Elephant Rampage: Tragedy Strikes Phuket Honeymooners

[normac44]

Why don't people buy insurance? That's what it's there for......the unexpected. And surely, the camp is licensed and thus has insurance coverage, too? The Gazette should do more than a 'happy ending' story like this and start to do some investigative journalism - and while they are at it, not use terms such as tragedy which implies loss of life. Horror would be more appropriate.

To quote you "Surely the camp is licensed and thus has insurance coverage too" end quote. I would say my son that you have never been to Thailand. This type of thing just does not exist in most parts of Thailand.

when you participate in any activity in LOS you are on your' own.I have seen people badly injured in Pattaya on the go cart tracks and nobody comes to help you. You would probably believe that if you hire a jet ski

and it gets damaged then insurance would cover it...no way.

[kan9a]

A woman suffering a broken leg is hardly a bloody tragedy as the headline would suggest.

Many of these elephants were trained for jobs in logging but have since been made 'redundant'. They are dependant on humans and I dont believe they could easily be released into the wild.

A better solution needs to be found for these animals.

Thailand Elephants attitude problems are similar in Africa where Elephants were killing Rhino in National Parks.

There has been a documentary film made in Africa that illustrates their research efforts to manage their Elephant epidemiology.

It was specific orphan young Males which become mature at too early an age and get aggressive due to being leaderless.

These young adolescents begin producing hormone testosterone before reaching full-grown age and this problem results.

A solution in Africa was found which requires the dominant presence of an elder Matriarchal Mother Elephant in the herd.

When the Matriarch is absent the young Elephants abandon family routine sensibility and react badly becoming pugnacious.

[Andrew Hicks]

This happens a lot. A couple of times / year.

Why do people continue to ride elephants?

Sit on the beach instead.

Please forgive the irrelevance, but why is this member allowed to publicise a book as his avatar?

I am the author of the novel, THAI GIRL, and my avatar was a charicature of myself holding a tiny, tiny red book that was not identifiable. I was told I had to remove it and of course complied.

More importantly, accidents with elephants are a recurring theme, eg in Pattaya and Surin, and something surely needs to be done.

Andrew Hicks

[Gers1873]

A woman suffering a broken leg is hardly a bloody tragedy as the headline would suggest.

Many of these elephants were trained for jobs in logging but have since been made 'redundant'. They are dependant on humans and I dont believe they could easily be released into the wild.

A better solution needs to be found for these animals.

That is a well-worn argument that is no long valid. The former logging elephants have been out of that trade for a long time. A huge percentage of these elephants were born and raised in captivity, thus knowing nothing of a natural life. Tourists want to see and pet baby elephants and the elephant camps are more than happy to keep pumping out new 'products' for them. Plus, a lot of elephants are now being smuggled from surrounding countries.

No, they can't easily be released into the wild. A big part of the solution is to STOP BREEDING THEM in CAPTIVITY! The most difficult part is going to be getting the local elephant camps to give a dam_n and for tourists to start caring about their impact while on vacation.

I don't feel very sorry for these victims. I do hope she recovers, but they should have known better. There is a TON of information about elephant abuse online (in every language). With minimal effort, they could have found that this activity is not without its risk... lesson learned. I hope they tell everyone that they know. That would be a step in a positive direction.

The "Tragedy" is the way elephants and almost all other animals are treated in this country. Compassion is a myth.

Asian elephants can live to between 60-80 years of age. Therefore many of the 'more mature' elephants used in logging are still around. Probably seeking out much younger girlfriends.

Breeding of captive elephants should be banned as it serves no research purpose.

We should bring back circuses and create jobs for the elephants

Edited September 23, 2011 by Gers1873

[BKKBrit]

Why don't people buy insurance? That's what it's there for......the unexpected. And surely, the camp is licensed and thus has insurance coverage, too? The Gazette should do more than a 'happy ending' story like this and start to do some investigative journalism - and while they are at it, not use terms such as tragedy which implies loss of life. Horror would be more appropriate.

To quote you "Surely the camp is licensed and thus has insurance coverage too" end quote. I would say my son that you have never been to Thailand. This type of thing just does not exist in most parts of Thailand.

when you participate in any activity in LOS you are on your' own.I have seen people badly injured in Pattaya on the go cart tracks and nobody comes to help you. You would probably believe that if you hire a jet ski

and it gets damaged then insurance would cover it...no way.

I confess. I think that was a momentary loss of sanity on my part. I was asking the obvious and it slipped my mind that I am in Thailand. Bit of an oxymoron that....Obvious and Thailand.

I am on bended knee seeking forgiveness for not thinking before applying digit to keyboard. :jap: Methinks it's time for a stiff drink.

[Just1Voice]

The best thing that could happen is that this woman returns home, much the wiser, and through her job working for a Tourist Agency, begins to spread the word about this incident, and perhaps many others with just a modicum of research, to let people know the dangers they face when coming here.

[Beetlejuice]

My sympathies go out for this couple and it`s a miracle that both of them were not killed.

My sympathies also go out for the elephants that are kept in appaling conditions, used and abused all for profit.

Tourists should boycott these places, let the companies that own and run the animal farce circuses go out of business and put an end to this practice of animal suffering.

Of course these animals will eventually go mad. Why not just take these elephants and re-locate them where they belong, back in the jungle, or would that be considered as bad for business?

[Dag]

Horses...camels...donkies...buffalo....all wild at one time I guess.....not sure about donkies but.

People should stop abusing wild fish also....fish spas and aquariums etc.

[jeanelie]

I have for years, on regularly weekly basis, in the nineties been visiting an elephant camp in Mae ta Man, an hour drive out of Chiang Mai. The camp used to be on a place difficult to reach because of a muddy road especially in rainy season. The camp is build next to a river and the elephants were used for touristrides. Never I have seen a problem of any kind.In that period already it was clear that the male bulls should not be amongst the elephantcows to walk. With female elephants no problem but dont mix them with the bulls.

[bluebluewater]

And surely, the camp is licensed and thus has insurance coverage, too?

Not a chance that either one are in place

[featography]

This happens a lot. A couple of times / year.

Why do people continue to ride elephants?

Sit on the beach instead.

Oh really? I've been living here for 5 yrs and have only read about 2 incidents like this. You want to supply your source establishing that this happens a lot?

On another note, in my country, the elephant would have been put down, or taken from the owners and put where it will not hurt any other people.

[Johpa]

I couldn't agree with you more; these are wild animals, let them be.

Plenty of other distractions available.

If they were allowed to roam wild they would be culled.

[Trevor25222]

Aren't Ukrainian women lovely? And brave enough to put on a nice smile too!

Isn't it interesting how Thai commercial operators expect, by divine right, monetary compensation for any damage to themselves -- yet the elephant trek owner goes silent after a mere request for medical expenses? How about the Thai government enforcing compulsory third-party insurance on all tourist-related activities as they do for motor vehicles?

Male elephants in must are dangerous creatures, a fact of animal life this particular camp has yet to recognise.

Thailand: nice country, shame about the attitude.

Edited September 23, 2011 by Trevor25222

[Johpa]

Many of these elephants were trained for jobs in logging but have since been made 'redundant'. They are dependant on humans and I dont believe they could easily be released into the wild.

Most of the elephants in these camps today have been trained for tourism use and have never seen a logging camp. And there just are not many wilds left where they can be released.

[Tanaka]

Many of these elephants were trained for jobs in logging but have since been made 'redundant'. They are dependant on humans and I dont believe they could easily be released into the wild.

Most of the elephants in these camps today have been trained for tourism use and have never seen a logging camp. And there just are not many wilds left where they can be released.

This is not true. From where do you have your information? TAT?

Edited September 23, 2011 by Tanaka

[housepainter]

Health and safety in Thailand or as they like to put it themselves; Health and Safety First.

That translates as 'Last'.

Why wasn't the elephant retired, isolated, moved on ......................... because that's the sensible Western thing we'd expect.

When there's money to be made any thing goes. in this case maming, broken legs and trauma. Next time - death.

Ask for money and the Thais run .................. no responsibility, no honesty, decency or compassion.

Will it be stopped? No.

Will anything improve? No.

Will it happen again? Put your shirt on it. Unless you're planning on using it to bind your broken legs.

Next.

[TinoThailand]

People use anything and everything for long times yes... That does not make it right

Elephants are wild animals, they are not domestic.

I wish all injured people a speedy recovery but I wish people would respect these animals a more and not turn them into a form of entertainment.

Wild? - well that depends....

Elephants are used by humans and have been for centuries in a "domesticated" situation

Essentially they come into service in 2 ways - either bred from captive elephants and in effect are domesticated or directly from the wild.

However the males are NEVER truly domesticated and in season can be dangerous - it is a mystery why anyone who keeps elephants would allow the public to come into contact with males.

PS - check out how they are "broken" from the wild.....horrific is an understatement.

As stated above most of the elephants in Thailand are "redundant" logging animals.

to blithely classify them as "wild" really doesn't address the issue at all.

If these animals are "wild" where do they come from and were should they go?

In fat as ex-workers they need to be kept on reserves and looked after.

Unfortunately there is money to be made out of elephants in tourism and now many wild animals are being smuggled in from Burma and sold into cruelty and slavery.

Thailand, as ever, does virtually nothing about this as animal welfare is little more than curio in this country.

[TinoThailand]

haha autopilot? Still a normal risk as well to drive something so big and alive... next indeed

Health and safety in Thailand or as they like to put it themselves; Health and Safety First.

That translates as 'Last'.

Why wasn't the elephant retired, isolated, moved on ......................... because that's the sensible Western thing we'd expect.

When there's money to be made any thing goes. in this case maming, broken legs and trauma. Next time - death.

Ask for money and the Thais run .................. no responsibility, no honesty, decency or compassion.

Will it be stopped? No.

Will anything improve? No.

Will it happen again? Put your shirt on it. Unless you're planning on using it to bind your broken legs.

Next.

[hawker9000]

Isn't it interesting how Thai commercial operators expect, by divine right, monetary compensation for any damage to themselves -- yet the elephant trek owner goes silent after a mere request for medical expenses? How about the Thai government enforcing compulsory third-party insurance on all tourist-related activities as they do for motor vehicles?

Thailand: nice country, shame about the attitude.

This is closer to a solution to this than the idea of "regulation" by the government. Regulation (as in, oversight, licensing, inspection, etc.), in Thailand, would only amount to new "income opportunities"... But some assurance of assignment of liability by the courts, and the ability to recover damages (by foreigners, even!), might change things.

[TinoThailand]

So the tragedy is, humans sitting on top elephants without picking the parasites out of there ears... lol...

[Johpa]

Many of these elephants were trained for jobs in logging but have since been made 'redundant'. They are dependant on humans and I dont believe they could easily be released into the wild.

Most of the elephants in these camps today have been trained for tourism use and have never seen a logging camp. And there just are not many wilds left where they can be released.

This is not true. From where do you have your information? TAT?

My wife and I owned and elephant for 20 years. My father-in-law was once one of the more respected traditional elephant medicine men in Chiang Mai. Today the elephants in the major camps have the good fortune of being treated by real veterinarians.

I know how hard it is to keep an elephant around in any area without it causing damage to neighboring crops. For a while we kept a few elephants up at my father in-law's and every year we paid for the cost of crop damage. At the time it was a somewhat remote area used for trekking tours. That was over 20 years ago and today there is far more cultivated land in the area than before, not to mention paved roads. The only logging has been along the Thai-Burma border, and during the 1990s one still heard of elephants being bought from that region to work in the tourist camps as the need for working elephants diminished. But today, with the costs involved in keeping and feeding the pachyderms, the elephants are less likely to be owned by individuals and rented out and are more likely to be owned by the elephant camp owner. The larger camps now have viable breeding populations. At this juncture, most, not all, but most of the elephants carrying tourists around have never worked in actual logging, although they are trained in the basics of the work for show purposes. We sold our elephant, which has never seen a logging camp, and is now nearing 40 years of age, as the only work for independently owned elephants was in the smaller second and third tier of elephant camps where the care was not as good as in the major camps.

As for the wilds, there are some less populated areas between say Mae Sariang and Kanchanaburi, but these are not unpopulated areas. Human populations and wild elephant populations do not go well together. The elephants always come out on the losing end.

[Tractor]

A woman suffering a broken leg is hardly a bloody tragedy as the headline would suggest.

Many of these elephants were trained for jobs in logging but have since been made 'redundant'. They are dependant on humans and I dont believe they could easily be released into the wild.

A better solution needs to be found for these animals.

There is another solution ... elephant sanctuaries. Like the one just outside of Lampang - albeit that when I visited some years ago they did give elephant rides.

But whilst there is no other employment for those involved in the exploitation of these beasts , then things like this will happen.

In the more enlightened elephant sanctuaries in Thailand and Cambodia, the elephants are not ridden. Check out Elephant Nature Park at Mae Taman, north of Chiang Mai.

http://www.elephantnaturepark.org/

This new form of elephant tourism provides numerous employment opportunities for all. All that is needed is education of Thais as well as of the tourists who would come to ride or to watch the "traditional" show.

Yes, do check out the "crush" where any domesticated elephant is physically tortured until its spirit is broken.

[SunsetT]

A woman suffering a broken leg is hardly a bloody tragedy as the headline would suggest.

Many of these elephants were trained for jobs in logging but have since been made 'redundant'. They are dependant on humans and I dont believe they could easily be released into the wild.

A better solution needs to be found for these animals.

What the hell are you talking about? She has 2 clean breaks in each leg with titanium plates needed in both legs! A young attractive woman (from the photo) is scarred physically and probably mentally for life, this is their honeymoon for God's sake! And maybe she has lost 100% mobility and her positive body image for life. I hold back a worthy insult for you as it may get my post deleted, but how close do you think they were from being killed? All because the owner does not give a flying f*** about whether you or me or any of her customers who are gullible enough to take an elephant ride live or die. She is too mean and uncaring to release Captain to a sanctuary or have him put down, and buy a replacement when elephants must be 2 a penny in Thailand! She should be put down rather than Captain,

Edited September 23, 2011 by LivinginKata
flame removed

[sfbandung]

None of you know ANYTHING about elephants.

Why do you write except to criticise something that you know NOTHING about

I know they're really big and scary.

So I do know something about them.

[ableguy]

What a horrifying story & I hope the couple at least get full compensation for their medical expenses. I wonder if there are any regulations to cover this industry. Seems like they are able to operate with impunity although they must be paying someone. It is widely known elephants can suffer from depression & little wonder given the conditions they are forced to live & work in here in Phuket. As usual the owner does not seem willing to accept any responsibility & pointing the finger at the mahout for Captain's previous rampage.

Incidents such as this & in other industries will continue forever & a day, with tragic consequences, until business owners are forced to accept responsibility for the actions within their companies.

Valentine are there any regulations in this country that people follow ???????

[Valentine]

What a horrifying story & I hope the couple at least get full compensation for their medical expenses. I wonder if there are any regulations to cover this industry. Seems like they are able to operate with impunity although they must be paying someone. It is widely known elephants can suffer from depression & little wonder given the conditions they are forced to live & work in here in Phuket. As usual the owner does not seem willing to accept any responsibility & pointing the finger at the mahout for Captain's previous rampage.

Incidents such as this & in other industries will continue forever & a day, with tragic consequences, until business owners are forced to accept responsibility for the actions within their companies.

Valentine are there any regulations in this country that people follow ???????

If the regulations are in place at least there is a mechanism for people to lay charges or get civil cases to court. Can a civil case proceed if no law has been broken? I realise many do not follow regulations but Phuket is rapidly becoming "the wild west". At least in the movies the bad guys get their come uppance in the end.

[blackthorn2005]

This happens a lot. A couple of times / year.

Why do people continue to ride elephants?

Sit on the beach instead.

Sit on the beach.. and get hit by a jet ski or someone parascending!

[monspencer]

This happens a lot. A couple of times / year.

Why do people continue to ride elephants?

Sit on the beach instead.

Sit on the beach instead...just don't hire a jetski!!!

What an extremely lucky couple. It could have been so much worse.

As a Travel Agent, I trust the wife will be advising her future clients of what not to do, when they come to Thailand

[cowslip]

A woman suffering a broken leg is hardly a bloody tragedy as the headline would suggest.

Many of these elephants were trained for jobs in logging but have since been made 'redundant'. They are dependant on humans and I dont believe they could easily be released into the wild.

A better solution needs to be found for these animals.

There is another solution ... elephant sanctuaries. Like the one just outside of Lampang - albeit that when I visited some years ago they did give elephant rides.

But whilst there is no other employment for those involved in the exploitation of these beasts , then things like this will happen.

Solution? - Sanctuaries cost money - and their is little or no will in Thailand to spend money on animals welfare.

As for "belong in the wild" - most animals once "domesticated" or "tamed" cannot be released into the wild. Even if this was possible - where would you release them? Elephants habitat is under threat everywhere so simply elegising a load of animals into the wild that don't no how to live there and haver no fear of humans would be unleashing a bio-disaster.

[lounger]

Why don't people buy insurance? That's what it's there for......the unexpected. And surely, the camp is licensed and thus has insurance coverage, too? The Gazette should do more than a 'happy ending' story like this and start to do some investigative journalism - and while they are at it, not use terms such as tragedy which implies loss of life. Horror would be more appropriate.

I cant see why you quibble with this use of tragedy. If you want to be accurate though a tragedy is something horrendous that is inevitable. Was it inevitable that captain went into an attack. I think maybe given time it was and still is. If you believe this event was a one off unpredictable event then horror would be more appropriate. Traditionally tragedy was a performance or play and as such the end is ordained, and so is inevitable.