Best School In Bkk Using Union Method (I.E., Unity, Tla, Aaa, Prammitr, Etc.)

[SteveMorrissey]

I read the very old posts in the "Best Thai Language School" topic, and have decided that the method originally taught by the Union school is right for me. I'd like to please hear from any forum members who have recent experience with Unity (UTL), AAA, TLA, or Piammitr.

From what I gathered, Unity and Piammitr are perhaps more demanding, with the total course split into six modules, and AAA and TLA split the total course into seven modules. The other difference I saw on the school websites was that Piammitr requires 8 months of courses to help with a visa, and AAA only requires three months. Not sure about requirements of Unity and TLA - still need to speak with them. I am considering one of the 3 hour/day (60 hours total) classes, as 4 hours/day will probably be a bit much.

Thank you very much for any advice you can provide from your own experience with these schools.

I've attached a copy of a file I made which summarizes the information I found today on the Unity, AAA, TLA, and Piammitr websites. Hope this is helpful for someone.

P.S. Please don't start a discussion of the Walen school or any other schools here. Thank you.

Union Method BKK Thai School Comparison - Oct. 8, 2011.pdf

Edited October 8, 2011 by SteveMorrissey

[Parvis]

You should find good evaluations of Schools at website "Women learning Thai" - particularily by Tod Daniels who was banned from this forum.

[SteveMorrissey]

You should find good evaluations of Schools at website "Women learning Thai" - particularily by Tod Daniels who was banned from this forum.

Thanks Parvis. Great suggestion. That site has a lot of good information. I also searched for "Tod Daniels" here, and he had some good posts on this site too. Thanks again.

[AyG]

Actually, with Unity if you do the three hours a day (afternoon) option, it takes seven, not six units. One of the units where you learn to read and write (can't remember if it's 3 or 4) is split into two parts. It's only six units if you study in the morning.

Personally I preferred the 4 hours sessions because it gave more time for free discussion with the teacher, so more practice of speaking and listening. With the 3 hours sessions you really are just learning the book.

One factor to consider is the nationalities of the other students. I studied at Unity, and virtually all the students are Japanese and Korean - particularly above level 2/3 - with a handful of Russians, so even chatting during the break you're talking in Thai. I suspect that at a school with more Westerners, a lot of that chat would be in English. (There are a quite a few Westerners who start, but drop out before it gets to learning to read and write. The Asian students are typically much, much more committed. Only the handful of missionaries seem to be more dedicated.)

Also consider the amount of homework set. By level 5 you are writing a shortish essay virtually every day. At first this will take a couple of hours per day, though with practice one gets a lot faster. It's still a big commitment. I understand that some other schools aren't as rigorous with the homework.

Oh, and don't think that completing the six units will mean you can speak and read Thai fluently. There's still a long way to go. Check on the availability of the special modules and how often they are taught. You'll need them. At Unity most terms there's a "Society's Problems" and a "Newspaper 1", but other special modules are rarely or never taught. I did "Newspaper 2" a few times. (It uses real daily newspapers.) It's very, very tough, but rewarding.

[SteveMorrissey]

Thanks AyG. Appreciate all of your feedback.

I will be sure to check out Unity. I'm actually interested in learning the language well, so it sounds like Unity may be a good choice.

I read that some of the other schools which use the same method had updated their materials (aside from the Newspaper 2 class), but Unity had not. Did you find that was an issue, or is that even true?

A couple of other questions.....

Did you have trouble taking the higher level classes - were they offered when you needed them? That is one thing I read about a couple of the schools - it was hard to actually take the advanced classes, as there were not enough students.

After completing the six units, how would you rate your ability - for example, are you comfortable watching TV and reading a newspaper, or are those things still a challenge? Are you working in Thai at all?

I am working now, outside Bangkok, but will take some time off and visit the schools soon. Thanks again for your help with this.

Edited October 10, 2011 by SteveMorrissey

[AyG]

Unity has made some small changes to the material just to reflect changes such as the new airport. However, the texts remain probably 95% unchanged. This is really only an issue with the Newspaper I class. The newspaper cuttings used are now very old. Fine if you're interested in Thai politicians from the past (for me that was fine, because I'm very interested in MR Kukrit), but a bit irrelevant otherwise.

I was flexible about when I studied, and on occasions there wasn't a particular special module available when I wanted it. If you're able to switch between morning and afternoon sessions it's easier. More students study in the morning, so more special modules tend to be available then.

If I were to criticise the method, it would be that there is too much emphasis on reading and writing, and not enough on speaking. Completing the six modules is enough to hold a simple conversation and to read simple articles. However, with the writing you'll probably (in my experience) still be writing childish jibberish that native speakers can't understand - that is, if you try to push your use of the language, rather than sticking to very simple sentences. Six modules is nowhere near enough to be comfortable watching TV or reading a newspaper. You probably need at least double that. That said, TV programmes are not equal. Series and movies dubbed into Thai tend to be a lot easier to understand that native programmes; the news tends to contain formal vocabulary, but the speakers enunciate clearly; soap operas and youth programmes can contain a lot of slang.

Another couple of criticisms: the teachers all speak standard central Thai, and speak it very clearly. (For some this isn't their native accent, and they occasionally slip up, which is amusing.) Anyway, they don't speak like "ordinary" Thais. Also, they usually don't criticise the students' pronunciation, and the lack of feedback can make it difficult to pick up on pronunciation problems and resolve with them. (There are two consonants that it took me months of practice on my own to be able to reproduce reliably; and there are still two vowel sounds that I can't discriminate between consistently.)

And a final criticism is the rate at which new vocabulary is introduced. Research suggests that one can master less than 10 new words per day as an adult. The course introduces a lot more than that. Three of the modules I did twice to give me more time to grasp the vocabulary.

As a rough rule of thumb, an average learner needs to spend about 2,000 hours study to become proficient at Thai. That's a lot more than Unity can offer, unfortunately. You'll need to continue your studies on your own, reading native texts, listening to native speakers and holding real world conversations.

[kriswillems]

I studied at piammitr and AAA. I compared the books with unity. All these schools have almost identical books and programs.

There are 7 books in all schools, even if the website says there are only 6.

Most school help you to prepare for the government test, which is a hard but useful course, because it helps you to realize how little you know after doing the 7 books and a few special courses.

After completing the 7 books + social problems + newspaper 1 + newspaper 2 + preparation for test, you've studied about 800 to 1000 hours, and you've spent about the same time doing homework.

This will not make you fluent, but it will bring you to a higher level than the schools that offer "student visa courses". The last group of courses are usually only 4 hours per week, and their most difficult book are much easier than for instance book 7 of the union program.

I think I am still an advanced beginner. I can have conversations about most subjects, but I make lot's of mistakes. I can read pretty well, but my writing is not that good. I can understand most conversations, but when people use a lot of slang or Isaan, I am lost.

Edited October 14, 2011 by kriswillems

[Golden Nugget]

Kriswillems and AyG- It's been a number of years since I last took Thai lessons - modules 2 and 3 at Unity. If I were to resume studying, module 4 would be the logical choice. But as AyG stated, Unity places heavy emphasis in reading and writing. That's not a bad thing, but it's not what I want. I am more interested in improving my conversational skills. Do either one of you know of a school in Bangkok that emphasizes conversations?

[kriswillems]

I am sorry, but I don't any school that focuses on speaking on a higher level, without also doing writing exercises.

But I think all school can give you private lesson specifically about the skill want to improve. Most union based schools charge 400 to 500 B per hour.

At this moment my weakest point is my lack of a big vocabulary.

There are certain subjects I talk less good about than other subjects, only because I am missing some words in my vocabulary.

Do you've the same problem with speaking or are you missing sentence constructions and listening skills?

In case you would be lacking vocabulary, I think it would be good to do social problems and book 7. It's true the courses focus on writing, but I think reading and writing can be tools to extend your vocabulary and thus improve your speaking.

In case you would be missing sentence constructions and listening skills, I would advice you to try to listen to the radio. I've found that the radio is more useful to improve my listening skills than the TV because you've to do extra effort while listening and focus very much on the sound. Maybe you can record something from the radio and use that in combination with private lessons, so the teacher could help you to understand the parts you don't understand and you can practice your speaking skills by exchanging opinions about the recorded audio.

To be honest, for me it would be nearly impossible to improve my Thai language without also learning to write. It's just how my brain works.

I really would like to go to study again because I feel like I am only improving very slowly at the moment, but my biggest problem is money and time.

[SteveMorrissey]

Kris, AyG,

Thank you both for your thoughts. I've adjusted my expectations accordingly. :-)

One more question, please - when you started the courses, could you speak Thai at all, and had you spent time in Thailand listening to people speak Thai? I'm trying to figure out if I am in the same situation as you, or if mine is a bit different. I've been here for four years and can have basic conversations, so I'm not starting from scratch. I can't read or write, and I am sure that my tones and pronunciation are not perfect, but people can generally understand me.

I will visit a couple of the schools this Friday - probably Unity and AAA, and then TLA and Piammitr if I have time. I'll post any observations here.

Thanks again!

[AyG]

Being able to speak a little Thai before starting definitely helps. I particularly remember one Korean student who spoke no Thai at all. He really struggled. He repeated the bottom levels (1 & 2, I think) at least three times each, and then dropped out.

Personally, I could already read and write (albeit slowly) before I started. I don't think this really helped because reading and writing are introduced fairly gradually, and gave me a chance to speed up, rather than learning from scratch.

As I mentioned before, the pronunciation of the teachers is standard central Thai, so is really rather different from what you'll hear on the streets.

Something you might find worthwhile is seeking out the Pimsleur course and doing that first. It's all listening/speaking (no reading, even in Roman script). It should help with pronunciation and tones.

Also, learn the Mary Hass system of transcribing Thai using the Roman alphabet and some IPA characters. It's not difficult, and if you know it before you start the courses you'll be a step up.

[kriswillems]

I could speak a little bit of Thai (only very basic sentences) and had never lived in Thailand when I started the course (but I had spent a few holidays here). I had taught myself to read before starting the course.

I've always refused to use the phonetic script (Piammitr also had all books in Thai script). They let me start at book 2.

I skipped 2 books about reading/writing (I forgot which once) because I taught myself to read. All together I spent around 7 or 8 months at the school. My result on the government test were above average: 5,5,3,5 for receptively listening, reading, writing, speaking, were 3 is the average and 6 is the maximum (= university level of a native speaker). I think they were very generous with giving points, because I would rate myself at a much lower level.

Most students in the classroom were Asians. All students in the higher level courses were very motivated. Expect to work hard. In the lower level courses, we had a few Korean students (major Thai at a university in Korea) that were not motivated at all and slowed down the courses.

You could also consider going to Chula if money is not an issue and you're used to work hard (on university level).

I would advice you to start with book 2 or 3. There will be many things you already know, but there will also be some essential sentence constructions you need to know (and that you don't know yet). The union method is very much based on sentence constructions and fixed sentence patterns. I think it's important to know these constructions/patterns and they start in book 2. Most of them are repeated in book 3.

Edited October 17, 2011 by kriswillems

[outofoz]

Being able to speak a little Thai before starting definitely helps. I particularly remember one Korean student who spoke no Thai at all. He really struggled. He repeated the bottom levels (1 & 2, I think) at least three times each, and then dropped out.

Personally, I could already read and write (albeit slowly) before I started. I don't think this really helped because reading and writing are introduced fairly gradually, and gave me a chance to speed up, rather than learning from scratch.

As I mentioned before, the pronunciation of the teachers is standard central Thai, so is really rather different from what you'll hear on the streets.

Something you might find worthwhile is seeking out the Pimsleur course and doing that first. It's all listening/speaking (no reading, even in Roman script). It should help with pronunciation and tones.

Also, learn the Mary Hass system of transcribing Thai using the Roman alphabet and some IPA characters. It's not difficult, and if you know it before you start the courses you'll be a step up.

Some good tips there...i'll look into those..thanks

[outofoz]

You should find good evaluations of Schools at website "Women learning Thai" - particularily by Tod Daniels who was banned from this forum.

great tip! I found his past posts fairly helpful...ive bookmarked that website. Thanks!

[SteveMorrissey]

Kris, AyG - thanks again. I will look for the Pimsleur course and the Mary Haas system before I start my classroom lessons. I had considered Chula, but the main issue was that they don't provide ED visa support, and I don't have a visa to stay in Thailand.

I sent a few questions to AAA, Unity, and TLA via e-mail. I received a helpful response from AAA, a marginally helpful response from TLA, and no response from Unity.

I went to AAA yesterday and sat in a level 1 class for an hour. I knew most of the vocabulary (but realized that I have been saying a couple of things wrong for the last few years). The class was all Japanese students and the teacher was quite good and energetic.

I spoke at length with the owner/director of the school (K. Patcharee). I left with the impression that the school was professional and organized.

As December is a short month, I'll start with a ten day level one review course, and then move to level 2 in January.