Red Shirts Mimic Village Tactics Used By Rebels: Thai Opinion

[animatic]

I think most would agree that facts are whatever certain people want them to be.

Facts are facts, can't change that a jot.

But popular understanding of what is and isn't FACT,

can be and is regularly manipulated.

Doesn't change the facts though.

Can't argue with your logic animatic but would point out another old saying "perception is reality".

Certain ideas from physics, philosophy, sociology, literary criticism, and other fields shape various theories of reality. One such belief is that there simply and literally is no reality beyond the perceptions or beliefs we each have about reality.

Remember:

R. Amsterdams bread and butter business is not LAW,

but 'Perception Management' at international levels.

Turning a pigs arse into a silk purse, and then making you pay for it

at platinum card prices and give away the keys to the city for nothing.

But no matter what he does, he can't change facts, only mass perceptions turned AWAY from facts. The bigger the lie, told longer and louder, determines reality as perceived, but does NOT change facts.

Edited October 16, 2011 by animatic

[pimay11]

I think most would agree that facts are whatever certain people want them to be.

Especially for the red supporters and apologists on TV. They chose to ignore many blatant truths of the reds taking the law into their own hands, "their law". Pulling innocent people out of cars and beating them within an inch of their life, invading hospitals, on and on. They chose to ignore and not defend the following statement as can be seen on Youtube by a now sitting red MP whose name we all know."If you seize power from us, then we'll burn the whole country down. Burn it, burn everything, my brothers — Guarantee: Bangkok will turn into a sea of flames. Those of you who live in the country, it's OK if you cannot join us. If anything happens, just gather at your provincial or city halls. No need to wait for the order. Burn your city halls down to the ground." And they did!

I think they really know the truth but just post their nonsense to keep the discussion lively. If they only went to the fourth grade I could understand that they really don't see through the facade of the red leaders. I have to give them credit for one thing, they know exactly how to push the buttons of TV posters with any sembalance of common sence.

[BuckarooBanzai]

I think most would agree that facts are whatever certain people want them to be.

Facts are facts, can't change that a jot.

But popular understanding of what is and isn't FACT,

can be and is regularly manipulated.

Doesn't change the facts though.

Can't argue with your logic animatic but would point out another old saying "perception is reality".

Certain ideas from physics, philosophy, sociology, literary criticism, and other fields shape various theories of reality. One such belief is that there simply and literally is no reality beyond the perceptions or beliefs we each have about reality.

Remember:

R. Amsterdams bread and butter business is not LAW,

but 'Perception Management' at international levels.

Turning a pigs arse into a silk purse, and then making you pay for it

at platinum card prices and give away the keys to the city for nothing.

But no matter what he does, he can't change facts, only mass perceptions turned AWAY from facts. The bigger the lie, told longer and louder, determines reality as perceived, but does NOT change facts.

We both can agree on that one. True statements for a great many lawyers I would guess less the international aspect.

[473geo]

It's been said before Rubl........

How can Thaksin as a montenegran citizen, outside Thailand......be accused of taking part in Thai politics inside Thailand......he surely cannot be involved in Thai politics.......he may be offering advice but as a foreigner he has no say in Thai politics.....right?

You may wish to check the actual wording on the 'ban' from politics and let me know if all the above is taken into account?

Just wondering if something like this may be allowing his 'interference' without any repercussions

Thaksin is still a Thai citizen. Calling in to cabinet meetings is certainly being "involved in Thai politics".

Do you know if he had to take Montenegran citizenship to gain a passport? Do you know the exact wording of the 5 year ban?..........because until you can show that the ban is legally watertight and Thaksin in his current situation is breaking the rules, you are guessing. Are the opposition actively persuing the illegal party angle on this basis........seems to have slipped of the radar for the moment, do you have any idea why that is?

Just out of interest what does the law say about a sister asking her brother for advice? Did the Junta make that illegal too?

Are banned politicians also legally banned from making donations to political parties, or are they banned only from taking office, or standing for election?

When you can confidently supply the information above you will be some way qualified to assess the legal position of Thaksin according to the law

As for the red villages putting up posters of Thaksin, this will not enhance their position in my view, Thaksin is fading, only a minority of hardcore supporters,Tvisa lynchmob and the Nation appear to want to keep him in the limelight.

Edited October 16, 2011 by 473geo

[whybother]

Thaksin is still a Thai citizen. Calling in to cabinet meetings is certainly being "involved in Thai politics".

Do you know if he had to take Montenegran citizenship to gain a passport? Do you know the exact wording of the 5 year ban?..........because until you can show that the ban is legally watertight and Thaksin in his current situation is breaking the rules, you are guessing. Are the opposition actively persuing the illegal party angle on this basis........seems to have slipped of the radar for the moment, do you have any idea why that is?

Just out of interest what does the law say about a sister asking her brother for advice? Did the Junta make that illegal too?

Are banned politicians also legally banned from making donations to political parties, or are they banned only from taking office, or standing for election?

When you can confidently supply the information above you will be some way qualified to assess the legal position of Thaksin according to the law

As for the red villages putting up posters of Thaksin, this will not enhance their position in my view, Thaksin is fading, only a minority of hardcore supporters,Tvisa lynchmob and the Nation appear to want to keep him in the limelight.

Did I say ANYTHING about the legal aspects? Are either of my statements incorrect?

[TAWP]

As long as some of you see no issue with Thaksin flaunting the ban I have no understanding why any of you complain about Newin...(not even forgetting that his MP's was part of the PPP government and therefor was already flaunting his ban back then...)

Double-standards - what red shirts live for.

[473geo]

Thaksin is still a Thai citizen. Calling in to cabinet meetings is certainly being "involved in Thai politics".

Do you know if he had to take Montenegran citizenship to gain a passport? Do you know the exact wording of the 5 year ban?..........because until you can show that the ban is legally watertight and Thaksin in his current situation is breaking the rules, you are guessing. Are the opposition actively persuing the illegal party angle on this basis........seems to have slipped of the radar for the moment, do you have any idea why that is?

Just out of interest what does the law say about a sister asking her brother for advice? Did the Junta make that illegal too?

Are banned politicians also legally banned from making donations to political parties, or are they banned only from taking office, or standing for election?

When you can confidently supply the information above you will be some way qualified to assess the legal position of Thaksin according to the law

As for the red villages putting up posters of Thaksin, this will not enhance their position in my view, Thaksin is fading, only a minority of hardcore supporters,Tvisa lynchmob and the Nation appear to want to keep him in the limelight.

Did I say ANYTHING about the legal aspects? Are either of my statements incorrect?

Oh right, so Thaksin may actually be doing nothing wrong by calling into cabinet meetings........ok accepted.......

[whybother]

Thaksin is still a Thai citizen. Calling in to cabinet meetings is certainly being "involved in Thai politics".

Do you know if he had to take Montenegran citizenship to gain a passport? Do you know the exact wording of the 5 year ban?..........because until you can show that the ban is legally watertight and Thaksin in his current situation is breaking the rules, you are guessing. Are the opposition actively persuing the illegal party angle on this basis........seems to have slipped of the radar for the moment, do you have any idea why that is?

Just out of interest what does the law say about a sister asking her brother for advice? Did the Junta make that illegal too?

Are banned politicians also legally banned from making donations to political parties, or are they banned only from taking office, or standing for election?

When you can confidently supply the information above you will be some way qualified to assess the legal position of Thaksin according to the law

As for the red villages putting up posters of Thaksin, this will not enhance their position in my view, Thaksin is fading, only a minority of hardcore supporters,Tvisa lynchmob and the Nation appear to want to keep him in the limelight.

Did I say ANYTHING about the legal aspects? Are either of my statements incorrect?

Oh right, so Thaksin may actually be doing nothing wrong by calling into cabinet meetings........ok accepted.......

Once again. Did I say ANYTHING about the legal aspects?

[473geo]

Thaksin is still a Thai citizen. Calling in to cabinet meetings is certainly being "involved in Thai politics".

Did I say ANYTHING about the legal aspects? Are either of my statements incorrect?

Oh right, so Thaksin may actually be doing nothing wrong by calling into cabinet meetings........ok accepted.......

Once again. Did I say ANYTHING about the legal aspects?

Given that the content of my post questioned the legality of the accusations being raised against Thaksin, and the actual context and content of the 'ban' which may or may not confirm illegal activity..............I guess your response was a bit of a non event.......accepted

Edited October 16, 2011 by 473geo

[pimay11]

It's been said before Rubl........

How can Thaksin as a montenegran citizen, outside Thailand......be accused of taking part in Thai politics inside Thailand......he surely cannot be involved in Thai politics.......he may be offering advice but as a foreigner he has no say in Thai politics.....right?

You may wish to check the actual wording on the 'ban' from politics and let me know if all the above is taken into account?

Just wondering if something like this may be allowing his 'interference' without any repercussions

Thaksin is still a Thai citizen. Calling in to cabinet meetings is certainly being "involved in Thai politics".

Do you know if he had to take Montenegran citizenship to gain a passport? Do you know the exact wording of the 5 year ban?..........because until you can show that the ban is legally watertight and Thaksin in his current situation is breaking the rules, you are guessing. Are the opposition actively persuing the illegal party angle on this basis........seems to have slipped of the radar for the moment, do you have any idea why that is?

Just out of interest what does the law say about a sister asking her brother for advice? Did the Junta make that illegal too?

Are banned politicians also legally banned from making donations to political parties, or are they banned only from taking office, or standing for election?

When you can confidently supply the information above you will be some way qualified to assess the legal position of Thaksin according to the law

As for the red villages putting up posters of Thaksin, this will not enhance their position in my view, Thaksin is fading, only a minority of hardcore supporters,Tvisa lynchmob and the Nation appear to want to keep him in the limelight.

Your view is immaterial to red villages and villagers. They are under the impression although totally missled by Jatupon and the big boss that K T is their savior and will return triumphanly to save them from the "Elites" in Bangkok and make them all rich. They fail to realize for some unknown reason that K T is one of the biggest Thai "Elites" ever to walk this land.

You are 100% correct in saying putting up posters of Thaksin will not enhance their position with anyone who has the common sense to realize how much they have been hoodwinked. It will inhance their position temporarly within the red ranks and K T who is using them like the Pied Piper.

Please contunue posting your rheotric, your post get more outrageous day by day and give us all a laugh.

[whybother]

Given that the content of my post questioned the legality of the accusations being raised against Thaksin, and the actual context and content of the 'ban' which may or may not confirm illegal activity..............I guess your respose was a bit of a non event.......accepted

Let me go back to the original post, shall I?

It's been said before Rubl........

How can Thaksin as a montenegran citizen, outside Thailand......be accused of taking part in Thai politics inside Thailand......he surely cannot be involved in Thai politics.......he may be offering advice but as a foreigner he has no say in Thai politics.....right?

You may wish to check the actual wording on the 'ban' from politics and let me know if all the above is taken into account?

Just wondering if something like this may be allowing his 'interference' without any repercussions

Thaksin is still a Thai citizen. Calling in to cabinet meetings is certainly being "involved in Thai politics".

Thaksin is not a "foreigner". He is a Thai citizen.

He is calling into government cabinet meetings. That would indicate that he is "involved in Thai politics".

Edited October 16, 2011 by whybother

[473geo]

It's been said before Rubl........

How can Thaksin as a montenegran citizen, outside Thailand......be accused of taking part in Thai politics inside Thailand......he surely cannot be involved in Thai politics.......he may be offering advice but as a foreigner he has no say in Thai politics.....right?

You may wish to check the actual wording on the 'ban' from politics and let me know if all the above is taken into account?

Just wondering if something like this may be allowing his 'interference' without any repercussions

Thaksin is still a Thai citizen. Calling in to cabinet meetings is certainly being "involved in Thai politics".

Do you know if he had to take Montenegran citizenship to gain a passport? Do you know the exact wording of the 5 year ban?..........because until you can show that the ban is legally watertight and Thaksin in his current situation is breaking the rules, you are guessing. Are the opposition actively persuing the illegal party angle on this basis........seems to have slipped of the radar for the moment, do you have any idea why that is?

Just out of interest what does the law say about a sister asking her brother for advice? Did the Junta make that illegal too?

Are banned politicians also legally banned from making donations to political parties, or are they banned only from taking office, or standing for election?

When you can confidently supply the information above you will be some way qualified to assess the legal position of Thaksin according to the law

As for the red villages putting up posters of Thaksin, this will not enhance their position in my view, Thaksin is fading, only a minority of hardcore supporters,Tvisa lynchmob and the Nation appear to want to keep him in the limelight.

Your view is immaterial to red villages and villagers. They are under the impression although totally missled by Jatupon and the big boss that K T is their savior and will return triumphanly to save them from the "Elites" in Bangkok and make them all rich. They fail to realize for some unknown reason that K T is one of the biggest Thai "Elites" ever to walk this land.

You are 100% correct in saying putting up posters of Thaksin will not enhance their position with anyone who has the common sense to realize how much they have been hoodwinked. It will inhance their position temporarly within the red ranks and K T who is using them like the Pied Piper.

Please contunue posting your rheotric, your post get more outrageous day by day and give us all a laugh.

I have no issue if you attempt to ridicule my posting

The ease at which you and others insult the intelligence of the Thai people is as astounding as it is disgusting.....

[473geo]

Given that the content of my post questioned the legality of the accusations being raised against Thaksin, and the actual context and content of the 'ban' which may or may not confirm illegal activity..............I guess your respose was a bit of a non event.......accepted

Let me go back to the original post, shall I?

It's been said before Rubl........

How can Thaksin as a montenegran citizen, outside Thailand......be accused of taking part in Thai politics inside Thailand......he surely cannot be involved in Thai politics.......he may be offering advice but as a foreigner he has no say in Thai politics.....right?

You may wish to check the actual wording on the 'ban' from politics and let me know if all the above is taken into account?

Just wondering if something like this may be allowing his 'interference' without any repercussions

Thaksin is still a Thai citizen. Calling in to cabinet meetings is certainly being "involved in Thai politics".

Thaksin is not a "foreigner". He is a Thai citizen.

He is calling into government cabinet meetings. That would indicate that he is "involved in Thai politics".

Forget your predjudice for a moment

Could Thaksin now be legally classed as a Motenegran citizen?.........as such, would Thai law be applicable to a Montenegran citizen outside of Thailand?

Just pointing out a possibilty.....

[whybother]

Forget your predjudice for a moment

Could Thaksin now be legally classed as a Motenegran citizen?.........as such, would Thai law be applicable to a Montenegran citizen outside of Thailand?

Just pointing out a possibilty.....

Prejudice has nothing to do with it.

Thaksin may be a Montenegrin citizen. But that is irrelevant, because he is also a Thai citizen.

[MAJIC]

I guess the democrats didn't get to past stage one

and you show respect to Thaksin by intimating he can achieve 6 further stages.....

Maybe he should be running the country

Sorry to disappoint you geo,there is no respect for Thaksin from me,never has been,and never will be,

A weak propaganda effort!

[473geo]

Forget your predjudice for a moment

Could Thaksin now be legally classed as a Motenegran citizen?.........as such, would Thai law be applicable to a Montenegran citizen outside of Thailand?

Just pointing out a possibilty.....

Prejudice has nothing to do with it.

Thaksin may be a Montenegrin citizen. But that is irrelevant, because he is also a Thai citizen.

Irrelevant in your opinion....to support your belief that Thaksin is breaking the rules......but legally....I wonder...I will keep an open mind until more accurate information is forthcoming

[473geo]

I guess the democrats didn't get to past stage one

and you show respect to Thaksin by intimating he can achieve 6 further stages.....

Maybe he should be running the country

Sorry to disappoint you geo,there is no respect for Thaksin from me,never has been,and never will be,

A weak propaganda effort!

Apparently no room for appreciation of flippancy either......

[pimay11]

<snip>

Easy there, I in no way insult the intelligence of the Thai people or cast dispersions on their intelligence. I have lived in Thailand for sixteen years and do not assume to be a judge of anyone's intelligence. What I'm saying that the poor people of this land are desprate to inrich their lives which is fine. K T and his minions are deciving these people to believe a pie in the sky plan. K T could care less about the poor of Thailand and surely you know this. It is obvoius to anyone with half a brain that his plan is to use them or any other means to recover his seized ill gotten gains that he took from these very people along with the rest of us who pay taxes in this country , return to Thailand, enrich himself more and live happily ever after.

As for ridiculing your posts I am stating a fact not ridicule. Surely to goodness you do not believe what you are posting. But if so then that is your right. To each his/her own opinion.

Edited October 16, 2011 by metisdead
Messed up quotes removed.

[whybother]

Irrelevant in your opinion....to support your belief that Thaksin is breaking the rules......but legally....I wonder...I will keep an open mind until more accurate information is forthcoming

No. Legally irrelevant. Thaksin is a Thai citizen.

If you can show me anything that suggests that Thaksin is NOT a Thai citizen, please do. Until then, it is irrelevant that he is a citizen of Montenegro in relation to him breaking Thai laws.

[473geo]

@pimay11

Like many others here you cannot move past Thaksin.........

A post on this thread earlier suggested Thaksin could be being used as a patsy......think about it.....he has initiated the change, now it is time for the people to use this to their advantage......they have a voice

I can see the day ahead when Thailand moves away from Thaksin, I do not feel it is as far as some think, I think thaksin is fading and will fade, I think the red villages carry little threat and are a bit of bravado, I think they too will fade.

I believe this because the Thai people I know are intelligent enough to move their country forward

You appear to think this is not the case......as you say each to their own

[pimay11]

@pimay11

Like many others here you cannot move past Thaksin.........

A post on this thread earlier suggested Thaksin could be being used as a patsy......think about it.....he has initiated the change, now it is time for the people to use this to their advantage......they have a voice

I can see the day ahead when Thailand moves away from Thaksin, I do not feel it is as far as some think, I think thaksin is fading and will fade, I think the red villages carry little threat and are a bit of bravado, I think they too will fade.

I believe this because the Thai people I know are intelligent enough to move their country forward

You appear to think this is not the case......as you say each to their own

Of course I can move past Thaksin if conditions permit. I would gladly do this and hopefully so. But the truth of the matter is that Thaksin himself will not allow this. Until the red people realize they are being used only for his benifit and the benifit of a certain number of his close companions this will not happen. I hope you are right and your prediction happens quickly but with his sister as PM and following his every command, his extended family members in charge of the Police force, ect it will take some time and soul searching by the reds to realize thay are only pawns in his overall plan. Here in Udon Thani they will have to fade a lot as I have been advised by my maid not to make my opinion known outside my home.

[473geo]

Irrelevant in your opinion....to support your belief that Thaksin is breaking the rules......but legally....I wonder...I will keep an open mind until more accurate information is forthcoming

No. Legally irrelevant. Thaksin is a Thai citizen.

If you can show me anything that suggests that Thaksin is NOT a Thai citizen, please do. Until then, it is irrelevant that he is a citizen of Montenegro in relation to him breaking Thai laws.

Last I heard he was a Montenegran citizen as confirmed by the Montenegran Police, you know different?

[whybother]

Irrelevant in your opinion....to support your belief that Thaksin is breaking the rules......but legally....I wonder...I will keep an open mind until more accurate information is forthcoming

No. Legally irrelevant. Thaksin is a Thai citizen.

If you can show me anything that suggests that Thaksin is NOT a Thai citizen, please do. Until then, it is irrelevant that he is a citizen of Montenegro in relation to him breaking Thai laws.

Last I heard he was a Montenegran citizen as confirmed by the Montenegran Police, you know different?

I didn't say he wasn't a Montenegrin citizen. That doesn't stop him from being a Thai citizen.

Edited October 16, 2011 by whybother

[473geo]

@pimay11

Like many others here you cannot move past Thaksin.........

A post on this thread earlier suggested Thaksin could be being used as a patsy......think about it.....he has initiated the change, now it is time for the people to use this to their advantage......they have a voice

I can see the day ahead when Thailand moves away from Thaksin, I do not feel it is as far as some think, I think thaksin is fading and will fade, I think the red villages carry little threat and are a bit of bravado, I think they too will fade.

I believe this because the Thai people I know are intelligent enough to move their country forward

You appear to think this is not the case......as you say each to their own

Of course I can move past Thaksin if conditions permit. I would gladly do this and hopefully so. But the truth of the matter is that Thaksin himself will not allow this. Until the red people realize they are being used only for his benifit and the benifit of a certain number of his close companions this will not happen. I hope you are right and your prediction happens quickly but with his sister as PM and following his every command, his extended family members in charge of the Police force, ect it will take some time and soul searching by the reds to realize thay are only pawns in his overall plan. Here in Udon Thani they will have to fade a lot as I have been advised by my maid not to make my opinion known outside my home.

The success in having a PTP government is a double edged sword. If the government deliver, Thailand moves forward, standard of living increases, all is good. If the government fails there will be no credible available excuses, and quite rightly they should be voted out. Now if any of you panic merchants looked realistically at the last election result it was actually quite close. So the democrats need to get to work, at very least to put this government under pressure to deliver, by having a reasonable chance of winning the next election. This is where Thailand can benefit from the last election........the base is laid for accountability to the public

You've got to admit, living in an area that could be termed the 'red' heartland, you are rather promoting a view of hornets from inside the nest....outside the nest it is a different world........I closely watch the reactions of the Thai people, they can say more when they say nothing, it is neither acceptance nor agreement, I watch them take in what they are told, think about it, and decide if it is worth the effort to contradict.......but do not mistake this for subserviance, they will speak up when they feel the time is right...I have witnessed this

FYI your maid gives sound advice, I never discuss politics at all in Thailand, my wife occasionally tells me who she wants to win the local puyai election that's about it, let Thailand make it's own way.....it can and it will.....

[pastitche]

Irrelevant in your opinion....to support your belief that Thaksin is breaking the rules......but legally....I wonder...I will keep an open mind until more accurate information is forthcoming

No. Legally irrelevant. Thaksin is a Thai citizen.

If you can show me anything that suggests that Thaksin is NOT a Thai citizen, please do. Until then, it is irrelevant that he is a citizen of Montenegro in relation to him breaking Thai laws.

Last I heard he was a Montenegran citizen as confirmed by the Montenegran Police, you know different?

I didn't say he wasn't a Montenegrin citizen. That doesn't stop him from being a Thai citizen.

I am not sure whether he has dual nationality but I do recall looking at the relevant legislation on what a banned politician could not do and it appeared to me that it meant only holding a formal position within a party; if that is true, and the lack of any action to ban PTP seems to suggest that there is not a case to answer in Thaksin's obvious unofficial involvement then he can continue to "advise" to his heart's content. Breaking the law has to mean infringing what the law actually says, not what you think it should say.

[whybother]

I am not sure whether he has dual nationality but I do recall looking at the relevant legislation on what a banned politician could not do and it appeared to me that it meant only holding a formal position within a party; if that is true, and the lack of any action to ban PTP seems to suggest that there is not a case to answer in Thaksin's obvious unofficial involvement then he can continue to "advise" to his heart's content. Breaking the law has to mean infringing what the law actually says, not what you think it should say.

Agreed. From what I've read about it over the last few months, there doesn't seem to be any problem with Thaksin being involved ... as much as I disagree with it.

[rubl]

I am not sure whether he has dual nationality but I do recall looking at the relevant legislation on what a banned politician could not do and it appeared to me that it meant only holding a formal position within a party; if that is true, and the lack of any action to ban PTP seems to suggest that there is not a case to answer in Thaksin's obvious unofficial involvement then he can continue to "advise" to his heart's content. Breaking the law has to mean infringing what the law actually says, not what you think it should say.

Agreed. From what I've read about it over the last few months, there doesn't seem to be any problem with Thaksin being involved ... as much as I disagree with it.

I guess that means being owner of a political party is not against the law. Consequently being owner of a political party which just happens to have formed the new government and provided the new PM is not against the law. TiT

[serenitynow]

As long as some of you see no issue with Thaksin flaunting the ban I have no understanding why any of you complain about Newin...(not even forgetting that his MP's was part of the PPP government and therefor was already flaunting his ban back then...)

Double-standards - what red shirts live for.

And Banharn is soaked in Teflon apparently.

[MAJIC]

I guess the democrats didn't get to past stage one

and you show respect to Thaksin by intimating he can achieve 6 further stages.....

Maybe he should be running the country

Sorry to disappoint you geo,there is no respect for Thaksin from me,never has been,and never will be,

A weak propaganda effort!

Apparently no room for appreciation of flippancy either......

The subject,of a Meglomanic,Despot,Criminal,inflicting more damage,on Thailand,which will no doubt continue with extreme vigour on his return,is much too serious a subject for jest or flippancy!

[473geo]

The subject,of a Meglomanic,Despot,Criminal,inflicting more damage,on Thailand,which will no doubt continue with extreme vigour on his return,is much too serious a subject for jest or flippancy!

or sarcasm......