Thai Monks Trade Gun And Theft Claims

[fabianfred]

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/study/merit.html

[nurofiend]

I see quite a few fat monks....strange how that can happen if they only have one meal a day.

Have also heard horror stories of massive amounts of child molestation going on in temples during the season when the young novices stay at the temples. Have heard about it from many Thai adults. All hush hush though.

i remember after a very long drunken night in chiang mai, i gave a monk two ham and cheese 7/11 toasties during the alms as i stood outside the shop... he seemed happy with them!!

he even asked me do i have a place to stay and if i wanted to go back with them to sleep in the temple, and no i'm not a scruffy homeless looking old man who he felt sorry for..i'm 27, so i would've been around 23-24 at the time.... he must've just really liked those toasties!! haha

I smile at everybody...not because I'm pleased at what they have donated...but to see them doing good by making merit. A monk smiling at you and inviting you to stay at a temple isn't cause to suspect him as a sex-fiend. The PC BS which has overrun Europe and the US isn't here yet fortunately, so it is still possible to smile at someone without being branded a rapist.

i was joking around... tongue in cheek

i'm fully aware the monk was just being friendly for the sake of being friendly!

[nurofiend]

I see quite a few fat monks....strange how that can happen if they only have one meal a day.

Have also heard horror stories of massive amounts of child molestation going on in temples during the season when the young novices stay at the temples. Have heard about it from many Thai adults. All hush hush though.

i remember after a very long drunken night in chiang mai, i gave a monk two ham and cheese 7/11 toasties during the alms as i stood outside the shop... he seemed happy with them!!

he even asked me do i have a place to stay and if i wanted to go back with them to sleep in the temple, and no i'm not a scruffy homeless looking old man who he felt sorry for..i'm 27, so i would've been around 23-24 at the time.... he must've just really liked those toasties!! haha

I smile at everybody...not because I'm pleased at what they have donated...but to see them doing good by making merit. A monk smiling at you and inviting you to stay at a temple isn't cause to suspect him as a sex-fiend. The PC BS which has overrun Europe and the US isn't here yet fortunately, so it is still possible to smile at someone without being branded a rapist.

i was joking around... tongue in cheek

i'm fully aware the monk was just being friendly for the sake of being friendly!

Also, i really hope you don't think i was implying or had suspected that he was a sex fiend because he invited me to stay!! lol

he just seen me in a drunk state and probably thought i had nowhere to stay!

[Thaddeus]

Monks are humans with human failings they are not perfect and amongst thousands of monks there will be one or twop 'bad apples'.

This is no different from any religion. To criticize all monks for the actions of a few would be like saying all RC priests are paedophiles based on the actions of a some who entered the priesthood to satisfy their own sexual perversions.

Even if the OP is proven to be true this merely shows that some people pose as monks to satisfy their own greed.

For every 'fake corrupt monk' how many genuine ones are in temples on a daily basis.

Time for a little critical analysis.

Let's just assume that, by your own words, there are one or two 'bad apples'.... these bad apples live, eat and sleep amongst the good ones, are the good ones blind, deaf and dumb? (both meanings) I don't think so, the inaction of the so called 'good ones' is an act of condonation, more cynical people would say approval.

So, the answer to the last line is, none.

If anyone truly wants to achieve a state of enlightenment they should shun the glittery temple, the mobile phone, the mp3 player, stop preaching to others via the internet, go and live in a cave, sit cross legged on the floor and chant 'ohm' until they pass out, it'll be dehydration, but it will probably feel the same.

Organised religion is the original cancer of the human race.

[thequietman]

I see quite a few fat monks....strange how that can happen if they only have one meal a day.

Have also heard horror stories of massive amounts of child molestation going on in temples during the season when the young novices stay at the temples. Have heard about it from many Thai adults. All hush hush though.

Most monks take two meals a day which is OK as long as they are between dawn and noon....only the strict forest monks tend to have only one meal a day. Actually there is little difference between one big meal lasting an hour at ten O'clock and two smaller meals at 8 O'clock after alms-round and another before mid-day.

I'm sure sexual harrasment does go on, especially as you say during the temporary ordination of young novices during their summer holiday season. That doesn't imply all monks are like that....and even if they were nobody is forced to support them.

Too many Farangs get on here and start spouting BS about how the Thais shouldn't give to monks and shouldn't give so much. What business is it of yours if they have a correct understanding of the Dhamma and want to make merit....nobody forces them....we monks do not...and cannot ask for things. Westerners are notoriously stingy when it comes to giving when it gets in-your-face and personal. They are happy to send money to an anonymous large charity and feel good about themselves, but on the ground simple giving, especially when there is a hint of religion around..... another matter.

my brother in law wanted to become a monk for an extended period of time (he stayed 1 year) when my wife asked at the local wat what was the procedure, she was told there was a fee. over one thousand baht i recall. when my wife asked why he must pay this large amount to study buddah and become a monk the answer was administration ! she went nuts, so the head monk backed down to 250 baht and said it wasnt going below this. is it the norm to charge a fee ?

against my wishes she got our pickup blessed and once again a nominal fee. she wanted to get our new house blessed, yes a fee was required with a minimum 150 baht for each monk. we werent asked, we were TOLD that this was the price. when we were giving money to the local wat, my wife made her contribution and the monk asked why we werent giving more as she was married to farrang. another monk from our village was dealing yaba from the wat. it took monthe for the head monk to ask him to leave. all the monks have mobiles, mp4, play station, all smoke and walk around with cooool sunglasses.

the list goes on and it is not exclusive to our village.

there should be some sort of screening process to weed out the undesirables and hangers on. similar to priests, monks are now losing respect in the thai community because of these bad eggs. i think budism is a way of life and not a religion and should be treated as such.

Edited September 24, 2011 by thequietman

[geriatrickid]

Corrupt monks, Anything new?

When i became a monk some of the monks had multiple girlfriends that visited on different days. They also just sat around and smoked all day.

According to the Vinaya...if a monks has sex...he is no longer a monk...just maquerading as one...cheating the lay-people and acquiring much bad karma every minute he doesn't disrobe. Hell is guaranteed for these types.

The name of the monk who says he is too sick to go on alms-round....auan ...sounds like the Thai nickname for 'fatty'...so perhaps his illness is self-inflicted and really just laziness. Even in my temple perfectly healthy monks are too lazy to go on alms-round, prefering to sit and await offerings.

Alms-round is my favorite part of the day.... not for what I receive but for giving the people the opportunity to get some merit....even just a schoolkid who gives a nice 'Wai' earns merit...and a smile from me to see them having a correct attitude.

Your position could easily be interchanged with those that support an organized religion's postion as a means to control the populace. A correct attitude? What is that? Deference to a group of people that position themselves as VIPs to be obeyed and to be catered do? Obedience to those who abuse their positions of trust?

I am not attacking those that have taken a vow of poverty and ask in an honest manner for the support of the community. Rather this business and it is a business, that trades on the superstitions and fears of people is one of the reasons why some societies demonstrate an inability to progress .It brings to mind the European period where people would purchase an Indulgence. There are far too many insincere monks wandering about that no one dares touch for fear of having bad luck or getting in trouble. Wearing monks robes doesn't make someone good or worthy of deference. Let them live as a monk first and show that they are worthy of that deference. I would rather a child showed polite prudence than blind obedience.

A Buddhist would understand the meaning of correct view......showing respect to those who deserve respect...monks, parents, teachers, etc. As a Western non-Buddhist I am not suprised you do not understand.

If you want a monk to be ordained for ten years and show that he can live simply and keep his morals before you decide he is worthy of your offerings....then he would die of starvation before then.

Buddhism does not control anyone...we do not threaten people with hell for not believing in us...unlike some religions. We do not even go out teaching to people, unless they request we do so.

Oh so you are a monk are you? Why are you on the internet being tempted? Isn't one of the tenets of your way of life to avoid such things as the internet? Is this some special dispensation?

Lovely condescending comment that "as a western non Buddhist you are not surprised I do not understand". Is your group something like the freemasons where you have a secret handshake, and that only those that are in the fraternity are capable of enlightenment? I did not say a monk should be ordained for 10 years and show that he lived simply and kept his morals. Howeer, now that you make the statement, I can't disagree with you. And if a monk were to die of starvation, who are you to argue against his fate? Perhaps that monk did something worthy of the starvation in his past life.

To be blunt, I find the ornate extravagances mounted by some of the wats offensive. It is as offensive to me as other religions that prey upon the elderly and the infirm calling for prayer offerings so that these susceptible people will be "saved". I will gladly assist a monk or wat that has demonstrated honesty and integrity. How can you expect simple unenlightened folks like me not to be wary when the religion refuses to take action against its excesses. A case in point is the Tiger Temple. Is this really acceptable? It isn't, yet the temple continues, the profitable business that it is. There are monks and wats that do care for the poor and the sick, I know that. However, too many wats exist as for profit enterprises providing cover for criminals and other assorted riff raff. They should not accept money from those that can least afford to give it. An honest monk would not accept money from the poor.

I put the premonitions and finger wagging of the holy rollers in the same category as gypsy fortune tellers, the televangilists,and the Immams that encourage kids to become suicide bombers. Sorry, but I can't take people in togas offering fortune cookie wisdom seriously, particularly when they are implicated in the sales of voodoo like objects like lucky amulets or in the case of the implicated person in the OP, mixed up with guns.

[sfbandung]

Monks are humans with human failings they are not perfect and amongst thousands of monks there will be one or twop 'bad apples'.

This is no different from any religion. To criticize all monks for the actions of a few would be like saying all RC priests are paedophiles based on the actions of a some who entered the priesthood to satisfy their own sexual perversions.

Even if the OP is proven to be true this merely shows that some people pose as monks to satisfy their own greed.

For every 'fake corrupt monk' how many genuine ones are in temples on a daily basis.

Time for a little critical analysis.

Let's just assume that, by your own words, there are one or two 'bad apples'.... these bad apples live, eat and sleep amongst the good ones, are the good ones blind, deaf and dumb? (both meanings) I don't think so, the inaction of the so called 'good ones' is an act of condonation, more cynical people would say approval.

So, the answer to the last line is, none.

If anyone truly wants to achieve a state of enlightenment they should shun the glittery temple, the mobile phone, the mp3 player, stop preaching to others via the internet, go and live in a cave, sit cross legged on the floor and chant 'ohm' until they pass out, it'll be dehydration, but it will probably feel the same.

Organised religion is the original cancer of the human race.

I'm largely with you, and as a "lapsed Catholic" I'm very aware of the atrocities committed in the name of religion.

But the fact is it's always there and there is a large proportion of the world population who "need" it, if you get my drift.

So if you're going to accept religion as an inevitability, then at least they should be tolerant of other beliefs, or of someone who has none. And despite the fact that there will invariably be bad participants as well as good ones, Buddhism is the only religion that has always preached tolerance.

And maybe we are just lucky to have a good one, but I really like the monks at our local Wat.

[Bagwan]

I must admit that I know little about Buddhism but what I do know doesn't impress me. The young impressionable idiots of the 60's and 70's wandering around UK in monks habits or sitting down blocking pavements and chanting away turned me right off. Rather than giving any thought to whether they might know something that I didn't , the logical conclusion that came to me was that the men in white coats should cart them all away.

Many of the myriad stories of venal monk behaviour bring me much amusement, the one of monks from the wat on Pattaya Tai gathering in from the stall holders in the market opposite and then flogging off the goodies in their own shop on Pattaya Nua had me in hysterics. My wife's son had not benefited from attending school and private tuition and was still unable to read or write to an acceptable level so I readily agreed that he should be handed over to monks and to spend a period of time in a wat. On the second day he called to say all was well and on inquiring how he was able to telephone he said that a monk had given him a spare mobile that he had. When he rang two days later he said that the previous day he had attended a funeral. He joined in the chanting for two hours and was rewarded with 300 baht. I offered to buy him an Uzi, telling him that he could retire by the time he was 25 although he might have problems with his larynx.

Religion vs Science? I'm with the boffins. My simple brain can absorb much of what they have discovered. I would need one much more powerful to understand the concept of there being a Greater Being.

Are the BiB hard at work trying to find a connection between Viktor Bout and a senior monk or three?

[Gonsalviz]

I see quite a few fat monks....strange how that can happen if they only have one meal a day.

Have also heard horror stories of massive amounts of child molestation going on in temples during the season when the young novices stay at the temples. Have heard about it from many Thai adults. All hush hush though.

It all depends on what you call a meal.

[jackr]

Too many Farangs get on here and start spouting BS about how the Thais shouldn't give to monks and shouldn't give so much. What business is it of yours if they have a correct understanding of the Dhamma and want to make merit.

Westerners are notoriously stingy when it comes to giving when it gets in-your-face and personal. They are happy to send money to an anonymous large charity and feel good about themselves...

Where's your 'right concentration' and 'aversion', friend? You seem mightily perplexed and vexed.

I have curious respect for those that give themselves up fully, do not criticize in the face of criticism, and who expect nothing in return. However, I do not respect a holier than thou attitude from the hypocrite nor do I blindly respect those that wear a particular type of clothing until they have proven their worth. Major major reason so many Thais make merit is for the comeback, nothing more. To get that new house, car, iPhone, money, etc etc... and nor for the genuine act of being good. Not all are like this, for sure, but most are.

I hate to say it, but good ole Henry VIII had the 'right mind'.

[amal2029]

Ah Buddhism, the peaceful religion, unless you are Thai

Buddhism is not a religion..! and I am not a Thai