Who Is To Blame?

[iainiain101]

In 2005 it was the , 'an official oppened the dam without authorisation', yet parts of the town flooed 3 times that year.

I personally have allways been highly critical of the dams that seem to keep the river as a virtual lake during the dry season so as to allow the scorpion sight seeing boats to work. This stops the flow and causes huge silting.

We have all seen the pictures from historical Songkrans where you can walk across the river.

There must be regular heavy rains up hill from Chiang Mai, but when did the river get dammed for the scorpion boat business in relation to increased flooding?

Over to you older hands.

This is a seperate 'gripe' flood thread to keep away from the real emergency that is occcuring for a lot of us.

Iain

[MESmith]

Retribution from a higher authority for recent activities at Sacred Heart School?

[DavidOxon]

It's probably my fault... it usually is!

David

[NxaiPan]

neat question.

the flood area map produced post the 2005 CM floods (and reproduced in many posts in the last few days) highlights a simple fact that jumps off the page. The original site for CM within the moat was chosen 715 years ago to avoid the risk of floods.

Much subsequent development has overlooked this very real threat and as a direct consequence has to occasionally pay the price for being located on the Ping flood plain.

Human action or inaction; damming, dredging, wall building etc do little in the long run to address the fundamental problem. The function of flood plains is to absorb excess capacity during flood events.

Obviously it is way too late to turn back the clock in CM or in any other flood plain located city in the world. Millions of people and billions of $ worth of property are on floodplains and cannot be simply shifted.

Massive problem, no easy solution. That old cliche concerning "rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic", unfortunately sums up much "flood prevention" engineering.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I would blame God for being incompetent and clearly not qualified to be creating planets on his own. Now we're stuck with his sloppy work.

Edited September 29, 2011 by WinnieTheKhwai

[realthaideal]

I have a friend who interviewed the CM Mayor recently right around the last 2 times it nearly flooded. He made a good point that when it doesn't flood people don't pay attention and forget about it, but if it does flood, he gets the blame. Seems pretty thankless a job, if you ask me.

I understand wanting to assign blame, but overall I've been impressed by how they've handled things this year. The water's been right up to the brim, but not over a couple of times already. But this is different.

But you have to remember that we had a large soaking just before this, extending all the way up north. And then we've had the ground probably at saturation levels for awhile now. So... this is what you get.

Hahaha ! And .... just cope. I'm gonna go move some furniture now, just in case.

[surayu]

...

I agree, and if it's wrong, then i am sure it must to be a falang!

[Drew Aitch]

I would blame God for being incompetent and clearly not qualified to be creating planets on his own. Now we're stuck with his sloppy work.

Well said WTK. I agree, it's no good blaming man for the state of the planet. At the end of the day, he's only trying to fix what's not working, broken even. If this orb on which we live is really such a gift, a Garden of Eden perhaps, then surely mankind wouldn't need to try and control the earth, wind, and fire that surrounds it in order to stay alive. Would he?

The thing that's always confused me is this; if there was really something 'living, alive, floating around' that truly created this planet, let alone the cosmos, then why did it take 6 long days to complete a job the size of a tiny grain of sand (on the scope of the universe of course)?

And then our man above had to rest on the seventh day which proves that even God's get burnt out with too much physical labour, and that's only if the story tellers are accurate in their narratives of course! Then there's the question of 'why the rush? I mean, was there a deadline to complete this sphere of ours?

Earth – the Rolls Royce of Planets

So, if the planet Earth was a car it'd be about as popular as those Old Russian Skoda's! Remember them gentle reader? I mean, it rattles and shakes (earthquakes), leaks and floods like crazy (tsunamis, downpours, flash flooding), spontaneously blows up (volcanoes), freezes over, over-heats, and if that little lots not bad enough, it violently throws debris and stuff all over the place at the drop of a hat with its murdering and incredibly powerful gale force winds.

Eeee, I think someone needs to go back to the drawing board and rethink the design and give this ole globe of ours a full makeover! Only this time, let's hope the health & safety Gods keep an eye on construction

Aitch

Edited September 29, 2011 by Drew Aitch

[surayu]

then why did it take 6 long days to complete a job the size of a tiny grain of sand

That's a good observation, maybe it's thai and not falang as i thought

[veryruay]

Yes, Farangs are to blame. Too many farangs in Thailand enjoying cheap luxury! And this is the sign of warning !! LOL

[Throatwobbler]

then why did it take 6 long days to complete a job the size of a tiny grain of sand

That's a good observation, maybe it's thai and not falang as i thought

Remember God only made the rest of the universe on the 4th day. If he made such a bad job as us and our planet on the first 3 days Imagine how bad the rest of the univerese must be be when he only had 3 days to finish an infinetly large order.

Back to the original question of who's to blame. Well I think it's the weather. Remember this Rainy season started very early and we've had an awful amount of rain. I for one am surprised it's taken this long to have flooding problems.

[rodcourt49]

then why did it take 6 long days to complete a job the size of a tiny grain of sand

That's a good observation, maybe it's thai and not falang as i thought

Remember God only made the rest of the universe on the 4th day. If he made such a bad job as us and our planet on the first 3 days Imagine how bad the rest of the univerese must be be when he only had 3 days to finish an infinetly large order.

Back to the original question of who's to blame. Well I think it's the weather. Remember this Rainy season started very early and we've had an awful amount of rain. I for one am surprised it's taken this long to have flooding problems.

..the "Nom God" wasn't very generous either when he got here!

[Loaded]

With so many of God's messengers in Chiang Mai, you would have thought they could have used their hotline to let him know the river was about to burst its banks. Maybe it was a message to tell them to get out of Chiang Mai and stop embarrassing him.

[CMX]

As pointed out when this thread was responsive rather than theological, avarice, associated with short-term self interest, is to blame.

Governments that try to prevent avarice from making bad long-term solutions (interfering with profit) are called overbearing, nanny societies, and worse.

**

However, the mayor has apologized for allowing the people of CM to suffer the floods, so from the point of view of 'face,' nobody else (Thai) should be blamed. He has taken the onus.

**

Note that the U.S. with all its resources cannot stop the Mississippi from great flooding - nor does it always function well in catastrophes, such as Hurricane Katrina. Similar emergency services have been lacking in the U.K., I have read, and I saw it in France, during the great heat wave, when 800 died. Given the resources here (you cannot do everything in a developing society) + the complexity of the problem (i.e. see 'old' flood map compared to the present situation) + landforms + rains plus changing weather patterns to come, well.....

In short, human failures of character and judgement take the dishonors, I suppose we all know. And that includes particularly all the developers who defy nature and those of us who pay them.

Edited September 30, 2011 by CMX

[KRS1]

Fellas...it floods and droughts somewhere in Thailand every single freaking year.

Get over the news and open your eyes...it's nothing new...this year was CNX's turn.

[jonwilly]

Question

Is it true that the floods only occur because of the Wier ?

No Wier no high water so No Flood ?

john

I know that Inflatable Wiers do exist, Low water high wier, lots of water very low or no wier. :jap:

[CMX]

Fellas...it floods and droughts somewhere in Thailand every single freaking year.

Get over the news and open your eyes...it's nothing new...this year was CNX's turn.

Certainly just complaining or whining gets nothing done, and there are things that we cannot prevent (aging and death being annoying examples).

Yet while true, it is equally true that we can plan and work against natural disasters in order to minimize their damage, and we can endorse governments to do so with our taxes.

Failure to do so = blame.

Mai pben rai isn't in it, except for fatalists. We're at what - 120 dead in the nation now? Eyes open, I'm not "getting over it," though of course much worse is going on in many places. Here, 'Blame' infers the possibility of improvement and why not?

[Loaded]

I think the Thais have done as good a job as possible this year considering their limited resources. The whole valley is a waterlogged sponge and dams are full. Where else can the water go?

I'm very concerned that this water is heading south and many Thais in the Chao Phra basin have already suffered terribly this year from floods. Few ordinary Thais have insurance policies or plastic cards to replace the things that have taken a lifetime to accumulate.

[paulchiangmai]

I would blame God for being incompetent and clearly not qualified to be creating planets on his own. Now we're stuck with his sloppy work.

Well said WTK. I agree, it's no good blaming man for the state of the planet. At the end of the day, he's only trying to fix what's not working, broken even. If this orb on which we live is really such a gift, a Garden of Eden perhaps, then surely mankind wouldn't need to try and control the earth, wind, and fire that surrounds it in order to stay alive. Would he?

The thing that's always confused me is this; if there was really something 'living, alive, floating around' that truly created this planet, let alone the cosmos, then why did it take 6 long days to complete a job the size of a tiny grain of sand (on the scope of the universe of course)?

And then our man above had to rest on the seventh day which proves that even God's get burnt out with too much physical labour, and that's only if the story tellers are accurate in their narratives of course! Then there's the question of 'why the rush? I mean, was there a deadline to complete this sphere of ours?

Earth – the Rolls Royce of Planets

So, if the planet Earth was a car it'd be about as popular as those Old Russian Skoda's! Remember them gentle reader? I mean, it rattles and shakes (earthquakes), leaks and floods like crazy (tsunamis, downpours, flash flooding), spontaneously blows up (volcanoes), freezes over, over-heats, and if that little lots not bad enough, it violently throws debris and stuff all over the place at the drop of a hat with its murdering and incredibly powerful gale force winds.

Eeee, I think someone needs to go back to the drawing board and rethink the design and give this ole globe of ours a full makeover! Only this time, let's hope the health & safety Gods keep an eye on construction

Aitch

Old Russian Skoda's? Used to be made in Checkoslovakia, now the Check Republic.

[uptheos]

I would blame God for being incompetent and clearly not qualified to be creating planets on his own. Now we're stuck with his sloppy work.

Well said WTK. I agree, it's no good blaming man for the state of the planet. At the end of the day, he's only trying to fix what's not working, broken even. If this orb on which we live is really such a gift, a Garden of Eden perhaps, then surely mankind wouldn't need to try and control the earth, wind, and fire that surrounds it in order to stay alive. Would he?

The thing that's always confused me is this; if there was really something 'living, alive, floating around' that truly created this planet, let alone the cosmos, then why did it take 6 long days to complete a job the size of a tiny grain of sand (on the scope of the universe of course)?

And then our man above had to rest on the seventh day which proves that even God's get burnt out with too much physical labour, and that's only if the story tellers are accurate in their narratives of course! Then there's the question of 'why the rush? I mean, was there a deadline to complete this sphere of ours?

Earth – the Rolls Royce of Planets

So, if the planet Earth was a car it'd be about as popular as those Old Russian Skoda's! Remember them gentle reader? I mean, it rattles and shakes (earthquakes), leaks and floods like crazy (tsunamis, downpours, flash flooding), spontaneously blows up (volcanoes), freezes over, over-heats, and if that little lots not bad enough, it violently throws debris and stuff all over the place at the drop of a hat with its murdering and incredibly powerful gale force winds.

Eeee, I think someone needs to go back to the drawing board and rethink the design and give this ole globe of ours a full makeover! Only this time, let's hope the health & safety Gods keep an eye on construction

Aitch

Old Russian Skoda's? Used to be made in Checkoslovakia, now the Check Republic.

The Lada was Russian, but I notice VW avoided buying them out.

Edited September 30, 2011 by uptheos

[YoungBrit]

I think the Thais have done as good a job as possible this year considering their limited resources. The whole valley is a waterlogged sponge and dams are full. Where else can the water go?

I'm very concerned that this water is heading south and many Thais in the Chao Phra basin have already suffered terribly this year from floods. Few ordinary Thais have insurance policies or plastic cards to replace the things that have taken a lifetime to accumulate.

Exactly! Nature has to take its course and with so much water already diverted south and huge areas already flooded it was inevitable.

[Dellboy218]

And if man wasnt around the natural progression would be for rivers to silt up, flood and find a new course which the Ping did a long time ago, hence Wiang Kum Kam. Perhaps somewhen someone will dig the river out when it is little more than a trickle as it was last dry season. Digging out the centuries of silt will help and it will keep the boat owners happy as there will be plenty of depth for them. Under normal circumstances it is very shallow in places.

[apetley]

I would blame God for being incompetent and clearly not qualified to be creating planets on his own. Now we're stuck with his sloppy work.

It's a little known fact God actually contracted the work to a guy called Somchai.

[jingjoke]

Following the 2005 floods, the government encouraged private dredging of the Ping. I had been renting a house on the embankment at the time and avoided the flooding by 1-2cm, if that. There were hundreds of trucks gathering the silt, a fine sand, from conveyor belts running from vacuuming dredge boats, both government (orange) and private( 'hand-crafted').

They worked for the better part of 2006 and 2007, effectively deepening the river, thus no more flooding until this year. In the last four years there was no dredging as near as I can tell, with the result that the silt continued to pile up allowing no recourse for the extra water but to overflow.

Continuous dredging by private citizens seems to be an effective solution provided they get to sell the sand, and keep the profits as was the case immediately after 2005; construction and cement companies being the buyers. A few Thai neighbors had traded their cars in for 6 and 10-wheelers. The vacuum motors on the dredges and the trucks loaded with the wet sand must have gulped diesel.

Possibly higher fuel costs is a factor for their demise, or those at the top demanding their percentage. Possibly too there are those who felt that the dredging operation wasn't adding to the river's aesthetics. FWIW.

[DaamNaam]

Blame it on the boogie.

[wales01]

Blame it on the boogie.

SH1T happens

[elektrified]

So, if the planet Earth was a car it'd be about as popular as those Old Russian Skoda's! Remember them gentle reader? I mean, it rattles and shakes (earthquakes), leaks and floods like crazy (tsunamis, downpours, flash flooding), spontaneously blows up (volcanoes), freezes over, over-heats, and if that little lots not bad enough, it violently throws debris and stuff all over the place at the drop of a hat with its murdering and incredibly powerful gale force winds.

The Skoda was Czechoslovakian not Russian.

[wales01]

co

So, if the planet Earth was a car it'd be about as popular as those Old Russian Skoda's! Remember them gentle reader? I mean, it rattles and shakes (earthquakes), leaks and floods like crazy (tsunamis, downpours, flash flooding), spontaneously blows up (volcanoes), freezes over, over-heats, and if that little lots not bad enough, it violently throws debris and stuff all over the place at the drop of a hat with its murdering and incredibly powerful gale force winds.

The Skoda was Czechoslovakian not Russian.

correct

[Lizard2010]

I thought that dredging the River would have stopped most of the flooding.

Obviously i was wrong.

I guess if they had not dredged the River.

It would have been much worse.

Maybe they need to dredge it again, after the floods.

But that would be asking too much!!!

[rafaelo]

i lived along the Mae Nam Ping for almost 2 years and enjoyed watching it for hours every day. i

saw how it goes up and down with the rains and how it is perpetually and increasingly clogged and polluted with plastic, , styrofoam, old mattresses and just about anything that can be thrown away.

I watched all the local thais around my home pile their trash into the river.

i requested from each one that i saw, to please protect the river. they all looked at my like i was crazy.

i saw a huge pile of trash created by my closest neighbor float over to me and then when i asked them to help me clean it up, the straight faced answer was ' that's not mine, i didn't make it..."

I saw how these same people loved to fish and swim and collect edible plants from the shores and i saw how their skin broke out in more rashes and how they sickened and 2 of my neighbors actually died, but not before their families , including their children dumped several meter high piles of non biodegradable rubbish into the river.

i called the local river protection office and they had no response.

i drew the line when a hill tribe family started dumping raw feces into the river and called them on it in a manner that clearly pointed out to them that they were eating the same shit every day them and they immeadiately stopped

the streets and drainage pipes are used as ashtrays and trash bins.....

saw how all of my thai neighbors destroyed dozens of old beautiful trees along the banks to sell for a few thousand baht worth of lumber.

i saw how local farmers use cheap;y available extremely toxic pesticides and fertilizers to save money and grow food faster..

I also saw how the water went up over 1.5 m. in 24 hours about 2 months ago. and how nothing was really done to prevent this flod that has ben giving signs for a very long time.

about 3 weeks ago i got a clear picture in my head of the river flooding. it was so sharp and realistic that my wife and I , who also saw it this same picture, decided 2 weeks ago, it was time to move.

so we moved and now our beautiful former home is buried in nasty smelly mud...

people from around the world have been mistreating nature, either by directly dumbing on it, or indirectly over producing the cheep quality materials we can buy from stores and stalls around the globe, and very insidiously by producing known toxins that kill fauna and erosion protecting flora.

we are all jointly responsible for this mess. as most would rather spend resources of recreation and consumerism and war instead of a good clean up our the only home we have. ;-)

and yes of course weather patters will change and deserts will become jungles and visa versa.

this particular mess cold have been mitigated with a conscious and intentional clean ups and directed educational programs.

chiang mai has become filthy dirty and polluted . the air is filthy, the water is poisonous and the soil is soiled.

nature has a way of flushing the toilette every now and then.

the real question is: any chance we can learn from this and avoid the next one? because it will only get worse.