Bangkok Braces For Unstoppable Flood Waters

[elcent]

The coming high tides are quite dramatic as shown on the attached graph.

Next weekend, the tides will reach over half a meter higher than those high tides we saw last week. This, combined with the incoming water from the north, may be "unstoppable", since the seawalls in some areas are already seeing near-flooding levels.

Contrary to what some "experts" on Thai Visa have said, the tides do not coincide with the full or new moon, and they are not purely sinusoidal. Study the graph, and you can see the cycles change in shape dramatically, sometimes the secondary low-tide cycles are almost skipped.

The actual link is here: 7-Day Tide Chart - Bangkok Port

So it's just a coincidence that there was a full moon last week with exceptionally high tides, and a new moon next weekend with more exceptionally high tides?

The tides are influenced by both the moon and the sun (50% effect of the moon). When they are on the opposite side (full moon) or the same side (new moon) of the earth is when they have the biggest influence.

http://www.timeandda...l?obj=moon&n=28

I was expecting this. Oh well, if you can't read the data, let me explain (yes - why bother?).

Look at the tide chart. It shows the highest coming tide on Sunday, October 30th.

Look at the lunar data you provided. The new moon occurs very early in the morning on October 27th.

Do they coincide? No. Are they related? Of course.

The same happened during the last full moon cycle.

it's like the full/new moon period that doesn't last for only one day. Usually plus/minus 3 - 4 days and you're always there. It's also no coincidence that during these periods crime rates and accidents rise by over 30%.

[robblok]

If Bangkok had opened their gates earlier this might have been prevented. But they did not want to take any risk and keep their feet dry. Now i can get out of control.

I said the same a while back too much water is coming you cant stop it you have to let it in. I have seen the water.. its still here rising a bit all the time. If one of your precious dams burst it will all come in.

We have felt it here, and i hope you wont get more then us at the depth we have it now its still do able.

It's quite clear that what you lack in knowledge you make up for in volume.

You have no idea what you are talking about. The Chao Phraya river drains the central flood plain, not the canals of Bangkok.

The amount of water that can be channeled through Bangkok's floodgates and canals is infinitesimal when compared to the volume of water that flows through the Chao Phraya river.

In other words, opening the flood gates and inundating Bangkok will have a negligible effect on the total volume of water that needs to drain into the Gulf of Thailand.

Allowing the capital of Thailand to flood will have little effect on the overall flood situation but will do great harm to the nation as a whole.

Your repeated calls for Bangkok to flood and share your pain are childish and irresponsible.

Your not getting it either, I do understand its not much but its better as nothing.

Anyway nothing much else to do as post as i cant leave the house.

But tell me o wise one how much can the canals drain.. and how much the river ? Or are you guessing too. I am pretty sure the river drains the most. But if it was so neg liable why would they even consider it ?

I am not calling to flood BKK itself I am pretty sure you guys are going to get wet feet and i just wish you no more water as what i have. Because these levels are survivable and liveable.

I still think that if they started draining through BKK last week then now it would be less then it is. How much less nobody knows not even BBBKK.

Just a thought to cheer your day - if BKK gets 1m+ of water which makes food and potable water deliveries/distribution difficult if not near impossible, a few million people are going to exodus seeking food, water and accommodation. You did say that you were close, fancy some house-guests?

I dont worry about that near here they caught some escapee crocodiles (no joke) so im sure they wont go this way. It was all over the news.

[ihunnieibee]

Good ol' robblok...replying to ever single flood thread!!!!

I'm quite sure everyone knows your opinion on the situation as of now.

Since you're flooded, would it be a good idea to turn off your electricity?

[OzMick]

Just a thought to cheer your day - if BKK gets 1m+ of water which makes food and potable water deliveries/distribution difficult if not near impossible, a few million people are going to exodus seeking food, water and accommodation. You did say that you were close, fancy some house-guests?

I dont worry about that near here they caught some escapee crocodiles (no joke) so im sure they wont go this way. It was all over the news.

Crocodiles are edible, hungry people aren't fussy .

[robblok]

Good ol' robblok...replying to ever single flood thread!!!!

I'm quite sure everyone knows your opinion on the situation as of now.

Since you're flooded, would it be a good idea to turn off your electricity?

Im sure everyone does though many seem to think i want to flood BKK. I wanted to say i hope it wont get worse as it is here. Because im pretty sure part of BKK will be flooded.

Anyway electricity is turned off downstairs, would not want to meet an untimely end.

[tommyyoung]

True, but every little bit helps, but you don't seem to understand what is coming. Every little bit would have helped. You have as much hard knowledge as me and also a gut feeling.

I agree that the river is the main thing to drain. But all the land for miles left and right of the river is flooded. So opening the canals would have helped there.

Bangkok should have taken the risk earlier and are now feeling the results of not acting.

Weeks people are reporting no movement in the canals only now then its almost too late you guys started.

If there's just too much water (I'm quoting PM Yingluck here) opening canals might not have helped too much. With flooding of meters, it will no longer help, at least not where the flooding is. Keep in mind that with massive run-offs even in the Netherlands we let rivers overflow in designated areas as far as possible.

From your local 'mede-kaaskop' and Dutch uncle

Some people (or jackals ?) always complain and need to find a scapegoat (always the same people, or her family) for anything mother nature gives me in good or bad terms. If anyone has the perfect solution should go and make it public , he will save all us, the Thai economy and will be the national hero. It's easy to seat in front of a comp. and insulting and blaming.

Edited October 24, 2011 by tommyyoung

[Crushdepth]

Just a thought to cheer your day - if BKK gets 1m+ of water which makes food and potable water deliveries/distribution difficult if not near impossible, a few million people are going to exodus seeking food, water and accommodation. You did say that you were close, fancy some house-guests?

I dont worry about that near here they caught some escapee crocodiles (no joke) so im sure they wont go this way. It was all over the news.

Crocodiles are edible, hungry people aren't fussy .

I shudder at the thought of 4 meter crocs on the loose. What the hell were they thinking?

[robblok]

Just a thought to cheer your day - if BKK gets 1m+ of water which makes food and potable water deliveries/distribution difficult if not near impossible, a few million people are going to exodus seeking food, water and accommodation. You did say that you were close, fancy some house-guests?

I dont worry about that near here they caught some escapee crocodiles (no joke) so im sure they wont go this way. It was all over the news.

Crocodiles are edible, hungry people aren't fussy .

I shudder at the thought of 4 meter crocs on the loose. What the hell were they thinking?

Dont worry, the government told us these crocodiles are not dangerous they are farm raised they are afraid of humans.

[Crushdepth]

I dont worry about that near here they caught some escapee crocodiles (no joke) so im sure they wont go this way. It was all over the news.

Crocodiles are edible, hungry people aren't fussy .

I shudder at the thought of 4 meter crocs on the loose. What the hell were they thinking?

Dont worry, the government told us these crocodiles are not dangerous they are farm raised they are afraid of humans.

I'll stick to my strategy of fleeing in terror

[duncanb]

Out of interest Pata in Pinklao is currently under about 2 ft of water between arun Amarin and Charansanitwong (forgive the spellings which are no doubt incorrect)

[ES1]

Whatever ever happened to that dumb idea to have 1000boats in the river with their motors running to try speed up the flow of water. Did they add more boats or did someone with half a brain finally realize it won't work?

[whybother]

Some people (or jackals ?) always complain and need to find a scapegoat (always the same people, or her family) for anything mother nature gives me in good or bad terms. If anyone has the perfect solution should go and make it public , he will save all us, the Thai economy and will be the national hero. It's easy to seat in front of a comp. and insulting and blaming.

If the government had ANY solution, it would be good to hear it.

[Tattoo180sx]

Whatever ever happened to that dumb idea to have 1000boats in the river with their motors running to try speed up the flow of water. Did they add more boats or did someone with half a brain finally realize it won't work?

It made for some excellent photos

[TAWP]

If water gets drained faster things will be ok. Get it. If BKK had taken water earlier things would not have nearly been as bad.

No, the main reason your are affected is because the northern run-off was done at a large volume at the last minute, instead of being handled in time.

[robblok]

If water gets drained faster things will be ok. Get it. If BKK had taken water earlier things would not have nearly been as bad.

No, the main reason your are affected is because the northern run-off was done at a large volume at the last minute, instead of being handled in time.

Yes its the main reason I agree 100%. However that was a done deed, now if BKK when they knew what was coming had acted better it might have helped.

I blame the government 100% here for either deed, and the lies and misinformation leading to it. I am sure they must have had satellite or aerial images showing the water slowly coming. They never said a thing. Only when they could not deny it anymore.

[Thunder26]

Here i hope the water will stop rising.. but i doubt it will happen soon. The real test will be 28-30 with the high tides.

What is the reason behind high tides making the flooding worse? I can understand that if the sea level is high, then there flow of the water to the sea will be less or stop.

Is there some kind of data, how high are the river levels compared to the sea level during low and high tides (full or new moon highs)?

As well as, when there is high tides, there will be low tides after 6 hours. Would that help to get rid of the excess water?

Also as Bangkok is pretty lowland, how much above sea level (standard, high tide, low tide) it actually is?

I just wish to understand what are the moving parts in this puzzle.

Just an example! The high tide on the 22nd October caused the river swell above the walls in conditions of water coming from the North, causing floods and chaos on Samsen road near Kiak kai and other close areas. The tides at the end of October are very dangerous and if the river overflows it equals to a tsunami. It is very dangerous as the river is already 2 metres above

Bangkok. Just the walls keep the water out of it.

[GeorgeO]

Six districts. Chatuchack, Don Mueang and.......?

Reminder: Both Bangkok Administration and FROC issued warnings for residents in Don Muang, Bang Kaen, Lak Si, Chatuchak, Sai Mai to be prepared for flood today. /TAN_Network

Source: https://plus.google....BbDAuac2X?hl=en

One district still missing in the above list.

Lat Krabang was on the list of six districts issued over the weekend.

[DocN]

I am beginning to get a very clear picture now, thanks to some of the TV-posters contribution. One thing that is absolutely crystal clear: "letting water flow through Bangkok" will not work, simply because it will not "flow through Bangkok". At best, Bangkok is FLAT, meaning flow is minimized. At worst, Bangkok is a bowl...get it!? I guess, if water would just flow through, they would let it happen. But a) you seem to need A LOT of very powerfull pumps, you would need klongs that are not bottlenecked or blocked by tons of garbage and c) there will be places, where the water will affect everything from everyday live to business by just sitting there and rot, partly bringing the metropolis to a stand still.

And that would multiply the suffering of the WHOLE country. So maybe...just maybe...someone in the acting authorities bunker made a correct evaluation by NOT letting water "flow" through Bangkok?!

[MEGALITHIC]

If Bangkok had opened their gates earlier this might have been prevented. But they did not want to take any risk and keep their feet dry. Now i can get out of control.

I said the same a while back too much water is coming you cant stop it you have to let it in. I have seen the water.. its still here rising a bit all the time. If one of your precious dams burst it will all come in.

We have felt it here, and i hope you wont get more then us at the depth we have it now its still do able.

How do you know? You are making a huge assumption here and with nothing but a gut feeling and some very sad wishful thinking to back it up. Frankly I doubt that it would have made any difference. The canals are peanuts compared to the flow of the river, and we are talking about draining central Thailand here.

True, but every little bit helps, but you don't seem to understand what is coming. Every little bit would have helped. You have as much hard knowledge as me and also a gut feeling.

I agree that the river is the main thing to drain. But all the land for miles left and right of the river is flooded. So opening the canals would have helped there.

Bangkok should have taken the risk earlier and are now feeling the results of not acting.

Weeks people are reporting no movement in the canals only now then its almost too late you guys started.

Actually, it's not that difficult to work out. A volume of water when moving from a higher gradient (upcountry) to a dispersion point (the ocean) will tend to move along the path of least resistence (the canals). The only difference between a small volume and a large volume will be it's spread (flood) while it's getting to it's dispersion point. So it stands to reason that if you block the flow of a volume of water it will back up, and therefore create a spread (flood), in the areas behind the blockage point. This is exactly what has happened. If it was allowed to flow unimpeded the spread (flood) would be less along all areas of it's path of travel. Now it's been blocked up to a point where it's a flash flood situation and when the blockage point bursts (or the gates are opened) the inundation will be far worse than it would have been had the canals been left fully open all the time. There would still have been flooding but not as severe as we are about to see.

[satiariyan]

If Bangkok had opened their gates earlier this might have been prevented. But they did not want to take any risk and keep their feet dry. Now i can get out of control.

I said the same a while back too much water is coming you cant stop it you have to let it in. I have seen the water.. its still here rising a bit all the time. If one of your precious dams burst it will all come in.

We have felt it here, and i hope you wont get more then us at the depth we have it now its still do able.

How do you know? You are making a huge assumption here and with nothing but a gut feeling and some very sad wishful thinking to back it up. Frankly I doubt that it would have made any difference. The canals are peanuts compared to the flow of the river, and we are talking about draining central Thailand here.

True, but every little bit helps, but you don't seem to understand what is coming. Every little bit would have helped. You have as much hard knowledge as me and also a gut feeling.

I agree that the river is the main thing to drain. But all the land for miles left and right of the river is flooded. So opening the canals would have helped there.

Bangkok should have taken the risk earlier and are now feeling the results of not acting.

Weeks people are reporting no movement in the canals only now then its almost too late you guys started.

Actually, it's not that difficult to work out. A volume of water when moving from a higher gradient (upcountry) to a dispersion point (the ocean) will tend to move along the path of least resistence (the canals). The only difference between a small volume and a large volume will be it's spread (flood) while it's getting to it's dispersion point. So it stands to reason that if you block the flow of a volume of water it will back up, and therefore create a spread (flood), in the areas behind the blockage point. This is exactly what has happened. If it was allowed to flow unimpeded the spread (flood) would be less along all areas of it's path of travel. Now it's been blocked up to a point where it's a flash flood situation and when the blockage point bursts (or the gates are opened) the inundation will be far worse than it would have been had the canals been left fully open all the time. There would still have been flooding but not as severe as we are about to see.

While you of course are right in principle, your argument fails due to your assumption that your first sentence applies to bangkoks klongs. They don't. Bankkok is flat and the canal water donesn't have any gradient to follow but must be pumped out into the river by pumps that are likely to fail if they themselves get flooded.

[TAWP]

A good picture how Bangkok would be flooded if the water was released into the city unhindered.

http://bkkbaseface.wordpress.com/2011/10/24/bangkok-flood-elevation-map/

[IsaanUSA]

Not too many photos on Thai Visa, so have to look elsewhere.

It looks like people are leaving Bangkok in droves. Check out these photos.

http://www.pantip.com/cafe/blueplanet/topic/E11243600/E11243600.html

[hammered]

Not too many photos on Thai Visa, so have to look elsewhere.

It looks like people are leaving Bangkok in droves. Check out these photos.

http://www.pantip.com/cafe/blueplanet/topic/E11243600/E11243600.html

It makes BKK at Songkhran look crowded

[WarpSpeed]

I am beginning to get a very clear picture now, thanks to some of the TV-posters contribution. One thing that is absolutely crystal clear: "letting water flow through Bangkok" will not work, simply because it will not "flow through Bangkok". At best, Bangkok is FLAT, meaning flow is minimized. At worst, Bangkok is a bowl...get it!? I guess, if water would just flow through, they would let it happen. But a) you seem to need A LOT of very powerfull pumps, you would need klongs that are not bottlenecked or blocked by tons of garbage and c) there will be places, where the water will affect everything from everyday live to business by just sitting there and rot, partly bringing the metropolis to a stand still.

And that would multiply the suffering of the WHOLE country. So maybe...just maybe...someone in the acting authorities bunker made a correct evaluation by NOT letting water "flow" through Bangkok?!

Yep that's the crux of it... It's a sad fact that up country is the lesser of two evils..

[WarpSpeed]

Not too many photos on Thai Visa, so have to look elsewhere.

It looks like people are leaving Bangkok in droves. Check out these photos.

http://www.pantip.com/cafe/blueplanet/topic/E11243600/E11243600.html

dam_n! That makes me want to get out and do some driving!! Not a puddle in view! and even more so so few cars. I wish I could get there, I'm locked in ..

[rogerdee123]

I am beginning to get a very clear picture now, thanks to some of the TV-posters contribution. One thing that is absolutely crystal clear: "letting water flow through Bangkok" will not work, simply because it will not "flow through Bangkok". At best, Bangkok is FLAT, meaning flow is minimized. At worst, Bangkok is a bowl...get it!? I guess, if water would just flow through, they would let it happen. But a) you seem to need A LOT of very powerfull pumps, you would need klongs that are not bottlenecked or blocked by tons of garbage and c) there will be places, where the water will affect everything from everyday live to business by just sitting there and rot, partly bringing the metropolis to a stand still.

And that would multiply the suffering of the WHOLE country. So maybe...just maybe...someone in the acting authorities bunker made a correct evaluation by NOT letting water "flow" through Bangkok?!

It can't be stopped at this stage.

It made sense to try to stop it (since last week) .... and using the respite to prepare for what's coming this weekend by evacuating people to SAFE evacuation points and stocking the city with food and water several days ago.

But unfortunately it seems like no one in authority took what's about to happen seriously until today, even though it has been predictable .... even by us fools on TV (go back and read some of last weeks posts)

[satiariyan]

Well, at least the air gets much cleaner - it alraedy is, infact.

[Gonsalviz]

Across the country, more than 110,000 evacuees have been forced to seek refuge in 1,743 shelters to escape the waters.

How many people were living in Bangkok? Wasn't that 10 - 12 million? Imagine if only a few percent of them need to be evacuated

Many are from outlying provinces. They will be gone home if anything major happens in the area they work or live. It has already happened in my family.

[swindonabroad]

An excellent video which simply explains the situation right now. Maybe many here are experts and dont need this but it certainly helped me

[swindonabroad]

An excellent video which simply explains the situation right now. Maybe many here are experts and dont need this but it certainly helped me