DSI Urges Police To Provide Forensic Proof On Red-Shirt Protest Victims

[webfact]

DSI urges police to provide forensic proof

By The Nation

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung said yesterday that the Department of Special Investigation would ask the Metropolitan Police Bureau to conduct forensic tests on 13 victims killed in connection with the crackdown on last year's red-shirt protests.

"The DSI has no mandate to conduct forensic checks, therefore it is obliged to send the cases back to the police for additional evidence to explain the cause of death," he said.

The 13 victims of last year's clashes include a Japanese cameraman who was shot dead on April 10 at Rajdamnoen Avenue, six who were found dead at Wat Pathum Wanaram after the Ratchaprasong rally was brought to an end on May 19, and the killing of an Italian journalist. The DSI initially took the investigation of the cases off the hands of the police bureau.

Then the probe into the deaths hit a snag due to suspicion that security officials might be to blame for the killings, so the DSI asked the Metropolitan Police for additional evidence.

The police, however, rejected the request on grounds that they had no jurisdiction to meddle in DSI's work.

Yesterday, the DSI decided once again to ask for additional evidence on grounds that the police have the mandate to furnish forensic reports.

Separately, the Truth for Reconciliation Commission yesterday released a second report outlining its work progress and offering seven recommendations in connection with last year's violence.

"I sincerely hope that the government will accept and implement the recommendations in order to bring about reconciliation," commission chairman Kanit na Nakorn said.

The recommendations are:

_ The government should reduce conflicts by dispensing justice equally, even if state officials are found involved;

_ The government should ensure that all sides exercise self-restraint to foster a climate of reconciliation;

_ The legal proceedings in connection with lese majeste charges, emergency-rule violations and cyberspace offences should spell out clear indictments before suspects are apprehended and should encourage a fair bail review, and the suspects should be detained in a separate facility from the regular remand prison;

_ The victims should be given compensation that is beyond existing rules and regulations, and the payments should cover incidents that occurred in 2009 and 2010 as well as before the coup of September 19, 2006;

_ Those who underwent unfair legal treatment in relation to street protests should be compensated;

_ Cases related to lese majeste and the Computer Act have been rising at an alarming rate, though all sides should stop involving the monarchy for political gains. The public prosecutors should review each case based on the merit of upholding the monarchy instead of letting personal sentiment cloud judgement;

_ The government should sponsor a public forum for all sides to exchange views to raise awareness that political conflicts are normal for a society in transition.

-- The Nation 2011-09-17

[ralphlsasser]

The DSI has no mandate to conduct forensic checks? Do they mean the DSI has to have a mandate to find out what and how the people were killed? Amazing (crazy) Thailand.

Edited September 17, 2011 by ralphlsasser

[OzMick]

"The government should sponsor a public forum for all sides to exchange views to raise awareness that political conflicts are normal for a society in transition."

Modify to add - When attending a peaceful protest carrying AK-47s and similar, RPGs, M-79s and similar, is not normal or acceptable. Inciting hatred and violence is a serious crime, as is aiding, abetting and sheltering those committing acts of violence.

Also add Advisory Note - When wishing to protest a political decision or action (such as a coup) it is better to do so as soon as possible. Protesting several years after the event and several changes of government can lead to the impression of insincerity, deceit and ulterior motives in your stated reasons and goals of protest. Spontaneous protest is much more credible, but this credibility is rapidly eroded when financial incentives for attendance are offered and/or accepted.

[phiphidon]

Yesterday, the DSI decided once again to ask for additional evidence on grounds that the police have the mandate to furnish forensic reports.

Which seems strange seeing that DSI Chief Tharit has already gone on record to state that the Reuters cameraman, Hiro Muramoto was not shot by security forces as an earlier report (http://www.nationmul...--30145106.html) had stated.

DSI Director-General Tharit Pengdith said the bullet came from an AK-47, which did not match the weapon used by soldiers in the street in Bangkok that day.

"Now we know for sure the bullet that killed him was a Russian-made AK-47, which we do not have for military use," Tharit told Reuters http://www.vnnnews.n...uters-cameraman

To be able to state this as a fact an autopsy must have been carried out and forensic reports given to the DSI, otherwise how would they be able to ascertain the difference between the damage an M16 round makes as opposed to an AK47 round. Unless its guesswork?

Mr Tharit said the DSI assigned former police forensic science chief Pol Lt-Gen Amporn Jarujinda, an expert on gunshot wounds who now serves as a DSI adviser, to further examine the wounds found on the 13 bodies including that of Mr Muramoto.........Gen Amporn said after he had reviewed a report on the cameraman's autopsy that the bullet wound found on Muramoto was larger than other bodies.

The size of the wound, the track of bullet fragments and its power indicated that he was probably killed by a shot from AK-47 assault rifle. Apart from an AK-47, a similar wound could have occured from a NATO gun or an SKS semi-automatic rifle, he said, adding that the shot hit at his left chest and pierced his body and exited at his right shoulder. http://www.mcot.net/...age/175308.html

And how did he come to this conclusion seeing that he was not present at the autopsy, having been abroad at the time? He looked at photos of the qutopsy. http://asiancorrespo...nese-cameraman/

So, an autopsy was carried out on at least one of the victims and judging from the sources above forensic evidence was provided to the DSI at least in the form of photographs. This forensic evidence seems to have been enough for the DSI to categorically state that the security forces were not responsible for at least one of the 13 deaths, a statement that the government push to this day, for obvious reasons.

However, if what Darit is saying is true, and they have not had access to forensic evidence it appears as though the "proof" that the security forces did not shoot Muramoto (and others) is wrong and the original leaked report could be correct. Oops.

[ToffeEFCpower]

If they post a million baht reward, the killers will soon be found

[nicknostitz]

Strange.

In the case i am a witness off, which is one of these thirteen, forensic investigations have been finished over a year ago. An autopsy has been performed, the bullet that killed the victim, Channarong Ponsrila, has been bagged. Several videos of the incident, shot from different positions, have been handed over to the DSI (some show soldiers as well). The crime scene has been photographed, including additional bullet holes showing the trajectory of the bullets.

After having been questioned several times by both DSI and police, i haven't heard anything from them anymore in almost a year. Now i have to read this - that the case is not even at the prosecution, but still in the initial stages of the justice process.

Interesting is, in comparison, that many cases against the Red Shirts have already led to convictions, are in the process of being tried, or have court dates set.

[tragickingdom]

If there is no possibility to send Suthep and Mark Abhisit to the Hague for crimes against humanity, there is at least now a possibility to send Suthep to jail for incompetence. Only someone who has to hide a lot takes a case away from the police before forensic tests have been carried out and send the case to the DSI. Given the fact that Suthep oversaw the DSI and DSI published their conclusions without having seen any evidence, the victims family should su him out of his ill gained fortune. Maybe his head will finally grow back to normal proportions after that.

[rubl]

...

Interesting is, in comparison, that many cases against the Red Shirts have already led to convictions, are in the process of being tried, or have court dates set.

This last sentence spoils what you wrote before. You compare cases without describing them or justifying why they can be compared. As such this sentence suggest guilt on some organisation's part without proper justification. 'many cases' suggest just that, MANY cases. You refer to a dozen or so convictions, like those 'town hall torchers' ? I thought most 'obviously' guilty were still walking around or are on a private trip to greet their hero k. Thaksin ?

From the very beginning the police and the DSI have been pussyfooting around the 91 deaths and the how, what, where. Maybe the DSI instructed by the government, the police protecting their red-shirts. The army shot a few, UDD militants shot a few. Reluctance to admit or plain denial on all sides. With all the violence, taunting, provocation, hate-speeches one can only wonder that only 91 people died during this six week battle.

[nicknostitz]

This last sentence spoils what you wrote before.

And strangely enough, your diatribe does not mention at all what i "wrote before".

Stop obfuscating, and stay with the topic, please.

[webfact]

Troops 'involved' in cameraman death: Thai agency

BANGKOK, September 17, 2011 (AFP) - A Thai agency Saturday said troops were "involved" in the deaths of a Japanese cameraman and 12 civilians during an army crackdown on rallies in Bangkok last year and called for new inquiries.

In a significant change in stance since saying in February that soldiers were not to blame for the death of Hiroyuki Muramoto, of the Reuters news agency, the Department of Special Investigation (DSI) said it had sent the case back to police to probe.

"The DSI believes (the deaths) occurred during the officials' operation, so we believe that they were involved with those killed," agency chief Tarit Pengdith told AFP, insisting this had been the position all along.

More than 90 people -- mostly civilians -- died in the unrest in April and May 2010 and both military and anti-government "Red Shirt" protesters have accused each other of using live ammunition.

This is the first DSI statement on the high profile case since a new government allied to the Red Shirts came to power last month.

Investigators initially concluded that Muramoto might have been killed by the military during clashes between troops and protesters, but early this year said police evidence suggested the bullet was from an AK-47 assault rifle or similar firearm, which are not used by the Thai military.

In February the Bangkok Post reported claims that the DSI head had been visited by a senior army figure to complain about the initial department finding that soldiers could be behind the deaths.

But Tarit has denied that the army or government interfered in the probe.

On Saturday, Tarit said police would send the cases of the 13 civilians to prosecutors, who would then take them to court for another inquiry.

Reuters welcomed the move.

"Muramoto-san's family and Reuters colleagues deserve to know how this tragedy occurred and who was behind it," Stephen Adler, editor-in-chief of Reuters News, said in a statement.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-09-17

[rubl]

"The DSI believes (the deaths) occurred during the officials' operation, so we believe that they were involved with those killed," agency chief Tarit Pengdith told AFP, insisting this had been the position all along.

I hope k. Tarrit didn't say it like this. The colonel and staff also died during the officials' operation.

Anyway most likely army personel killed some protesters and maybe the Japanese reporter running around. On the other hand UDD militants killed some army personel and killed / wounded more later on in their 'grenade lobbing' season. Both sides guilty. The army had permission of a legal government to shoot (but not indiscriminately), the 'peaceful protesters' had no such right. With Robert A. c.s. saying that on April 10th the army fired thousands of rounds into the packed mass of protesters, it's a miracle not more died. Still even a single one is one too many

Edited September 17, 2011 by rubl

[londonthai]

Anyway most likely army personel killed some protesters and maybe the Japanese reporter running around. On the other hand UDD militants killed some army personel and killed / wounded more later on in their 'grenade lobbing' season. ... With Robert A. c.s. saying that on April 10th the army fired thousands of rounds into the packed mass of protesters, it's a miracle not more died.

this case is about the "13 victims of last year's clashes" and not about the rest of 79 killed.

as to 10th april, there were some 16 dead, with hundreds hospitalised in bangkok (probably mostly wounded by firearms) and some later have died. Some of the lightly injured protesters might have travelled outside bangkok for the treatment, as they were scared to be arrested close to the protest site.

some of those round were rubber bullets, they mostly injure and to be taken out in a surgical operation, but can kill as well

Edited September 17, 2011 by londonthai

[rubl]

Anyway most likely army personel killed some protesters and maybe the Japanese reporter running around. On the other hand UDD militants killed some army personel and killed / wounded more later on in their 'grenade lobbing' season. ... With Robert A. c.s. saying that on April 10th the army fired thousands of rounds into the packed mass of protesters, it's a miracle not more died.

this case is about the "13 victims of last year's clashes" and not about the rest of 79 killed.

as to 10th april, there were some 16 dead, with hundreds hospitalised in bangkok (probably mostly wounded by firearms) and some later have died. Some of the lightly injured protesters might have travelled outside bangkok for the treatment, as they were scared to be arrested close to the protest site.

some of those round were rubber bullets, they mostly injure and to be taken out in a surgical operation, but can kill as well

Those thirteen mentioned in the OP relate to April 10th, 2010. That very day an army colonel with staff died from a grenade attack. Those 4 - 5 (?) are not included in the 13. My remark about Robert A. c.s. with thousands of rounds fired relates to April 10th only. Read the report submitted to the ICC.

So what are you trying to tell me here ?

[pisico]

Strange.

In the case i am a witness off, which is one of these thirteen, forensic investigations have been finished over a year ago. An autopsy has been performed, the bullet that killed the victim, Channarong Ponsrila, has been bagged. Several videos of the incident, shot from different positions, have been handed over to the DSI (some show soldiers as well). The crime scene has been photographed, including additional bullet holes showing the trajectory of the bullets.

After having been questioned several times by both DSI and police, i haven't heard anything from them anymore in almost a year. Now i have to read this - that the case is not even at the prosecution, but still in the initial stages of the justice process.

Interesting is, in comparison, that many cases against the Red Shirts have already led to convictions, are in the process of being tried, or have court dates set.

Interesting and shameful. The Democrats know very well that Suthep and Chan Ocha gave specific orders to neutralize with extreme prejudice the "troublemakers". Confident that they would never fall off from grace from the people and were to stay in government for 4 more years, they created a maze of confusion to shelter those in the party, government and/or the army. Little did they know that several videos surfaced as a strong evidence to support the fact that indeed the army had been shooting live ammo against protesters and that the people would boot them out of office. Who shot those who died inside the temple after the rally had been dispersed?

But that wacky bunch of folks that still insist that the army was threatened by swarms of Black Shirts armed to the teeth including RPG, etc., would not have any other way.

I remember when you were describing the type of shotgun shells used during the rally (buck shot), those same folks insisted that your first hand information was wrong: those were rubber shotgun shell. Never mind you had those empty shells in your hands. They own the truth, not you; you know?

Your pointed observation that the cases against the Red Shirts were fast tracked leading to convictions, and all the questionable deaths attributed to the army creates the specter of a cover-up: convincing evidence that these cases were purposely bungled to protect high brass in government and the army.

Is this any different from the 3 day delayed police reaction when the gambling dens were made public? Why the search warrants were not issued wide and in depth? Different cases, same MO.

Edited September 17, 2011 by metisdead
Font resized.

[nicknostitz]

Those thirteen mentioned in the OP relate to April 10th, 2010. That very day an army colonel with staff died from a grenade attack. Those 4 - 5 (?) are not included in the 13. My remark about Robert A. c.s. with thousands of rounds fired relates to April 10th only. Read the report submitted to the ICC.

So what are you trying to tell me here ?

You are wrong.

These thirteen case relate to cases of several incidents violence in which there is ample proof that the military them. Those include Hiro at April 10, the soldier that died in the friendly fire incident on April 28, three of the 6 dead at Wat Pratum (not all 6 as the OP says), the death of Fabio on May 19, and the death of Channarong Ponsrila on May 15 (in whose case i am a witness), and several others. There are many more cases in which there is not (yet) enough sufficient evidence to point to the military. That does of course not mean that they were killed by Red Shirt militants. Some case though there is clear evidence of Red Shirt militants having killed people, such as Colonel Romklao and other soldiers on April 10, the anti Red protester in the grenade attack on Silom, and one soldier on May 19.

Here also again the quote from the OP:

"The 13 victims of last year's clashes include a Japanese cameraman who was shot dead on April 10 at Rajdamnoen Avenue, six who were found dead at Wat Pathum Wanaram after the Ratchaprasong rally was brought to an end on May 19, and the killing of an Italian journalist. The DSI initially took the investigation of the cases off the hands of the police bureau."

[rubl]

You are wrong.

"The 13 victims of last year's clashes include a Japanese cameraman who was shot dead on April 10 at Rajdamnoen Avenue, six who were found dead at Wat Pathum Wanaram after the Ratchaprasong rally was brought to an end on May 19, and the killing of an Italian journalist. The DSI initially took the investigation of the cases off the hands of the police bureau."

I stand corrected on that part

Still, my post had

"Anyway most likely army personel killed some protesters and maybe the Japanese reporter running around. On the other hand UDD militants killed some army personel and killed / wounded more later on in their 'grenade lobbing' season. ... With Robert A. c.s. saying that on April 10th the army fired thousands of rounds into the packed mass of protesters, it's a miracle not more died."

May I add: and without the situation improving, 100,000 cartridges missing, 'only' 91 in six weeks seems a miracle.

Edited September 17, 2011 by rubl

[fasteddie]

"The government should sponsor a public forum for all sides to exchange views to raise awareness that political conflicts are normal for a society in transition."

Modify to add - When attending a peaceful protest carrying AK-47s and similar, RPGs, M-79s and similar, is not normal or acceptable. Inciting hatred and violence is a serious crime, as is aiding, abetting and sheltering those committing acts of violence.

Also add Advisory Note - When wishing to protest a political decision or action (such as a coup) it is better to do so as soon as possible. Protesting several years after the event and several changes of government can lead to the impression of insincerity, deceit and ulterior motives in your stated reasons and goals of protest. Spontaneous protest is much more credible, but this credibility is rapidly eroded when financial incentives for attendance are offered and/or accepted.

''When attending a peaceful protest carrying AK-47s and similar, RPGs, M-79s''

'' Inciting hatred and violence is a serious crime, as is aiding, abetting and sheltering those committing acts of violence.''

You are so right, and don't forget assassinating unarmed civilians using snipers on rooftops and flyovers, the army certainly has a lot to answer for.

[rubl]

"The government should sponsor a public forum for all sides to exchange views to raise awareness that political conflicts are normal for a society in transition."

Modify to add - When attending a peaceful protest carrying AK-47s and similar, RPGs, M-79s and similar, is not normal or acceptable. Inciting hatred and violence is a serious crime, as is aiding, abetting and sheltering those committing acts of violence.

Also add Advisory Note - When wishing to protest a political decision or action (such as a coup) it is better to do so as soon as possible. Protesting several years after the event and several changes of government can lead to the impression of insincerity, deceit and ulterior motives in your stated reasons and goals of protest. Spontaneous protest is much more credible, but this credibility is rapidly eroded when financial incentives for attendance are offered and/or accepted.

''When attending a peaceful protest carrying AK-47s and similar, RPGs, M-79s''

'' Inciting hatred and violence is a serious crime, as is aiding, abetting and sheltering those committing acts of violence.''

You are so right, and don't forget assassinating unarmed civilians using snipers on rooftops and flyovers, the army certainly has a lot to answer for.

Did they? The renegade general Seh Daeng was assassinated and probably by army personel. Others were killed but not assassinated, independent of whether army personel or UDD militants did it.

[OzMick]

"The government should sponsor a public forum for all sides to exchange views to raise awareness that political conflicts are normal for a society in transition."

Modify to add - When attending a peaceful protest carrying AK-47s and similar, RPGs, M-79s and similar, is not normal or acceptable. Inciting hatred and violence is a serious crime, as is aiding, abetting and sheltering those committing acts of violence.

Also add Advisory Note - When wishing to protest a political decision or action (such as a coup) it is better to do so as soon as possible. Protesting several years after the event and several changes of government can lead to the impression of insincerity, deceit and ulterior motives in your stated reasons and goals of protest. Spontaneous protest is much more credible, but this credibility is rapidly eroded when financial incentives for attendance are offered and/or accepted.

''When attending a peaceful protest carrying AK-47s and similar, RPGs, M-79s''

'' Inciting hatred and violence is a serious crime, as is aiding, abetting and sheltering those committing acts of violence.''

You are so right, and don't forget assassinating unarmed civilians using snipers on rooftops and flyovers, the army certainly has a lot to answer for.

While some actions of the army may come under question, quelling an armed insurrection under the orders of the legitimate government will not be one of them.

It is a well known military doctrine that attacking a larger and better armed force is suicidal. Doing so on the instructions of a megalomaniac who would prefer you dead (the better to malign the government) is simple stupidity.

Face reality. If ONE soldier had been ordered to kill protesters, his standard carry of 150 rounds could have achieved 90+ deaths. It is red shirt dogma that all deaths were caused by the army, even their own, yet reds have confessed to firing RPGs and M-79s, exploding car bombs and various other acts not carried out by peaceful protesters. Yet "we did nothing wrong" is the red line.

You may wish to view the video of the red arsonist attempting to burn a truck, and shot in the foot. A great shot with a degree of difficulty about 10 compared to a 3 for one through the head. And looters and arsonists are regularly shot dead during riots in other parts of the world with no question of legality.

[lungmi]

Did they? The renegade general Seh Daeng was assassinated and probably by army personel. Others were killed but not assassinated, independent of whether army personel or UDD militants did it.

Seh Deng was killed by water melon soldiers or tomato cops, a right wing fascist got out of control after the raid on the hospital. Dangerous for the "Reds" and their international reputation. One of the conspiracy theories, plausibility very high.

[serenitynow]

Seh Deng was killed by water melon soldiers or tomato cops, a right wing fascist got out of control after the raid on the hospital. Dangerous for the "Reds" and their international reputation. One of the conspiracy theories, plausibility very high.

'

You could very well be right, but on who's order?

[phiphidon]

You are wrong.

"The 13 victims of last year's clashes include a Japanese cameraman who was shot dead on April 10 at Rajdamnoen Avenue, six who were found dead at Wat Pathum Wanaram after the Ratchaprasong rally was brought to an end on May 19, and the killing of an Italian journalist. The DSI initially took the investigation of the cases off the hands of the police bureau."

I stand corrected on that part

Still, my post had

"Anyway most likely army personel killed some protesters and maybe the Japanese reporter running around. On the other hand UDD militants killed some army personel and killed / wounded more later on in their 'grenade lobbing' season. ... With Robert A. c.s. saying that on April 10th the army fired thousands of rounds into the packed mass of protesters, it's a miracle not more died."

May I add: and without the situation improving, 100,000 cartridges missing, 'only' 91 in six weeks seems a miracle.

Well, mercy me, only 91 dead in 6 weeks, blessed are we. That's 91 DEAD people Rubl, not a statistic to be calculated against the number of bullets shot, misappropriated, lost, sold or what ever. I despair sometimes of the hard arsed attitudes people have over this.

[rubl]

You are wrong.

"The 13 victims of last year's clashes include a Japanese cameraman who was shot dead on April 10 at Rajdamnoen Avenue, six who were found dead at Wat Pathum Wanaram after the Ratchaprasong rally was brought to an end on May 19, and the killing of an Italian journalist. The DSI initially took the investigation of the cases off the hands of the police bureau."

I stand corrected on that part

Still, my post had

"Anyway most likely army personel killed some protesters and maybe the Japanese reporter running around. On the other hand UDD militants killed some army personel and killed / wounded more later on in their 'grenade lobbing' season. ... With Robert A. c.s. saying that on April 10th the army fired thousands of rounds into the packed mass of protesters, it's a miracle not more died."

May I add: and without the situation improving, 100,000 cartridges missing, 'only' 91 in six weeks seems a miracle.

Well, mercy me, only 91 dead in 6 weeks, blessed are we. That's 91 DEAD people Rubl, not a statistic to be calculated against the number of bullets shot, misappropriated, lost, sold or what ever. I despair sometimes of the hard arsed attitudes people have over this.

Yes, love. you might have missed that my post ended with

"Still even a single one is one too many"

(PS I copied from a reply by londonthai, but seem to have missed he deleted this last sentence. Tricky bas...)

Edited September 17, 2011 by rubl

[nicknostitz]

Seh Deng was killed by water melon soldiers or tomato cops, a right wing fascist got out of control after the raid on the hospital. Dangerous for the "Reds" and their international reputation. One of the conspiracy theories, plausibility very high.

Plausibility miniscule to nil.

The trajectory of the bullet that killed him points clearly to the upper floors of a building that was under complete control of the military forces, and not of an empty building that rogue soldiers could have accessed.

There is an advantage in attending public hearings in which forensic evidence is presented by investigators to the public ...

[nicknostitz]

You are wrong.

"The 13 victims of last year's clashes include a Japanese cameraman who was shot dead on April 10 at Rajdamnoen Avenue, six who were found dead at Wat Pathum Wanaram after the Ratchaprasong rally was brought to an end on May 19, and the killing of an Italian journalist. The DSI initially took the investigation of the cases off the hands of the police bureau."

I stand corrected on that part

Still, my post had

"Anyway most likely army personel killed some protesters and maybe the Japanese reporter running around. On the other hand UDD militants killed some army personel and killed / wounded more later on in their 'grenade lobbing' season. ... With Robert A. c.s. saying that on April 10th the army fired thousands of rounds into the packed mass of protesters, it's a miracle not more died."

May I add: and without the situation improving, 100,000 cartridges missing, 'only' 91 in six weeks seems a miracle.

You forget that there were about 2000 injured as well.

[rubl]

You forget that there were about 2000 injured as well.

Maybe even more. Curious that figures on type of injuries and numbers have never been published. As far as I know that is. Any idea?

Still the OP is about 13 deaths out of the 91 in that dreadful period April - May 2010.

[Buchholz]

Seh Deng was killed by water melon soldiers or tomato cops, a right wing fascist got out of control after the raid on the hospital. Dangerous for the "Reds" and their international reputation. One of the conspiracy theories, plausibility very high.

Plausibility miniscule to nil.

The trajectory of the bullet that killed him points clearly to the upper floors of a building that was under complete control of the military forces, and not of an empty building that rogue soldiers could have accessed.

There is an advantage in attending public hearings in which forensic evidence is presented by investigators to the public ...

Wonder if the survivors reminisced over the good times with their fallen comrade when they reunited today.

.

Edited September 17, 2011 by Buchholz

[phiphidon]

You are wrong.

"The 13 victims of last year's clashes include a Japanese cameraman who was shot dead on April 10 at Rajdamnoen Avenue, six who were found dead at Wat Pathum Wanaram after the Ratchaprasong rally was brought to an end on May 19, and the killing of an Italian journalist. The DSI initially took the investigation of the cases off the hands of the police bureau."

I stand corrected on that part

Still, my post had

"Anyway most likely army personel killed some protesters and maybe the Japanese reporter running around. On the other hand UDD militants killed some army personel and killed / wounded more later on in their 'grenade lobbing' season. ... With Robert A. c.s. saying that on April 10th the army fired thousands of rounds into the packed mass of protesters, it's a miracle not more died."

May I add: and without the situation improving, 100,000 cartridges missing, 'only' 91 in six weeks seems a miracle.

Well, mercy me, only 91 dead in 6 weeks, blessed are we. That's 91 DEAD people Rubl, not a statistic to be calculated against the number of bullets shot, misappropriated, lost, sold or what ever. I despair sometimes of the hard arsed attitudes people have over this.

Yes, love. you might have missed that my post ended with

"Still even a single one is one too many"

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4703587

(PS I copied from a reply by londonthai, but seem to have missed he deleted this last sentence. Tricky bas...)

That hardly exonerates yours and others attitude to these matters e.g "cameraman running around" as though he was deliberately offering himself up as a target. All the usual excuses will no doubt now be trotted out, they shouldn't have been there, they were warned etc. I stand by my opinion of some pretty hard nosed bar stewards on this forum.

[phiphidon]

Seh Deng was killed by water melon soldiers or tomato cops, a right wing fascist got out of control after the raid on the hospital. Dangerous for the "Reds" and their international reputation. One of the conspiracy theories, plausibility very high.

Plausibility miniscule to nil.

The trajectory of the bullet that killed him points clearly to the upper floors of a building that was under complete control of the military forces, and not of an empty building that rogue soldiers could have accessed.

There is an advantage in attending public hearings in which forensic evidence is presented by investigators to the public ...

Wonder if the survivors reminisced over the good times with their fallen comrade when they reunited today.

.

Any source for the photo Buchholz, or just trolling?

[rubl]

Well, mercy me, only 91 dead in 6 weeks, blessed are we. That's 91 DEAD people Rubl, not a statistic to be calculated against the number of bullets shot, misappropriated, lost, sold or what ever. I despair sometimes of the hard arsed attitudes people have over this.

Yes, love. you might have missed that my post ended with

"Still even a single one is one too many"

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4703587

(PS I copied from a reply by londonthai, but seem to have missed he deleted this last sentence. Tricky bas...)

That hardly exonerates yours and others attitude to these matters e.g "cameraman running around" as though he was deliberately offering himself up as a target. All the usual excuses will no doubt now be trotted out, they shouldn't have been there, they were warned etc. I stand by my opinion of some pretty hard nosed bar stewards on this forum.

You are entitled to your opinion. Freedom of speech within (democratic, polite, human rights, etc., etc.) limits. Be careful what you right on your facebook page in the UK, big brother seems to be watching