Whose Work Permit Is It?

[Bravesfan]

Ok, here's the situation- I have been on a work permit for one year now in Krabi and am accepting a job offer in Bangkok, which means changing the details on my work permit (getting a letter of offer from my new employer, company details, etc.) in order to stay legally employed in Thailand. The issue for me is my current employer insists that the actual physical document that is my work permit is the property of the company, and not mine. Is this true? Basically, he doesn't want it me to take it with me.

What are my rights when it comes to a work permit? I am currently employed as a chef at a resort, but the company name and registration are mine. Basically, I am sub-contracted to the resort. Does this change the ownership of the work permit? Does it even matter? Am I issued with a new work permit when I go to the office in Bangkok to make the changes, or do I keep my current one?

Thanks for any assistance on this topic. I know the "rules" (term used loosely) when dealing with immigration issues in Thailand can be hazy, but any advice would be helpful.

Cheers!

[Colabamumbai]

I have never returned or handed in a work permit to the labour office it is not required, although I have reported to them that I have left a job, I am currently in posession of two work permits one from Korat, which is not valid anymore and one from Roi-Et which is currently valid. it belongs to you and not the owner of the business. Im sure some will disagree.

[TerryLH]

You'll get a new WP from the labor office in the area you'll be working.

[Soutpeel]

Lets ask this question who ? supplied the paperwork and did the application to get the WP ...the resort or your own company....this will answer part of your question ?

Your post is not very clear about moving to the office in BKK, is this with the same company, if so cant see what the problem is, the current WP just needs the new business location put on it.

If its a new company chances are will need to start all over again and get a new WP.

[youreavinalaff]

Is it not right that work permits are issued by the provincial labour office. Therefore a work permit issued in Krabi cannot be transferred to Bangkok?

[Soutpeel]

Is it not right that work permits are issued by the provincial labour office. Therefore a work permit issued in Krabi cannot be transferred to Bangkok?

In theroy it is possible to transfer a WP but this usually turns out to be easier to go and get a new Non-imm visa and start again in practice.

[prighas]

When I transferred my employment, all I did was cancel the work permit I had with my previous employer. The labor department gave me a paper that certifies it was cancelled.

Using that, I then asked my new employer to arrange the new work permit for me.

When that was completed, and 6 months later when my business visa expired, the new employer arranged for its renewal based on their legal documents. I did not have to leave the country at all.

[youreavinalaff]

Prighas....

Were you on extension of stay or a visa?

If you were on an extension based on work and your work permit was cancelled and the Labour Department gave you a receipt you should have gone to Immigration too.

You were lucky. You were on overstay and nobody noticed.

I just checked and work permits are issued by province. They cannot be transferred to another province.

[Bravesfan]

Thanks everyone. Since I am changing provinces and changing employers, I'm guessing that a new work permit will be issued. I already know my new employer is in the process of putting together the paperwork required for a work permit, I just wasn't sure if it was just a matter of taking my old work permit into the labor department and changing the details in it. I've heard so many different things, just wanted to find some clarity on the issue!

If there is a way I can do this without having to re-apply for a new Non-B visa and leave the country, that would be advantageous. And more cost effective... And less time consuming (???). I dunno. Guess I shouldn't be too worried about a piece of paper with my picture in it. Didn't like that suit anyway...

Thanks again, if anyone else has any advice on the best way to tackle the switching-employer-and-province-work-permit situation I'm all ears.

[Mario2008]

You will have to cancel your WP and permisison to stay with a letter from your employer stating the last day of employment. For 1,900 baht you can get 7 days to leave the country (or to obtain a new permission to stay if you get the new WP).

[Arkady]

Under the 2008 Working of Aliens Act foreign workers are specifically permitted to retain their old work permits for their records after they have been cancelled. Under the previous law WPs had to be returned to the Labour Ministry. This implies that the WP is now considered by the ministry as the employee's property, at least after it has been cancelled, whereas it was previously considered the ministry's property. There has never been any law or regulation that suggested the WP was the employer's property. I would challenge the employer to cite the precise provision of the 2008 Act or a ministerial regulation supporting his view, if you think it matters. I guarantee he won't be able to find one but he will probably just get into a xenophobic rage because foreigners are not supposed to know Thai law.

Anyway, you can only add a new job into a WP if you are continuing in your primary job and adding a second job. For a new primary job the Labour Ministry will issue a new WP.

[plumeria]

Under the 2008 Working of Aliens Act foreign workers are specifically permitted to retain their old work permits for their records after they have been cancelled. Under the previous law WPs had to be returned to the Labour Ministry. This implies that the WP is now considered by the ministry as the employee's property, at least after it has been cancelled, whereas it was previously considered the ministry's property. There has never been any law or regulation that suggested the WP was the employer's property. I would challenge the employer to cite the precise provision of the 2008 Act or a ministerial regulation supporting his view, if you think it matters. I guarantee he won't be able to find one but he will probably just get into a xenophobic rage because foreigners are not supposed to know Thai law.

Anyway, you can only add a new job into a WP if you are continuing in your primary job and adding a second job. For a new primary job the Labour Ministry will issue a new WP.

Work permits are job-specific and location-specific.

Only once did I get one which gave me the entire capitol as my work location. Usually it's very precise address.

I did manage to get amendments to it to allow more jobs but again in the same city.

So although you may be able to hang onto the book, it's quite meaningless except as a record.

New job and/or new location = new work permit or change to the old one.

But I haven't needed one in a long, long time so my experience may be historical and not totally relevant to the present.

I still have all my former work permits and nobody ever asked for them (such as the employer).

If they can't force you to hand it over because they've still got some of your money in their hands, then just say sorry and smile.

[Foggy Bottom]

Never forget the "local interpretation of law and rules" factor, nor the door-opening possibility of the "distressed foreigner" approach.

Example -

A decade ago I had an existing work permit as director of my own limited company, and accepted an (unrelated) post teaching at a government university. The local labour office were happy to add the university job to the work permit. A couple of years later, the work permit was changed to remove the own-company entry, leaving the work permit valid for the university job exclusively. Later still, on the same day, the university job was removed and a press and media employment inserted.

However ... when initially switching from university to press role, I took guidance from the documents issued by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs Press Division, and applied for the work permit at the Bangkok One Stop Centre despite living up-country. They fought me and the Ministry, tooth and nail, that the work permit could not be issued / amended for the press role at the Bangkok office. Eventually after a 10-day running battle, they capitulated and said they would do it if I could give them an address in Bangkok where I was staying (they accepted a hotel where I had stayed the year before and whose business card I had in my wallet). They then told me to have Chiang Mai labour office transfer the work permit registration to them.

Chiang Mai said they could not and that Bangkok had to do it. I invoked CM's Director of the employment and labour office there and she took the task on personally. She was promised it would be done in 2 weeks if the work permit was sent to Bangkok by her. Two months later it had still not been returned and she was livid - she exploded at them over the phone and invoked numerous Minister's names including the then Prime, and his MP sister. A week later I had the work permit back, duly transferred to CM registration, and with an "All Provinces" work location - based on a conversation with the CM director stating that if I was South East Asian Foreign Correspondent, then that meant I had to work not only in all SE Asian countries, but in all Thai Provinces - she'd agreed and fought for the all provinces endorsement because of it.

Several years after that, as a family we moved to the North East. The labour office there took ten minutes to transfer the work permit to the new address there - no fuss, no arguments, no fee.

I still have the work permit - it shows all the jobs and addresses and employers I ever had in Thailand, plus all the change of details stamps etc. These entries can be made if you simply explain yourself and your needs and request help to do them, rather than insisting they are done. That may be the key to achieving the simplest solution, and never be afraid to escalate issues that arise - many senior staff know the rules are antiquated and need changed - if you get them on your side, life will be much easier.

[sirchai]

Thanks everyone. Since I am changing provinces and changing employers, I'm guessing that a new work permit will be issued. I already know my new employer is in the process of putting together the paperwork required for a work permit, I just wasn't sure if it was just a matter of taking my old work permit into the labor department and changing the details in it. I've heard so many different things, just wanted to find some clarity on the issue!

If there is a way I can do this without having to re-apply for a new Non-B visa and leave the country, that would be advantageous. And more cost effective... And less time consuming (???). I dunno. Guess I shouldn't be too worried about a piece of paper with my picture in it. Didn't like that suit anyway...

Thanks again, if anyone else has any advice on the best way to tackle the switching-employer-and-province-work-permit situation I'm all ears.

Please be aware that your visa will be cancelled on the last day you've worked. You can obtain a 7 days visa at any Immigration for 1,900baht on the same day your visa is being cancelled.

Please take the visa issue very serious. You'll have to apply for a new work permit when changing the province, which might be a lot of paperwork again. Good luck from lower north east !!!