The Circles

[doggie888888]

My circle excludes heavily tatooed kickboxers whose biceps are larger than their head and who answer to names like Pitbull, Chopper etc.

<------ You called. lol

LOL....is there a Pitbull here too????

[IMA_FARANG]

I don't travel in "circles" because you can't get anywhere that way.

I'm an retired American living here in Bangkok with my Thai wife and family.

I was in the U.S. Army and am a Vietnam vet, but I was an electronics/communications technician ... nothing to do with Seals, Special Forces, or such.

I used to run around the bars and such in Thailand 30 years ago, but as I am now turning 65 years old... well that doesn't happen any more as you may discover when you reach that age.

I worked as a civilian contractor to the U.S. military for almost 35 years before I retired so I have many military friends and still keep contact with them.

I know what the U.S. Navy means when they call a person a CT, and what they do. I had a Top Secret security clearance before I retired.

I call myself a Buddhist and am active on several Buddhist discussion forums.

I have a BA decree in History with a specialization in American History and a minor in Child Psycholgy.

Now, based on that information I just gave you... what "circles" should I be running in?

[IanForbes]

you see more burqas in london than you do Baghdad .

I'll have to take your word for that. I have no intention of ever voluntarily visiting the Middle East, Pakistan, Iraq, or Iran. I don't even want to go to Africa anymore. There is a pretty large Islamic population in Thailand, but I can't recall ever seeing a burqua.

[zzaa09]

you see more burqas in london than you do Baghdad .

Comparative progressivism.

[andrewbkk]

you see more burqas in london than you do Baghdad

Comparative progressivism.

Khun ZZ -- you are certainly on form tonight.

[rgs2001uk]

you see more burqas in london than you do Baghdad .

I'll have to take your word for that. I have no intention of ever voluntarily visiting the Middle East, Pakistan, Iraq, or Iran. I don't even want to go to Africa anymore. There is a pretty large Islamic population in Thailand, but I can't recall ever seeing a burqua.

Need to get yourself up to Pattanakarn soi 20 in Bkk, though since the Nth Korean restaurant closed its not really worth visiting these days.

[StreetCowboy]

Let's face it the vast majority of ex-pats here are losers, wannabees and pretenders. Life's big winners don't come to thailand (including me)

I mentioned circles before of helicopter pilots, retired military and auto and petroleum executives living in Thailand. They all seem happy with nice wives and/or GF's.

I have a facebook page that is linked to a couple of schools I attended, fraternity brothers and business associations. My old friends post pictures of their young trophy wives but not their mia nois. Anyone can have a trophy wife but how many have a trophy mia noi or two.

There are Western women on my facebook page also and they post inspirational messages and the latest airy fairy new health fad.

I don't know what you consider a big winner but I can get a hummer from the maid any morning without going to jail (DSK eat your heart out). Or to Hugh Hefner, no one has jilted me lately and I get more action than Hugh. Did you check out Neil Diamond's new young bimbo? Boy he could do a lot better in Thailand.

If you like curling stay in Canada. If you like women come to Thailand. Each person has to find the things that make their heart go pitter patter. I like Jasmine rice and Issan women. I wouldn't be happy in the South of France.

I couldn;t be bothered watching more than one or two games of the curling European championships, and 'm Scottish. Actually, I don't think we had a good tournament.,..

And I used to be Canadian!

SC

[Riely]

I don't travel in "circles" because you can't get anywhere that way.

I'm an retired American living here in Bangkok with my Thai wife and family.

I was in the U.S. Army and am a Vietnam vet, but I was an electronics/communications technician ... nothing to do with Seals, Special Forces, or such.

I used to run around the bars and such in Thailand 30 years ago, but as I am now turning 65 years old... well that doesn't happen any more as you may discover when you reach that age.

I worked as a civilian contractor to the U.S. military for almost 35 years before I retired so I have many military friends and still keep contact with them.

I know what the U.S. Navy means when they call a person a CT, and what they do. I had a Top Secret security clearance before I retired.

I call myself a Buddhist and am active on several Buddhist discussion forums.

I have a BA decree in History with a specialization in American History and a minor in Child Psycholgy.

Now, based on that information I just gave you... what "circles" should I be running in?

Outstanding.

Well if I had to guess I would say;

How about ones that don't have a bunch of whoremongering pretenders with illusions of grandeur, longing to wife some bar girl who they think is "different"?

How about ones with like minded individuals, whom while may have different experiences than you, are just as real and just as interesting in their own way.

If you do, I bet you won't be like some of these posters, complaining about how fake and BS most foreigners are here, simply because you wouldn't be associating with them.

Allot can be told about a man by the company he keeps.

[Riely]

Helicopter pilot circles. There are a lot of Farang chopper pilots in Thailand especially from Canada.

Oil and gas executive circles. There a lot of

Farang oil and gas executives here.

Automotive circles. There are a lot of Farang auto executives from here.

Consultant engineer circles. There are a lot of Farang engineers here that inspect things because they have certain certifications.

From what I see about 80% have hookers for wives and GF's; albeit absolutely strikingly beautiful ladies. Because the above guys make big bucks.

Military circles. A number of Americans live here who were based here during the war. Very few of them were Rambo types. Most being involved in construction, although they have Thai ties going back 40 years (interesting stories). There are some real hero's here though such as the guys who pulled the Thais out of Laos when the sh** hit the fan. And guys who flew the last prop fighters, and guys who flew all kinds of odd missions in strange aircraft, the variety of aircraft used is mind boggling.

If you didn't know it the mission decisions were made in Washington and then relayed to the air bases in Thailand. This meant that the data was usually old and dangerous. The pilots stationed here had brass balls. I saw B-52's go on the same mission three days in a row using the same flight path. On the third day you knew they weren't coming back (Even the North Vietnamese AA gets the range after three tries). All because some clerk at the pentagon was too lazy to plan a new mission.

The dog handlers are interesting too and a couple are still here. These guys worked with incredibly large German Shepherds in guarding air bases, U-Tapao for example. The VC attacked U-Tapao on a couple of occasions trying to get at the B-52's.

Off shore mercenaries. Most of them are truck drivers from Iraq, they make $120,000 a year.

Are you sure all these guys with big bucks wifed hoes, or dose it just kinda look like that?

I have a diverse group of people I regularly associate with, Thai & expat, all walks of life, business owners to school teachers. The one common bond is that they all enjoy gamming of one sort or another. I can honestly say out of the 30+ of them, I know of only 1, a school teacher, who's wife looks like he got her out of a bar. The rest married at or around their station and have done well.

Out of these Highly paid associates of yours, 80% or so that you said wifed bargirls (girlfriends don't coun't), if they were to go to the shop to by an appliance or a sofa for example, would they be content with the display model that everyone has had their hands(and other various parts) on when they could get a fresh new one for the same price?

I can't see why, maybe sloth, lack of self confidence, or self respect maybe, but why would you buy the rental when the new one is the same price or cheaper?

By the way, has anyone ever seen a Thai Man do this? Has anyone seen an affluent Thai man bring home a hooker from the bar and wife her? Mia noi? You Bet. Straight up wife? Hardly Never.

Why do expats so often settle for less?

[kerryk]

Helicopter pilot circles. There are a lot of Farang chopper pilots in Thailand especially from Canada.

Oil and gas executive circles. There a lot of

Farang oil and gas executives here.

Automotive circles. There are a lot of Farang auto executives from here.

Consultant engineer circles. There are a lot of Farang engineers here that inspect things because they have certain certifications.

From what I see about 80% have hookers for wives and GF's; albeit absolutely strikingly beautiful ladies. Because the above guys make big bucks.

Military circles. A number of Americans live here who were based here during the war. Very few of them were Rambo types. Most being involved in construction, although they have Thai ties going back 40 years (interesting stories). There are some real hero's here though such as the guys who pulled the Thais out of Laos when the sh** hit the fan. And guys who flew the last prop fighters, and guys who flew all kinds of odd missions in strange aircraft, the variety of aircraft used is mind boggling.

If you didn't know it the mission decisions were made in Washington and then relayed to the air bases in Thailand. This meant that the data was usually old and dangerous. The pilots stationed here had brass balls. I saw B-52's go on the same mission three days in a row using the same flight path. On the third day you knew they weren't coming back (Even the North Vietnamese AA gets the range after three tries). All because some clerk at the pentagon was too lazy to plan a new mission.

The dog handlers are interesting too and a couple are still here. These guys worked with incredibly large German Shepherds in guarding air bases, U-Tapao for example. The VC attacked U-Tapao on a couple of occasions trying to get at the B-52's.

Off shore mercenaries. Most of them are truck drivers from Iraq, they make $120,000 a year.

Are you sure all these guys with big bucks wifed hoes, or dose it just kinda look like that?

I have a diverse group of people I regularly associate with, Thai & expat, all walks of life, business owners to school teachers. The one common bond is that they all enjoy gamming of one sort or another. I can honestly say out of the 30+ of them, I know of only 1, a school teacher, who's wife looks like he got her out of a bar. The rest married at or around their station and have done well.

Out of these Highly paid associates of yours, 80% or so that you said wifed bargirls (girlfriends don't coun't), if they were to go to the shop to by an appliance or a sofa for example, would they be content with the display model that everyone has had their hands(and other various parts) on when they could get a fresh new one for the same price?

I can't see why, maybe sloth, lack of self confidence, or self respect maybe, but why would you buy the rental when the new one is the same price or cheaper?

By the way, has anyone ever seen a Thai Man do this? Has anyone seen an affluent Thai man bring home a hooker from the bar and wife her? Mia noi? You Bet. Straight up wife? Hardly Never.

Why do expats so often settle for less?

Who is going to put up with a two year courtship with no sex and family outings on the weekends?

If you are looking for a prime Thai woman in her prime you are looking at a lot of time.

It is rare that a Thai woman really wants to marry a Farang. Not that it doesn't happen but in most cases it is because of some flaw.

Most Farang don't speak fluent Thai.

Most of the Farang don't have a family in Thailand.

This hi so marriage thing is a family thing in the West and in Thailand. Chances are that the families will know each other better than the prospective bride and groom.

I know a couple of news readers on TV, they freelance part time. I guess most people would not call them hookers but in my way of thinking they are hookers. So we may not actually be comparing apples to apples or we may be talking about the same person but with a slightly different classification.

The Thai guys I go out with usually bring their mia nois to our gatherings. I don't meet the wives. You are right Thai guys don't bring hookers home.

Why do Farangs settle for less? I think it is mostly the ease of meeting girls on the INTERNET or in a disco. Second it is language/communication. And third sex. It has taken me three months to introduce strawberry lube into our bedroom. Google will explain lube and certain throat reflexes. If the lady was a hooker it would have taken one night of educational videos.

I don't think it is a matter of self confidence or self respect, more a matter of time, trouble and cultural differences. How many working guys really have the time or inclination to really get involved with a Thai family?

[kurnell]

I used to know a guy who claimed to have been in Panama and would introduce himself to people "27 confirmed kills, including women and children", at networking events, pubs, the office....

There are more freaks in Thailand than the rest of SEA put together

[onionluke]

My circle is more of a magic roundabout ,carousel and I am stuck on it with a host of laughing clowns and if the roundabout speeds up I seem to get older faster .

[kerryk]

I used to know a guy who claimed to have been in Panama and would introduce himself to people "27 confirmed kills, including women and children", at networking events, pubs, the office....

There are more freaks in Thailand than the rest of SEA put together

You need to meet some people outside of ThaiVisa!

[farang000999]

If someone who had never been to Thailand read this website, the way people like KerryK constantly write, they would think that farang were all walking around with Ms. Thailand and the 5 top runner ups on their arms. The reality of the situation is that most of the Thai women you see with farang best shot at being infront of a TV camera is on a crime scene reenactment.

[elgato]

The only circles I travel in are the ones I make myself. It actually wouldn't surprise me if there were a lot of ex-Navy SEALS and military types in Thailand left over from the Vietnam war. That war exposed men to places and things they had never seen before, and the war did not prepare them well for returning to their home lands. War tends to do that to people.

Does that mean in the future there's going to be a lot of expats in Iraq and Afghan.

Doubtful, the beaches aren't as nice and the girls not same-same as Thai girls

[IanForbes]

I'm trying to understand the classification difference between winners and losers. Is it a monitory factor? If so then I know a few wealthy people who are not happy. I also know a few wealthy people who are REAL jerks that nobody really likes, but put on a show of smiles when they are around. I'd call a winner a person who is happy with his life and the situation he is in. I'd also call a person a winner if they are respected and liked by their many friends. Money can't buy happiness, but it can give a person more options and freedom. It's easy enough to pick out the obvious losers, but what does that person think about their own life. If they are happy then that is all that counts.

[Riely]

KerryK- Sounds more like Sloth and lack of self respect. Who really wants to wife someone that's been with hundreds of other men, when with a lil bit of a time investment and family networking you can have a marriage ( in the complete sense Wife & Family) that's worthy of spending your life with. As opposed to just shaking up with a good F(*& while the getting is good.

*Shrug* But I must conseade many men here do. And they use the same excuses you mentioned. Still weak IMHO. And to Answer Ian's question about what makes a looser, I would say money isn't really a major factor, it's quality of life issues like this that really make the difference.

Oh and BTW to say a good Thai woman from a good family must be some how flawed to marry a forginer is border line racist. Sounds like the stuff people used to say about my White mother back in the 70's because she married my Black father.

Rare sure, not that many forginers here compared to Thais, but flawed? No that's just being insulting.

[tailspin]

now let me get this straight.....you prefer lightly tatooed kickboxers who answer to the name Pussycat or Nemo? Tell us about your childhood.......

My circle excludes heavily tatooed kickboxers whose biceps are larger than their head and who answer to names like Pitbull, Chopper etc.

[woktod]

Like Crop-Circles,theres lots of theories and views etc. I for one think Thailand is a great country. Regarding the OPs remarks he/she is spot on. Thailand has some interesting dynamics in play. Now regarding the expat community most of the food groups are represented,and some alot less than others. Its just a shame that volumne wise there seems to be more mass at the lower end in the scale. The corporate professional tier-one group is relatively small compared to Singapore and Hong Kong. The Embassy circles comparable to other regional countries. Institutions-NGOs-honest business people in small-medium business a satisfactory level.

The bottom 2/3rds of people in this triangle seems to gather like a trash-trap for the world. The demagraphics of this grouping have been mentioned and described very well in this OP and many other posts in the forums here.

A large percent of this lower grouping probably have some insecurity issues but have a high respect for those people that they will never or couldnt be(SAS Navy Seals etc)..

Man has always had a fasination with combat and fighting,and wanting to know how he would fare with the huy standing next to him etc. Some actually find out the hard way and others mostly would rather just talk about it and hope like hell they never get tested. They live in hope that the hard man story or navy-seal story etc should and hope get them respect where they never had any,and also keep thet other person(s) in a state of fear or in alot of cases,obiedence. Thailand is full of these wanna-bees,very sad indeed for these people,what went wrong and where to them?

The Author Stephen Leather in one of his books summed this 2/3rds up very well. A must read if you like this topic. I was one of those people that witnessed the the batman incident in bangkok ealier in the year where he taught a valuable lesson to one of these very same people we are talking about,so profesionally done,a simple humiliation in restaruant and earlier in a supermaket. As it turned out later in other forums he falsely promoted himself in the region as a royal marine commando.

Im sure this why many good people in thailand have rather small social circles of friends. Theres not alot to choose from.

[Jeddah Jo]

By the way, has anyone ever seen a Thai Man do this? Has anyone seen an affluent Thai man bring home a hooker from the bar and wife her? Mia noi? You Bet. Straight up wife? Hardly Never.

Why do expats so often settle for less?

Yep seen it, she lives just down the road.

Ex working girl, dropped some sorry arsed farang to marry a merchant from a Thai/Chinese family.

They now have a son, and a very successful business together.

JJ.

[kerryk]

KerryK- Sounds more like Sloth and lack of self respect. Who really wants to wife someone that's been with hundreds of other men, when with a lil bit of a time investment and family networking you can have a marriage ( in the complete sense Wife & Family) that's worthy of spending your life with. As opposed to just shaking up with a good F(*& while the getting is good.

*Shrug* But I must conseade many men here do. And they use the same excuses you mentioned. Still weak IMHO. And to Answer Ian's question about what makes a looser, I would say money isn't really a major factor, it's quality of life issues like this that really make the difference.

Oh and BTW to say a good Thai woman from a good family must be some how flawed to marry a forginer is border line racist. Sounds like the stuff people used to say about my White mother back in the 70's because she married my Black father.

Rare sure, not that many forginers here compared to Thais, but flawed? No that's just being insulting.

Riely you are picking and choosing the issues you address and then coming to a general conclusion. And making me sound a bit bad in the process.

What didn't you address? Family. Family is a big one. If the Thai family does not know your family it is not going to be a proper marriage. There is something wrong with a Thai woman if she does not bring a man home without also bringing home his family. You are entering into a relationship that binds together two families.

Fluent Thai. It ain't going to happen unless you speak fluent Thai.

Given these two conditions I don't think it is a matter of sloth. It is simply hard to accomplish.

And you are making hookers sound too bad. You can get a TV personality or model or movie actress. They take money for sex but I don't think you can classify them as “been with hundreds of men.”

If a woman advertises herself like a tomato on the INTERNET I don't think you can really call that a good catch. Nor do I see much difference between the INTERNET and the ladies you classify as hookers. It's just not done in polite society.

When the difference is instant gratification or a couple of weeks later I find it hard to make a distinction. Two years courtship with both families knowing each other and consenting that is something else.

[Jeddah Jo]

And you are making hookers sound too bad. You can get a TV personality or model or movie actress. They take money for sex but I don't think you can classify them as “been with hundreds of men.”

If a woman advertises herself like a tomato on the INTERNET I don't think you can really call that a good catch. Nor do I see much difference between the INTERNET and the ladies you classify as hookers. It's just not done in polite society.

When the difference is instant gratification or a couple of weeks later I find it hard to make a distinction. Two years courtship with both families knowing each other and consenting that is something else.

I wouldn't sweat it.

You clearly understand how Thai society works whereas people like Riely just choose to make superficial arguments (based on a Western value system) and run down farangs that may be with a perfectly good woman who makes an excellent wife, but has been around the block a bit.

All those hi-so Thai stars sleep around (for money) looking for a wealthy husband to snag. You only need to spend a few minutes reading Thai gossip magazines to understand how Thai society really works.

JJ

[Beetlejuice]

I am in the nudge nudge wink wink say no more Circle ...

Yes, that's more like it.

The farangs that if asked; what do they do in Thailand? They reply; a little bit of this and a little bit of that. They are probably desperate in one way or another; the types that would shag your wife when you're away, steal your money and then empty your trashcans so as to earn more money. These seem to be the majority and are the farangs I try to avoid.

At the other end of the spectrum I really detest those elderly farang couples or elderly farang males with old Thai wife's that look down through their noses at you as if to say; trash like you shouldn't be here, when out and about. They remind me of the sorts that live in the middle class suburbia parts of England, the keeping up appearances kind of people that believe they are above everyone else, but in reality are living on shoestring budgets.

My preferences are for the up front on the level more sociable farangs that seem to be the minority in Thailand.

Edited September 10, 2011 by Beetlejuice

[elgato]

Let's face it the vast majority of ex-pats here are losers, wannabees and pretenders. Life's big winners don't come to thailand (including me)

Speaks volumes your post, especially the part you left out..."Don't come to thailand, but hang out on a forum dedicated to it."

Nice shot!

[Riely]

KerryK- Sounds more like Sloth and lack of self respect. Who really wants to wife someone that's been with hundreds of other men, when with a lil bit of a time investment and family networking you can have a marriage ( in the complete sense Wife & Family) that's worthy of spending your life with. As opposed to just shaking up with a good F(*& while the getting is good.

*Shrug* But I must conseade many men here do. And they use the same excuses you mentioned. Still weak IMHO. And to Answer Ian's question about what makes a looser, I would say money isn't really a major factor, it's quality of life issues like this that really make the difference.

Oh and BTW to say a good Thai woman from a good family must be some how flawed to marry a forginer is border line racist. Sounds like the stuff people used to say about my White mother back in the 70's because she married my Black father.

Rare sure, not that many forginers here compared to Thais, but flawed? No that's just being insulting.

Riely you are picking and choosing the issues you address and then coming to a general conclusion. And making me sound a bit bad in the process.

What didn't you address? Family. Family is a big one. If the Thai family does not know your family it is not going to be a proper marriage. There is something wrong with a Thai woman if she does not bring a man home without also bringing home his family. You are entering into a relationship that binds together two families.

Fluent Thai. It ain't going to happen unless you speak fluent Thai.

Given these two conditions I don't think it is a matter of sloth. It is simply hard to accomplish.

And you are making hookers sound too bad. You can get a TV personality or model or movie actress. They take money for sex but I don't think you can classify them as "been with hundreds of men."

If a woman advertises herself like a tomato on the INTERNET I don't think you can really call that a good catch. Nor do I see much difference between the INTERNET and the ladies you classify as hookers. It's just not done in polite society.

When the difference is instant gratification or a couple of weeks later I find it hard to make a distinction. Two years courtship with both families knowing each other and consenting that is something else.

Whoa, hold on a min;

Family; Why can't a foreigner fly his family in to meet his proposed Thai in-laws? I did. Twice in fact while we were engaged.

Fluent Thai? Whose to say your in-laws don't speak English? 70% of mine do. Heck, her 83yr old grandma spoke great English before she past away and treated me great (I miss her & her yummy green curry )

As far as making hookers sound bad. No thats not my intent, Hookers are great in their place. Like milk is best when kept in the refigierator, taken out cold for your cereal, and (this part is key) PUT BACK WHERE YOU FOUND IT WHEN YOUR DONE USING IT. Not kept out on the table where it quickly spoils. Same thing with whores, great in the bar and the bed, but as a wife? Do you not think you deserve a bit more virtue than that for a life partner? Granted, it all depends on where you set your own bar in life. However I personally couldn't see wifeing some common whore (here or anywhere else) when so many other great women are available too me. And I am NOT rich, not in the best of shape, and not 21yrs old. So that goes back to what I said about sloth and a lack of self confidence/worth

Now about the INTERNET and polite society. Really KerryR?

The internet is a new medium for social interaction that is here to stay. While neither one of us were born in this generation it's influence now is a fact of life. In days gone by parents would often "advertise their kids like tomatoes" to each other in hopes of arranging good marriages for them. All the internet has done is taken the power out of the hands of the parents and empowered the women to choose for them selves giving them greater options to be better matched. How dose this make them the same as a hooker who decides she's gonna make a living blowing every guy she can for 500baht?

Lets be real here, the notion that good women don't look for good men on the internet s just patently false, and that mentality is dieng more and more with each passing day.

And as far as actors and actresses, who mentioned them? I think it's safe to say that they arn't really known in ANY culture for their morality on or off screen.

[kerryk]

KerryK- Sounds more like Sloth and lack of self respect. Who really wants to wife someone that's been with hundreds of other men, when with a lil bit of a time investment and family networking you can have a marriage ( in the complete sense Wife & Family) that's worthy of spending your life with. As opposed to just shaking up with a good F(*& while the getting is good.

*Shrug* But I must conseade many men here do. And they use the same excuses you mentioned. Still weak IMHO. And to Answer Ian's question about what makes a looser, I would say money isn't really a major factor, it's quality of life issues like this that really make the difference.

Oh and BTW to say a good Thai woman from a good family must be some how flawed to marry a forginer is border line racist. Sounds like the stuff people used to say about my White mother back in the 70's because she married my Black father.

Rare sure, not that many forginers here compared to Thais, but flawed? No that's just being insulting.

Riely you are picking and choosing the issues you address and then coming to a general conclusion. And making me sound a bit bad in the process.

What didn't you address? Family. Family is a big one. If the Thai family does not know your family it is not going to be a proper marriage. There is something wrong with a Thai woman if she does not bring a man home without also bringing home his family. You are entering into a relationship that binds together two families.

Fluent Thai. It ain't going to happen unless you speak fluent Thai.

Given these two conditions I don't think it is a matter of sloth. It is simply hard to accomplish.

And you are making hookers sound too bad. You can get a TV personality or model or movie actress. They take money for sex but I don't think you can classify them as "been with hundreds of men."

If a woman advertises herself like a tomato on the INTERNET I don't think you can really call that a good catch. Nor do I see much difference between the INTERNET and the ladies you classify as hookers. It's just not done in polite society.

When the difference is instant gratification or a couple of weeks later I find it hard to make a distinction. Two years courtship with both families knowing each other and consenting that is something else.

Whoa, hold on a min;

Family; Why can't a foreigner fly his family in to meet his proposed Thai in-laws? I did. Twice in fact while we were engaged.

Fluent Thai? Whose to say your in-laws don't speak English? 70% of mine do. Heck, her 83yr old grandma spoke great English before she past away and treated me great (I miss her & her yummy green curry )

As far as making hookers sound bad. No thats not my intent, Hookers are great in their place. Like milk is best when kept in the refigierator, taken out cold for your cereal, and (this part is key) PUT BACK WHERE YOU FOUND IT WHEN YOUR DONE USING IT. Not kept out on the table where it quickly spoils. Same thing with whores, great in the bar and the bed, but as a wife? Do you not think you deserve a bit more virtue than that for a life partner? Granted, it all depends on where you set your own bar in life. However I personally couldn't see wifeing some common whore (here or anywhere else) when so many other great women are available too me. And I am NOT rich, not in the best of shape, and not 21yrs old. So that goes back to what I said about sloth and a lack of self confidence/worth

Now about the INTERNET and polite society. Really KerryR?

The internet is a new medium for social interaction that is here to stay. While neither one of us were born in this generation it's influence now is a fact of life. In days gone by parents would often "advertise their kids like tomatoes" to each other in hopes of arranging good marriages for them. All the internet has done is taken the power out of the hands of the parents and empowered the women to choose for them selves giving them greater options to be better matched. How dose this make them the same as a hooker who decides she's gonna make a living blowing every guy she can for 500baht?

Lets be real here, the notion that good women don't look for good men on the internet s just patently false, and that mentality is dieng more and more with each passing day.

And as far as actors and actresses, who mentioned them? I think it's safe to say that they arn't really known in ANY culture for their morality on or off screen.

First of all I want to say that is a great post and an eloquent rebuttal. Everyone could learn from reading your well written and thought out response.

I don't agree with it but that should not take away from the gentlemanly and scholarly way you responded.

What I meant about in laws and the marriage between families not only individuals is more specific to Thailand than the West. Financing and joint business ventures are still done in many cases by family money in Thailand as opposed to banks. And that is why the family connection is so important. Very few Thai families have Western business links. I know a couple and am in fact involved with one but that is certainly not the majority. The Thai family I am involved with also speaks English back to granny but again that is, as is yours is quite a rarity. The Thai gentleman who wants to be my father in law also has a condo in Hawaii and has had for 20 years but I think he is not typical.

The hooker part is I think easier to defend. It is not difficult to meet a hooker with less men under her belt than the average uni girl. Having a good working relationship with management of said places can get you first crack at the new stock. University holidays or right after the rice harvest in Surin are good times to shop. The ladies don't really want to work in a bar when they first get there. It takes a couple of weeks before they realize how much fun it is. I realize everyone is different but for me I don't expect to get much mileage requesting virtue in a partner. What is good for the goose and all that. It is not that I set my bar low but after all fair is fair.

Now about the INTERNET. My first marriage was arranged by the parents between acts at the opera in adjoining box seats. I realize that is a bit old fashioned.

Lets be fair here. The notion that good women don't start out looking for good men on the INTERNET is I guess old fashioned and probably patently false.

Lets also be realistic. Selling tomatoes is still selling tomatoes. Given enough contact and intimate information I can buy a tomato even if the original purpose was not to sell the tomato. I've done it too many times to doubt my ability to buy tomatoes.

The original purpose may have been to display the tomato in 104 beautiful full color photographs along with academic and romantic statistics and color coordinated pictures of cats and dogs and cute little sayings but however you market it, package it, or spin it, selling is still selling.

Perhaps we are getting to caught up in trying to define a good woman. I think good women are available on the INTERNET and in a bar. Good women are everywhere. The difference between a woman who has experienced 10 little ones or two big ones in my mind is slight.

I am not lazy and I don't have low self esteem. I do since I stopped working have a lot of time and patience. I am not driven by sexual hunger to make a quick choice. I live here. I can keep a flirtation going for 6 months or a year. Sooner or later the opportunity arises. Some may say I have a low opinion of good girls; others may say I have a high opinion of bad girls. The truth is somewhere in between.

Someone said a long time ago that Liz Taylor when young had the face of an angel and the morals of a trucker. I keep looking.

[Jeddah Jo]

Do you not think you deserve a bit more virtue than that for a life partner? Granted, it all depends on where you set your own bar in life. However I personally couldn't see wifeing some common whore (here or anywhere else) when so many other great women are available too me. And I am NOT rich, not in the best of shape, and not 21yrs old. So that goes back to what I said about sloth and a lack of self confidence/worth

And as far as actors and actresses, who mentioned them? I think it's safe to say that they arn't really known in ANY culture for their morality on or off screen.

I think you are in danger of descending in to the realms of self-delusion and hypocrisy when you use words like 'virtue' in Thailand.

Also if everyone knows that actors and actresses are not known for their morality why are they such sought after brides by the rich and famous and why is there this constant pretence in the Thai media that they are all angels, never have sex partners and are virgins until the day they marry? At which stage the mansions and multi-million baht sin sots start coming out.

Yes they portray virtuousness but the reality is completely different. So what is the end result, you are left with a 'virtuous' girl on your arm who is actually more of a hypocrite and more of a whore then many working girls who you appear to look down on.

JJ.

[JurgenG]

My "circle" is asian middle class people. I say asian because I'm living between Thailand, Hong Kong and China. Most of my close friends are of mix culture, alphabet people, ABC, CBC, EBC ...(American Born Chinese, Canadian BC, England BC). I hate dealing with foreigners (westerners) even if I'm one myself. These people think the rules don't apply to them, they always believe they are entitled to special privileges. They always talk about "we" and "them", and of course I'm one of "we" when actually my feelings are exactly the opposite.

Actually most of my close friends are of mix culture because we share the same problem, we are comfortable with both cultures, Asian and Western, but we don't really belong to any.

[iono]

I have no circle of friends, I may go to a restaurant once and a while for a meal and some conversation with another expat, but for me that is enough...I'm a bit of a loner and to busy doing things I want to do with my hooker wife and kids...

[zzaa09]

I hate dealing with foreigners (westerners) even if I'm one myself. These people think the rules don't apply to them, they always believe they are entitled to special privileges. They always talk about "we" and "them", and of course I'm one of "we" when actually my feelings are exactly the opposite.

Interesting take, Jurgen.

Yet, all to common a trait amongst the foreign paradigm.