PM Enlists More Army Help: Thailand Flood

[h90]

Six posts so far in response to the useful article on the army's assistance - all of them childishly and pointlessly trying to make political capital of the current flooding disaster.

What do you expect? Yingluck messed it up by not being allowed to activate the Emergency laws. Causing more damage than necessary.

Now when everything is almost over she makes some smart speeches about more military.

Even a Thaksin supporter must agree that this is ridiculous

At last we have a Prime Minister giving orders to the Army, and not like the previous incumbent who had to go to army barracks to receive his orders. Good for Yingluck.

I would prefer a Prime Minister who isn't to proud to tell that he/she don't know how to manage such an extreme crises and give it to the specialists. She can tell the priorities, but leave the planning and groundwork to the army. No shame in it and it might have saved us from some problems.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post and the replies to it have been removed.

[ginjag]

Six posts so far in response to the useful article on the army's assistance - all of them childishly and pointlessly trying to make political capital of the current flooding disaster.

Agreed. Even a Dem party spokesperson could do a better job of criticizing the government than this lot. Although even a Dem party spokesperson would show some restraint given the serious nature of this natural disaster.

Apart from your childish response about 6 childish responses, and your completely one sided unreal stance in favour of the new government and it's handling of everything, including the P.M.s lack of experience needed in times like this, WHAT would you Both have done yourselves in this situation, Given out condoms and wellingtons and 1000 boats ignored the army until the last minute, not mobilised and utilised the police to more effect, please don't defend the authorities, be a critic when needed, would improve your image on forum. Go on attack me now for giving out some truths :jap:

I don't criticize because I cannot come up with a better way of handling the floods based on the information we are fed through the media. Decisions are based on information. Do you think you are privy to more than a fraction of the information pertaining to the flood situation that the government has access to? I'm not saying that the government is taking all the right decisions, I'm saying that their decisions are considerably better informed than the ones you and your nay-saying friends on this forum would take.

Of course everyone would want this to be better handled. That is a given, and not the basis of any coherent criticism of any government that finds itself having to deal with this kind of thing. But the outcome of what you would do to improve the situation can never be known and is only the opinion of someone with a track record of knocking the government at every available opportunity, no matter how inappropriate.

I really can't fathom why it is impossible for some people to understand that dismissing some criticism as being childish/inappropriate is not the same thing as agreeing with everything about the person/group being criticized. This is the kind of shallow thinking that you and your gov/red hating friends frequently attribute to your favorite targets (what, no freedom of thought?), and yet dogmatically pursue the same MO day in day out.

Look I am not anti Reds or anti P.T. I stand and post what and when I feel something is amiss, weather that be Dems or any other body-Army -Hi SOs-M.P.s-Police, I notice you seem to side on the Thaksin + reds, I do not defend WRONG. Look at my post and see--how anyone cannot shake their head at the governments suggestions, condoms-wellingtons-1000 boats-where are the police-why call the army in too late---and please do not link me to anyone and government hating friends I don't have, I will agree with many if they talk the truth about whats wrong. That is not government hating -SOME criticism is stupid and one sided, but to be in denial most of the time and seen to be supporting a self greedy regime is beyond me. If I thought you were neutral and bash when needed, fine, but you never supported my comment on the -condoms-the 1000 boats-the wellington give away, so my question to you is why do I not see you bash the wrongs that are evident.?????

[hanuman1]

Apart from your childish response about 6 childish responses, and your completely one sided unreal stance in favour of the new government and it's handling of everything, including the P.M.s lack of experience needed in times like this, WHAT would you Both have done yourselves in this situation, Given out condoms and wellingtons and 1000 boats ignored the army until the last minute, not mobilised and utilised the police to more effect, please don't defend the authorities, be a critic when needed, would improve your image on forum. Go on attack me now for giving out some truths :jap:

I don't criticize because I cannot come up with a better way of handling the floods based on the information we are fed through the media. Decisions are based on information. Do you think you are privy to more than a fraction of the information pertaining to the flood situation that the government has access to? I'm not saying that the government is taking all the right decisions, I'm saying that their decisions are considerably better informed than the ones you and your nay-saying friends on this forum would take.

Of course everyone would want this to be better handled. That is a given, and not the basis of any coherent criticism of any government that finds itself having to deal with this kind of thing. But the outcome of what you would do to improve the situation can never be known and is only the opinion of someone with a track record of knocking the government at every available opportunity, no matter how inappropriate.

I really can't fathom why it is impossible for some people to understand that dismissing some criticism as being childish/inappropriate is not the same thing as agreeing with everything about the person/group being criticized. This is the kind of shallow thinking that you and your gov/red hating friends frequently attribute to your favorite targets (what, no freedom of thought?), and yet dogmatically pursue the same MO day in day out.

Look I am not anti Reds or anti P.T. I stand and post what and when I feel something is amiss, weather that be Dems or any other body-Army -Hi SOs-M.P.s-Police, I notice you seem to side on the Thaksin + reds, I do not defend WRONG. Look at my post and see--how anyone cannot shake their head at the governments suggestions, condoms-wellingtons-1000 boats-where are the police-why call the army in too late---and please do not link me to anyone and government hating friends I don't have, I will agree with many if they talk the truth about whats wrong. That is not government hating -SOME criticism is stupid and one sided, but to be in denial most of the time and seen to be supporting a self greedy regime is beyond me. If I thought you were neutral and bash when needed, fine, but you never supported my comment on the -condoms-the 1000 boats-the wellington give away, so my question to you is why do I not see you bash the wrongs that are evident.?????

Okay, to answer your question:

condoms - whilst there's never a particularly bad time to give out free condoms, as a response to flooding this clearly doesn't help. Obviously there's been a screw-up somewhere. Is this screw-up directly related to government policy? Incompetence at the operational level? Down to an NGO? Did Yingluck, or any cabinet minister for that matter, ever say "let's send them condoms?" I don't know. Do you?

1,000 boats - at best, this seems like a desperate measure. The government may feel like they are in a desperate situation. This measure may be one of many being implement to mitigate the flooding problem. It happens to be both high-profile and desperate. Other measures are not so high profile and may be more effective. I'm not sure. Are you?

Wellington boots - since sandals are the footwear of choice for most people, even in areas where flooding is higher than the top of a pair of wellies, these boots afford more protection from getting cuts on the feet in submerged areas than sandals. Getting cut on the foot in a flooded area can give rise to infections and boots can help in this regard, wouldn't you agree?

So all in all I can't see why the government should be 'bashed', as you put it, for these 'wrongs that are evident'. At worst, one or two of them could be considered mistakes and indeed governments can and do get punished for their mistakes in office, but given the scale of the situation and the absence - due to the fluid (sorry) nature of the situation - of a coherent alternative plan put forward by any other political players, I just don't see how any political capital can be gained by opponents of the government, or justification established for much 'bashing'.

From my own experience of flooding a couple of weeks ago in Chiang Mai, I was almost embarrassed by the amount of free food and water we were given as our water pump had died and there were no running taps in the house. We didn't even have to go out and get it - it was brought to us by the organization concerned with the operation.

Now, I wouldn't be as narrow minded as some other posters in assuming that my own experience was mirrored everywhere else. No doubt others had it far worse. The point is that some things were done right (which I experienced) and some things weren't (which I didn't experience, but can nevertheless accept).

That's why I can't stand these perpetual bashers of the government in this flooding episode. Their agenda is not to portray an accurate picture of the prevention/response measures put in by the government. It is simply to knock the government, which they do daily on almost any issue that hits the news.

Edited October 17, 2011 by hanuman1

[serenitynow]

Apart from your childish response about 6 childish responses, and your completely one sided unreal stance in favour of the new government and it's handling of everything, including the P.M.s lack of experience needed in times like this, WHAT would you Both have done yourselves in this situation, Given out condoms and wellingtons and 1000 boats ignored the army until the last minute, not mobilised and utilised the police to more effect, please don't defend the authorities, be a critic when needed, would improve your image on forum. Go on attack me now for giving out some truths :jap:

I don't criticize because I cannot come up with a better way of handling the floods based on the information we are fed through the media. Decisions are based on information. Do you think you are privy to more than a fraction of the information pertaining to the flood situation that the government has access to? I'm not saying that the government is taking all the right decisions, I'm saying that their decisions are considerably better informed than the ones you and your nay-saying friends on this forum would take.

Of course everyone would want this to be better handled. That is a given, and not the basis of any coherent criticism of any government that finds itself having to deal with this kind of thing. But the outcome of what you would do to improve the situation can never be known and is only the opinion of someone with a track record of knocking the government at every available opportunity, no matter how inappropriate.

I really can't fathom why it is impossible for some people to understand that dismissing some criticism as being childish/inappropriate is not the same thing as agreeing with everything about the person/group being criticized. This is the kind of shallow thinking that you and your gov/red hating friends frequently attribute to your favorite targets (what, no freedom of thought?), and yet dogmatically pursue the same MO day in day out.

Look I am not anti Reds or anti P.T. I stand and post what and when I feel something is amiss, weather that be Dems or any other body-Army -Hi SOs-M.P.s-Police, I notice you seem to side on the Thaksin + reds, I do not defend WRONG. Look at my post and see--how anyone cannot shake their head at the governments suggestions, condoms-wellingtons-1000 boats-where are the police-why call the army in too late---and please do not link me to anyone and government hating friends I don't have, I will agree with many if they talk the truth about whats wrong. That is not government hating -SOME criticism is stupid and one sided, but to be in denial most of the time and seen to be supporting a self greedy regime is beyond me. If I thought you were neutral and bash when needed, fine, but you never supported my comment on the -condoms-the 1000 boats-the wellington give away, so my question to you is why do I not see you bash the wrongs that are evident.?????

Okay, to answer your question:

condoms - whilst there's never a particularly bad time to give out free condoms, as a response to flooding this clearly doesn't help. Obviously there's been a screw-up somewhere. Is this screw-up directly related to government policy? Incompetence at the operational level? Down to an NGO? Did Yingluck, or any cabinet minister for that matter, ever say "let's send them condoms?" I don't know. Do you?

1,000 boats - at best, this seems like a desperate measure. The government may feel like they are in a desperate situation. This measure may be one of many being implement to mitigate the flooding problem. It happens to be both high-profile and desperate. Other measures are not so high profile and may be more effective. I'm not sure. Are you?

Wellington boots - since sandals are the footwear of choice for most people, even in areas where flooding is higher than the top of a pair of wellies, these boots afford more protection from getting cuts on the feet in submerged areas than sandals. Getting cut on the foot in a flooded area can give rise to infections and boots can help in this regard, wouldn't you agree?

So all in all I can't see why the government should be 'bashed', as you put it, for these 'wrongs that are evident'. At worst, one or two of them could be considered mistakes and indeed governments can and do get punished for their mistakes in office, but given the scale of the situation and the absence - due to the fluid (sorry) nature of the situation - of a coherent alternative plan put forward by any other political players, I just don't see how any political capital can be gained by opponents of the government, or justification established for much 'bashing'.

From my own experience of flooding a couple of weeks ago in Chiang Mai, I was almost embarrassed by the amount of free food and water we were given as our water pump had died and there were no running taps in the house. We didn't even have to go out and get it - it was brought to us by the organization concerned with the operation.

Now, I wouldn't be as narrow minded as some other posters in assuming that my own experience of the flood response was mirrored everywhere else. No doubt others had it far worse. The point is that some things were done right (which I experienced) and some things weren't (which I didn't experience, but can nevertheless accept).

That's why I can't stand these perpetual bashers of the government in this flooding episode. Their agenda is not to portray an accurate picture of the prevention/response measures put in by the government. It is simply to knock the government, which they do daily on any issue that hits the news.

You make the sceptics point rather well. The area flooded in Chiang Mai was much much less than even 1% of the area currently flooded in the Central Provinces. The flooding disappeard from Chiang Mai in the period of 1-2 days depending on wheer you live. It affected a tiny percentage of the population and those not affected, given their caring natures, were only to willing to "take care" of those beset by "The Water goddess". Compare and contrast that with those suffering in the Central Provinces. Many have been inundated by flood waters for more than a month. The escalation of the misery they might siffer has been well known for weeks given Chiang mai's flooding. What did the government do in the interin to help mitigate the suffering of these people? What and when did the government do/plan relief efforts for these millions of people suffering. The answer is NOTHING! In light of that maybe you have to ask your self what is a government's function, if not to serve it's constituents. In that same period we saw this same government try to get fugitives visas. We saw them seeking amnesty for crininals, we saw them reneging on all their campaign promises ( except for corporate tax cuts), but we never, ever saw them even try to pay lipservice to the needs of the Thai citizens. They are an arroant, incompetent (criminally so) lot. Ayone who would defend them I find reprehensible.

[hanuman1]

Look I am not anti Reds or anti P.T. I stand and post what and when I feel something is amiss, weather that be Dems or any other body-Army -Hi SOs-M.P.s-Police, I notice you seem to side on the Thaksin + reds, I do not defend WRONG. Look at my post and see--how anyone cannot shake their head at the governments suggestions, condoms-wellingtons-1000 boats-where are the police-why call the army in too late---and please do not link me to anyone and government hating friends I don't have, I will agree with many if they talk the truth about whats wrong. That is not government hating -SOME criticism is stupid and one sided, but to be in denial most of the time and seen to be supporting a self greedy regime is beyond me. If I thought you were neutral and bash when needed, fine, but you never supported my comment on the -condoms-the 1000 boats-the wellington give away, so my question to you is why do I not see you bash the wrongs that are evident.?????

Okay, to answer your question:

condoms - whilst there's never a particularly bad time to give out free condoms, as a response to flooding this clearly doesn't help. Obviously there's been a screw-up somewhere. Is this screw-up directly related to government policy? Incompetence at the operational level? Down to an NGO? Did Yingluck, or any cabinet minister for that matter, ever say "let's send them condoms?" I don't know. Do you?

1,000 boats - at best, this seems like a desperate measure. The government may feel like they are in a desperate situation. This measure may be one of many being implement to mitigate the flooding problem. It happens to be both high-profile and desperate. Other measures are not so high profile and may be more effective. I'm not sure. Are you?

Wellington boots - since sandals are the footwear of choice for most people, even in areas where flooding is higher than the top of a pair of wellies, these boots afford more protection from getting cuts on the feet in submerged areas than sandals. Getting cut on the foot in a flooded area can give rise to infections and boots can help in this regard, wouldn't you agree?

So all in all I can't see why the government should be 'bashed', as you put it, for these 'wrongs that are evident'. At worst, one or two of them could be considered mistakes and indeed governments can and do get punished for their mistakes in office, but given the scale of the situation and the absence - due to the fluid (sorry) nature of the situation - of a coherent alternative plan put forward by any other political players, I just don't see how any political capital can be gained by opponents of the government, or justification established for much 'bashing'.

From my own experience of flooding a couple of weeks ago in Chiang Mai, I was almost embarrassed by the amount of free food and water we were given as our water pump had died and there were no running taps in the house. We didn't even have to go out and get it - it was brought to us by the organization concerned with the operation.

Now, I wouldn't be as narrow minded as some other posters in assuming that my own experience of the flood response was mirrored everywhere else. No doubt others had it far worse. The point is that some things were done right (which I experienced) and some things weren't (which I didn't experience, but can nevertheless accept).

That's why I can't stand these perpetual bashers of the government in this flooding episode. Their agenda is not to portray an accurate picture of the prevention/response measures put in by the government. It is simply to knock the government, which they do daily on any issue that hits the news.

You make the sceptics point rather well. The area flooded in Chiang Mai was much much less than even 1% of the area currently flooded in the Central Provinces. The flooding disappeard from Chiang Mai in the period of 1-2 days depending on wheer you live. It affected a tiny percentage of the population and those not affected, given their caring natures, were only to willing to "take care" of those beset by "The Water goddess". Compare and contrast that with those suffering in the Central Provinces. Many have been inundated by flood waters for more than a month. The escalation of the misery they might siffer has been well known for weeks given Chiang mai's flooding. What did the government do in the interin to help mitigate the suffering of these people? What and when did the government do/plan relief efforts for these millions of people suffering. The answer is NOTHING! In light of that maybe you have to ask your self what is a government's function, if not to serve it's constituents. In that same period we saw this same government try to get fugitives visas. We saw them seeking amnesty for crininals, we saw them reneging on all their campaign promises ( except for corporate tax cuts), but we never, ever saw them even try to pay lipservice to the needs of the Thai citizens. They are an arroant, incompetent (criminally so) lot. Ayone who would defend them I find reprehensible.

What did the government do in the interin to help mitigate the suffering of these people? What and when did the government do/plan relief efforts for these millions of people suffering. The answer is NOTHING!

So according to your rather forceful summation, no sand bags were put up, no warnings issued during that period. Or are you saying this simply because the area got flooded, therefore it stands to reason that NOTHING had been done?

As for your other bugbears, I wouldn't refute all of them. Like your government-hating friends, you mix the plausible with the purely bilious and condemn anyone that disagrees with either. A bit like your average red-shirt leader, I'm led to believe.

Edited October 17, 2011 by hanuman1

[Buchholz]

<snip>

I'm not going to apologize for the government's incompetence.

<snip>

Progress

<snip>

And they are still rather popular.

Abac Poll, 79 per cent said the government's support was insufficient

.

[metisdead]

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