Why Are 'Common' Tropical Plants Not Available Here?

[F1fanatic]

Coming from the (cold) UK, I was really looking forward to enjoying the 'tropical' plants that were treated as annuals there (unless you had a greenhouse or conservatory) growing happily in my Thailand garden.

Unfortunately, living on Phuket, I've found that those 'tropical' plants are not available here - and the few that are, are not 'good' varieties.

One can buy Gardenias, but they are obviously not the 'best' variety as they rarely flower. Marguerittes? Forget it, haven't seen any. Fuschias, ditto. Impatiens ditto.

I could go on and on, but you get the point.....

Phuket is a 'wealthy' island, so why is it impossible to find anything other than the 'bog standard' plants sold in EVERY 'garden centre'?

Edited September 23, 2011 by F1fanatic

[sbk]

Fuschias and impatiens don't like high humidity, heat or direct sunlight. I have a gardenia bush that is about 10 years old at the back of my house got a cutting from my MIL. I suspect that is the more common way plants get propagated. Get to know a neighbor who has a lovely garden and see if you can get cuttings.

Plants that do very well are hibiscus (of which there are many colors, both single and double flowered) ixora, gardenia, portulaca, cannas, gingers, frangipani, ylang ylang, vining plants like Rangoon creeper, morning glory, passionflower etc etc

There are many beautiful flowering plants that do well in the South, do what I did and visit homes with lovely gardens and buy gardening books that better explain the plants and their needs.

Consider visiting the gardening thread on the Samui forum, the growing conditions are nearly identical if the seasons aren't timed the same.

Edited September 24, 2011 by sbk
link added

[samuijimmy]

Fuschias and impatiens don't like high humidity, heat or direct sunlight. I have a gardenia bush that is about 10 years old at the back of my house got a cutting from my MIL. I suspect that is the more common way plants get propagated. Get to know a neighbor who has a lovely garden and see if you can get cuttings.

Plants that do very well are hibiscus (of which there are many colors, both single and double flowered) ixora, gardenia, portulaca, cannas, gingers, frangipani, ylang ylang, vining plants like Rangoon creeper, morning glory, passionflower etc etc

There are many beautiful flowering plants that do well in the South, do what I did and visit homes with lovely gardens and buy gardening books that better explain the plants and their needs.

Consider visiting the gardening thread on the Samui forum, the growing conditions are nearly identical if the seasons aren't timed the same.

SBK is correct here: I'll add my two bits worth.....

There are varying degrees of "Tropical Climates", I would say southern Thailand is at the high end, and northern Thailand getting towards the lower end....

Tropical, semi tropical, sub tropical... to temperate & what is often referred to as Mediteranian climates...etc...

Also known as climate zones, which depending on which country you are from usually ranges from 1 to 10.... my guess would be we are nine or ten.

It comes down to night temperatures and how cool it gets... on Samui and I would guess in Phuket, it rarely gets below about 22C.... Northern Thailand it gets down to about 15c or so.... that's a big difference for what you can grow ! (oh how nice that would be sometimes!!

Often I see plants growing in gardens around the islands or my travels around the south, and think that's nice, but can never manage to find at the local garden centres...

Therefore one has to be bold and ask for cuttings, (do a swap for something else) I find the Thai's more than willing to do that...

Many plants are not that hard to grow from cuttings or divisions, (not all mind you)... Some do need specialist environment, only a nursery can provide, say for grafting etc)

...when making cuttings say of Hibiscus you need pencil sized pieces cut in one to two foot lengths, and stick them in the ground...(better done in rainy season) or else cover them with shade clothe and sprinkle them with water a few times a day... After a week or two, the wilted leaves, (most of which you take off by the way,) will perk up... after a month or so, they will actually show signs of new growth....and have roots!

In the case of Gardenias, which I have not tried, the cuttings would probably need to be smaller, and put them in a pot of sandy-ish soil perhaps with some coconut fibre... keep leaves sprinkled with water and keep out of full sun...

Take off most of the leaves....make a clean cut on any cuttings you do... It's a case of trial and error... but easy enough to try, if you have a bit of a "green thumb"

As for things like Fuchsias, Hydrangeas etc, I saw these down in KL this summer, which surprised me... But I think they are plants like some you see in southern Thailand, come from the cooler northern areas of Chaing Mai... in KL's case they would come from the Cameron highlands about 200 kms north of KL... a whole different climate world.

Cooler nights are the secret... so if you want some of these plants, you may have to consider going north!

Hope that helps a little... as SBK suggests ask in the gardening section of the Islands forum!....just don't tell anyone you are from Phuket... just kidding!

[xen]

I would agree with the previous replies but i think the reason that many plants that are common to us and are not found in Garden centres is that they will sell plants they can make money on and plants that can be propagated by cutting are not worth their investment in time and expense. However anything that is propagated by more complicated methods, need grafting or has PVR is more likely to worthwhile for a owner of a garden centre.

Hydrangeas are normally and very easily progated by cutting at pruning time. I would have thought Impatients would have survived in Phuket - I have seen them doing okay around Bangkok . Just out of interest ,there are quiet a few impatients spp. native to the mountians around Chaing Mai - mainly the parrot varieties . Queen Sirikit gardens nursery (Chaing Mai) had some for purchase when i was there in May.

[samuijimmy]

I would agree with the previous replies but i think the reason that many plants that are common to us and are not found in Garden centres is that they will sell plants they can make money on and plants that can be propagated by cutting are not worth their investment in time and expense. However anything that is propagated by more complicated methods, need grafting or has PVR is more likely to worthwhile for a owner of a garden centre.

Hydrangeas are normally and very easily progated by cutting at pruning time. I would have thought Impatients would have survived in Phuket - I have seen them doing okay around Bangkok . Just out of interest ,there are quiet a few impatients spp. native to the mountians around Chaing Mai - mainly the parrot varieties . Queen Sirikit gardens nursery (Chaing Mai) had some for purchase when i was there in May.

I think you are partly correct here, Xen... Some plants like Impatiens, Petunias, will survive, but normally only for short periods.... perhaps two or three months from my experience, here in the south... Have those you got in CM survived?...

A few "annual"plants that seem to do well are Coleous, Portulaca, Marigolds, Zinneas...

BKK again in a little different.. (Micro climates, can be found in most regions....That can make a difference... for example if higher elevation, it will probably cool done more at night or other factors...of nature at work!... )

Roses here in the south, generally don't do well, but then occasionally I see wonderful specimens, where I would least expect... Good management or good luck???, I am not sure

Agreed, the garden centres are going to sell things that will move and they can make money on.... (same anywhere!)... But I think most people could not be bothered to try propagating, them selves.

[F1fanatic]

Thank you everybody for taking the time to reply.

I'm sure you're right that Phuket is just too hot and humid for most of the 'tropical' plants that were planted as annuals in the UK.

I still don't understand though why it is impossible to buy good, named varieties of plants that should be fine here and, why pretty much all the garden centres sell the same (un-named) varieties of plants!

Having lived here a while, I'm slowly learning how to 'take care' of those available, but am frustrated at the lack of different types of plants/shrubs available in 'garden centres'.

Gardenias are a good example. They're easy to buy here and I have four, BUT only one flowers frequently - the others provide the odd flower every now and again... I can only assume that one is a good variety, whilst the others aren't.... And yes, I water them all every day and they are all in mostly shady positions.

Edit - funnily enough samuijimmy, my friends are amazed at how well my roses flower! It took a while, but eventually I found the ideal spots in the garden.

Edited September 25, 2011 by F1fanatic

[xen]

F1Fanatic , i am wondering if you used a little potash on your gardenias if that would improve your flowering. Also have you checked your ph , gardenias usually like iy slightly acidic . Also a little magnesium may help - epsom salts disolved in water and watered in may help. But don't overdo it tho.

Also most of the plants you have mentioned are more warm climate or sub tropical. I would be looking at things like some of the wonderful crotons, gingers ,etc that are truely tropical.

That is one of the wonderful things about gardening is the trial and error of seeing what will grow . I am also amazed how well Roses grow in Thailand - with no significant black spot or other fungal diseases or even scales.

Samuijimmy , Coleus , portulacca and zinnias would be good. Surprises me a little about the marigolds but they are pretty tough little buggers they way they can keep on coming up year after year. . Californian poppies and Celosia should also do well too. Have you tried them ?

[F1fanatic]

F1Fanatic , i am wondering if you used a little potash on your gardenias if that would improve your flowering. Also have you checked your ph , gardenias usually like iy slightly acidic . Also a little magnesium may help - epsom salts disolved in water and watered in may help. But don't overdo it tho.

Also most of the plants you have mentioned are more warm climate or sub tropical. I would be looking at things like some of the wonderful crotons, gingers ,etc that are truely tropical.

That is one of the wonderful things about gardening is the trial and error of seeing what will grow . I am also amazed how well Roses grow in Thailand - with no significant black spot or other fungal diseases or even scales.

Samuijimmy , Coleus , portulacca and zinnias would be good. Surprises me a little about the marigolds but they are pretty tough little buggers they way they can keep on coming up year after year. . Californian poppies and Celosia should also do well too. Have you tried them ?

Where can one buy potash and epsom salts? Still odd though that one flowers freely whilst the rest don't.... One of the 'poor' specimens is only a metre away from the 'good' Gardenia!

Agree that coleus thrive here - as long as kept watered. I haven't seen Californian poppies for sale.

[itishothere]

I have a lot to learn about gardening, but I suspect simple economics plays a part in the problem.

Most garden centers I have seen have pretty ordinary stuff. I see a lot of it growing wild. It is easily maintained and - importantly I think - grows quickly. The more 'exotic' or pleasant to look at stuff is available, on occasion, but at a price! I think that growing a cutting or a seed, looking after it (and its' soil/watering/nutrient problems) but having to wait a couple of years before you can sell it just doesn't make economic sense.

I have a friend who is a landscape architect on Samui. He gets all the easy stuff here, and replaces it 6 months later if it doesn't look right. But the minute he wants something more unusual, he has to order it from Bangkok. Supply and demand I suppose?

[xen]

F1Fanatic,

I am not too sure where in Puhket you can buy it but most garden supply places should have potash either as potash sulphate or potash carbonate. Epsom salts is magnesium sulphate the same as in bath salts such as Radox and if the gardenia leaves are showing signs of yellow along the veins then a dose of Trace elements may help. I am afraid it is a matter of experimentation. Also is your gardenia near concrete because that may affect the ph from the lime in the concrete although a rusty tin can burried is a cheap way of giving the plants Iron which may be unavailable to the gardenia if the ph is too alkaline.

Also there are 3 main types or species of gardenia and i have found the large leaf type doesn't flower as heavily as the medium size leaf variety (Florida & Magnifica) . There is also a ground cover type of shrub gardenia called radicans. I have also found that giving them a prune after flowering encourages better flower production later on.

Hope that is of some help.

[F1fanatic]

F1Fanatic,

I am not too sure where in Puhket you can buy it but most garden supply places should have potash either as potash sulphate or potash carbonate. Epsom salts is magnesium sulphate the same as in bath salts such as Radox and if the gardenia leaves are showing signs of yellow along the veins then a dose of Trace elements may help. I am afraid it is a matter of experimentation. Also is your gardenia near concrete because that may affect the ph from the lime in the concrete although a rusty tin can burried is a cheap way of giving the plants Iron which may be unavailable to the gardenia if the ph is too alkaline.

Also there are 3 main types or species of gardenia and i have found the large leaf type doesn't flower as heavily as the medium size leaf variety (Florida & Magnifica) . There is also a ground cover type of shrub gardenia called radicans. I have also found that giving them a prune after flowering encourages better flower production later on.

Hope that is of some help.

Yes, thank you.

None of my Gardenias have yellow veins, but two are planted near concrete. Funnily enough the 'good' Gardenia is one of them! I will try burying a rusty tin can to see if that helps.

Itishothere - I'm sure you're right that the plants sold are those that are easy to propagate, but as I said before Phuket is a 'wealthy' island and I am suprised that nobody seems to have seen the 'gap in the market' for different plants and 'named' varieties.

A few years ago I bought a Stephanotis which, at the time, were sold by many garden centres. Unfortunately I was new here and didn't provide the right conditions so it died. I now have the ideal spot, but cannot find one anywhere - v annoying. They all seem to sell the same thing at the same time....

[itishothere]

....... Phuket is a 'wealthy' island and I am suprised that nobody seems to have seen the 'gap in the market' for different plants and 'named' varieties.

....... They all seem to sell the same thing at the same time....

Indeed very frustrating. Samui is wealthy too. Well, it is expensive, so I suspect there is a fair amount of wealth around. But the business models over here don't always fit my way of thinking. Here, if there is a successful 7-11 on the corner, then it is very likely that another will open within a year just 100m further down the street.

PS .... so maybe the answer lies in your very own venture?

Edited September 26, 2011 by itishothere

[F1fanatic]

....... Phuket is a 'wealthy' island and I am suprised that nobody seems to have seen the 'gap in the market' for different plants and 'named' varieties.

....... They all seem to sell the same thing at the same time....

Indeed very frustrating. Samui is wealthy too. Well, it is expensive, so I suspect there is a fair amount of wealth around. But the business models over here don't always fit my way of thinking. Here, if there is a successful 7-11 on the corner, then it is very likely that another will open within a year just 100m further down the street.

PS .... so maybe the answer lies in your very own venture?

I've noticed the same thing - a restaurant/bar/7-11 opens and is successful, and lo and behold, lots more open around the successful enterprise....

Unfortunately I have absolutely no interest in getting involved in any business here (!), but wish someone braver than me, would!

Quick edit - I have taken cuttings from my 'good' Gardenia today, so fingers crossed they establish and I can replace those that rarely flower.

Edited September 27, 2011 by F1fanatic

[sbk]

You might also consider air layering, which is how I propagated my gardenia bush from my MIL.

[itishothere]

You might also consider air layering ...

Makes sense now! As a kid my Dad used to do this. I always thought the plant had hurt itself or something.

But when you think about it, the plant is conned into re-rooting, and still gets nutrients and water like the rest of the plant. Not seen it over here (maybe not looking), but got to be worth a try.

[samuijimmy]

Good discussion going on here!

It's always hard in listing plants, after my last post, things like Cosmos came to mind... easy to "borrow" some seed when the timing is right!

Yes, Cockscomb too... usually does well and seeds itself... usually not where you want it to grow! Balsum, also goes crazy doing the same thing!

California poppies, I have never seen growing here, but should be easy to get some seed, from friends in the "west" if not available here (I have never seen) ... they would certainly need a well drained even a rocky area.... to take hold...and consequently reseed themselves ....

As for Epson salts, very hard to find.... but it is available in big bags from suppliers in BKK... I am lucky enough to have a hydroponic vegetable grower down the road, so managed to twist his arm to let buy a kilo or two..

I was going to mention Air layering, but having tried that, without much / any success.... I thought it would be a little beyond most peoples, ability to give air layered plants the TLC they need...especially when scattered around the garden.....(one needs to keep the media used around the area where the cut is made, moist)... one tends to forget which plants were done, as they become "out of sight and out of mind"... Perhaps one or two plants in a pot that needs daily watering / sprinkling might work?

I remember on my first trip to Pai,(north of Chaing Mai) seeing wonderful Cleomes blooming, in January... but have never seen the "cultivated varieties" here on Samui or in the south for that matter, but there is I assume native kind which does not quite make the same show!

Edited September 28, 2011 by samuijimmy

[F1fanatic]

You might also consider air layering, which is how I propagated my gardenia bush from my MIL.

Thanks SBK - I'll give it a try if my cuttings don't work. Cuttings are a LOT easier!

[F1fanatic]

Good discussion going on here!

It's always hard in listing plants, after my last post, things like Cosmos came to mind... easy to "borrow" some seed when the timing is right!

Yes, Cockscomb too... usually does well and seeds itself... usually not where you want it to grow! Balsum, also goes crazy doing the same thing!

California poppies, I have never seen growing here, but should be easy to get some seed, from friends in the "west" if not available here (I have never seen) ... they would certainly need a well drained even a rocky area.... to take hold...and consequently reseed themselves ....

As for Epson salts, very hard to find.... but it is available in big bags from suppliers in BKK... I am lucky enough to have a hydroponic vegetable grower down the road, so managed to twist his arm to let buy a kilo or two..

I was going to mention Air layering, but having tried that, without much / any success.... I thought it would be a little beyond most peoples, ability to give air layered plants the TLC they need...especially when scattered around the garden.....(one needs to keep the media used around the area where the cut is made, moist)... one tends to forget which plants were done, as they become "out of sight and out of mind"... Perhaps one or two plants in a pot that needs daily watering / sprinkling might work?

I remember on my first trip to Pai,(north of Chaing Mai) seeing wonderful Cleomes blooming, in January... but have never seen the "cultivated varieties" here on Samui or in the south for that matter, but there is I assume native kind which does not quite make the same show!

Cosmos is a great suggestion! I'll ask friends in the UK to send me some seeds.

[samuijimmy]

Good discussion going on here!

It's always hard in listing plants, after my last post, things like Cosmos came to mind... easy to "borrow" some seed when the timing is right!

Yes, Cockscomb too... usually does well and seeds itself... usually not where you want it to grow! Balsum, also goes crazy doing the same thing!

California poppies, I have never seen growing here, but should be easy to get some seed, from friends in the "west" if not available here (I have never seen) ... they would certainly need a well drained even a rocky area.... to take hold...and consequently reseed themselves ....

As for Epson salts, very hard to find.... but it is available in big bags from suppliers in BKK... I am lucky enough to have a hydroponic vegetable grower down the road, so managed to twist his arm to let buy a kilo or two..

I was going to mention Air layering, but having tried that, without much / any success.... I thought it would be a little beyond most peoples, ability to give air layered plants the TLC they need...especially when scattered around the garden.....(one needs to keep the media used around the area where the cut is made, moist)... one tends to forget which plants were done, as they become "out of sight and out of mind"... Perhaps one or two plants in a pot that needs daily watering / sprinkling might work?

I remember on my first trip to Pai,(north of Chaing Mai) seeing wonderful Cleomes blooming, in January... but have never seen the "cultivated varieties" here on Samui or in the south for that matter, but there is I assume native kind which does not quite make the same show!

Cosmos is a great suggestion! I'll ask friends in the UK to send me some seeds.

ah! just so you know, it's not the white or pink Cosmos, but the yellow or orange ones, which one sees growing here.... smaller flowers, but quite nice... slightly different growth habit...

"Western types" may be worth a try.... as I say, if you see the local plant ready to seed, it's fairly obvious when they are ready, just scatter... ! You some times see them along road sides... so you don't need to enter someones garden to get!

I did try Nasturtiums once, which I brought with me, but the quickly fizzled! before they flowered!

[samuijimmy]

You might also consider air layering, which is how I propagated my gardenia bush from my MIL.

Thanks SBK - I'll give it a try if my cuttings don't work. Cuttings are a LOT easier!

I got my neighbours to show me how they do their Gardenia propagation, this morning....

No need to Air Layer, they just take pencil sized branch, 12 to 15" long & cut just below a nod, and strip off most of the leaves and all the flowers!

Since they have quite a few of a good flowering Gardenia , this is how they do it...(too poor to buy them) They have good sized flowers and masses of them right now...

Oh they used Vitamin B! and dipped the cuttings.... I am not convinced that helps.... I was actually surprised to see them do that....

Now all you need to do is find a "mother" plant

I now have two cuttings about 12' tall, so will expect them to be rooted in a few weeks....

[F1fanatic]

You might also consider air layering, which is how I propagated my gardenia bush from my MIL.

Thanks SBK - I'll give it a try if my cuttings don't work. Cuttings are a LOT easier!

I got my neighbours to show me how they do their Gardenia propagation, this morning....

No need to Air Layer, they just take pencil sized branch, 12 to 15" long & cut just below a nod, and strip off most of the leaves and all the flowers!

Since they have quite a few of a good flowering Gardenia , this is how they do it...(too poor to buy them) They have good sized flowers and masses of them right now...

Oh they used Vitamin B! and dipped the cuttings.... I am not convinced that helps.... I was actually surprised to see them do that....

Now all you need to do is find a "mother" plant

I now have two cuttings about 12' tall, so will expect them to be rooted in a few weeks....

Good luck with your cuttings. My cuttings that I put in water a few days ago are (so far) doing better than those planted in pots.

Time will tell.

I'd be interested to hear from any other 'keen' gardeners in or around Rawai as perhaps we could exchange cuttings.

[ningawomba]

F1 fanatic - good luck with all your cuttings , i have just rooted some bizzy lizzies in water , only takes about 6 days to get the roots growing , i bought a large one from the plant market ,Pattaya , and took a dozen from that , you are right though , some plants here are very difficult to find , it has taken me 6 months to find a bottle-brush plant ( callistemon ) so i took some of the lower branches as cuttings , don't know if i will be lucky on this one or not , i have just grown my first Plumeria from seed too, only one took from 12 seeds but i think the soil was too wet , i'll try again ( plenty of seeds about on the trees .) trying to source a bird of paradise plant , strelitzia , lots of Heliconias here of many types but not the Strelitzia , i just keep trying , accepting my successes with my failiures , great fun .