Abhisit Slams Thai Govt On Issues About Thaksin

[JurgenG]

^

The witch hunt has been widely documented, made the first page of manager a couple of time.

For the other items, I guess the fact you are unusually speechless means you have nothing to object ?

More precisely, you can't object anything

I'd just love to start with the so-called "witch hunt" on Facebook.

Share your "widely documented" material with the forum, please. I consider myself fairly informed and this is the first I hear of its mention.

For other items, they can come in due time, but I'd like to hear about this Facebook situation that somehow ranks in the Top #5 important events.

Of all the cockamamie going-on's in Thailand over the past 5 years and you consider worthy enough to be mentioned in a short paragraph summation of the time just seems strange given what I've so far learned of it so far, after looking it up.

Dealing with people who think differently

By Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation

In a sign of increasing online witch-hunting against its political opponents, ASTV-Manager daily newspaper, the mouthpiece of the yellow-shirt People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), on Monday produced the picture and name of the latest man charged under lese majeste laws.

The newspaper quoted an ultra-royalist social-sanction group (known as the SS) as declaring victoriously: "Another one is down."

The same SS posted much information about the man, a new graduate from Kasetsart University, on its website. The name, photo and details are there to assist, or even encourage, ultra-royalists to send threatening e-mail or make hate phone calls to the man and his family.

http://www.nationmul...y-30162390.html

It's just the most recent event, many other occurred earlier.

Don't flattered yourself Buchholz, you're not fairly informed, you're just fairly brainwashed.

But I can help you

Which point would you like to discuss next ?

_

Edited September 16, 2011 by JurgenG

[rubl]

Dealing with people who think differently

By Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation

In a sign of increasing online witch-hunting against its political opponents, ASTV-Manager daily newspaper, the mouthpiece of the yellow-shirt People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), on Monday produced the picture and name of the latest man charged under lese majeste laws.

The newspaper quoted an ultra-royalist social-sanction group (known as the SS) as declaring victoriously: "Another one is down."

The same SS posted much information about the man, a new graduate from Kasetsart University, on its website. The name, photo and details are there to assist, or even encourage, ultra-royalists to send threatening e-mail or make hate phone calls to the man and his family.

http://www.nationmul...y-30162390.html

It's just the most recent event, many other occurred earlier.

Don't flattered yourself Buchholz, you're not fairly informed, you're just fairly brainwashed.

But I can help you

Which point would you like to discuss next ?

_

No offence, but if you look at some of the 2009 - 2010 editions of red-shirt magazines and tabloids, you will not only see the same type of 'hype', but even worse. I forgot which magazine had an article on the 'October Revolution' with remarks as to 'what needs to be done needs to be done' quoting Lenin.

Edited September 16, 2011 by rubl

[JurgenG]

You realize what this is about ?

The same SS posted much information about the man. The name, photo and details are there to assist, or even encourage, ultra-royalists to send threatening e-mail or make hate phone calls to the man and his family."

Earlier people were encourage to publish the same information about their colleagues they thought were supporting Thaksin.

People were talking about Germany in the 30's. Yes, we are right there. Even the name "SS" !If you ask me, yes, the actions of the reds was justified !

Edited September 17, 2011 by metisdead
Font size etc. reset, please refrain from posting in that attitude.

[rubl]

You realize what this is about ?

The same SS posted much information about the man. The name, photo and details are there to assist, or even encourage, ultra-royalists to send threatening e-mail or make hate phone calls to the man and his family."

Earlier people were encourage to publish the same information about their colleagues they thought were supporting Thaksin.

People were talking about Germany in the 30's. Yes, we are right there. Even the name "SS" !

If you ask me, yes, the actions of the reds was justified !

You use an article from August 2011 to justify UDD actions in black Songkhram 2009, March - May 2011 with murder, grenade attacks and hate speeches ? Furthermore you refer to Germany 1930's with Hitler democratically being choosen abolishing democratic principles as he even said he would ?

"Reds actions justified". Welcome to the enlightened world of JurgenG

Edited September 17, 2011 by metisdead

[Buchholz]

It's just the most recent event, many other occurred earlier.

Don't flattered yourself Buchholz, you're not fairly informed, you're just fairly brainwashed.

I'm not one to normally flatter myself, but I do thank you for confirming that I am fairly well informed as your reference was one of the articles I found when looking around. I was hoping you might produce something I hadn't seen in what you consider noteworthy enough to be included in your Top #5 of recent events. That you didn't, reveals someone seemingly grasping at straws to find something, anything, negative. Your "it cost the guy his job" is laughable when its considered against all the other much more serious events over the past 5 years.

The incident was preceded, by a number of years, by the original, "let's post details of people and intimidate them."

Unsurprisingly, the tactic originated and was initiated from the violent Red Shirt camp of the divide years earlier.

We shouldn't also forget that the EC hurriedly submitted the case after there names and addresses and phone numbers were read out on the red stage along with those of family members and that the speakers then said they couldn't guarantee the safety of them. This was while the reds sat blocking Bangkok, intimidating 7-11 workers and had been seen in possession of firearms. Not to mention the police were actively assisting the reds and the army doing nothing with the government holed up in an army base.

and reiterated here:

Of course the charges against the Dems are not as bad as the electoral fraud charges against TRT and PTP with clear cut evidence. Only a moron or red operative wouldn't see that. And of course the 1cm billboard issue which the EC were pressured into recommending disbandment over while having their addresses read out on the red stage as the armed reds marauded at will unhindered by those meant to uphold law and order and being told they would not be safe if they didn't disband the Dems is utterly ludicrous to anyone who isn't a moron or red operative. I also hope the red leaders who made the threats and gave out the addresses have been charged. That is not democracy and anyone who uses such tactics is no advocate of democracy

also unsurprisingly, in your very own referenced link is the counter action by the Red side.

some red shirts asked one of this writer's friends whether she knew the details of the university vice rector who filed lese majeste charges against his own student, so they could launch a counter-witch-hunt against the academic.

But I can help you

Please do by either posting more about this or document some of the other "many other occurred earlier" instances of Facebook intimidation.

.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Buchholz

[JurgenG]

In response to the two post above (Rubl and Buchholz) :

Justifying the action of the yellows by pretending they just reply to the reds is absolutely ridiculous. The PAD was founded BEFORE the coup, the UDD AFTER the coup. Furthermore the terme "red shirt", if my memory serves me well, only appears after 2008 (the coup was in 2006). You can't reply to something that doen't yet exist. I know you like to play with relativity but even Einstein can't help you here.

And we arrive to the main problem. Your two posts actually justify the action of a group that calls itself "SS", and I think the name is no unfortunate coincidence. And here we have a big problem.

So, stop beating around the bush, do you or do you not condemn the action of this "SS" group ?

_

Edited September 16, 2011 by JurgenG

[Buchholz]

So no other references or other documentation of that for which you mentioned earlier.

Thanks, anyway.

btw, the Red Shirts have been known by a variety of alphabet soup acronyms...

For example, in early 2007, they were calling themselves PTV.

Recognize any of these Red Shirts?

Three of the five are now calling themselves Members of Parliament.

1- No broadcast license

2- No accredited reporters

3- No satellite slot.

4- No domain name, but a website hosted with Bravehost

See it here.

The Real Player content takes a while to load but you'll be treated to a propaganda video, soundrack by Carabao.

'' Yeah, we found free web hosting! ''

I see they' re not supporting Thai IT businesses...

Mailing Address:

Bravenet

P.O. Box 1722,

Parksville, BC,

Canada, V9P 2H5

Edited September 16, 2011 by Buchholz

[JurgenG]

^

We are obviously not the brightest light on the Christmas tree.

For your arguments to hold water, that the action of the yellows was a reply to those of the reds, you have to show that the reds were here before the yellows. We have already established that the yellows appeared in late 2005 - early 2006.

2007 is AFTER 2006

Still haven't made up your mind regarding the SS ? You understand that you clearly establish yourself as a ultra right wing nationalist. Therefore your arguments as a defender of democracy will lost a lot of their credibility ...

[Buchholz]

For your arguments to hold water, that the action of the yellows was a reply to those of the reds, you have to show that the reds were here before the yellows. We have already established that the yellows appeared in late 2005 - early 2006.

2007 is AFTER 2006

I'm not making any argument on which group was formed first. You quoted the Facebook incident as one of your Top 5 events. I asked for additional information. You supplied a single article detailing a single event.

I asked for any additional information. You supplied none.

btw, for precedence purposes, the specific action of a group has nothing to do with the formation date of the group. It has ALL to do with the date that specific action occurred. In this instance, you object to the specific action taken by one group. I showed that specific action occurred by a different group years earlier. The founding date of either group is completely immaterial if we are discussing the specific action that you yourself first mentioned.

I only supplied the information on the formation date of the Red Shirt group not to say it was formed earlier than another group, but simply because you seemed completely unaware of its existence long before you said it was formed.

Lastly, if it's possible, can you please tone down your inflammatory name-calling (which I've removed from your post).

Thanks.

Edited September 17, 2011 by Buchholz

[rixalex]

Just want to make my point clear.

Yes, before Sondhi, a lot of people didn't like Thaksin, like a lot of people don't like Blair, Bush, Sakorzy, Obama ... But they were no hate, at least not at the average voter level. I remember the last election before the coup, my gf made a mistake and voted for Thaksin (her representative in our area). Later she was scolded by her friend but she was laughing at her mistake. When we went to vote on July 3, nobody was laughing.

The turning point is Sondhi with the PAD and his Manager news site. Everyday the hate was going up a notch. I live with a democrat, I really saw the evolution on a daily basis, I know what I'm talking about.

But they were no hate, at least not at the average voter level.

In the spirit of making your point clear, could you expand a little on precisely what the term "average voter level" means, and how it is you know what this group, whoever they are, were thinking.

^ Sorry, can't reply this one, it's getting too personal.

There is nothing whatsoever personal about asking you to explain the meaning of your peculiar term "average voter level", and to suggest so is frankly ridiculous when considering some the personal barbs included in your recent posts.

[rubl]

In response to the two post above (Rubl and Buchholz) :

...

So, stop beating around the bush, do you or do you not condemn the action of this "SS" group ?

So do you still maintain that the red actions in 2009 / 2010 were justified because of what yellow shirts did in 2008? And the yellow reacted on red-shirt actions in 2007. And red-shirts reacted on the coup bringing down their dear Leader Thaksin. And the yellow shirt started in January 2006 when the very day a new Telecom law was effective the Shinawatra clan sold their stake of Shinawatra Holdings without paying taxes. That's when even 'normal' people started protesting and yellow was mostly worn on Mondays.

All actions of extremists are to be condemned, don't single out a group you just don't happen to like. Mind you compared with the UDD methods the PAD seems out of their league. Government House was a mess, but they even helped clean up the airport before leaving. Have you seen the burning buses, tyres, gastruck in April 2009, the bamboo wall April/May 2010, walked past Saladaeng and wondered when next a grenade will be lobbed?

Anyway this OP is about "Abhisit slams Thai Govt on issues about Thaksin'. With Cambodian government spokesman Mr Phay Siphan having said 'Thaksin would make two speeches, to the Asean conference and a confidential speech on economy to a government forum' you may really wonder what this private person and 'eternal friend' of PM Hun Sen is telling the Cambodians of what he knows on Thai standpoints and 'Thaksin things, Pheu Thai acts' suggests the worst type scenario. Luckily our smiling PM Yingluck knows nothing of this, not even that her brother could be in Cambodia

Edited September 17, 2011 by rubl

[SkyHigh]

Everytime Mr Abhisit open his mouth there must be a word 'Thaksin' in its context.

He better shut up about any Thaksin stuff.

At this point, the Gov can push amnesty for Thaksin and things can get ugly. May be start seeking a revenge ?

If the Gov holds majority in parliament, then it is legal to do so.

Sound familiar ? When you - Mr Abhisit - became a PM, you said so. Smell any self-serving double standards ????

[Buchholz]

Sound familiar ?

Indeed, it does. It's sounds a lot like the threats and intimidations of Thaksin, circa 2003.

.

[rubl]

Everytime Mr Abhisit open his mouth there must be a word 'Thaksin' in its context.

He better shut up about any Thaksin stuff.

At this point, the Gov can push amnesty for Thaksin and things can get ugly. May be start seeking a revenge ?

If the Gov holds majority in parliament, then it is legal to do so.

Sound familiar ? When you - Mr Abhisit - became a PM, you said so. Smell any self-serving double standards ????

A majority in parliament and having formed a government is not a 'free pass' to do whatever one likes. This country has a constitution and laws which need to be followed. Mind you TiT, so maybe not completely to the last letter of the law.

As for revenge, k. Thaksin has gone on record a few times that he would not seek revenge, just reconciliation. Don't tell me you question this

[gemini81]

Everytime Mr Abhisit open his mouth there must be a word 'Thaksin' in its context.

He better shut up about any Thaksin stuff.

At this point, the Gov can push amnesty for Thaksin and things can get ugly. May be start seeking a revenge ?

If the Gov holds majority in parliament, then it is legal to do so.

Sound familiar ? When you - Mr Abhisit - became a PM, you said so. Smell any self-serving double standards ????

sounds like Jatuporn or any other silly and crazy member of the red rouge. Abhisit is challenging them the way they challenged him. Only he had a cleaner record, had less corruption, and more experience. He's just pointing out all of the holes and flaws.

Inevitably, more bloodshed will erupt due to the public's dissatisfaction, and sooner or later the thaksin rouge will fall before they can become a north korean type of dynasty.

[SkyHigh]

dam_n,,

Losers from July 3 will never learn.

Interpols ??? Terrorist charges ???

rofl !

People(many) dont see Thaksin as a criminal as you people here think he is - full stop.

[rubl]

dam_n,,

Losers from July 3 will never learn.

Interpols ??? Terrorist charges ???

rofl !

People(many) dont see Thaksin as a criminal as you people here think he is - full stop.

Dam_n! The winners of the July 3rd election haven't learned a bloody thing. Rather than trying to find ways to implement their campaign promises they keep on hammering on 'get Thaksin back'. K. Thaksin advising the Cambodian government on Thai policies, red-shirts and UDD MPs cheering.

Some people don't see k. Thaksin as a criminal, true. Some people see k. Thaksin as a fugitive criminal, also true. Both Bonny/Clyde and Robin Hood had their following, also true. Relevant for the laws of this country? A Dept. PM saying 'I will bring k. Thaksin back' and 'we can't do anything when he's in Cambodia'.

Interesting views

[sulasno]

have you consider the possibilities that Thaksin was not given a fair trial ?

[rubl]

have you consider the possibilities that Thaksin was not given a fair trial ?

Have you considered the possibility that just saying 'I did nothing wrong' may not convince a court? The same for saying 'politically motivated'. Jumping bail after promising to come back is not so nice either. As Prime Minister k. Thaksin should not have allowed his wife to buy a piece of land which was sold by a (semi)government instituation. Both he and she should have shown restrained. It's not as if a few hundred million profit was something the couple desperately needed. In 2000 or 2001 k. Thaksin even had the audacity to say "I'm rich enough not to be corrupt".

You may argue that there are lots of others who should also be brought before a court, but a PM has to be judged by higher standards.

Edited September 17, 2011 by rubl

[sulasno]

have you look into the case from a legal point of view ?

[rubl]

have you look into the case from a legal point of view ?

No, but others did:

"Lawyers Council of Thailand’s Announcement on

The Case of a Convicted by Thai Court of Justice Who Fled and Distributed a Statement with Distorted Facts

Lawyers Council of Thailand’s Announcement

October 31, 2008

The distribution of a statement through various media both domestic and foreign by Pol. Lt. Col. Thaksin Shinawatra who has been convicted by the Supreme Court’s Criminal Division for Holders of Political Positions for a two-year imprisonment, to inform both domestic and foreign mass media, shows a crucial intent to provide false information to the audiences such that “for why the court convicted him was because he was a politician who was so successful as to be a Prime Minister for two terms“.

The Lawyers Council considers such acts as an intention to commit a court contempt and a disrespect to the Thai judiciary system despite of his best opportunity to defend the case. The Lawyers Council, threfore, release this announcement to condemn such acts as follows."

Complete article here:

http://pad.vfly.net/en/519/counter-reply-to-thaksins-latest-message-for-international-media/

Edited September 17, 2011 by rubl

[sulasno]

555

has it ever occur to you that the judgement is/was flawed ?

[sulasno]

I see that you cannot accept when the truth is presented ?

[Buchholz]

have you look into the case from a legal point of view ?

555

has it ever occur to you that the judgement is/was flawed ?

Funny how two questions... without declaration... without definition... somehow... miraculously... gets morphed into...

I see that you cannot accept when the truth is presented ?

a presentation of "the truth"

[sulasno]

and what's your point ?

[Buchholz]

and what's your point ?

Thought it was obvious.

Where's your presentation of the truth?

.

[sulasno]

look into the relationship between FIDF, BoT and the PM's Office

[Buchholz]

look into the relationship between FIDF, BoT and the PM's Office

That's a pretty brief presentation of the truth.

[Siam Simon]

cut///You may argue that there are lots of others who should also be brought before a court, but a PM has to be judged by higher standards.

Any leading figure in a country has to be judged by the highest standards. Where does the judgement start? I'm happy for Thaksin to be put on the line, but only after all the transgressors before him. Otherwise, it's not a clean slate scenario, just a settling political scores one.

[SkyHigh]

Some people don't see k. Thaksin as a criminal, true. Some people see k. Thaksin as a fugitive criminal, also true. Both Bonny/Clyde and Robin Hood had their following, also true. Relevant for the laws of this country? A Dept. PM saying 'I will bring k. Thaksin back' and 'we can't do anything when he's in Cambodia'.

Interesting views

You think the Gov should not bring Thaksin back ? You think Thaksin issue is not a priority ?

To hell with respect the rule of law. Stop threatening there will be bloodshed, chaos, coup. Let the dam_n things begins.

Bring back Thaksin, start a new trial or amnesty or whatever ! I dont want to hear single word about abusing power once again since when he's charged everyone seem to appreciate 'the rule of law' !!!!!

Now. If Thaksin gets free and there will be such protest.

Shoot anyone violate the law ! How about that. Snipe right at the center of the head may be a good start.

Peaceful protest ??? Throw some flamed bottles and let's roll !@!

The only way to deal with Thaksin haters is a full load hard suppression. They are so full of themself thinking they are better than anyoneelse and know how to run the country.

These people must have had lessons before this country can move on.

Let them know the consequence of their holy motto - 'Bring down Thaksin at all costs'

Edited September 18, 2011 by SkyHigh