British Man Cured Of Hiv

the scouser · November 14, 2005

This man's recovery from HIV actually occurred some time ago and has only now become apparent because he tried to sue the NHS for a negligent misdiagnosis. The hospital in question checked and rechecked again the tests conducted and he now accepts that there is no case to answer; the corollary being that both the initial positive diagnosis and subsequent negative one were correct; i.e. he has managed to expunge the virus from his system.

As Digger commented, the chap was tested on multiple occasions over a prolonged period of time, and for each and every test to manifest itself as a false positive beggars belief. Certainly, I have far greater faith in the knowledge and abilities of HIV-specialist doctors than some of the ill-informed quacks who have posted in this thread.

No-one is suggesting that this man's apparent recovery is going to provide the panacea but it is well worth investigating.

Scouse.

Fast Eddie · November 14, 2005

If his CD4 levels didnt require him to take medication then I cant see how that those levels could prove HIV, a CD4 count can be affected by many other diseases as can some of the other HIV tests.
They cant count the virus in his blood as one poster stated, seeing as no-one has yet managed to identify the virus. What they do is test for Antibodies (Which is how you would normally test to see if someone is immune to a virus) and then they check the blood to see if some of the effects of HIV are present (effects which other diseases also have).

Both standard HIV tests can return false positives, Its probably just a coincidence.

HIV medicine doesnt involve boosting the immune system, it involves destroying it from what I've read, AZT was used primarily for Chemotherapy until it was shelved for being too toxic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually Ben, what they do with the viral load tests is measure the amount of HIV RNA present in the blood. No 'other diseases' are going to produce that.

Medication is aimed at arresting the life cycle of the virus, either by preventing it's replication or by inhibiting the entry of the virus into the CD4 cell.

November 14, 2005

For those who don't know about the UK press the 'News of the World' and 'Mail' are trash newspapers that 'report' just about anything that they can make up, so impossible to tell if there is any truth in anything they print!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There was also an extensive article in yesterday's Sunday Times.

Digger · November 14, 2005

If his CD4 levels didnt require him to take medication then I cant see how that those levels could prove HIV, a CD4 count can be affected by many other diseases as can some of the other HIV tests.
They cant count the virus in his blood as one poster stated, seeing as no-one has yet managed to identify the virus. What they do is test for Antibodies (Which is how you would normally test to see if someone is immune to a virus) and then they check the blood to see if some of the effects of HIV are present (effects which other diseases also have).

Both standard HIV tests can return false positives, Its probably just a coincidence.

HIV medicine doesnt involve boosting the immune system, it involves destroying it from what I've read, AZT was used primarily for Chemotherapy until it was shelved for being too toxic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

HIV medicine restricts the virus, the body produces its own CD4 cells, if its not swamped by the virus. Medicines do not produce CD4 cells, however they basically faciliate the right conditions for the body to do what its supposed to do.

AZT is your right, a drug developed to fight cancer. When AIDs was first diagnosed, it was just about the only thing in the medicine cabinet that showed any signs of working against the virus. Without knowing any better and given the fact that patients were dying all over the place caused by something that nobody knew anything about, AZT was the only option for treatment. Everybody was aware of the risks of its toxicity, however there was nothing else to use. At the early stages, it was used in increasingly larger doses. Current guidleines are far far lower and it is actually one of the most successfull drugs in the arsenal against HIV - sure it has its problems, but its enabling people to live and work as normal, albeit under regular medical supervision, similar to diabetes.

Steve2UK · November 14, 2005

He makes sandwiches for a living ... there's something else I'll have to give up

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And this from a forum administrator?

patrickq · November 14, 2005

Well lets hope you dont get affected by this condition and need to seek medical help. Incidentally, how else to drug companies get to 3rd stage medical trials for medicines, advertise in the newspapers for participants? - its always done in conjunction with key teaching hospitals and the drug companies effectively pay for the support they get from the hospitals in terms of staffing costs, administration, research teams etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You seem to be missing the point!

If I did seek medical help for any 'disease' such as AIDS or Cancer,it certainly wouldn't be from the mainstream medical profession which, contrary to your view, is largely ignorant of the real causes of these 'afflictions' and how to remedy them.

Regrettably this ignorance goes unchecked by the vast majority, who place a stupefying reliance upon those who kill innumerable patients every year ... I believe that doctors are the 6th largest killer of people in USA?

Your comment regarding 'drug companies' (as opposed to the good intentions of some within those corporations) beggars belief ... the fact is they do NOT want people to have any means of improved health other than through their drugs ... and if that means people die because they don't get alternative remedies, fine ... bottom line is increasing profits for shareholders, it can be no other way, it is written into corporate law.

In actual fact these drug companies are not benign, they actively kill patients, no exaggeration, and if you're not aware of it I suggest you spend a bit less time waving the banner for the medical profession and pharmaceutical companies and checking what is really going on .. but then maybe you work for a drug company, or prescribe their drugs?

Fact is that the virus has not been isolated ... other than in the minds of some of our 'scientists', which has little to do with reality. AIDS is a massive scam and unfortunately the myth of HIV hits the poorest and least able the hardest ... think of the supposed millions in Africa suffering this dreaded disease, when all they need is for the West, typified by the very drug companies that pretend to be seeking a cure, to get off their backs, allow them to have clean potable water and sanitation, coupled with use of their land to grow food to feed themselves. It is catastrophic and continues only because people allow themselves to be deluded by those they think have more wisdom.

Yes, it does anger me ... and no it is not directed at you ... just the views you express which are ill founded. So much so that I am working on a book covering issues such as this ... not yet got to the AIDS section unfortunately, or I'd have all the references nicely piled together

Digger · November 14, 2005

Well lets hope you dont get affected by this condition and need to seek medical help. Incidentally, how else to drug companies get to 3rd stage medical trials for medicines, advertise in the newspapers for participants? - its always done in conjunction with key teaching hospitals and the drug companies effectively pay for the support they get from the hospitals in terms of staffing costs, administration, research teams etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You seem to be missing the point!

If I did seek medical help for any 'disease' such as AIDS or Cancer,it certainly wouldn't be from the mainstream medical profession which, contrary to your view, is largely ignorant of the real causes of these 'afflictions' and how to remedy them.

Regrettably this ignorance goes unchecked by the vast majority, who place a stupefying reliance upon those who kill innumerable patients every year ... I believe that doctors are the 6th largest killer of people in USA?

Your comment regarding 'drug companies' (as opposed to the good intentions of some within those corporations) beggars belief ... the fact is they do NOT want people to have any means of improved health other than through their drugs ... and if that means people die because they don't get alternative remedies, fine ... bottom line is increasing profits for shareholders, it can be no other way, it is written into corporate law.

In actual fact these drug companies are not benign, they actively kill patients, no exaggeration, and if you're not aware of it I suggest you spend a bit less time waving the banner for the medical profession and pharmaceutical companies and checking what is really going on .. but then maybe you work for a drug company, or prescribe their drugs?

Fact is that the virus has not been isolated ... other than in the minds of some of our 'scientists', which has little to do with reality. AIDS is a massive scam and unfortunately the myth of HIV hits the poorest and least able the hardest ... think of the supposed millions in Africa suffering this dreaded disease, when all they need is for the West, typified by the very drug companies that pretend to be seeking a cure, to get off their backs, allow them to have clean potable water and sanitation, coupled with use of their land to grow food to feed themselves. It is catastrophic and continues only because people allow themselves to be deluded by those they think have more wisdom.

Yes, it does anger me ... and no it is not directed at you ... just the views you express which are ill founded. So much so that I am working on a book covering issues such as this ... not yet got to the AIDS section unfortunately, or I'd have all the references nicely piled together

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[/quot

Your going way off subject here - suffice to say I do not share your opinion, however everyone has their own views which is the sign of a free thinking world. For the time being I will place my trust into those people who are recognised experts but not bar room barristers....

chuchok · November 14, 2005

For those who don't know about the UK press the 'News of the World' and 'Mail' are trash newspapers that 'report' just about anything that they can make up, so impossible to tell if there is any truth in anything they print!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There was also an extensive article in yesterday's Sunday Times.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Was also on the BBC.

patrickq · November 14, 2005

Your going way off subject here - suffice to say I do not share your opinion, however everyone has their own views which is the sign of a free thinking world. For the time being I will place my trust into those people who are recognised experts but not bar room barristers....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not sure it is off subject myself, it is relevant surely to understanding whether the guy could actually ever have had this mythical HIV?

We do have different opinions, that's for sure, and as long as we do no harm to each other that's fine

However I would never place my trust in those who are 'recognised' experts ... the comment about 'bar room barristers' is a bit low, but I get your point. As I said, too many place unjustified faith in those who are 'recognised experts'. I believe I am correct in stating that in the 4 years or so that our future doctors in the UK study, they spend a couple of days (or is it half) studying nutrition. Ask why? Possibly because there is no money in having a healthy population if you're a drug company ... hence the massive involvement in 'educating' the future prescribers of their drugs. Little surprise then that these 'experts' have such flawed views.

Fortunately there are a few who buck the system, even when it means being ostracised and losing funding ... here is a man of integrity, driven by true compassion, rather than avarice:

PeterDuesberg.

I'm not interested in perpetuating a myth for the benefit of drug cartels, while thousands die because of this.

Fast Eddie · November 14, 2005

Fact is that the virus has not been isolated ... other than in the minds of some of our 'scientists', which has little to do with reality. AIDS is a massive scam and unfortunately the myth of HIV hits the poorest and least able the hardest ... think of the supposed millions in Africa suffering this dreaded disease, when all they need is for the West, typified by the very drug companies that pretend to be seeking a cure, to get off their backs, allow them to have clean potable water and sanitation, coupled with use of their land to grow food to feed themselves. It is catastrophic and continues only because people allow themselves to be deluded by those they think have more wisdom.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm sorry, but this is sheer ignorance. People who would otherwise be healthy individuals, who have access to clean water, good sanitation and good food are dieing of this illness all over the world. Of those who are diagnosed with HIV, those who given anti-retrovirals survive significantly longer than those without. It is a good job that the majority of people do not allow themselves to be deluded by those spouting the same message as you.

patrickq · November 14, 2005

For those of you following this thread who have little knowledge about AIDS, other than that conventionally presented by the media, here are some interesting points to mull over. Not presented to you as definitive fact, do your own research and all that to see what you believe. There is so much contradiction between what we are generally told ... which of course is fed to the media by ‘experts’ with an interest in promoting drug companies ... that it would take more than a few lines on a forum. You’ll have to buy my book when it is out! Actually I’ll probably have it free online as well, but don’t tell anyone.

1. The definition of AIDS requires a positive result on the HIV antibody test. Only problem is the tests are ALL flawed and can produce false readings.

2. The results of this ‘flawed’ test are also interpreted differently, depending upon where you are - for example negative in Canada could be positive in Africa. Obviously a reliable standard test then!

3. HIV has never been isolated as an independent virus! That’s right, this amazing virus, subject of massive amounts of research money has not been isolated. This small detail does not however concern pharmaceutical companies in pursuit of hot dollars.

4. There are over 70 scientifically acknowledged conditions that can produce a false positive in the HIV test (not forgetting, of course, that the whole basis of the test is flawed anyway) ... such as? ... well, how about pregnancy ... hmmm .... or flu vaccination .. better be careful not to have a jab for bird-flu (courtesy of those caring drug companies), or you may just end up being killed by AZT or the latest cocktail they are recommending when you show a positive test ... oh! and better be careful because the common cold can also make your life a misery for more reasons than you thought ... you got it, false positive potential. Now let me understand this, you can receive a positive HIV because you have a cold? ... yep, ‘fraid so, better get you on the drugs real quick ... before you die ... or possibly to make sure you do.

5. In case you think to yourself “no worries I’ll get a viral load check, that’ll tell me the truth” .... one popular kit to run viral load carries this warning "The amplicor HIV-1 Monitor test is not intended to be used as a screening test for HIV or as a diagnostic test to confirm the presence of HIV infection". Loads of confidence in their product then!

6. AZT kills ... yes it kills! People who survive, while taking it, do so despite the fact, not because of it. AZT was a drug developed to fight cancer, found to be so toxic that it was banned in 1957 by the FDA... interesting to consider how appalling it must be when you consider people are routinely killed by Chemotherapy. Later manipulated research results bought about it’s approval for use against AIDS. In case you didn’t know, AZT destroys cells, not just ‘bad’ ones but all cells without discrimination ... just what you would need to do to help your body if it actually has a depleted immune system!

This is all for starters, check it out for yourself, with an open mind and see what rubbish the main stream media is feeding you, courtesy of the ill-informed, or otherwise ill-intentioned, experts.

I would never have an AIDS test, what’s the point it tells you absolutely zilch about anything worth knowing. The risk in doing so and receiving a positive result is however immense ... wrecks you, your family, friends ... but does make the drug company happier, so obviously not all doom and gloom!

Unfortunately a PhD, or whatever qualification one has, means nothing, without the ability for individual thought ... look for those out there who are independently minded and seeking truth, not seeking to support a corrupt system that is now (for example) actively attempting to kill the innocent in Africa.

patrickq · November 14, 2005

I'm sorry, but this is sheer ignorance. People who would otherwise be healthy individuals, who have access to clean water, good sanitation and good food are dieing of this illness all over the world. Of those who are diagnosed with HIV, those who given anti-retrovirals survive significantly longer than those without. It is a good job that the majority of people do not allow themselves to be deluded by those spouting the same message as you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fast Eddie,

It is not so much ignorance as looking beyond the headlines.

Can you tell me who all these otherwise healthy individuals are?

Do you know about AIDS in Africa? That anyone who dies of any one of dozens of the myriad diseases that exist through poverty can now be classified as an AIDS victim ... no fancy HIV testing required.

I am not seeking to promote some strange wild theory I dreamt up, I just prefer to be aware and dig for the truth, rather than believe anything I am told at face value.

AIDS is not a condition brought about by the imaginary HIV virus. AIDS hasn't behaved in the way predicted, it has not spread randomly amongst the populations as we were told ... do you remember the predictions of near global decimation ... why, because it is NOT the result of a virus. In the West AIDS rose steadily, in specific groups, not randomly, showing all the signs of disease caused by chemical or physical causes not infectious virus. In Africa, despite the attempt to manipulate figures through the inclusion of many common causes of death and stacking of figures, it shows characteristics of nutritional or environmental disease, not infectious epidemic.

The facts are out there, beyond dispute. The more of us who become aware of the massive scam underway, the sooner lives can really be saved.

edited for typo

Edited November 14, 2005 by patrickq

Buff-horns · November 14, 2005

Mysterious case of the man who claims to have beaten HIV by taking vitamins

· Doubts remain until more tests can be carried out

· Millions could benefit if recovery can be explained

Hugh Muir and James Meikle

Monday November 14, 2005

The Guardian

A man who claims to be the first in the world whose immune system has been able to beat the HIV virus was facing mounting pressure yesterday to submit to further vital medical tests. Health experts, Aids campaigners and gay rights activists urged Andrew Stimpson to come forward following claims that he has been able to rid his body of the virus after taking little more than vitamins.

Activists say that if the claims are true, the phenomenon could potentially bring countless benefits to millions of people infected with HIV. There are more than 53,000 in the UK alone.

Article continues

Mr Stimpson, 25, twice tested positive at the Victoria Clinic for Sexual Health in west London in August 2002. A test 14 months later appeared to be negative. But the heath trust concerned, Chelsea and Westminster, yesterday said Mr Stimpson had so far "declined" to undergo further tests. It is understood that he was first asked to do so immediately after last year's negative test result.

A spokeswoman said: "I can confirm that he has a positive and a negative test. I can't confirm that he's shaken it off, that he's been cured. We urge him, for the sake of himself and the HIV community, to come in and get tested.

Though Mr Stimpson insists he will "do anything I can", associates said yesterday that he had gone away to rest and escape the media spotlight.

Campaigners are annoyed that having not yet undergone the vital tests, Mr Stimpson nevertheless signed contracts with the News of The World and the Mail on Sunday, both of which published his claims yesterday.

They also sounded a note of caution, noting that disclosures in his case arose not from medical research or peer review but from legal correspondence relating to an action Mr Stimpson was pursuing against the health trust. He had feared the positive results might have been wrong and had sought compensation. The trust's contention that both sets of blood tests were accurate emerged as it tried to defend itself from litigation.

Mr Stimpson, who lives in London with his partner, who is HIV positive, said: "There are 34.9 million people with HIV globally and I am just one person who managed to control it, to survive from it and to get rid of it from my body. For me that is unbelievable - it is a miracle. I think I'm one of the luckiest people alive.

"I was just taking daily supplements to keep myself as healthy as possible so as not to get full-blown Aids."

But Annabel Kanabus, director of the Aids charity, Avert, said he must match words with deeds. "He must come forward. Organisations such as ours will be inundated this week. There is enough confusion surrounding the issue of HIV. We don't need any more."

She said the sequence of events is troubling. "He was told in October that he would not be paid by the trust so he goes to the newspapers. I think he should have gone straight to his doctors."

Peter Tatchell, of the campaign group Outrage, said Mr Stimpson must "cooperate with the medical authorities for the greater benefit of everyone who has HIV".

Deborah Jack, chief executive of the National Aids Trust, added: "Without further tests it is impossible to draw any conclusions for people living with HIV. The virus is extremely complex and there are many unknowns about how it operates and how people's bodies react to it."

Mr Stimpson, who works in a sandwich bar, moved to London four years ago from Largs in Ayrshire. He took as confirmation of his cure a letter from the NHS Litigation Authority. Edwina Azimi, the authority's case manager, is reported to have denied any false diagnosis, hailing the results as "exceptional and medically remarkable". She said: "You have recovered from a positive antibody result to a negative result." She said there is "particular interest in these rare circumstances".

Whether doctors formally referred the matter to the Health Protection Agency, which monitors the spread of infection throughout the UK, is unclear. Such a referral would be expected to take place in a case of such apparent significance.

Experts stress the potential benefits a genuine case could have for the development of treatments and vaccines. But they also warned that the complexities of HIV make any one of a number of scenarios possible in this case. Tests usually indicate antibodies rather than the virus. They are usually accurate but one of the number of tests he has undergone may have been wrong. In any event a test for the virus itself is more conclusive.

Dr Patrick Dixon, founder of the international Aids agency ASET said a few people have immune systems capable of preventing HIV from becoming established. "It would not be surprising if we find a tiny number of people who have the capability to destroy the infection. It is possible this individual has something special about his genetic code." But he added: "The answer may turn out to be very complex. We must not jump to conclusions."

FAQ: HIV virus

Have there been any documented cases of people beating the HIV virus without medication?

With previous claims of so-called miracle cures, questions have been raised over the testing process or inaccurate labelling of samples. However, there are anomalies. In Kenya, tests on prostitutes showed that their "T cells", which help produce antibodies to HIV, had been exposed to the virus. Yet there was no evidence of HIV in blood or antibody tests

How widespread is HIV? Up to 5m cases are being diagnosed around the world each year. It is estimated that 53,000 people are living with HIV in Britain, and a third of them are yet to be diagnosed

How are people tested?

Initial blood tests err on the side of caution to ensure infected people are not "missed". There are occasionally false positives. First and follow-up tests to confirm diagnosis look for antibodies to HIV, which provide evidence that the body is fighting the virus. A third batch of tests help doctors gauge how far the infection has advanced

How are people treated?

Usually using a combination of antiretroviral drugs, although there is growing concern about the virus adapting to resist them

patrickq · November 14, 2005

Mysterious case of the man who claims to have beaten HIV by taking vitamins
· Doubts remain until more tests can be carried out

· Millions could benefit if recovery can be explained

Hugh Muir and James Meikle

Monday November 14, 2005

The Guardian

How are people treated?

Usually using a combination of antiretroviral drugs, although there is growing concern about the virus adapting to resist them

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ahh, The Guardian, stalwart bastion of truth ... I am joking of course ... what I meant to say was propagator of fiction and falsehood!

Perhaps they would like to explain how this devastating virus is managing to adapt resistance ...

This is the kind of crass, ill-informed reporting that we receive from one of the supposedly more enlightened UK newspapers. No attempt to question the false premise upon which the story is based, but then most journalists and their editors hold the positions they do precisely because they know not to embarass the advertisers or those in authority too much

Buff-horns · November 14, 2005

better take up your argument with the chelsea and westminster hospital and the HIV testing clinic . you seem to have some hidden agenda with newspapers who have reported the facts .

Buff-horns · November 14, 2005

Mysterious case of the man who claims to have beaten HIV by taking vitamins
· Doubts remain until more tests can be carried out

· Millions could benefit if recovery can be explained

Hugh Muir and James Meikle

Monday November 14, 2005

The Guardian

How are people treated?

Usually using a combination of antiretroviral drugs, although there is growing concern about the virus adapting to resist them

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ahh, The Guardian, stalwart bastion of truth ... I am joking of course ... what I meant to say was propagator of fiction and falsehood!

Perhaps they would like to explain how this devastating virus is managing to adapt resistance ...

This is the kind of crass, ill-informed reporting that we receive from one of the supposedly more enlightened UK newspapers. No attempt to question the false premise upon which the story is based, but then most journalists and their editors hold the positions they do precisely because they know not to embarass the advertisers or those in authority too much

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what false premise ?

give the hospital a ring to satisfy yourself there is no false premise as you falsly claim.

Location

St Stephen’s Centre, Ground Floor (next door to Chelsea and Westminster Hospital)

Appointments: 020 8846 6161/2

Repeat Prescriptions: 020 8846 6124

(24 Hours notice required)

Charge Nurse: Simon Farnworth

Clinical Nurse Lead: Jane Bruton

The Kobler Clinic is a world renowned centre for the treatment of people with HIV and related problems serving over 4,500 patients both in the Greater London area and nationwide.

The Clinic, opened by Princess Diana in 1988, is part of the HIV/GUM Directorate based in St Stephen's Centre located next door to the Chelsea and Westminster Hospital.

It was built with the generous financial assistance of the charity Crusaid and was named after Fred Kobler, the major benefactor.

Through cutting edge anti-retroviral medication and forged links with community care givers the Kobler is committed to supporting people with HIV in living full and productive lives.

Services include:

patrickq · November 15, 2005

what false premise ?
give the hospital a ring to satisfy yourself there is no false premise as you falsly claim.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Apologies if I didn't make it clear ... was getting late!

The false premise that HIV is the cause of AIDS.

If this is false then what possible relevance does the supposed positive/negative transition have regarding HIV. The whole headline story is then a completely different issue.

Do you believe that AIDS is caused by HIV? If so on what grounds?

Hardly worth calling the Chelsea and Westminster ... are you seriously suggesting that they will question the correlation when they base their treatment upon it?

As I've said previously I'd prefer facts to fiction ... and HIV is a massive scam.

I'll be interested in your response, as I have seen nothing scientific to show the existence of HIV.

What is loosely termed AIDS is the result of a depleted immune system, due to causes that have nothing to do with a mythical virus ... of course there is little money to be made by the drugs companies if that is the case.

I have looked at this, with an open mind, starting many years ago and it is clear beyond any doubt. If it wasn't and there really was a virus causing AIDS and it could be cured with the help of a drug I would be urging the immediate and unconditional dispensation of this to those in Africa etc. However the truth is that those in Africa will only be killed by the drugs they will be given to combat this non-existent virus. That, to me, is evil and I have no intention of bowing my head in respect to those in the medical profession too ignorant to realise it.

I may just write The Guardian as you suggest. I don't quite see the hidden agenda in questioning whether they are reporting openly or not, surely it is the newspaper which is guilty of a hidden agenda here, ie the continued perpetration of the HIV/AIDS myth as fact. Surely we should all be alert enough by now to question what we read in the paper, particularly if it is reported straight from some interested party. The initial part of the article reported statements etc, all very clear, however the end of the article then unquestioningly corroborated the HIV/AIDS fallacy. That is how myth becomes fact ... do you remember the headlines that led to the invasion of Iraq ... WMD and all that ... newspapers have a lot to answer for, unfortunately they don't seem to think so ... question, question, question and you might just get closer to the truth. Blind belief and implicit faith do nothing to help those in this world who do not have a voice.

Digger · November 15, 2005

For those of you following this thread who have little knowledge about AIDS, other than that conventionally presented by the media, here are some interesting points to mull over. Not presented to you as definitive fact, do your own research and all that to see what you believe. There is so much contradiction between what we are generally told ... which of course is fed to the media by ‘experts’ with an interest in promoting drug companies ... that it would take more than a few lines on a forum. You’ll have to buy my book when it is out! Actually I’ll probably have it free online as well, but don’t tell anyone.
1. The definition of AIDS requires a positive result on the HIV antibody test. Only problem is the tests are ALL flawed and can produce false readings.

2. The results of this ‘flawed’ test are also interpreted differently, depending upon where you are - for example negative in Canada could be positive in Africa. Obviously a reliable standard test then!

3. HIV has never been isolated as an independent virus! That’s right, this amazing virus, subject of massive amounts of research money has not been isolated. This small detail does not however concern pharmaceutical companies in pursuit of hot dollars.

4. There are over 70 scientifically acknowledged conditions that can produce a false positive in the HIV test (not forgetting, of course, that the whole basis of the test is flawed anyway) ... such as? ... well, how about pregnancy ... hmmm .... or flu vaccination .. better be careful not to have a jab for bird-flu (courtesy of those caring drug companies), or you may just end up being killed by AZT or the latest cocktail they are recommending when you show a positive test ... oh! and better be careful because the common cold can also make your life a misery for more reasons than you thought ... you got it, false positive potential. Now let me understand this, you can receive a positive HIV because you have a cold? ... yep, ‘fraid so, better get you on the drugs real quick ... before you die ... or possibly to make sure you do.

5. In case you think to yourself “no worries I’ll get a viral load check, that’ll tell me the truth” .... one popular kit to run viral load carries this warning "The amplicor HIV-1 Monitor test is not intended to be used as a screening test for HIV or as a diagnostic test to confirm the presence of HIV infection". Loads of confidence in their product then!

6. AZT kills ... yes it kills! People who survive, while taking it, do so despite the fact, not because of it. AZT was a drug developed to fight cancer, found to be so toxic that it was banned in 1957 by the FDA... interesting to consider how appalling it must be when you consider people are routinely killed by Chemotherapy. Later manipulated research results bought about it’s approval for use against AIDS. In case you didn’t know, AZT destroys cells, not just ‘bad’ ones but all cells without discrimination ... just what you would need to do to help your body if it actually has a depleted immune system!

This is all for starters, check it out for yourself, with an open mind and see what rubbish the main stream media is feeding you, courtesy of the ill-informed, or otherwise ill-intentioned, experts.

I would never have an AIDS test, what’s the point it tells you absolutely zilch about anything worth knowing. The risk in doing so and receiving a positive result is however immense ... wrecks you, your family, friends ... but does make the drug company happier, so obviously not all doom and gloom!

Unfortunately a PhD, or whatever qualification one has, means nothing, without the ability for individual thought ... look for those out there who are independently minded and seeking truth, not seeking to support a corrupt system that is now (for example) actively attempting to kill the innocent in Africa.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I find your comments unfounded and poorly researched. Its easy to cast these comments but your not presenting a balanced view are you? What is your fixation with AZT - sounds like you cant turn off that record once you get going. AZT, like many medicines, or even household chemicals will kill you if taken in large enough quantities - no doubt if you go swimming you make sure its not got Chlorine in is, given that Chlorine in sufficient doses will kill you straight away.

The comment about a HIV testing disclaimer is a farce - a car handbook in the US now has to specify that a cruise control does not control the vehicle steering, as a manufacturer was taken to court and lost when the claimant said, he put on the cruise control in his motorhome and went back to make some coffee while the vehicle was driving down the highway with nobody at the steering wheel. End result of course is the motorhome crashed. He sued the manufacturer and WON as the handbook did not specify that the steering was not controlled.

Therefore any testing equipment will have to meet the most stringent of laws anywhere in the world. Therefore the manufacturer needs to protect themselves accordingly as they are not controlling what goes into the machine to be tested - i.e they are not controlling the entire process. What happens for example, if a dimwit (think of the motorhome driver) lab assistant puts a urine sample into the kit and the kit reads it as no HIV virus found - that does not mean that the patient does not HIV, just that the test has not been carried out correctly. Thats the whole point of such disclaimers - HIV medicine still has many unanswered questions however to describe it as a conspiracy is naive beyond belief.

The whole point of this subject is that the patient was treated in a specialist HIV centre in London - clear records are made and seemingly show a strange situation - its as simple as that - stop trying to hi-jack this thread with your own way out thinking that will annoy many people on this forum, some of whom have HIV and some of whom have family members/friends with HIV. You have some 30 posts to your name, I suggest you do a little bit more research on the people who are part of this forum before you allienate yourself completely.

patrickq · November 15, 2005

I find your comments unfounded and poorly researched. Its easy to cast these comments but your not presenting a balanced view are you? What is your fixation with AZT - sounds like you cant turn off that record once you get going. AZT, like many medicines, or even household chemicals will kill you if taken in large enough quantities - no doubt if you go swimming you make sure its not got Chlorine in is, given that Chlorine in sufficient doses will kill you straight away.
The comment about a HIV testing disclaimer is a farce - a car handbook in the US now has to specify that a cruise control does not control the vehicle steering, as a manufacturer was taken to court and lost when the claimant said, he put on the cruise control in his motorhome and went back to make some coffee while the vehicle was driving down the highway with nobody at the steering wheel. End result of course is the motorhome crashed. He sued the manufacturer and WON as the handbook did not specify that the steering was not controlled.

Therefore any testing equipment will have to meet the most stringent of laws anywhere in the world. Therefore the manufacturer needs to protect themselves accordingly as they are not controlling what goes into the machine to be tested - i.e they are not controlling the entire process. What happens for example, if a dimwit (think of the motorhome driver) lab assistant puts a urine sample into the kit and the kit reads it as no HIV virus found - that does not mean that the patient does not HIV, just that the test has not been carried out correctly. Thats the whole point of such disclaimers - HIV medicine still has many unanswered questions however to describe it as a conspiracy is naive beyond belief.

The whole point of this subject is that the patient was treated in a specialist HIV centre in London - clear records are made and seemingly show a strange situation - its as simple as that - stop trying to hi-jack this thread with your own way out thinking that will annoy many people on this forum, some of whom have HIV and some of whom have family members/friends with HIV. You have some 30 posts to your name, I suggest you do a little bit more research on the people who are part of this forum before you allienate yourself completely.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Digger, if you can't be bothered to read anything I have posted that's your problem ... was trying to keep it fairly simple and not too technical. If you are unable to take on board the fact that HIV does not cause AIDS, then fine that's your view. I am not hijacking this thread, just posting comments that are relevant ... maybe the fact that I don't concur with your view is what troubles you. I hadn't realised that Thai Visa had a 'select members only' policy, if the forum is made up entirely of those with a blinkered view who are unable to consider any opinion other than their own, then I have no inclination to post. I suspect that is not the case however.

What is the relevance of my having some 30 posts ... is it too many, or too few? Do I have to reach a certain number before I'm allowed into the hallowed halls of those such as you?

You accuse me of unfounded and poor research ... a little rich coming from someone who has posted nothing so far to substantiate claims about the fictional reliability of the Western Blot, Elisa and viral load tests. I repeat that HIV does not cause AIDs and if this knowledge inspires someone reading this board who has AIDS, or a friend who does, to question the treatment they are asked to undergo, then I don't care about whether I alienate you or your friends.

I have posted enough on here for anyone to realise there is more to this than you propose. If anyone wants to know more then I'm happy to post, or to PM them, if not then that's fine as well.

... typo edit ... again!

Edited November 15, 2005 by patrickq

the scouser · November 15, 2005

Patrick,

Based on your infallible insight and evident prowess in this field, I have told my wife that she can't possibly be HIV positive, because the virus does not exist. She is to stop taking her ARV drugs immediately. Today, in fact, she has an appointment for her regular check up. When we go there we shall tell the so-called specialist that he is a lackey of the capitalist system and that he can shove his lucre-tainted drugs up his arse: that my wife receives her treatment and medication free is neither here nor there.

What a breath of fresh air you are. I just hope my wife lives long enough to realise this..........

Scouse.

patrickq · November 15, 2005

Patrick,
Based on your infallible insight and evident prowess in this field, I have told my wife that she can't possibly be HIV positive, because the virus does not exist. She is to stop taking her ARV drugs immediately. Today, in fact, she has an appointment for her regular check up. When we go there we shall tell the so-called specialist that he is a lackey of the capitalist system and that he can shove his lucre-tainted drugs up his arse: that my wife receives her treatment and medication free is neither here nor there.

What a breath of fresh air you are. I just hope my wife lives long enough to realise this..........

Scouse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... and you're a 'super moderator' ... logic and an open mind obviously not a requirement then!

... seriously, Scouse, it's because I actually care about people like your wife that I put the info on here, all I suggest is that you take a look and maybe you'll realise there is no such reality as the HIV/AIDS connection. I had a friend die of cancer recently because his family wouldn't even consider the possibility that it might be wrong to plug him with chemotherapy, the worst thing to do when the body is struggling to survive and rebuild it's defences. It is tragic and no amount of sarcastic comments about my posts will change the fact that HIV/AIDS is a scam. I am genuinely sorry to hear of your situation, my dad died of cancer not so long ago, so I know the feeling of helplessness. Don't be afraid to just do a little bit of independent digging and you'll see what a fraud it is. Then you'll get more than angry with the drug companies, I assure you.

I've had enough of this thread ... you guys win ... it is too exhausting.

I posted a few initial reasons to give food for thought, reason to consider if there is a fraud, enough to make an enquiring mind want to know more. There is a whole lot more. Interestingly nobody has yet been able to post regarding the scientifically proven isolation of the HIV virus. The reason why is simple. If you don't like the truth, don't tell me I'm ignorant and ill informed, post your infallible reasoning as to how a virus that they can't even find is scientifically known to be responsible for AIDS. If you can't, then maybe it really is time to start thinking why.

As I said in my last post on here, that's it, only replying to this because that one crossed with yours Scouse. I'll leave you all in peace, if anyone with an open mind wants to know more then feel free to pm me ... but don't bother to flame if angry, take it out on the BB, where I won't have to see it

patrickq · November 15, 2005

... Scouse my apologies ... took a shower and regretted the first line of my post ... came back and was unable to edit it out ... heat of the moment ... hope you'll accept my genuine apologies and hope all went well today ... please feel free to delete that line of post (or all) as a moderator.

Fast Eddie · November 15, 2005

If you are unable to take on board the fact that HIV does not cause AIDS, then fine that's your view.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The thing is Patrick, that this is not a fact. The evidence you have provided is weak beyond belief. I'm not going to start discussing the overwhelmingly massive amount of information and research results that prove the existence of HIV, because we could be here for months doing so, and in my experience people with your viewpoint on this subject generally refuse to accept any of it anyway, usually for lame reasons. I have promised myself not to get too embroiled in an argument about this topic again.

While it is usually a good thing for everyone to be able to give their opinion, the problem with yours is that it is dangerous if people with little education and understanding of the subject are swayed by your thinking. If they start reading the information you provide it is too easy for some people to be convinced as they do not possess the knowledge to critically assess what they are reading. Maybe that is what happened with you in the first place.

It is apparent that your motives are genuine, but you are sadly misguided. I would urge anyone who is genuinely interested in this to seek credible sources, and not to contact Patrick.

the scouser · November 15, 2005

For those who are interested, there is a lengthy rebuttal of the misinformation disseminated by the "denialists' " at Avert.org, which is an independent Aids charity.

Scouse.

Buff-horns · November 15, 2005

thats why trink got sacked from the BKK post because of his spouting AIDS denialists rubbish. those guys are working with data that is more than 20years out of date.

but there are people that still insist that the earth is flat .

Digger · November 15, 2005

If you are unable to take on board the fact that HIV does not cause AIDS, then fine that's your view.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The thing is Patrick, that this is not a fact. The evidence you have provided is weak beyond belief. I'm not going to start discussing the overwhelmingly massive amount of information and research results that prove the existence of HIV, because we could be here for months doing so, and in my experience people with your viewpoint on this subject generally refuse to accept any of it anyway, usually for lame reasons. I have promised myself not to get too embroiled in an argument about this topic again.

While it is usually a good thing for everyone to be able to give their opinion, the problem with yours is that it is dangerous if people with little education and understanding of the subject are swayed by your thinking. If they start reading the information you provide it is too easy for some people to be convinced as they do not possess the knowledge to critically assess what they are reading. Maybe that is what happened with you in the first place.

It is apparent that your motives are genuine, but you are sadly misguided. I would urge anyone who is genuinely interested in this to seek credible sources, and not to contact Patrick.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The simple facts, yes facts are that prior to HAART therapy, people developed AIDS, in all liklihood caused by HIV destroying their immune system. Even if it was not proven its academic as since HAART therapy has been introduced and given to HIV Positive patients, guess what? They dont develop AIDS and surprise surprise they are for the most part still alive and infact living completely normal lifes other than having to remember once or twice a day to take a couple of medicine capsules. This is not just some coincidence but the reality of the situation.

I am well aware of the references Patrick has made, I have spent countless hours reading websites and sitting with specialist doctors.

I form my own opinion on everything and never take things at face value. I had two options basically to follow medical advise or to not. I was faced with a real dilema - someone steadily dying unless I could do something to help. The aim was to choose the option that will mean people close to me are able to live happy and fulfilling lifes for many many years to come. In my 5 years of being involved with someone who has HIV, I have not regreted any single step and based on her current situation, had she not started taking medicine, including AZT 3 years ago, odds are she would be dead now - for two years I saw her CD4 count drop every 3 months when she was tested and viral load rising. This is someone who does not drink or smoke and has a very healthy appetite and nutrional understanding and her CD4 cells stick dropped like a brick over 2 years without any medicine down to a level of 200. Now her CD4 count is in the 800's and viral load is undetectable. She is not sick in anyway and basically in superb health. For me at least I have no regrets about the action taken.

coldcrush · November 15, 2005

Not a deep meaningful or clever post, but the man in question Andrew Stimpson has gone AWOL.....BBC News UK.

I think maybe he is scared of the amount of guinea pig blood he will have to give as the press in the UK have openly stated that he is wanted by many people for tests....

I think however if he is the hidden cure or has a hidden answer for HIV, he will be hammering out a deal with a big Multinational Drugs Company....

Either way any cure or hope for cure for a terrible virus is welcomed in my opinion.

the scouser · November 15, 2005

no amount of sarcastic comments about my posts will change the fact that HIV/AIDS is a scam. ........I know the feeling of helplessness. Don't be afraid to just do a little bit of independent digging and you'll see what a fraud it is. Then you'll get more than angry with the drug companies, I assure you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Patrick,

I apologise for the heavy-handed sarcasm. I have, however, looked at both sides of the argument and am firm in the believe that HIV weakens people's immune sytems which, in turn, leaves them susceptible to contracting various infections which other, healthy, individuals wouldn't catch. There is too strong a correlation between the prevalence of the virus and the commensurate increase in AIDS-related deaths.

However, neither I nor my wife has a sense of helplessness as we both firmly believe that she is receiving the best available treatment for her condition and, indeed, is now living a full and positive (no pun intended) life. It is the consequences of not being treated which would leave one with a sense of helplessness.

Patrick, throughout your posts you've encouraged people to think for themselves, and I couldn't concur more: very little would be achieved if orthodoxy were not challenged. However, it appears to disturb you when others, who have researched both sides of the coin, independently form an opinion which is opposed to yours. Surely, having looked at the issues, that is their right.

Scouse.

Buff-horns · November 18, 2005

HIV ‘miracle man’ not unique, GAY.COM reveals

Gus Cairns

www.guscairns.com

16 November, 2005

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British Man Cured Of Hiv

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