seadoo Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 I've raised this point a few times, including with the Mayor. Under international Maritime Law, which rules apply under Thai Maritime Law, your are required to hold a sufficiently acquired boat/vessel license in order to operate any vessel and/or water craft that is capable of speeds in excess of 5 knots. You are also required to power down any boat and or water craft to less than 5 knots within 100m of swimmers. So to stop all this is simple, they need to enforce this law which does not permit a vessel to be operated without a license. Same as police on roads stopping and fining people for not having a license the same could apply here and as such the owners would also be breaking the law by renting them out to unlicensed operators. It is also almost impossible for a foreigner to obtain a license to operate a Thai Registered vessel as due to Nationalistic laws, this privilege is reserved for Thai Nationals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmo Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Are you sure about the International Maritime Law? I know several western countries including my home country where it is perfectly legal to own and drive a 100mph powerboat with twin bigblock V8s with no drivinglicense whatsoever and there are no laws about swimmers like that either in my home country. There has been a lively discussion in here about whether my country will some day require an driving license for powerboats but even the proponents for such law have never raised an argument about any international law existing. So I think you made up the whole international law thing. I also know that there are jetski renting businesses all over the world with no problems with driving licenses whatsoever that I have ever heard of. Maybe you could point to some specific thai law or point out some information about whether there exists some thai authority where it is provably possible to obtain an valid driving licence for boats. Somebody could be interested in obtaining one if they really are required. I know that in my home country there is no such authority that issues boat driving licenses at all as such things do not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Are you sure about the International Maritime Law? I know several western countries including my home country where it is perfectly legal to own and drive a 100mph powerboat with twin bigblock V8s with no drivinglicense whatsoever and there are no laws about swimmers like that either in my home country. There has been a lively discussion in here about whether my country will some day require an driving license for powerboats but even the proponents for such law have never raised an argument about any international law existing. So I think you made up the whole international law thing. I also know that there are jetski renting businesses all over the world with no problems with driving licenses whatsoever that I have ever heard of. Maybe you could point to some specific thai law or point out some information about whether there exists some thai authority where it is provably possible to obtain an valid driving licence for boats. Somebody could be interested in obtaining one if they really are required. I know that in my home country there is no such authority that issues boat driving licenses at all as such things do not exist. I understand that about 3/6 months ago a law was passed in Thailand that requires a license. Following is the URL for maritime licenses in Thailand. http://www.md.go.th/eng_page/contact_eng.php Also by way of example Australia require a license for small craft and it is enforced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maidu Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 Interesting to come at the issue with talk of 'maritime law' .....whatever works to eradicate jet ski rental operation, the better. Bottom line, is money. Next is the fact that Thais are operating the extortions. Because they're Thais, they're very subjective about it. If any amount of income is being threatened, then they can spout any number of excuses. If excuses don't seem to be working (they work for fellow Thais, they don't work for farang), then threats with fists or knives are next, unless they can just run away (not too easy, when needing to work daily on a public beach). Some robbers sneak in to houses, in a random fashion. Thai jet ski extortionists strut their stuff daily, in full view of anyone who cares to watch. Amazing Thailand indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londoedan Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 Why doesn't every hotel warn their guests about this? A relatively simple procedure, either hand out a warning letter along with their room key, breakfast vouchers, etc. when guests check in; or have the reception staff verbally tell them not to rent jet skis, or to only use a particular rental company that they trust. Most hotels must be aware of it by now, so this would be a guaranteed way to communicate with every tourist who stays in Pattaya and could go a long way to snuffing out the problem. On the off-chance that some hotels don't know yet, or haven't thought to do this, there must be communication channels with email databases via TAT or whatever to spread the word to every Pattaya hotel. Great idea - or a simple well-placed notice in the hotel foyer would also work. However, I get the impression that there the powers-that-be in Pattaya will not allow this to happen as it will damage their revenue flow. Hopefully this is something the TPV and the FPV could pick up on and action - though they often appear busy walking around (in those dodgy uniforms), hanging around a vehicle at the bottom of WS or sitting at their desks in the Soi 9 cop-shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seadoo Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 I remember seeing large banners tied up to trees along beach road in Patong warning people of Timeshare sellers, why can't they do the same in Pattaya but about the ski's - although they would only stay up for about 5 mins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantilley Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 Great idea - or a simple well-placed notice in the hotel foyer would also work. However, I get the impression that there the powers-that-be in Pattaya will not allow this to happen as it will damage their revenue flow. The powers that be wouldn't be able to stop them. Handing out leaflets or verbally telling guests - the jet ski guys wouldn't know it was being done. Signs in foyers - easier to know it's happening, but what are they going to do, walk in to hotel grounds and start taking down notices? At every one of the hundreds of Pattaya hotels and guest houses? Even if they did have the gall to do so, it would be a full time job to constantly take down all the signs as they're put back up again, so better they spend the time doing that than robbing people on the beach. Anyway, forgetting about the putting up signs method for a moment, if every hotel introduced a policy of informing each of their guests on check-in about the scam it would disappear overnight. Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect App Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LennyW Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 Great idea - or a simple well-placed notice in the hotel foyer would also work. However, I get the impression that there the powers-that-be in Pattaya will not allow this to happen as it will damage their revenue flow. The powers that be wouldn't be able to stop them. Handing out leaflets or verbally telling guests - the jet ski guys wouldn't know it was being done. Signs in foyers - easier to know it's happening, but what are they going to do, walk in to hotel grounds and start taking down notices? At every one of the hundreds of Pattaya hotels and guest houses? Even if they did have the gall to do so, it would be a full time job to constantly take down all the signs as they're put back up again, so better they spend the time doing that than robbing people on the beach. Anyway, forgetting about the putting up signs method for a moment, if every hotel introduced a policy of informing each of their guests on check-in about the scam it would disappear overnight. Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect App You would think it would be simple enough to hand out a leaflet / card with their keys explaining the dangers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantilley Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 You would think it would be simple enough to hand out a leaflet / card with their keys explaining the dangers. Exactly. Therefore the only challenge remains communicating this to every hotel to get them to start doing it. I'm sure there must be a hotel contact database or other channel TAT (or whoever) could use to do this. Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect App Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobo Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 Many of the tourist to Phuket come on a 2/3 week trip. They usually go with a travel agency. Scandinavians,Germans, etc Where I come from (Northern Europe) the agency crew from the company in Phuket warns the guest from have anything to do with jetskis...I have understand that Indians are more targeted than others, I suppose they don't get the info. I walk the beach now and then, they even't look at me..It's all about information...as I said I only go to the beach maybe once a week, but haven't they got a little bit more aggressive? Maybe the business is slowing down a bit. I hope... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantilley Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 Yes I think many westerners are wise to it now from reading about it online or from being warned by their travel agents. Just leaves the hapless Indians who are still being scammed, once Indian travel agents and Indian websites cotton onto out though, will that finally see this scam's demise? Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect App Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4.real Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 It is in the hotels interest to warn of the scammers. Anyone getting scammed will not return to Pattaya and will probably tell others at home about being robbed and getting no assistance from the local police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striderman Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 i have had a couple of days off visiting the beach, there are other things which distract me in pattaya. had a brief walk along the coconut bar at 14 50, much earlier than usual but got 1 in play right at the very start of the south end of the beach. 2 indians getting the shakedown. what happened later in the day who knows, but the problem is still very much active Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smedly Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 It is in the hotels interest to warn of the scammers. Anyone getting scammed will not return to Pattaya and will probably tell others at home about being robbed and getting no assistance from the local police. There may be legal reasons why hotels cannot issue warnings - don't forget some in authority and those doing the scams would have you believe it's all above board when "we all know" that it isn't Although we all fully understand what it going on every day - try proving it, it would take some sort of huge sting operation by the authorities to actually get to grips with this and in the end what would happen. Legislation is the only path, recording of all incidents with each individual JS so that there is a full record of each incident and the damage logged - huge operation maybe some time in the future everyone from every country will know not to hire them before they set foot in LOS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantilley Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 There may be legal reasons why hotels cannot issue warnings - don't forget some in authority and those doing the scams would have you believe it's all above board when "we all know" that it isn't As mentioned before, the authorities wouldn't know warnings were being issued. There would be no way to prevent hotels warning their guests if they wanted to. Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect App Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LennyW Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 There may be legal reasons why hotels cannot issue warnings - don't forget some in authority and those doing the scams would have you believe it's all above board when "we all know" that it isn't As mentioned before, the authorities wouldn't know warnings were being issued. There would be no way to prevent hotels warning their guests if they wanted to. Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect App They could do a simple print over of the breakfast coupons, or leave a leaflet in the room with the courtesy stationery or something like that, does not need to be an out and out "do not rent" , just a good warning to exercise extreme caution as their have been unsavory incidents, also to be aware pickpocket katoeys too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantilley Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Letter in with breakfast coupons better, along with a brief word to make sure they read it. No doesn't have to be "do not rent" but "use our preferred company which is Jet Ski rental X". For the really cheap places which don't do breakfast verbal warnings would suffice. Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect App Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striderman Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 (edited) meanwhile having phoned in a take away for lunch i had a walk down and past bali hai to see how the marina is doing. answer very slowly. long walk back in the sun to about 10 mtrs past yesterdays incident and there was another event bang on 17 00 hrs 5 by 5, as it was five indians were getting squeezed right opposite soi 13/3 at the start of pattaya beach. i was too hot to walk any further i had done enough for the day. so far i have yet to draw a blank on any day that i have been to the beach Edited August 27, 2012 by striderman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyserSoze01 Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 There may be legal reasons why hotels cannot issue warnings - don't forget some in authority and those doing the scams would have you believe it's all above board when "we all know" that it isn't As mentioned before, the authorities wouldn't know warnings were being issued. There would be no way to prevent hotels warning their guests if they wanted to. Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect App Have you ever been to Thailand? You scheme would not work as the coconut telegraph would have the bad guys informed of the hotel's tactic and they would either burn the place down or beat the crap out of the party responsible for placing the warnings onsite. You forget that the BiB are complicit in this scam. If they weren't they would have incentive to shut it down, but since they are taking a slice of the take, then it is allowed to continue. Much like every vendor on beach road has to pay the BiB for the privilege to setup and sell their wares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthEnergiser Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 The famous youtube clip is still getting plenty of comments including reports from victims Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthEnergiser Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Led by the Chonburi governor, another senior level meeting – the umpteenth of its kind – was held at Pattaya City Hall to try and solve the jet ski menace to tourists. There was general agreement that, despite many promises from civic authorities and the police, foreign tourists continued to be the target of some jet ski operators who cheated visitors and demanded enormous sums of money for faked damage to craft. Some observers believe that the jet ski operators comprise a formidable pressure group in Pattaya with many influential friends. http://pattayatoday.net/news/news-from-around-pattaya/yet-another-jet-ski-meeting-held/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soihok Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Go for it Striderman............carry on exposing the thugs........you are a star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantilley Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 You scheme would not work as the coconut telegraph would have the bad guys informed of the hotel's tactic and they would either burn the place down or beat the crap out of the party responsible for placing the warnings onsite. I think that's overly pessimistic. I think it would work and should be tried. Very unlikely hotel staff would get attacked and certainly hotels wouldn't get burned down. I think I read somewhere that some hotels already do this - perhaps part of the reason it's only Indians left getting scammed now: some hotels are particularly geared towards certain nationalities of guests, and it could be that Indian-focused hotels haven't issued warnings yet. Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect App Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyserSoze01 Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 You scheme would not work as the coconut telegraph would have the bad guys informed of the hotel's tactic and they would either burn the place down or beat the crap out of the party responsible for placing the warnings onsite. I think that's overly pessimistic. I think it would work and should be tried. Very unlikely hotel staff would get attacked and certainly hotels wouldn't get burned down. I think I read somewhere that some hotels already do this - perhaps part of the reason it's only Indians left getting scammed now: some hotels are particularly geared towards certain nationalities of guests, and it could be that Indian-focused hotels haven't issued warnings yet. Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect App I agree that it's worth a shot, but with the Indian government already warning tourists traveling to Thailand about this scam, I'm not sure how much it would help. I don't think I am being overly pessimistic, merely realistic as I know how things work in, let's just say emerging markets. Out of curiosity and not meaning to sound contrite, how long have you been living in Thailand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dantilley Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 The Indian government's doing that? Really? Then it's amazing it's still happening, if you mean an official travel advisory. If there's been an official warning issued by the government then it's either being ignored or it isn't getting out to tourists before they travel here for some reason. I'd go with the latter, and a sure fire way to communicate with every tourist who comes here is via hotels - every tourist had to stay in one (well, except the 0.5% or whatever who stay with friends). To answer your other question, I've lived here for 7 years. Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect App Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHRISTIANa9 Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 There may be legal reasons why hotels cannot issue warnings - don't forget some in authority and those doing the scams would have you believe it's all above board when "we all know" that it isn't As mentioned before, the authorities wouldn't know warnings were being issued. There would be no way to prevent hotels warning their guests if they wanted to. Sent from my GT-I9300T using Thaivisa Connect App Have you ever been to Thailand? You scheme would not work as the coconut telegraph would have the bad guys informed of the hotel's tactic and they would either burn the place down or beat the crap out of the party responsible for placing the warnings onsite. You forget that the BiB are complicit in this scam. If they weren't they would have incentive to shut it down, but since they are taking a slice of the take, then it is allowed to continue. Much like every vendor on beach road has to pay the BiB for the privilege to setup and sell their wares. I have seen notice by the wall near the lift, advising guest not to pay on the spot fines for not having passport with them. Guest were advised to return to the hotel and seek staff assistance. This is in Bangkok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canman Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Are you sure about the International Maritime Law? I know several western countries including my home country where it is perfectly legal to own and drive a 100mph powerboat with twin bigblock V8s with no drivinglicense whatsoever and there are no laws about swimmers like that either in my home country. There has been a lively discussion in here about whether my country will some day require an driving license for powerboats but even the proponents for such law have never raised an argument about any international law existing. So I think you made up the whole international law thing. I also know that there are jetski renting businesses all over the world with no problems with driving licenses whatsoever that I have ever heard of. Maybe you could point to some specific thai law or point out some information about whether there exists some thai authority where it is provably possible to obtain an valid driving licence for boats. Somebody could be interested in obtaining one if they really are required. I know that in my home country there is no such authority that issues boat driving licenses at all as such things do not exist. I suspect this only applies in international waters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Are you sure about the International Maritime Law? I know several western countries including my home country where it is perfectly legal to own and drive a 100mph powerboat with twin bigblock V8s with no drivinglicense whatsoever and there are no laws about swimmers like that either in my home country. There has been a lively discussion in here about whether my country will some day require an driving license for powerboats but even the proponents for such law have never raised an argument about any international law existing. So I think you made up the whole international law thing. I also know that there are jetski renting businesses all over the world with no problems with driving licenses whatsoever that I have ever heard of. Maybe you could point to some specific thai law or point out some information about whether there exists some thai authority where it is provably possible to obtain an valid driving licence for boats. Somebody could be interested in obtaining one if they really are required. I know that in my home country there is no such authority that issues boat driving licenses at all as such things do not exist. I suspect this only applies in international waters. An example is Australia where you are required to have a license for a powered boat as well as for a jet ski for inshore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmo Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) Could not bother gooling longer than 2 minutes, but it seems that rules of drivers license vary a lot if there are any. In Australia and in Canada there seems to be a requirement of license for all motorboats regarless of hp or speed. In USA is seems vary from state to state and for example California and Florida seems to have no licensing at all. In France the limit seems to be 10 hp, In Germany 5 hp, In Sweden they failed to put into law a licensing for boats exceeding 15 or 30 knots. Even in Germany the rules seem to be that citizens of Germany are reguired to have a license for over 5hp boats, but for any alien visitor it is the requirements of the home country that apply so coming from a country with more relaxed rules it is those and coming from a country where there are no rules it could be mean no drivers license required at all for those individuals even in Germany. With my limited 2 minute googling I could not find even one country where the rules are exactly like the user 'seadoo' suggested and each country seems to have different rules. So I think we really need to know what is it exactly that the thai law says as extrapolating from rules of other countries seems pointless. I am talking about recreational operation of small boats as ships and commercial operation are sure to have licensing requirements in many places. Edited August 28, 2012 by jmo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) The post is when will it stop , the answer is "It will not" Licensing means absolutely nothing in Pattaya anyway so it is a moot point. IMO Edited August 28, 2012 by Ohio 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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