48 Hours: Deadline Bangkok

[phiphidon]

There are always floods during the rainy season, but Bangkok is built on clay subsoil prone to subsidence. It is also under threat from the rising sea level caused by climate change and coastal erosion. Some Thai experts are predicting that part of Bangkok may be waterlogged by 2030

I suppose Yingluck is to blame for the climate change and coastal erosion too!

If you want to blame her for that, then that's up to you.

No one is blaming her for the floods. Some people are just amazed at how incompetently her government are handling the situation.

Some people are just amazed at how incompetently her government are handling the situation.

And it was no different last year, Democrat Coalition Government, floods not as bad:

Govt blasted for mishandling crisis, lack of planning

By The Nation

Published on October 23, 2010

A flood-management expert yesterday criticised the government for mishandling relief operations and failing to carry out preventive measures before the flooding across the country reached a critical level.

Phornphilai Lertwicha, a Thailand Research Fund (TRF) researcher, said the heavy flooding in Nakhon Ratchasima, which is on a plateau in the Northeast, was a testimony to the government's failures...........

She said some flood management and action plans had been carried out at the national level, "but during this government's term, we have not witnessed any clear-cut action, despite annual flooding in Thailand. We never learn any lessons, and we let it happen, over and over."

Responding to her statements, secretary to the prime minister Korbsak Sabhavasu said the government had thought about setting up a war room to handle flood management. "But we are worried about natural slow progress and red tape through the bureaucracy after it is set up.

"Now we are thinking about how to shorten the process and increase the speed of work. I admit that the problems get worse because there is no host agency to take care of them, which should be directly under the Interior Ministry's supervision," he said.........

Delivery of relief supplies and aid money is continuing, but largely through efforts of the private sector and the media, which initiated donation campaigns before the authorities followed suit. But when it comes to regulations on handling donated money, the PM's Office Ministry is having problems with the Bt90 million it has in hand.

The main responsibility for flood management had been assigned by Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to former deputy prime minister Suthep Thaugsuban, but after his resignation to take part in a by-election campaign, Abhisit was too busy with other tasks. "No one in the government is now dealing with the flooding,"

http://www.nationmul...i-30140683.html

[whybother]

If you want to blame her for that, then that's up to you.

No one is blaming her for the floods. Some people are just amazed at how incompetently her government are handling the situation.

Some people are just amazed at how incompetently her government are handling the situation.

And it was no different last year, Democrat Coalition Government, floods not as bad:

http://www.nationmul...i-30140683.html

The difference last year being that most of the floods last year were flash floods, as opposed to the 3-4 weeks warning given this time around.

[rogerdee123]

There are always floods during the rainy season, but Bangkok is built on clay subsoil prone to subsidence. It is also under threat from the rising sea level caused by climate change and coastal erosion. Some Thai experts are predicting that part of Bangkok may be waterlogged by 2030

I suppose Yingluck is to blame for the climate change and coastal erosion too!

Your last statement is a bit silly really. Who on this thread, or the forum is blaming her for the floods and climate change??

What Yingluck is absolutely responsible for is how she and her ministers conduct themselves at this time of national crisis. She is responsible for executing timely decisions and timely release of information. She is responsible for the effective co-ordination of all Government departments, emergency services and armed forces, ie every resource this country has to offer to ensure the country puts up the most effective defence against the floods and importantly, using all those resources to alleviate the hunger and suffering of those people who are living in 2M of water for weeks. She is responsible for getting her 'brother in law' to mobilise the Police and get them to do something. There should be policemen guarding the sandbag reinforcements and flood defences, ensuring people are not breaking them down, either over disputes or for profit.

She is not responsible for floods and climate change, but when she decided to step up to the plate and become PM she took on responsibility for just about everything else. It does not matter what previous governments have done or not done, she is responsible now. A little like Obama really. Nobody with any intelligence could accuse him of causing the US financial problems, it happened long before he came in power, but he is now responsible for sorting it out and is being judged on how HE handles the crisis. Yingluck is in a similar situation.

My point is that some people on this forum are using this disaster as an excuse to pour scorn on the current government.There is no contingency plan for this type of natural disaster and a lot of the blame should be put on previous governments for not doing enough to plan for a disaster of this scale.You can't put all of your eggs in the one basket on this topic , I'ts just ridiculous!

We learn from THaksin, PTP & Red Shirts about how to be successful in politics in Thailand

[Bkkorupcountry]

It's practically impossible to ever show evidence of incompetence when there isn't any. Australia has a professional Civil Defense and Bush Fire Brigade which leads a volunteer force of thousands - people who give up their time and effort to train regularly, and who sometimes die to help others when the need arises.

You calling them incompetent as a throw away line to defend the farce that is happening here, especially when you show no knowledge of their performance, shows a lack of education and intelligence that YOU seem to find lacking in others.

The rest of your reply is self-serving crap. If you were actually in this country you might have a better grasp on what is happening here. There is PLENTY of evidence of incompetence, but don't trust a bunch of farangs, just go to BKK Post and hear what Thais have to say.

If you have bothered to read my post CAREFULLY, you will find that nowhere did I call them incompetent.

In an ironic way, you proved my point - that a Government very often have very little to do with the on-the-ground situations. It's up to respective ministries and volunteer or professional groups. Blaming politicians (who are almost always just temporarily in their jobs) is totally pointless, unless you are the opposition, trying to score points to try and win the next election.

It's like UBS CEO Oswald Gruebel having to step down because of some low level dishonest trader's actions. He bears responsibility ultimately as the CEO but does that mean he was incompetent? Blaming a govt for the the shortcomings of certain ministries who are staffed by bureaucrats is the same thing.

[phiphidon]

If you want to blame her for that, then that's up to you.

No one is blaming her for the floods. Some people are just amazed at how incompetently her government are handling the situation.

Some people are just amazed at how incompetently her government are handling the situation.

And it was no different last year, Democrat Coalition Government, floods not as bad:

http://www.nationmul...i-30140683.html

The difference last year being that most of the floods last year were flash floods, as opposed to the 3-4 weeks warning given this time around.

Flash Floods they may have been but it is not as if they were unaware of 1) the likliehood of flash floods and where they were likely to happen and 2) the ongoing weather situation, as the following government reports show. I haven't even entered all the warnings. Nor have I detailed invidual sources - they can all be found under the reliefweb website.

Uninformed they were not.

BANGKOK, 4 August 2010 (NNT) - Thailand: DDPM warns 27 provinces of flashfloods, mudslides

The Department of Disaster Prevention and Mitigation (DDPM) has warned 27 provinces across the country of flashfloods and mudslides due to continuous torrential rains during 3-4 August.

BANGKOK, 12 August 2010 - 11 provinces warned of heavy rainfalls, flashfloods

BANGKOK, 22 August 2010- 16 provinces warned of heavy rainfalls, flashfloods

BANGKOK, 1 September 2010 - Chavarat: Flood situation nationwide under close watch

BANGKOK, 12 September 2010 - North, Northeast, warned of sudden floods, heavy rainfalls

BANGKOK, 17 September 2010 - 35 Provinces warned of flash floods, mudslide

BANGKOK, 19 September 2010 - North, northeastern and central warned of torrential rains

BANGKOK, 23 September 2010 - DDPM warns northern, northeastern, central dwellers of flashfloods

Bangkok, 29 September 2010 - Northern and northeastern residents still on flood alert

BANGKOK, 6 October 2010 - Irrigation Department prepares Kaem Ling reservoirs to solve flooding and droughtsituation

BANGKOK, 11 October 2010 - BMA - water management system ready to cope with flood

BANGKOK, 17 October 2010 - PM orders officers to tackle problems caused by floods

BANGKOK, 24 October 2010 - The Government has set up an information center for natural disasters, integratingthe work of different agencies to enhance their efficiency in helping flood victims

Need I go on?

And more up to the present day................

[OzMick]

It's practically impossible to ever show evidence of incompetence when there isn't any. Australia has a professional Civil Defense and Bush Fire Brigade which leads a volunteer force of thousands - people who give up their time and effort to train regularly, and who sometimes die to help others when the need arises.

You calling them incompetent as a throw away line to defend the farce that is happening here, especially when you show no knowledge of their performance, shows a lack of education and intelligence that YOU seem to find lacking in others.

The rest of your reply is self-serving crap. If you were actually in this country you might have a better grasp on what is happening here. There is PLENTY of evidence of incompetence, but don't trust a bunch of farangs, just go to BKK Post and hear what Thais have to say.

If you have bothered to read my post CAREFULLY, you will find that nowhere did I call them incompetent.

In an ironic way, you proved my point - that a Government very often have very little to do with the on-the-ground situations. It's up to respective ministries and volunteer or professional groups. Blaming politicians (who are almost always just temporarily in their jobs) is totally pointless, unless you are the opposition, trying to score points to try and win the next election.

It's like UBS CEO Oswald Gruebel having to step down because of some low level dishonest trader's actions. He bears responsibility ultimately as the CEO but does that mean he was incompetent? Blaming a govt for the the shortcomings of certain ministries who are staffed by bureaucrats is the same thing.

"Aussie government - complete mis-handling of the recent floods and almost every year of bush fires"

Stating that a complete mis-handling almost every year is not saying that they are incompetent. I suppose a similar situation would be if I said that every time you open your mouth, shit comes out, isn't saying that you are full of shit. Of course, I'm not allowed to say that, but I can think it.

[whybother]

The difference last year being that most of the floods last year were flash floods, as opposed to the 3-4 weeks warning given this time around.

Flash Floods they may have been but it is not as if they were unaware of 1) the likliehood of flash floods and where they were likely to happen and 2) the ongoing weather situation, as the following government reports show. I haven't even entered all the warnings. Nor have I detailed invidual sources - they can all be found under the reliefweb website.

Uninformed they were not.

BANGKOK, 4 August 2010 (NNT) - Thailand: DDPM warns 27 provinces of flashfloods, mudslides

The Department of Disaster Prevention and Mitigation (DDPM) has warned 27 provinces across the country of flashfloods and mudslides due to continuous torrential rains during 3-4 August.

BANGKOK, 12 August 2010 - 11 provinces warned of heavy rainfalls, flashfloods

BANGKOK, 22 August 2010- 16 provinces warned of heavy rainfalls, flashfloods

BANGKOK, 1 September 2010 - Chavarat: Flood situation nationwide under close watch

BANGKOK, 12 September 2010 - North, Northeast, warned of sudden floods, heavy rainfalls

BANGKOK, 17 September 2010 - 35 Provinces warned of flash floods, mudslide

BANGKOK, 19 September 2010 - North, northeastern and central warned of torrential rains

BANGKOK, 23 September 2010 - DDPM warns northern, northeastern, central dwellers of flashfloods

Bangkok, 29 September 2010 - Northern and northeastern residents still on flood alert

BANGKOK, 6 October 2010 - Irrigation Department prepares Kaem Ling reservoirs to solve flooding and droughtsituation

BANGKOK, 11 October 2010 - BMA - water management system ready to cope with flood

BANGKOK, 17 October 2010 - PM orders officers to tackle problems caused by floods

BANGKOK, 24 October 2010 - The Government has set up an information center for natural disasters, integratingthe work of different agencies to enhance their efficiency in helping flood victims

Need I go on?

And more up to the present day................

Except you can't do anything about flash floods until they actually hit. You can be aware that they might happen, but it's very difficult to protect people from them because they happen so quickly.

[phiphidon]

The difference last year being that most of the floods last year were flash floods, as opposed to the 3-4 weeks warning given this time around.

Flash Floods they may have been but it is not as if they were unaware of 1) the likliehood of flash floods and where they were likely to happen and 2) the ongoing weather situation, as the following government reports show. I haven't even entered all the warnings. Nor have I detailed invidual sources - they can all be found under the reliefweb website.

Uninformed they were not.

BANGKOK, 4 August 2010 (NNT) - Thailand: DDPM warns 27 provinces of flashfloods, mudslides

The Department of Disaster Prevention and Mitigation (DDPM) has warned 27 provinces across the country of flashfloods and mudslides due to continuous torrential rains during 3-4 August.

BANGKOK, 12 August 2010 - 11 provinces warned of heavy rainfalls, flashfloods

BANGKOK, 22 August 2010- 16 provinces warned of heavy rainfalls, flashfloods

BANGKOK, 1 September 2010 - Chavarat: Flood situation nationwide under close watch

BANGKOK, 12 September 2010 - North, Northeast, warned of sudden floods, heavy rainfalls

BANGKOK, 17 September 2010 - 35 Provinces warned of flash floods, mudslide

BANGKOK, 19 September 2010 - North, northeastern and central warned of torrential rains

BANGKOK, 23 September 2010 - DDPM warns northern, northeastern, central dwellers of flashfloods

Bangkok, 29 September 2010 - Northern and northeastern residents still on flood alert

BANGKOK, 6 October 2010 - Irrigation Department prepares Kaem Ling reservoirs to solve flooding and droughtsituation

BANGKOK, 11 October 2010 - BMA - water management system ready to cope with flood

BANGKOK, 17 October 2010 - PM orders officers to tackle problems caused by floods

BANGKOK, 24 October 2010 - The Government has set up an information center for natural disasters, integratingthe work of different agencies to enhance their efficiency in helping flood victims

Need I go on?

And more up to the present day................

Except you can't do anything about flash floods until they actually hit. You can be aware that they might happen, but it's very difficult to protect people from them because they happen so quickly.

But when you have been aware since the beginning of August that floods are happening and you are still having problems in October/November with daily forecasts..............

[Bkkorupcountry]

It's practically impossible to ever show evidence of incompetence when there isn't any. Australia has a professional Civil Defense and Bush Fire Brigade which leads a volunteer force of thousands - people who give up their time and effort to train regularly, and who sometimes die to help others when the need arises.

You calling them incompetent as a throw away line to defend the farce that is happening here, especially when you show no knowledge of their performance, shows a lack of education and intelligence that YOU seem to find lacking in others.

The rest of your reply is self-serving crap. If you were actually in this country you might have a better grasp on what is happening here. There is PLENTY of evidence of incompetence, but don't trust a bunch of farangs, just go to BKK Post and hear what Thais have to say.

If you have bothered to read my post CAREFULLY, you will find that nowhere did I call them incompetent.

In an ironic way, you proved my point - that a Government very often have very little to do with the on-the-ground situations. It's up to respective ministries and volunteer or professional groups. Blaming politicians (who are almost always just temporarily in their jobs) is totally pointless, unless you are the opposition, trying to score points to try and win the next election.

It's like UBS CEO Oswald Gruebel having to step down because of some low level dishonest trader's actions. He bears responsibility ultimately as the CEO but does that mean he was incompetent? Blaming a govt for the the shortcomings of certain ministries who are staffed by bureaucrats is the same thing.

"Aussie government - complete mis-handling of the recent floods and almost every year of bush fires"

Stating that a complete mis-handling almost every year is not saying that they are incompetent. I suppose a similar situation would be if I said that every time you open your mouth, shit comes out, isn't saying that you are full of shit. Of course, I'm not allowed to say that, but I can think it.

My my.... seems like I've hit a raw nerve there by criticising your Government. Not so nice when foreigners criticise YOUR government then, is it? I know, I know, you will try to reply that it is acceptable if the criticism is valid and there is mis-handling or whatever, but then, what you judge as competent may not be seen as such by others. The same applies here in Thailand, some judge the govt to be adequately competent, some don't. I know very well which side of the fence you fall on - your previous posts in many other threads leaves no doubt as to your bias and prejudice.

Since you have now resorted to four letter words (standard vocabulary in Oz when I lived there during my Uni days) in spite of your non too subtle comments to portray differently, this will be my last reply to your posts on this thread.

Edited October 19, 2011 by Bkkorupcountry

[whybother]

But when you have been aware since the beginning of August that floods are happening and you are still having problems in October/November with daily forecasts..............

No. When you have been warned that floods could happen ...

The major floods only started in early October.

[OzMick]

It's practically impossible to ever show evidence of incompetence when there isn't any. Australia has a professional Civil Defense and Bush Fire Brigade which leads a volunteer force of thousands - people who give up their time and effort to train regularly, and who sometimes die to help others when the need arises.

You calling them incompetent as a throw away line to defend the farce that is happening here, especially when you show no knowledge of their performance, shows a lack of education and intelligence that YOU seem to find lacking in others.

The rest of your reply is self-serving crap. If you were actually in this country you might have a better grasp on what is happening here. There is PLENTY of evidence of incompetence, but don't trust a bunch of farangs, just go to BKK Post and hear what Thais have to say.

If you have bothered to read my post CAREFULLY, you will find that nowhere did I call them incompetent.

In an ironic way, you proved my point - that a Government very often have very little to do with the on-the-ground situations. It's up to respective ministries and volunteer or professional groups. Blaming politicians (who are almost always just temporarily in their jobs) is totally pointless, unless you are the opposition, trying to score points to try and win the next election.

It's like UBS CEO Oswald Gruebel having to step down because of some low level dishonest trader's actions. He bears responsibility ultimately as the CEO but does that mean he was incompetent? Blaming a govt for the the shortcomings of certain ministries who are staffed by bureaucrats is the same thing.

"Aussie government - complete mis-handling of the recent floods and almost every year of bush fires"

Stating that a complete mis-handling almost every year is not saying that they are incompetent. I suppose a similar situation would be if I said that every time you open your mouth, shit comes out, isn't saying that you are full of shit. Of course, I'm not allowed to say that, but I can think it.

My my.... seems like I've hit a raw nerve there by criticising your Government. Not so nice when foreigners criticise YOUR government then, is it? I know, I know, you will try to reply that it is acceptable if the criticism is valid and there is mis-handling or whatever, but then, what you judge as competent may not be seen as such by others. The same applies here in Thailand, some judge the govt to be adequately competent, some don't. I know very well which side of the fence you fall on - your previous posts in many other threads leaves no doubt as to your bias and prejudice.

Since you have now resorted to four letter words (standard vocabulary in Oz when I lived there during my Uni days) in spite of your non too subtle comments to portray differently, this will be my last reply to your posts on this thread.

You haven't criticized my government, you have criticized 2 largely voluntary organizations with professional leadership WITH NO BASIS FOR THAT CRITICISM, AND THEN ATTEMPTED TO WEASEL OUT OF YOUR REMARKS.

Edited October 19, 2011 by OzMick

[Buchholz]

You guys in Bangkok....av not got a clue what as and is coming your way...you can not stop water, which we up north have discovered..enjoy

Agree, there is a massive amount of water heading towards BKK. I like in a fairly elevated area and now my village is cut off; water's rising fast - This is Pak kret, Nonthaburi. The main roads around here look like rivers. It's all gotta go somewhere, and that's south.

Don't listen to anyone telling you BKK is safe!!!

The Nonthaburi Governor has issued an evacuation alert to people living in some districts of Pak Kret as flood levels continue to rise.

There's now been an evacuation order issued for Pak Kret as the Chao Phraya river has breached the embankment in several areas.

.