South African Family's Phuket Holiday Nightmare

[Wallaby]

What's insane about being put in jail for passing counterfeit bank notes? And keeping you there if you're unable to post bail?

What's insane is that you believe everything you read in the papers.

I wasn't aware they had the results back. Actually, I wasn't aware they sent the notes for testing, I thought he was asked to pay for the notes to be sent for testing but I can't see where he actually did that.

[SAffer]

This story smells fishy. Why would anyone exchange their cash at a travel agency instead of a bank? Why would you bring US Dollars to Thailand instead of Thai Baht? It just doesn't make sense...

In South Africa they have stringent anti-laundering laws... so, it is impossible to exchange money without an air ticket and some other proof of travel. As a result, many SA travel agencies offer this service to customers.

[SAffer]

AMAZING that after perusing just a few months of news stories on this website regarding foreigners nightmares in Thailand, that more countries do not post regular warnings to their citizens travelling here about how freaking insane it is for foreigners...

I wish they would... I am so fed-up by the attitude here.

[FOODLOVER]

AMAZING that after perusing just a few months of news stories on this website regarding foreigners nightmares in Thailand, that more countries do not post regular warnings to their citizens travelling here about how freaking insane it is for foreigners...

You could almost call it a MIRACLE.

[SAffer]

Maybe i am being naive, but i don't think it is fair to always assume there is a scam going on whenever a farang is nabbed for something..

Absolutely agree - but whatever his innocence or guilt, the correct legal procedure should be followed, and based upon the information so far, it has not been followed. (How come the senior police officer was not informed of his arrest - that is something that is required in situations such as this, and an action which the embassies have recently insisted upon, due to previous 'dubious' incidents.

Simon

PS - if the guy has broken SA laws regarding export of currency etc, then that is a matter for the SA authorities to deal with, not the Thai authorities, (unless they were requested to do so by SA).

Well, it appears he may have broken the law by taking more than *R5000 (equivalent to US$615 out of the country.

*R5000 is the limit to take in and out of RSA.

However, that is not the point - The South African fellow has been extorted by the RTP in Phuket... unfortunately this behavior by the RTP in Phuket reminiscent of the Duty Free scams and I very much doubt an isolated incident.

You must be mental to think that SA only allows us to take US$615 out of the country for a 10 day holiday. Hahaaa...

[Richard4849]

What's insane about being put in jail for passing counterfeit bank notes? And keeping you there if you're unable to post bail?

What's insane is that you believe everything you read in the papers.

I wasn't aware they had the results back. Actually, I wasn't aware they sent the notes for testing, I thought he was asked to pay for the notes to be sent for testing but I can't see where he actually did that.

EXACTLY.

No one knows anything about what really happened.

Could just as easily have been counterfeit as not.

[simon43]

From the original report:

police arrested him on a charge of being in possession of alleged fake dollars

Yet after a month in custody, he was apparently allowed to go without any criminal proceedings, and after paying an overstay fine and more payments to the police.

So the question which was asked by Richard at the start of this thread is rather important:

'Were the dollars fake or not?'

If they were proven to be fake, then he would need to defend himself (or to admit guilt) in a Court of Law - which apparently did not happen.

If the dollars were not fake, (which might seem to be the case since criminal charges were dropped), then surely the man has a claim against the police for false arrest etc.

We do not know all the facts, and probably never will, but this case does seem to indicate that on several (numerous?) occasions, the correct legal procedures were not followed. (I'm trying to be polite here!)

Simon

[Richard4849]

From the original report:

police arrested him on a charge of being in possession of alleged fake dollars

Yet after a month in custody, he was apparently allowed to go without any criminal proceedings, and after paying an overstay fine and more payments to the police.

So the question which was asked by Richard at the start of this thread is rather important:

'Were the dollars fake or not?'

If they were proven to be fake, then he would need to defend himself (or to admit guilt) in a Court of Law - which apparently did not happen.

If the dollars were not fake, (which might seem to be the case since criminal charges were dropped), then surely the man has a claim against the police for false arrest etc.

We do not know all the facts, and probably never will, but this case does seem to indicate that on several (numerous?) occasions, the correct legal procedures were not followed. (I'm trying to be polite here!)

Simon

Simply using counterfeit currency is not illegal.

There must be intent.

It is possible that the bills WERE counterfeit, but the police investigation which continued while he was in custody (and apparently unable to post bail) could not find enough evidence of intent to prosecute.

He would therefore have been released with charges dropped.

There is not enough information here -- specifically credible information -- to conclude that "correct legal procedures were not followed" (or were followed).

[ParadiseLost]

I changed my mind. Bored of this.

:jap:

Edited October 3, 2011 by ParadiseLost

[siamiam]

Withdrew more money that day. Following day found they'd put a stop on it again.

3 bloody times they stopped transactions on my card knowing I was in Thailand and this from a major bank, Westpac.

Not the same as what you are reporting, but it reminds me that some debit cards (at least from the States) have daily limits that are fairly low. I had one with a $1,000US daily limit. Another had a $3,000US daily limit. Paying for amounts larger than the limit is not a problem, as long as you are prepared to spread the payment out over however many days it takes.

[simon43]

There is not enough information here -- specifically credible information -- to conclude that "correct legal procedures were not followed" (or were followed).

Of course, we are basing our opinions upon newspaper articles, but would you not agree that prior-agreed legal procedure was NOT followed, in that the senior police officer and relevant Honorary Consulate were not promptly informed of his arrest?

[siamiam]

Legitimate US dollar notes never lose their legal tender status regardless of age. It's true many older or slightly damaged notes may not be accepted overseas but that's merely a business prerogative.

The 1985 series of US $100 notes were the last issued without the security thread running the width of the note. I have encountered one of these notes in the last two years. Those notes are legal tender but when I tried to spend it at a fast food restaurant (in the US) it was refused (not because of its large denomination, but because it was suspicious to the cashier for lacking a security thread). I took it to my bank and exchanged it for a newer style note.

[Richard4849]

There is not enough information here -- specifically credible information -- to conclude that "correct legal procedures were not followed" (or were followed).

Of course, we are basing our opinions upon newspaper articles, but would you not agree that prior-agreed legal procedure was NOT followed, in that the senior police officer and relevant Honorary Consulate were not promptly informed of his arrest?

IF that is the correct procedure and IF it was not done, then yes.

I'm not so sure of either at the moment.

[siamiam]

The 1985 series of US $100 notes were the last issued without the security thread running the width of the note.

Apparently 1988 was the last series without the security thread (strip). I thought I once had a 1988 note with a strip , but the internet is telling me otherwise.

[Canexpat]

What's insane about being put in jail for passing counterfeit bank notes? And keeping you there if you're unable to post bail?

What's insane is that you believe everything you read in the papers.

Actually it is not me who believes everything I read in the papers. There were alleged counterfeit bank notes.

If you actually lived in Thailand for any length of time, you would know that posting bail does not guarantee a quick exit from incarceration.

My last 2 years in Thailand, I was assaulted by a tuk tuk driver. My aquaintance Alan Quicke who rented the house across the street from mine, was murdered for a few thousand baht and his cellphone (which is how the police tracked down his murderer). An Australian on vacation was murdered, and a local business owner (also an expat) was murdered by his wife, her brother, and her thai lover. All within a 10 days of each other in Hua Hin. My friend from Canada and his girlfriend now languish in a Thai jail, for a crime they did not commit, while the authorities bleed his family back home.

So I don't get all my information from the papers...

Edited October 3, 2011 by Canexpat

[Richard4849]

What's insane about being put in jail for passing counterfeit bank notes? And keeping you there if you're unable to post bail?

What's insane is that you believe everything you read in the papers.

Actually it is not me who believes everything I read in the papers. There were alleged counterfeit bank notes.

If you actually lived in Thailand for any length of time, you would know that posting bail does not guarantee a quick exit from incarceration.

My last 2 years in Thailand, I was assaulted by a tuk tuk driver, my friend from Britain who lived across the street was murdered for a few thousand baht and his cellphone (which is how the police found the murderer), and a man I had just been introduced to Alan Quicke was murdered. My friend from Canada and his girlfriend now languish in a Thai jail, for a crime they did not commit, while the authorities bleed his family back home.

So I don't get all my information from the papers...

I've lived in Thailand over 20 years and bailed more than a couple friends out of jail during that time. Your experiences may be different, but don't call into question how long I have been here or my experiences.

[richard_smith237]

Maybe i am being naive, but i don't think it is fair to always assume there is a scam going on whenever a farang is nabbed for something..

Absolutely agree - but whatever his innocence or guilt, the correct legal procedure should be followed, and based upon the information so far, it has not been followed. (How come the senior police officer was not informed of his arrest - that is something that is required in situations such as this, and an action which the embassies have recently insisted upon, due to previous 'dubious' incidents.

Simon

PS - if the guy has broken SA laws regarding export of currency etc, then that is a matter for the SA authorities to deal with, not the Thai authorities, (unless they were requested to do so by SA).

Well, it appears he may have broken the law by taking more than *R5000 (equivalent to US$615 out of the country.

*R5000 is the limit to take in and out of RSA.

However, that is not the point - The South African fellow has been extorted by the RTP in Phuket... unfortunately this behavior by the RTP in Phuket reminiscent of the Duty Free scams and I very much doubt an isolated incident.

You must be mental to think that SA only allows us to take US$615 out of the country for a 10 day holiday. Hahaaa...

Mental indeed.. Well, mistaken anyway - I actually misread the SA Customs web page which states foreign nationals are limited to bringing in or taking out a maximum of R5000 (US$615) or currency equivalent when entering or exiting SA.

As another poster has pointed out: R10,000 to R1M are the relevant limitations...

Regardless of how this has been dressed up by some. This continues to stink of major extortion.

[richard_smith237]

What's insane about being put in jail for passing counterfeit bank notes? And keeping you there if you're unable to post bail?

What's insane is that you believe everything you read in the papers.

What's insane?

Its highly feasible that he was set up.

There is no innocent until proven guilty.

There is apparently no leniency involved when considering what can only be a highly questionable situation.

The bail charge appears 'insanely' high given the bail amounts charged to those accused of other / alternative and often more serious crimes.

What's insane is that it is possible that any one of us at any time can fall foul of this type of extortion should the Police continue to get away with it.... imaginative traffic violations, accusations of stealing at the airport duty free, parking your car on the side of the road for 2 years then facing jail time because a drunk girl on a scooter rides into it, police backing up the jetski scammers...

The issue here is that with each an every potential scam the bar is raised... It won't be long before someone has drugs planted on them and is extorted for everything they have.

This is no longer the thin end of the wedge - There is a major issue and (some of) the police act with impunity. This is what's insane.

What would be particularly insane is for someone to trust the police in Thailand. I have lived here for a number of years and never had an issue with the police. I still wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.

[Wallaby]

Actually it is not me who believes everything I read in the papers. There were alleged counterfeit bank notes.

If you actually lived in Thailand for any length of time, you would know that posting bail does not guarantee a quick exit from incarceration.

My last 2 years in Thailand, I was assaulted by a tuk tuk driver. My aquaintance Alan Quicke who rented the house across the street from mine, was murdered for a few thousand baht and his cellphone (which is how the police tracked down his murderer). An Australian on vacation was murdered, and a local business owner (also an expat) was murdered by his wife, her brother, and her thai lover. All within a 10 days of each other in Hua Hin. My friend from Canada and his girlfriend now languish in a Thai jail, for a crime they did not commit, while the authorities bleed his family back home.

So I don't get all my information from the papers...

Crikey!! I hope you don't mind too much if I dodge becoming one of your 'friends'.

[sirchai]

"He paid a fine for overstaying his visa and was free to leave with no pending criminal action against him on record."

So not only was he possibly scammed out of all his money he was incarcerated and held in Thailand for a month. Then they have the nerve to fine him for overstaying his visa ontop of everything else there in lays another scam. So if there was no pending criminal action taken then I would pressume that the notes were not fake and all the monies extorted from him over the month were returned in full.

And cat's can't fly......

[sirchai]

It's a normal practice in J'burg at least to have the travel agent take care of such things, similarly, it's also normal practice for doctors to consult over the phone and then send the prescribed medications via courier. It's not the same as Kansas I'm afraid.

[sirchai]

So ... were the dollars fake or not?

Indeed a good question said Mr. Holmes.....

[sirchai]

Actually it is not me who believes everything I read in the papers. There were alleged counterfeit bank notes.

If you actually lived in Thailand for any length of time, you would know that posting bail does not guarantee a quick exit from incarceration.

My last 2 years in Thailand, I was assaulted by a tuk tuk driver. My aquaintance Alan Quicke who rented the house across the street from mine, was murdered for a few thousand baht and his cellphone (which is how the police tracked down his murderer). An Australian on vacation was murdered, and a local business owner (also an expat) was murdered by his wife, her brother, and her thai lover. All within a 10 days of each other in Hua Hin. My friend from Canada and his girlfriend now languish in a Thai jail, for a crime they did not commit, while the authorities bleed his family back home.

So I don't get all my information from the papers...

Crikey!! I hope you don't mind too much if I dodge becoming one of your 'friends'.

[globalmenace]

What's insane about being put in jail for passing counterfeit bank notes? And keeping you there if you're unable to post bail?

What's insane is that you believe everything you read in the papers.

What's insane?

Its highly feasible that he was set up.

There is no innocent until proven guilty.

There is apparently no leniency involved when considering what can only be a highly questionable situation.

The bail charge appears 'insanely' high given the bail amounts charged to those accused of other / alternative and often more serious crimes.

What's insane is that it is possible that any one of us at any time can fall foul of this type of extortion should the Police continue to get away with it.... imaginative traffic violations, accusations of stealing at the airport duty free, parking your car on the side of the road for 2 years then facing jail time because a drunk girl on a scooter rides into it, police backing up the jetski scammers...

The issue here is that with each an every potential scam the bar is raised... It won't be long before someone has drugs planted on them and is extorted for everything they have.

This is no longer the thin end of the wedge - There is a major issue and (some of) the police act with impunity. This is what's insane.

What would be particularly insane is for someone to trust the police in Thailand. I have lived here for a number of years and never had an issue with the police. I still wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.

I've had a few problems with the police here. Garden variety extortion.

Their demands were really at the piker level. A Baht Bus Gus would be pretty upset, but you and I wouldn't be.

You remember the dictionaries in book form? Sometimes, they provide an image next to the definition. For the entry on "Organized Crime", they need to have a Thai Pol. General as the image.

Out of curiousity, are there any other countries that have Police Generals?

[maidu]

"He paid a fine for overstaying his visa and was free to leave with no pending criminal action against him on record." So not only was he possibly scammed out of all his money he was incarcerated and held in Thailand for a month. Then they have the nerve to fine him for overstaying his visa ontop of everything else there in lays another scam. So if there was no pending criminal action taken then I would pressume that the notes were not fake and all the monies extorted from him over the month were returned in full.

yes, the story sounds fishy and incomplete. Did the notes get tested for authenticity? The US treasury takes counterfitting v. seriously, and they'd likely have an agent at the scene. From the sketchy garbled report, it sounds like the Phuket police pulled a big mean-spirited scam. Maybe they're related to the jet ski scammer and/or the taxi drivers there. They might win the battle (their most recent rip-off), but they're going to lose the war (tourists will avoid Phuket, as they should). The whole island should be vacated, and nature allowed to take it back. Fat chance - about as likely as Phuket authorities gaining a modicum of decency.

[Jimi007]

There was an update on this story that I read today from a source that isn't allowed to be named on here. Do a Google search for Phuket News. I'm not sure if this link is allowed or not: http://www.phuket.net/news/

[Richard4849]

Major General Pekad said today that a check of records at Chalong Police Station revealed that Mr Sequeira was held in a cell for just one night and released the following day, September 3, on 300,000 baht bail. The money was later repaid to Mr Sequeira's lawyer, Major General Pekad said.

At no time was Mr Sequeira's passport surrendered, Major General Pekad said. Immigration officials at the airport would have held him if he had attempted to leave before the case was settled, Major General Pekad said.

A check showed three occasions on which Mr Sequeira converted US dollars to baht at Phuket banks - for $400, $1000 and $1050.

All the $100 notes in the second transaction were fakes, Major General Pekad said, along with some notes in the third transaction. In the man's hotel room, Major General Pekad said, police found another $1480 in fake notes.

Police opted not pursue any charges against Mr Sequeira because they believed he had been supplied with the fake notes from a legitimate source in South Africa and was an innocent party. ''The money that Mr Sequeira says was paid to police appears to have all gone to his lawyer,'' Major General Pekad said.

Aha.

Who got it right (based on this account)?

Money paid to cops was bail, which was returned.

Lawyers pocketed it.

Lack of intent = no prosecution.

I'm so good, sometimes I even impress myself.

[Flatflyer]

So if there was no pending criminal action taken then I would pressume that the notes were not fake

Bad assumption.

It could be that the bills were in fact fake, but the police decided that they did not have enough evidence of intent to prosecute the guy.

No intent, no crime.

Why would they need evidence if he had signed a confession???

Who knows what the "confession" said? You can't assume that he confessed to having knowingly attempted to pass counterfeit currency.

_____________________

Facts!!!

Laws in South Africa did not allow banks to stock or trade in foreign currency.. that is until recently. Getting into the bank and waiting to be helped with foreign currency is a huge problem. Rennies and the other travel companies stocking foreign currency is very quick and accepted world wide.

Thai Baht is not available in South Africa... as is ZAR not available in Thailand. So, the wise thing to do is to change to US$.

I am a SA citizen and visit Thai yearly with friends. This is a low blow and there should be legal and diplomatic steps that can be taken.... oh... no.... official channels will not work .. not in Thai and not in the RSA... money lost... poor people..

[Richard4849]

If facts are as stated, sounds like Rennies is the culprit, eh?

[Soutpeel]

Thai Baht is not available in South Africa... as is ZAR not available in Thailand. So, the wise thing to do is to change to US$.

Yes it is.....have bought Thai baht in Cape Town and have bought ZAR (R25,000 worth) at Swampy on my way to Cape Town