getting American passports? Until recently they probably had to jump through a lot more hurdles than this girl, so don't think Thai bureaucracy is any different that American bureaucracy. They both suck. And that "clock ticking" thing is all in your head. Relax, chill out and let things take their natural course. If you and this girl are meant to be, then a few months delay is no big deal. Only horny teenagers think the world is going to end if they aren't constantly humping each other on a daily basis. Two of my friends were "bi-coastal" (he was in LA, she was in NYC) for almost 2 years before they finished school and could get properly hitched up. Now granted, they were together for 5 years before they separated like that, so there was a solid foundation for their relationship before they went "long distance" and there was also a certain degree of inevitability (or inertia) to their relationship, so they had a lot more confidence in each other. But you're just going to have to handle the situation as it is: You've got a girlfriend on the back end of the planet and she's going to be stuck there for a while. Accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dseawarrior Posted November 6, 2005 Author Share Posted November 6, 2005 Hi Pudgimelon! Wow. Thank you for such a well-thought reply... I appreciate the advice and I think you are right about being patient and letting things go their course... Plus, no one likes to be rushed -- especially the Thai authorities. I will be there in a few weeks and then I can investigate and see where it all is at ~ Time will tell with all of this. I really appreciate everyone's comments. They have been very helpful. Kawp kuhn jang loei krap! dseawarrior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allane Posted November 9, 2005 Share Posted November 9, 2005 I think that firstly, your GF needs documentary proof of her identity, i.e. a Thai ID card, or whatever might be issued in lieu thereof if she is from a hilltribe area. Is there a local "mayor" ("Kamnan" in Thai), or anyone else in her home area, who might be able to vouch for her identity ? (I personally don't know what sort of guarantor might be acceptable to the Thai government.) All Thai people are formally identified by their connection to their House Registration document ("Tabien Baan") in Thai. Most young adults (or any other adult who does not own the home s/he lives in) are still formally registered as part of their parent's household. Is she listed on anyone's Tabien Baan ? If she is, the actual owner of the house MAY be able to vouch for her. Is she employed ? If she is employed formally/legally, she probably had to provide proof of identity to her employer. This is the first thing that any Thai person has to do when applying for a job. With all due respect to you, I don't think that there is much you can do to help her. She is an adult who should be able to help herself. Alternatively, there must be people on the scene who could do far more than you ever could. As others have said, a "farang" coming over here and attempting to throw his weight around would only be counterproductive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dseawarrior Posted November 9, 2005 Author Share Posted November 9, 2005 I think that firstly, your GF needs documentary proof of her identity, i.e. a Thai ID card, or whatever might be issued in lieu thereof if she is from a hilltribe area. Is there a local "mayor" ("Kamnan" in Thai), or anyone else in her home area, who might be able to vouch for her identity ? (I personally don't know what sort of guarantor might be acceptable to the Thai government.) All Thai people are formally identified by their connection to their House Registration document ("Tabien Baan") in Thai. Most young adults (or any other adult who does not own the home s/he lives in) are still formally registered as part of their parent's household. Is she listed on anyone's Tabien Baan ? If she is, the actual owner of the house MAY be able to vouch for her. Is she employed ? If she is employed formally/legally, she probably had to provide proof of identity to her employer. This is the first thing that any Thai person has to do when applying for a job. With all due respect to you, I don't think that there is much you can do to help her. She is an adult who should be able to help herself. Alternatively, there must be people on the scene who could do far more than you ever could. As others have said, a "farang" coming over here and attempting to throw his weight around would only be counterproductive. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi allane, Thanks for the info... It will work out as far as I know... We will see... Yes, she is an adult and a survivor. She has a relatively low level of formal education, but I am sure she can figure it out with some time and patience... I will be forwarding all of these ideas and comments to her and she will have an English savvy friend help translate... Time will tell. Motto grazie. dseawarrior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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