South African Family's Phuket Holiday Nightmare

[Nisa]

They were about to check out of their hotel when Sequeira crossed the road to exchange $1 000 (R7 800) at the bank in order to settle his hotel bill.

Every time I have paid in cash for a hotel in Thailand, I needed to pay up front.

[DP25]

Jimi007 from South Africa it is nearly impossible to get any Thai Baht as not much of that currency comes into SA. When I first moved to Thailand, I had to bring US$ with me, that's all Rennies Travel could give me. So there is your answer. South Africa has extremely strict exchange control regulations, on false move and you join the AIDS Bunnies in Jail. Any jail sentence in SA is a death sentance, you will get AIDS/HIV within two weeks and that is a fact here. Rennies were correct the bills were not fake at all, this was just an extortion racket, but this matter is being taken further in SA by the law courts. This is not the end of the matter.

Have a good weekend.

So no counterfeit money in the South Africa? These two were recently arrested in Johannesburg with $80 million in fake US dollars. Seems like they are distributing large amounts of counterfeit money there

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mfonobongnsehe/2011/06/07/nigerians-arrested-with-80-million-in-counterfeit-money/

[endure]

Don't know if he could buy Thai Baht in SA. But would you exchange your money at a travel agency instead of a bank? I personally would have used an ATM card...

Lots of people buy currency at travel agents at the same time as they book their holidays. Every major travel agent in the UK has a foreign currency exchange.

[Nisa]

Don't know if he could buy Thai Baht in SA. But would you exchange your money at a travel agency instead of a bank? I personally would have used an ATM card...

Lots of people buy currency at travel agents at the same time as they book their holidays. Every major travel agent in the UK has a foreign currency exchange.

Thanks for that tidbit. I never associated a travel agency with money exchange.

[matilak]

Im from South Africa, its normal practise for us to ask our travel agents to exchange our money from rands to dollars. Bangkok gives you 2.9 baht for a rand and in S.A we get 4.1 baht for a rand, but we dont have a lot of baht in our country, and its always a problem thats why we prefer changing our money to dollars before we go to Bkk

[letitbe]

They believe they were targeted because Sequeira was exchanging a large amount and police had identified him as a rich individual.

Yes, a thousand dollars, I'm sure the bank had never seen money like that before and leaped at the opportunity to accuse such a high roller of counterfeiting. Nothing to do with them buying fake money, intentionally or not, at "Rennies Travel"

i used to change regularly here and in Indonesia 5000 to 10000 us $ to pay my suppliers no problems here but ive never done it in Puket and not done it for many years A few years ago we sold a house for 12 million baht the buyer wanted to pay me in cash us$ bills around 300,000 us$ (it was when you got around 40 baht for us$). Before transfer we took a sample of 10% to Bangkok bank in BKK (the branch knew me and wife over many years) so i could be sure they were not fake and although it raised a few eyebrows no problem at all. I had to fill in a form for BOT and give a copy of my passport as did seller and they handed over 1.2 million baht. At Land office the chief wanted to see me and asked me if I had received the money I said is their a problem and handed him 5,000 baht for admin expenses and said yes in cash at my home. He said no problem I just wanted to make sure youve been paid. The rest of 300,000 us$ ive been changing since then in around 30,000 $ at a time or taking out country with me and misses in around 20,000-40,000 us $ bits a time to pay some loans off. Wish id insisted on all baht since we still had about half left when $ dropped against baht to around 33. I was very nervous about it all at time since it represented a large part of our assets. However ive seen 20 million baht go over counter since then at gold shops in Bangkok. Not often but ive seen it and often seen 5 million a time. That was all years ago but some ops are really naive to think 1000 us$ a mere 30,000 baht is a lot for many many Thais although for a lot of thais at bottom it seems a fortune. Just go to any main bank in BKK and youll see its very common for a million or much more to be handed over either way and thats over 30,000 us $.

Edited October 1, 2011 by metisdead
Font resized to default forum font.

[moe666]

This story is a bit fishy, no help from Embassy says a lot right there, about the truth of the matter.

[FOODLOVER]

"While still in the cell a police officer brought a statement written in Thai for Sequeira to sign. He refused as he didn’t understand the document. But a New Zealander introduced to him as a tourism police officer and one of the few officials who could speak English, told him it was safe to sign the document as it was “just a formality”.

"Unbeknown to Sequeira, by signing the statement he was acknowledging guilt."

This is fraud and extortion to say the least. The tourist police officer was in on the scam and should be deported after he serves his sentence in Thai jail with the other officers in this extortion scam! This crap chaps my hide! Now people are blaming the guy for changing is money in South Africa, give me a break!

[softgeorge]

So ... were the dollars fake or not?

He signed a paper saying they were

First, we don't know what the paper said. Did he confess that the confiscated bills belonged to him? Did he confess that they were fake? Did he confess that he intentionally passed fake bills? Who the heck knows?

Second, it has no bearing on whether the bills were actually fake or not.

He probably didn't know what it said either unless he could read Thai and just signed it under duress. Even if it was translated into English or Dutch or whatever who can understanf a Thai-English translation and what version of the confession would they use? He may have thought he was signing to get his passport back, which happened to a friend of mine a couple of yrs back when he was on holidays, ended up confessing to theft.

[terryp]

This story smells fishy. Why would anyone exchange their cash at a travel agency instead of a bank? Why would you bring US Dollars to Thailand instead of Thai Baht? It just doesn't make sense...

Do you think the guy could buy Thai Bath in S.A.?????????

What's a Thai Bath? I usually only see showers! I use an ATM card where ever I have traveled without a problem. You get a higher exchange rate usually than cash and you won't end up in jail like this guy.

Obviously you are not so educated on SA (South African) Finance and banking rules and regulations ...better not to comment or make idiotic statements until you are. like many on this forum they Know absolutely nothing about anything they comment on but still do it...

[shunima]

This story smells fishy. Why would anyone exchange their cash at a travel agency instead of a bank? Why would you bring US Dollars to Thailand instead of Thai Baht? It just doesn't make sense...

You can see that you've never been in South Africa.It's very usual that you get a ticket and they chance all kind of money.Nothing unusual.You must be an idiot to bring Thai bahts because you get maybe 15 bahts for a dollar.Try to change bahts in Indonesia.You get 50% when you're lucky.

As I said later you're pretty much an idiot to carry cash around... Use an ATM card.

I was pretty much an idiot when I had only the ATM card left, no credit cards accepted and the next machine miles away. But good that you have it all figured out Sherlock :-)

[Jimi007]

This story smells fishy. Why would anyone exchange their cash at a travel agency instead of a bank? Why would you bring US Dollars to Thailand instead of Thai Baht? It just doesn't make sense...

You can see that you've never been in South Africa.It's very usual that you get a ticket and they chance all kind of money.Nothing unusual.You must be an idiot to bring Thai bahts because you get maybe 15 bahts for a dollar.Try to change bahts in Indonesia.You get 50% when you're lucky.

As I said later you're pretty much an idiot to carry cash around... Use an ATM card.

I was pretty much an idiot when I had only the ATM card left, no credit cards accepted and the next machine miles away. But good that you have it all figured out Sherlock :-)

He was in Phuket <deleted>! There is an ATM at every 7-11. There are 7-11's everywhere! The guy was at a bank trying to change US Dollars. I guess he couldn't spend those here! Get a clue! I live in Phuket and I have figured it out!

[Jimi007]

This story smells fishy. Why would anyone exchange their cash at a travel agency instead of a bank? Why would you bring US Dollars to Thailand instead of Thai Baht? It just doesn't make sense...

Do you think the guy could buy Thai Bath in S.A.?????????

What's a Thai Bath? I usually only see showers! I use an ATM card where ever I have traveled without a problem. You get a higher exchange rate usually than cash and you won't end up in jail like this guy.

Obviously you are not so educated on SA (South African) Finance and banking rules and regulations ...better not to comment or make idiotic statements until you are. like many on this forum they Know absolutely nothing about anything they comment on but still do it...

Are you saying that you can't get an ATM card or travelers checks at Standard Charter Bank?

[Nisa]

This story smells fishy. Why would anyone exchange their cash at a travel agency instead of a bank? Why would you bring US Dollars to Thailand instead of Thai Baht? It just doesn't make sense...

You can see that you've never been in South Africa.It's very usual that you get a ticket and they chance all kind of money.Nothing unusual.You must be an idiot to bring Thai bahts because you get maybe 15 bahts for a dollar.Try to change bahts in Indonesia.You get 50% when you're lucky.

As I said later you're pretty much an idiot to carry cash around... Use an ATM card.

I was pretty much an idiot when I had only the ATM card left, no credit cards accepted and the next machine miles away. But good that you have it all figured out Sherlock :-)

Having an ATM Card and not trying to use it until you at a store miles away from an ATM is kind of idiotic. But don't feel too bad because we all do stupid things sometimes.

[Nisa]

Somebody please explain ...

Why it makes sense for this guy to change his Rand into US Dollars (fees & exchange rate 1) and then come to Thailand and exchange the US Dollars into Baht (fees & exchange rate 2)

as opposed to travelers checks or using his ATM / Credit Card ... which I am assuming both would be cheaper and much safer.

[Payboy]

Does anyone know whether Sri Lanka Tony was called to translate?

[tombkk]

"While still in the cell a police officer brought a statement written in Thai for Sequeira to sign. He refused as he didn't understand the document. But a New Zealander introduced to him as a tourism police officer and one of the few officials who could speak English, told him it was safe to sign the document as it was "just a formality".

"Unbeknown to Sequeira, by signing the statement he was acknowledging guilt."

This is fraud and extortion to say the least. The tourist police officer was in on the scam and should be deported after he serves his sentence in Thai jail with the other officers in this extortion scam! This crap chaps my hide! Now people are blaming the guy for changing is money in South Africa, give me a break!

It's only fraud and extortion if the story is complete as told. I sincerely doubt that.

You are right that the guy cannot be blamed for buying dollars in South Africa. However, I wonder why he did that, since he had a credit card anyway.

Let's wait with any judgement until we hear the full story.

[Nisa]

Despite a letter from the travel agent insisting the money was genuine, authorities refused to release him.

How could any reputable travel agent "insist" the money he was changing in Thailand was genuine? The only thing they could do is confirm he changed money in SA before heading to Thailand.

[scorecard]

Somebody please explain ...

Why it makes sense for this guy to change his Rand into US Dollars (fees & exchange rate 1) and then come to Thailand and exchange the US Dollars into Baht (fees & exchange rate 2)

as opposed to travelers checks or using his ATM / Credit Card ... which I am assuming both would be cheaper and much safer.

I don't believe this question. Do you know what banking service are available in his part of SA?

Maybe travellers cheques don't exist (maybe there's a reason which you and I aren't aware of), maybe they have been discontinued. Maybe people don't trust banks and ATM machines. In the early days of ATMs in Thailand it was quite regular that the cash didn't come out of the slot and it was quite a hassle to get some action and get it corrected and for many Thai banks they would not start their data search until the beginning of the next month. Maybe the SA man is wary of this.

I can remember the time when ATM didn't exist, and many people had gotten tired of the hassle of travellers cheques (years back you had to apply a week in advance for the travellers cheques, submit tickets etc. and in some countries not every bank would convert them), the alternative was to buy cash US dollars on the basis that it was easy to buy and easy to convert to local currency pretty much anywhere.

Edited October 1, 2011 by scorecard

[Nisa]

Somebody please explain ...

Why it makes sense for this guy to change his Rand into US Dollars (fees & exchange rate 1) and then come to Thailand and exchange the US Dollars into Baht (fees & exchange rate 2)

as opposed to travelers checks or using his ATM / Credit Card ... which I am assuming both would be cheaper and much safer.

I don't believe this question. Do you know what banking service are available in his part of SA?

Maybe travellers cheques don't exist (maybe there's a reason which you and I aren't aware of), maybe they have ben discontinued. Maybe people don't trust banks and ATM machines.

I can remember the time when ATM didn't exist, and many people had gotten tired of the hassle of travellers cheques (years back you had to apply a week in advance for the travellers cheues, submit tickets etc. and in some countries not every bank would would convert them), the alternative was to buy cash US dollars on the basis that they are easy to convert to local currency pretty much anywhere.

He is from Johannesburg and their banking services are just fine. Travelers checks are also available in Johannesburg.

If he didn't trust banks then why is he going there to exchange foreign currency? If he didn't trust credit cards or atms then why does he have one that he was using to pay the police?

I can remember a time when computers didn't exist but it is about as irrelevant to this topic and my question as is the rest of your post as Traveler checks are still used and just as easy to exchange in Thailand as changing dollars.

Edited October 1, 2011 by Nisa

[Nisa]

Managing foreign currency is one of the biggest banes of traveling, which is where Rennies Foreign Exchange, a division of BIDVest Bank Limited, comes in handy. They offer their clients many options to make traveling easier; you can choose from American Express Traveler’s cheques, foreign currency, BIDVest Bank Cash Passport card (which works like a debit card), MoneyGram (for sending money abroad in 10 minutes), Draft cheques (to pay money into a foreign bank account), bank drafts and telegraphic transfers (for multinational corporates to transfer money to and from South Africa for events and traveling fees), and the Rand Travel Card (for visitors to South Africa, the card is preloaded and works like a debit card in South Africa). http://www.southafrica.to/transport/Travel-agents/Rennies/Rennies-Travel.php

[judgedredd]

A few loaded questions - -

Does there exist a "real" legal mechanism in Thailand which will allow a foreigner, who has been a victim of the Thai Police, to bring formal charges, perhaps through the efforts of the Special Branch or the DSI's?

Is the Kingdom of Thailand legally and financially responsible for crimes committed by the RTP? If not, why not? If "yes" when will the Thai Government pay restitution? (OK, it's a tongue in cheek question, but a legitimate question, never the less)

Who are these "helpful" foreigners who work for the Tourist Police (and also for the Thai immigration police) and who assist the Thai police in scamming foreigners? I've found it interesting that the names which pop up in this category (Tony the Sri Lankan, and Udo the German, etc., etc.) are never Americans. I wonder if that fact is simply random chance, or is it because the American police will aggressively go after any American expats who are involved in extraterritorial crimes?

The pattern, which repeats itself over and over in these cases includes: Capture, Unlawful Detention, No Official Charges, No Court Case Number, Extortion of "bribe" and or "bail" money and/or outright theft of cash, No Official Bail Receipt Records, Release after the victim is financially drained.

In the case highlighted in this posting thread, somebody back home apparently kept loading the South African victim's credit card or ATM card. The simple fact of the matter is that the RTP's had to force the Afrikaner to give up his credit card or ATM card PIN code. The South African banks, and the local Thai banks will have a record showing from which local ATM machines the cash was withdrawn. Many of those ATM's have cameras, and the visual record should show who withdrew the cash each time - - the New Zealander, the cops, the cop's mia noi, the cop's girlfriend, or the cop's boyfriend, etc.

Real police work simply isn't that difficult to perform. In addition to the visual record from the ATM machines, it probably wouldn't take a rocket scientist to find out which mobile phone numbers were used by some of the cops and/or the New Zealander during the extortion of the Afrikaner. (Sure, they've all changed SIM cards since, but that's not the point.) Thai cops, mia nois, and etc., if they are like other Thai people, probably use their mobiles too much, and they text too much. That creates another electronic trail. DTAC and 1,2-Call keep SMS text message records on their computers for a minimum of 90-days. Again, it simply wouldn't take a genius working from the SB's or from the DSI's to sift through all of that SMS drivel and find a few incriminating text messages.

All of these police crimes against foreigners would finally stop, if the Thai Government wanted it to stop.

Respectfully submitted,

JD

Edited October 1, 2011 by metisdead
Font reset, use default forum font when posting.

[Naam]

Don't know if he could buy Thai Baht in SA. But would you exchange your money at a travel agency instead of a bank? I personally would have used an ATM card...

wisecracks have no idea that South Africa has currency restrictions. no such thing like an S.A. ATM-card working abroad.

by the way, only an ignorant would buy Thai Baht abroad at a fancy rate and take them to Thailand.

[ParadiseLost]

Are you saying that you can't get an ATM card or travelers checks at Standard Charter Bank?

Standard Bank of South Africa is not Standard Chartered bank.

Let me ask you this - if you are travelling to various countries which is the easiest currency to carry? USD is accepted everywhere. I learnt this in China where I tried to use GBP travellers cheques (in 2006) and found it nigh impossible to exchange them anywhere. I did use an ATM card as well but was limited to a ridiculously small amount every day. Try finding an ATM in Vietnam outside of main centres...

Another point - so what if ATM/Travellers cheques are the preferred method? Perhaps the guy is not as 'world-wise' as you claim to be, or perhaps he just had a whole stack of USD notes from a previous trip. Not everyone is as perfect as you mate, but that does not justify extorting money from them. Or are you siding with the corrupt lawyers and cops here?

Or are you just another keyboard warrior desperately trying to impress...

[Nisa]

no such thing like an S.A. ATM-card working abroad.

You are wrong.

[Jimi007]

Are you saying that you can't get an ATM card or travelers checks at Standard Charter Bank?

Standard Bank of South Africa is not Standard Chartered bank.

Let me ask you this - if you are travelling to various countries which is the easiest currency to carry? USD is accepted everywhere. I learnt this in China where I tried to use GBP travellers cheques (in 2006) and found it nigh impossible to exchange them anywhere. I did use an ATM card as well but was limited to a ridiculously small amount every day. Try finding an ATM in Vietnam outside of main centres...

Another point - so what if ATM/Travellers cheques are the preferred method? Perhaps the guy is not as 'world-wise' as you claim to be, or perhaps he just had a whole stack of USD notes from a previous trip. Not everyone is as perfect as you mate, but that does not justify extorting money from them. Or are you siding with the corrupt lawyers and cops here?

Or are you just another keyboard warrior desperately trying to impress...

Fact: This is 2011. He was in Phuket, not Vietnam or anywhere else.The article states he changed to US Dollars for this trip at Rennies. To quote Nisa

Rennies Foreign Exchange, a division of BIDVest Bank Limited, comes in handy.They offer their clients many options to make traveling easier; you can choose from American Express Traveler's cheques, foreign currency, BIDVest Bank Cash Passport card (which works like a debit card), MoneyGram (for sending money abroad in 10 minutes), Draft cheques (to pay money into a foreign bank account), bank drafts and telegraphic transfers (for multinational corporates to transfer money to and from South Africa for events and traveling fees), and the Rand Travel Card (for visitors to South Africa, the card is preloaded and works like a debit card in South Africa). http://www.southafri...nies-Travel.php

And why should I take his word for anything? I've lived here in Phuket for six years and have never had a problem with the police here. Do a Google search; South African Man Phuket and read what little there is. I will refrain from calling you anything or trying to impress anyone... But I didn't know that South Africa had a banking system that is more stone aged than Thailand's.

[Nisa]

perhaps he just had a whole stack of USD notes from a previous trip. Not everyone is as perfect as you mate, but that does not justify extorting money from them. Or are you siding with the corrupt lawyers and cops here?

You seem convinced he was extorted but clearly you haven't fully read the article.

[ParadiseLost]

Are you saying that you can't get an ATM card or travelers checks at Standard Charter Bank?

Standard Bank of South Africa is not Standard Chartered bank.

Let me ask you this - if you are travelling to various countries which is the easiest currency to carry? USD is accepted everywhere. I learnt this in China where I tried to use GBP travellers cheques (in 2006) and found it nigh impossible to exchange them anywhere. I did use an ATM card as well but was limited to a ridiculously small amount every day. Try finding an ATM in Vietnam outside of main centres...

Another point - so what if ATM/Travellers cheques are the preferred method? Perhaps the guy is not as 'world-wise' as you claim to be, or perhaps he just had a whole stack of USD notes from a previous trip. Not everyone is as perfect as you mate, but that does not justify extorting money from them. Or are you siding with the corrupt lawyers and cops here?

Or are you just another keyboard warrior desperately trying to impress...

Fact: This is 2011. He was in Phuket, not Vietnam or anywhere else.The article states he changed to US Dollars for this trip at Rennies. To quote Nisa

Rennies Foreign Exchange, a division of BIDVest Bank Limited, comes in handy.They offer their clients many options to make traveling easier; you can choose from American Express Traveler's cheques, foreign currency, BIDVest Bank Cash Passport card (which works like a debit card), MoneyGram (for sending money abroad in 10 minutes), Draft cheques (to pay money into a foreign bank account), bank drafts and telegraphic transfers (for multinational corporates to transfer money to and from South Africa for events and traveling fees), and the Rand Travel Card (for visitors to South Africa, the card is preloaded and works like a debit card in South Africa). http://www.southafri...nies-Travel.php

And why should I take his word for anything? I've lived here in Phuket for six years and have never had a problem with the police here. Do a Google search; South African Man Phuket and read what little there is. I will refrain from calling you anything or trying to impress anyone... But I didn't know that South Africa had a banking system that is more stone aged than Thailand's.

I have no interest in Thai or SA bashing, but if we discuss facts:

1. Yes, he was in Thailand but nowhere does it say he did not travel to other countries.

2. Yes, he did exchange money at Rennies but no way of knowing if he had other dollars too.

3. Banking system inside SA is top quality; I worked for Barclays there in the early 80's and most electronic systems and ATMs were in place before many EU countries.

4. The foreign exchange laws in SA are stone-aged (but questionable whether moreso than Thai) and many SA people use USD cash (and gold coins) to avoid unwelcome attention from paranoid authorities.

I too have lived here 6+ years and also never had a problem with cops. I have, however heard of many cases both here on TV and through the Samui/KP/KT grapevine where naive and vulnerable tourists are scammed with the aid of the police. The jetski scams in Phuket are internationally famous, even making prime time viewing in the UK. What did the superb Phuket police do to stop this? Not to mention Tuk Tuks, bar mats and numerous other little cash earners.

Do you really expect anyone to believe this was anything other than a blatant scam?

[bunta71]

"But a New Zealander introduced to him as a tourism police officer and one of the few officials who could speak English, told him it was safe to sign the document as it was "just a formality".

Glad to see the farang helped him out.

Seems we still think alike John. Reading this whole thread and all I could think of was finding that Kiwi That hoodwinked him. Cannot wait to sit down with you again someday and tell you the whole story of my ordeal with the "Tourist Police" back in CNX. Cannot while still in country but when I leave my unfinished book will shed a lot of darkness on these criminals. If you knew what they did to me you would not believe it. Never trust any sort of police or volunteer here. Miss you my brudda.

[bunta71]

"But a New Zealander introduced to him as a tourism police officer and one of the few officials who could speak English, told him it was safe to sign the document as it was "just a formality".

Glad to see the farang helped him out.

Yeah, I forgot to mention this. The "Tourist Police Volunteers" are usually very helpful people. I doubt that they would mislead any tourist into signing a document in which they commit a crime. I would like the name of the NZ guy and hear his side of the story.

Naive at best.