Suvarnabhumi Airport Rail Link - A Completely Inconvenient Means Of Travel

[Bakseedaa]

But we all know whos wife bought this land cheap and sold it to MRT.....

[Estrada]

Also the "17 minute Express Train" is a bit lame... I tried it at Phaya Thai the other day... Thinking it would be faster...

Paid the premium price entered and was immediately directed to a makeshift seating area to sit down and WAIT (as the train only leaves every 30 minutes) - So I sat there and watched TWO regular trains come and go before my express train even arrived

From 1st June the train frequency is now every 20 minutes from Phyathai to Swampy for the "Direct Express" with a return fare valid 2 weeks of only 150Baht.

I live on Srinakarin rd near Seacon Square and in the days of the horrendous traffic jams, I used to travel to work from the old SRT Hua Mark Station to Makkasan. I could get to work faster than my friends, who were working for Siemens, could get out of the multistory carpark in Charn Issara Tower Klongtan! I thought the Airport link local line would be faster than using the BTS from Onnuch, however, I have timed it and it is slightly faster to go to Onnuch BTS and then to Asoke than to go to Makkasan Airport Link to get to Asoke.

It is only 20-25 minutes by taxi to the Airport from Seacon Square but the airport link slow line has a train only every 15minutes so there is no advantage to me.

Originally I recommended to the Government that Makkasan Airport Link Station be built above the existing Makkasan SRT STation. Hua lumpong station should be closed and Makkasan should become the main railway station in Bangkok. I recommended that Morchit bus station also be moved to Makkasan. In this way, passengers from abroad wishing to travel by bus up country or local train can change at Makkasan. Also at the SRT Makkasan Station there is easy access to the Hotels which are nearby.

Edited September 11, 2011 by Estrada

[tw25rw]

Needs to run further into town, eg Hualamphong to be closer to where the more price sensitive tourists stay. Interchangeing with the BTS is a non-starter for those with luggage, so it needs to link up with somewhere with better taxi access.

That Makkasan area seems inconvenient now, but the rail link is the kind of thing that will encourage development. Give it 10 years and there will be hotels etc there. Same with Ramkhamhaeng and others. But for now it feels like the middle of nowhere.

[SPIKECM]

I took the express line for the first time to Makkasan last week. I usually take it to payathai and connect to the BTS but as I had a lot of luggage I thought I'd go to makkasan and get a taxi. To my horror, my wife (who wanted to get a taxi in the first place) and I found that there were no taxis at makkasan terminus. Unbelievable. We had to lug our suitcases on to a path jumping between pavements and the road. We got to the end of the road, taxis were few and far between and the first ones we stopped had no interest in going to sukkumvit area. Eventually, after about 15 minutes in the dark and in the rain, we got one to go by meter.

It is dumbfounding that there are no taxis there at the city terminus for the airport link. The only reason I see for this is that Makkasan's locality makes meter taxis hard to make money. I would be interested to know any other reason.

I don't disagree with the article, but perhaps the expectations are too high?

I took the ARL from Makassan last weekend to travel to the airport to pick up a friend, then took a taxi home. Time was similar to take the MRT to the ARL station, wait for a train, then take the train to the airport. The difference was the lack of the white knuckle, 150 km/hr drive down the freeway, and at about half the cost.

I found the same experience on the return trip- a pleasant train experience from the airport after a harrowing (in a downpour) taxi ride complete with one very near accident on the way to the airport.

For me, it's more about safety than the cost or time. Even if I had to take a taxi to the ARL station to lug any baggage, it's still safer, less expensive and more comfortable than most local taxi's I've ridden in.

That being said, they could improve access and I hope that's in the cards. But I could easily see them opening a "street market" on the first floor of the Makassan station that would jam pack the entire floor and outdoor entry area and make it impossible to get through it with luggage- not to mention the scam artists, thieves and pickpockets that always accompany tourist crowds.... I'd hate to see "too much success" spoil a good thing.

[SantiSuk]

Was the article paid for by the TAXI mafia? Makes me wonder.

I'd take the Airport Rai Link anytime. Hate it when I have to argue with taxi drivers who try to scam me. You don't get that with the ARL.

No traffic jams on the ARL. Once the train starts moving from Makasan Station - you are almost sure that you will get to Swampy in less than 1/2 hour. With a taxi, you never know when you'll get there. Just adds to a travellers anxiety - which I don't need.

So you can diss the ARL all you want but it's still a great way of travelling between Swampy and downtown Bkk.

If your not carrying big bags of course...

Public transport (other than taxis and rail links with air terminals for people who want to check in far too early) is not generally suitable for people with really big bags - anywhere in the world. A normal complement of a 25kg roller and a cabin bag works fine for me on the Airport Link. Horses for courses.

[LindsayBKK]

I don't have to listen to taxi driver country music and drivers complaining or chatting on mobile to friends while driving. ไม่มีมารยาท

I see lots of people using the rail link so how can they not be making money.

Every 15-20min is fine.

So does this mean that no one on the train is chatting and no one is talking on a mobile?

Train is a little bit larger than a taxi Ding Dong.

Never been in a taxi when he is driving at 140kmph and talking on his cellphone, you should try it sometime.

Edited September 12, 2011 by LindsayBKK

[emilyb]

I'm confused by the people defending the ARL's choices, because if you look at it, it's clear that all the things they've done wrong were incredibly small things in the grand scheme. Take a look at the massive building they built for Makkasan for example - surely 20% of that duty free white elephant could have been sacrificed to pay for more elevators/escalators, a dedicated connection to the MRT decent signage and so on. These are just tiny things, but they add up.

As has been said before in these threads, it's actually impressive how much money has been invested in mass transit in Bangkok and how much has been accomplished, it's just depressing that, like many political things in Thailand, it ends up getting screwed up at the last mile somehow. The bureaucratic infighting and resulting refusal to think systemically for the good of the city results in all these petty, stupid little issues like waiting to open new stations for years because of partisan bickering, having to have 3 cards to use a single transit system, adjoining MRT/BTS stations with two different names, MRT/Airport Link connections that don't connect to anything, BTS/Airport Link connections where (until very recently) you couldn't take the airport link itself and so on. That's what's frustrating. It's so much hard work that really accomplishes a lot and when it's time to drive the golden spike in they start fighting over the hammer, someone steals the spike and runs off with it and everyone just stands around pointing fingers. It's all clearly a massive net bonus to the city, but it can't be done without a bunch of Thai bigwigs using it to stand around peeing on one another's legs. I feel bad for a lot of the Thai engineers, planners and workers who bring this stuff to fruition, because they doubtless know what the right thing to do is, but are constrained by idiotic bureaucrats.

Edited September 12, 2011 by emilyb

[ES1]

Airport Link is fine, maybe not perfect but in my opinion much better than dealing with the taxi mafia.

Why the negative comments about the Taxis? Have you really ever felt like you were dealing with the mafia in going to or from the airport to downtown? At about $6 to get from downtown to the airport, I'm confused how this is a negative thing .... especially considering they use natural gas, are generally clean, relatively new vehicles and air conditioned .... and it is completely up to the passenger to choose if they want to go with a particular tax driver or vehicle. Yes, "the airport" charges 50 baht for using a taxi on arrival and if you choose to take the highways you will encounter tolls but again, not sure how this would in anyway make one feel like they are dealing with the mafia. I know a number of taxi drivers in Bangkok and not one is part of the mafia but are simply hard working people who pay a lot of fees to be able to operate/drive a taxi.

Good for you. Enjoy sitting in traffic in your nice clean air con taxi.

Thankfully, people who find a rail link more convenient now have that option.

[ES1]

I took the express line for the first time to Makkasan last week. I usually take it to payathai and connect to the BTS but as I had a lot of luggage I thought I'd go to makkasan and get a taxi. To my horror, my wife (who wanted to get a taxi in the first place) and I found that there were no taxis at makkasan terminus. Unbelievable. We had to lug our suitcases on to a path jumping between pavements and the road. We got to the end of the road, taxis were few and far between and the first ones we stopped had no interest in going to sukkumvit area. Eventually, after about 15 minutes in the dark and in the rain, we got one to go by meter.

It is dumbfounding that there are no taxis there at the city terminus for the airport link. The only reason I see for this is that Makkasan's locality makes meter taxis hard to make money. I would be interested to know any other reason.

I don't disagree with the article, but perhaps the expectations are too high?

I took the ARL from Makassan last weekend to travel to the airport to pick up a friend, then took a taxi home. Time was similar to take the MRT to the ARL station, wait for a train, then take the train to the airport. The difference was the lack of the white knuckle, 150 km/hr drive down the freeway, and at about half the cost.

I found the same experience on the return trip- a pleasant train experience from the airport after a harrowing (in a downpour) taxi ride complete with one very near accident on the way to the airport.

For me, it's more about safety than the cost or time. Even if I had to take a taxi to the ARL station to lug any baggage, it's still safer, less expensive and more comfortable than most local taxi's I've ridden in.

That being said, they could improve access and I hope that's in the cards. But I could easily see them opening a "street market" on the first floor of the Makassan station that would jam pack the entire floor and outdoor entry area and make it impossible to get through it with luggage- not to mention the scam artists, thieves and pickpockets that always accompany tourist crowds.... I'd hate to see "too much success" spoil a good thing.

Complete nonsense.

If you go out the front entrance to the vehicle arrival ramp area there is a guy there with a radio who calls up taxis for waiting people coming out of the station. There were 6 of us waiting and within 5 minutes 6 taxis showed up. So maybe you took a wrong turn somewhere.

Edited September 13, 2011 by ES1

[Nisa]

Airport Link is fine, maybe not perfect but in my opinion much better than dealing with the taxi mafia.

Why the negative comments about the Taxis? Have you really ever felt like you were dealing with the mafia in going to or from the airport to downtown? At about $6 to get from downtown to the airport, I'm confused how this is a negative thing .... especially considering they use natural gas, are generally clean, relatively new vehicles and air conditioned .... and it is completely up to the passenger to choose if they want to go with a particular tax driver or vehicle. Yes, "the airport" charges 50 baht for using a taxi on arrival and if you choose to take the highways you will encounter tolls but again, not sure how this would in anyway make one feel like they are dealing with the mafia. I know a number of taxi drivers in Bangkok and not one is part of the mafia but are simply hard working people who pay a lot of fees to be able to operate/drive a taxi.

Good for you. Enjoy sitting in traffic in your nice clean air con taxi.

Thankfully, people who find a rail link more convenient now have that option.

????????

Did I say something negative about the Airport Link in the above or in any way say it was better than a taxi or even anything about my preference for one over the other? I really thought I was asking a poster to clarify his opinion to not wanting to deal with what he/she perceived as the mafia.

[SPIKECM]

"complete nonsense"??? what kind of contribution is that?? I did go to that exact place you talk about. There was only one destination as they even had a guy directing me there from the elevator. When I got there, another guy who was standing in place of your radio guy told me to go to the road to get a taxi. There were another two lots waiting for taxis on the road when I got there. One Thai couple and one farang. All complete nonsense of course though.

I took the express line for the first time to Makkasan last week. I usually take it to payathai and connect to the BTS but as I had a lot of luggage I thought I'd go to makkasan and get a taxi. To my horror, my wife (who wanted to get a taxi in the first place) and I found that there were no taxis at makkasan terminus. Unbelievable. We had to lug our suitcases on to a path jumping between pavements and the road. We got to the end of the road, taxis were few and far between and the first ones we stopped had no interest in going to sukkumvit area. Eventually, after about 15 minutes in the dark and in the rain, we got one to go by meter.

It is dumbfounding that there are no taxis there at the city terminus for the airport link. The only reason I see for this is that Makkasan's locality makes meter taxis hard to make money. I would be interested to know any other reason.

I don't disagree with the article, but perhaps the expectations are too high?

I took the ARL from Makassan last weekend to travel to the airport to pick up a friend, then took a taxi home. Time was similar to take the MRT to the ARL station, wait for a train, then take the train to the airport. The difference was the lack of the white knuckle, 150 km/hr drive down the freeway, and at about half the cost.

I found the same experience on the return trip- a pleasant train experience from the airport after a harrowing (in a downpour) taxi ride complete with one very near accident on the way to the airport.

For me, it's more about safety than the cost or time. Even if I had to take a taxi to the ARL station to lug any baggage, it's still safer, less expensive and more comfortable than most local taxi's I've ridden in.

That being said, they could improve access and I hope that's in the cards. But I could easily see them opening a "street market" on the first floor of the Makassan station that would jam pack the entire floor and outdoor entry area and make it impossible to get through it with luggage- not to mention the scam artists, thieves and pickpockets that always accompany tourist crowds.... I'd hate to see "too much success" spoil a good thing.

Complete nonsense.

If you go out the front entrance to the vehicle arrival ramp area there is a guy there with a radio who calls up taxis for waiting people coming out of the station. There were 6 of us waiting and within 5 minutes 6 taxis showed up. So maybe you took a wrong turn somewhere.

Edited September 19, 2011 by SPIKECM

[Yaaklenmai]

Inconvenient? Only for tourists who do not know that if they take the ARL, they'll have to connect to the other system *BTS* which also lack "down escalators" anyway. I assume that people will start screaming at BTS as soon as ARL finishes installing extra escalators.

To be honest, in any major tourist destinations in Europe, I keep seeing people dragging their big bags down the stair case in subway stations. Inconvenience = savings for those who do not want to pay for taxi.

And from my understanding, the Blue Flag fairs are to increase the riderships at underutilized stations like Baan Tap Chang at off-peak hours. Nothing wrong with that is it?

Perhaps it's better to hand over the management to private entities since their main concern would be to make it convenient for everyone to use (more customers = more profits)

Nothing new then!

The "ferang" attitude to none profitability is either to close the loss making enterprise (not an option in this case) or to increase the attraction for users/customers.

The Thai approach is, normally, to put up prices to meet profit targets!

I can use, as an example, my experience with Thai Airways who were enjoying an average cabin occupancy of only 20% and then proceeded to increase the price of a return ticket (economy) to Heathrow, from 80,000THB to 100,000 THB, for the reasons stated.

That compared, at the same time (late 2009), to Emirates charging 30,000THB (albeit with a stop in Dubai) and SriLankan Airlines charging 20,000THB for the same (changing planes in Columbo).

Still, wonderful Thailand!

The senior personnel at the public companies seem to believe that they live in a bubble, which is unaffected by the rest of the world - Encouraged, probably, by what the Thai educational system teaches them (or not, as the case may be)!

Edited September 19, 2011 by Yaaklenmai

[planr]

Nothing new then!

The "ferang" attitude to none profitability is either to close the loss making enterprise (not an option in this case) or to increase the attraction for users/customers.

The Thai approach is, normally, to put up prices to meet profit targets!

I can use, as an example, my experience with Thai Airways who were enjoying an average cabin occupancy of only 20% and then proceeded to increase the price of a return ticket (economy) to Heathrow, from 80,000THB to 100,000 THB, for the reasons stated.

That compared, at the same time (late 2009), to Emirates charging 30,000THB (albeit with a stop in Dubai) and SriLankan Airlines charging 20,000THB for the same (changing planes in Columbo).

Still, wonderful Thailand!

The senior personnel at the public companies seem to believe that they live in a bubble, which is unaffected by the rest of the world - Encouraged, probably, by what the Thai educational system teaches them (or not, as the case may be)!

The inaccuracy of such a large number of posts on TV never ceases to amaze me. You may have been on one TG flight where you estimated that the load factor was 20%, which may be true, however, the lowest monthly load factor TG has had since 2007 was 56.7% in May 2010, during the major red/yellow conflict. I have attached a chart using data publicly available from TG's investor relations website illustrating monthly load factors since 2007. At an annual level during the same period, load factors have ranged between 73% and 79%.

I find it very difficult to believe that TG was charging 80,000 - 100,000 baht for a return from Bangkok to Heathrow and back UNLESS you were looking at flights very close to Christmas time AND looking to book at the last minute, in which case you probably found only Y and B fares available. For instance, right now if you wanted to book from BKK-LHR and back on Dec 19 and 28 respectively, the least expensive economy fares are about 45,000 baht, while the 2nd most expensive (B-class fare) is 70,000. These prices are 15-20% more than going the other way (LHR-BKK), but that is normal if you are part of a captive market, to which Bangkok is for TG. Most airlines throughout the world, including domestic airlines in large markets like the USA charge a premium to fly "out" of their hub airports as opposed to "into" them, usually on the order of 10-15% in my experience.

And I would be curious to know how many senior personnel you know at Thai public companies, let alone TG. I know a few, including some at TG. Your suggestion is wholly inaccurate to say the least.

In any case, whatever TG's load factors are will have little impact on the usage of the ARL, including the Express Line. As discussed earlier in this thread, the accessibility of Makkasan (and Phaya Thai to a lesser degree) coupled with the cost of riding versus taking a taxi are the two major impediments to the growth of the Express Line... and absolutely nothing to do with TG's revenue management practices.

[emilyb]

Rode the 06:20 Airport Link train from Makkasan a few mornings ago. It was I and a Thai gentleman alone on the entire train. Rode it back to Phaya Thai Monday afternoon and while the car nearest the escalator was full, the rest of the train was empty. That's my 5th or 6th time on the Express Line (City Line I've used many times and it's often uncomfortably packed).

Great service at all points, as there were more staff around than riders and the cabin was comfortably roomy what with very few people riding the train. Hopefully they'll figure out a way to get ridership up on the express and to make it go somewhere that people who use an express line actually go (e.g. convention centers, downtown hotels, intersections of major transit options, etc) instead of dropping them at a dead end station in a traffic black hole or taking them all the way to the Northwest side of town. I did the back of the napkin math and with the current THB 90 fare I saved about 50 Baht on the trip back because of the 50 Baht taxi surcharge, but the time differential wasn't any better and the money involved is too small to make a difference either way. I just hate sitting in traffic, I like mass transit and I try to support it. I doubt most business travelers looking at the options (and a map) will choose the express until it goes directly to anywhere most business travelers might want to go.

[mic6ard]

I have to agree with most of the comment that it's inconvenient for those with luggage. However, witha simple backpack and heading into phayathai, it's great.

The regular line, is very much used by local as a mean of getting into the city center, so a bonus there. But the trains really lack seating, or even cushion and are really outdated.

The express is convenient as I mention above, if you just want to go straight to phayathai with minimal luggage. The problem is the schedule, every 30 minute??? This friday I actually took the regular service instead of having to wait 25 minutes for the express, guess what I arrived at phayathai at the same time as the express train . Make sense????

Let's see, waiting 25 minutes for a train (no waiting area seating), or getting on a regular after 10 minutes wait. AND arriving at the SAME time. What's express about that?

A good suggestion from a friend of mine is to get the express to only stop at those stations with connection to other transports, BTS,etc. AND run the schedule so there is actually some time advantage to using the express line. IMO the extra cost is the extra space you need at the station, standing there looking for something to do. What a SCAM