Questions About Flooding, Why Not Let The Water Go To The Sea From The Beginning ?

[kerryk]

People blame the high dam levels for making the floods worse. While that is no doubt true, it is simply a gamble and this year they gambled the wrong way. Whoever makes that water level decision no doubt thought that it was a good idea to keep the dams near maximum capacity because it was near the end of the NORMAL rainy season. Contrary to some of our farang experts, water management is NOT a simple thing.

What has become quite obvious is that Bangkok has to upgrade their drainage system to replace all the canals and natural drainage areas that were filled or otherwise blocked over the years. I would hope this is done to help prevent future disasters.

You consider September the end of the normal rainy season?

From the Nation.

The delay in releasing water from dams, particularly Bhumibol Dam, in the North has caused mayhem because the water has to be released en masse otherwise the dams would have been broken apart. This Cabinet member has not yet come out to assume any responsibility for his decision that caused unprecedented floods to so far destroy 10,000 factories and plunged millions of Thais into bankruptcy and homelessness.

No, the rainy season is normally finished by October in the north and north east. As far as not being able to release water slowly? Where did that information come from? If your source of information is The Nation, I'd consider more research.

That information is being discussed on two other threads now. The World'S Media Watches As The Floods Reach Bangkok and "The Water Has To Be Released En Masse Otherwise The ... As far as I understand some one did it but no one knows who and I can't figure out why all the water had to be released at one time. Read both threads maybe you can get more out of it than I. As I understand a cabinet minister in September said don't release the water and that is what caused all the problems.

Edited October 28, 2011 by kerryk

[BuckarooBanzai]

IMHO Until long term weather forecasts with accurate localized precipitation estimates become available the dams in Thailand, on an individual basis, need to be classified as either flood mitigation or drought mitigation control systems. Of course there can be flexible guidelines for end of season procedures (ie. storing water at the end of the rainy season in a flood mitigation unit)

The current procedures of by guess and by golly certainly do not do the Thai people or Thai economy justice. As mentioned above it is simply high stakes gambling.

The current capability and reliability of meteorologic forecasting simply do not meet the requirements of dual usage (flood/drought).

[Gary A]

The consensus upcountry is to keep the water levels of the major dams as high as possible. The thinking is that it is better to have too much water than not enough. Rice will mature in several inches of water but no water is a killer and results in total or near total losses.

The perfect situation is for the dams to be at one hundred percent capacity when the rainy season ends. Buckaroo is correct that the weather forecasters totally missed the mark this year and keeping the high water levels backfired.

It does make sense to try to keep the water levels high because too low will result in a cut in electricity generating capacity as well as the irrigation projects suffering.

The major dams are able to release as much or as little water as they want. There are big differences between dams and dikes.

Maybe they need to take another look at the Kaeng Sua Ten Dam in Phrae. The environmentalists and many local people were able to successfully block the project. It now must be determined if there will be more benefit than damage caused by the project. At his point, I'm sure the Bangkok people want it to go ahead.

[IAMHERE]

Use the water machines you say. You must trust those machines, I don't. Maintenance being a falang word in Thailand, when do you think was the last time the filter in them was changed? I'd bet that the only filter those machines ever get is the original one at the factory.

[IAMHERE]

You can try drinking the water from the machine outside my apartment.

If you can find it under 2 metres of water.

Yes, and to think that machine is gonna have a decent filter after being flooded is surely taking an awful chance. I'm betting the filters will never be changed.

[gamini]

Not convinced !

I drink Ozone machine water since years and its very good, only some people who fear their own shadow prefer to pay for expensive useless bottles...

And about the water, if you let it go progressively from the beginning, what is the problem ?

Those machines are not cleaned and are dirty. The big white bottles and the delivered blue bottles are fine though. I actually like them more than the average bottled water, but less than the imported Italian from volcano source

just dont use those cheap machine on street corners.. NEVER CLEANED.

True and how often are the filters replaced in the machines? seldom if you ask me

[anterian]

There seems a lot of confusion over drinking water and which is safest. The simplest approach uses micronic filters, these will remove particulate matter, nematodes and suchlike. Next up the scale is reverse osmosis, this will cope with the removal of most large celled bacteria .

In addition to these processes boiling, for a minimum of 5 minutes will kill all but the hardiest of microbes, even better boil in a microwave oven, microwaves are quite lethal to microorganisms.

Ultra violet light and ozone are effective but you will not have these in your kitchen. You should have bleach, vinegar, alcohol, all of these can be added to water to sterilise it. The chlorine in the bleach and the alcohol can be driven off by boiling, unfortunately vinegar (acetic acid) has a higher boiling point than water so you are stuck with it.

Finally silver can be used to sterilise water, take a nail file to a silver object, make some silver filings in the bottom of a jug, add your filtered water and let it stand for an hour, decant the water so you can reuse the silver.

Human water needs depend on age, body mass, activity level, water content of food and acclimatisation.

Beer will hydrate you better than water but it also increases urine production so no gain. If you are not diabetic sweetened water is better.,

If your aircons are still working they will be producing several litres of distilled water per day, also the ice building up in your fridge is frozen distilled water.

[SanSaiExPat]

the water has been missmanaged for about 3 months now and this is why the current problem exists starting at the dams up north back in Aug sept, it might be prudent of the authorities to revise the steps taken to get us where we are and find out who made all the bad decissions, I suspect that will never happen and the public will never find out, there may be more going on here from a political point of view, I'd even go as far as saying it may have been deliberate, who knows, I know of one instance where it seems a government official refused to open dams in the north some months ago when advised to do so.

Hey Smedly on what do you base your assertion that "the water" has been mismanaged for 3 month now? Three months would take us back to the first of August. At that time the floods were just coming into Chiang Mai. The main flooding didn't occur in Chiang Mai until the end of September as documented here http://myfishsauce.blogspot.com/2011/09/chiang-mai-thailand-great-flood-of.html But in any case, what would you have had the government do? What would constitute proper management? Given that water was coming and the condition of the levees and dam_n's were, "what the are". What could they have done differently? Doesn't the former administration of Aphisit Wetchachiwa bear any responsibility? The time do "do something" constructive about flooding, the time you have an opportunity to make significant infrastructure improvements is years, not days before a flood. I'd say the current administration has made herculean efforts to protect it's citizenry with sandbags and barricades and emergency food and water. This isn't Bangladesh. Yes mistakes have been made and yes in some cases local officials could have acted sooner and in some cases people in power have acted in their own self interests. Your going to have those events and circumstances in any government and in any crisis environment.

[aussiebebe]

Use the water machines you say. You must trust those machines, I don't. Maintenance being a falang word in Thailand, when do you think was the last time the filter in them was changed? I'd bet that the only filter those machines ever get is the original one at the factory.

I laughed so hard reading that coffee came out of my nose, that's a keeper; 'Maintenance being a falang word in Thailand', I'm impressed because I was struggling myself to think of a way to express the same concept this morning when I went to pay my water bill at my condo's management office this morning and saw the air conditioner absolutely filthy. I tried to indicate that it was dirty with my pigeon-Thai "Air sok-a-brok na Krap!" - okay my Thai is crap but even my gesticulation just elicited a blank look. Even if I could convey that cleaning it would lower their electricity bill, it'd be like trying to explain TV to an ant - it's just not worth even trying, is it? As soon as something breaks over here, Thais are like 'Buy new! Buy new!'.

[kerryk]

the water has been missmanaged for about 3 months now and this is why the current problem exists starting at the dams up north back in Aug sept, it might be prudent of the authorities to revise the steps taken to get us where we are and find out who made all the bad decissions, I suspect that will never happen and the public will never find out, there may be more going on here from a political point of view, I'd even go as far as saying it may have been deliberate, who knows, I know of one instance where it seems a government official refused to open dams in the north some months ago when advised to do so.

Hey Smedly on what do you base your assertion that "the water" has been mismanaged for 3 month now? Three months would take us back to the first of August. At that time the floods were just coming into Chiang Mai. The main flooding didn't occur in Chiang Mai until the end of September as documented here http://myfishsauce.blogspot.com/2011/09/chiang-mai-thailand-great-flood-of.html But in any case, what would you have had the government do? What would constitute proper management? Given that water was coming and the condition of the levees and dam_n's were, "what the are". What could they have done differently? Doesn't the former administration of Aphisit Wetchachiwa bear any responsibility? The time do "do something" constructive about flooding, the time you have an opportunity to make significant infrastructure improvements is years, not days before a flood. I'd say the current administration has made herculean efforts to protect it's citizenry with sandbags and barricades and emergency food and water. This isn't Bangladesh. Yes mistakes have been made and yes in some cases local officials could have acted sooner and in some cases people in power have acted in their own self interests. Your going to have those events and circumstances in any government and in any crisis environment.

I think it has been pretty well discussed maybe two month is more accurate. They got a call from someone important and were told to keep the dams full. It may have been the right call in a different year but not this year as things turned out. But it was my understanding if the water had been released a couple of months ago farmers may have been upset but the flooding situation would not have been as bad. I don't want to repeat the same stuff that is running in two other threads but if you look you can find the quotes from the Thai news.

[qdinthailand]

I used those watermachines for about 6 months untill I found GREEN ALGUES growing in my bottle,never again since.

Don't know what you mean with cheap mineral water as the water from the machines is in fact de-mineralised.I now buy the bottles of mineral water from makro house brand at I think 49 baht for 6 x 1,5 liters.

And I buy 20liter bottles of bottled water (at 1 baht per liter), fill up smaller 6 liter bottles from the bigger bottle, and guess what? After a few months, the 6liter bottles turn green from Algae growth even though they've only contained 'bottled water' bought from the water bottlers.

besides - that algae won't hurt you - same algae that will grow in clear mountain streams. It's the bacteria, and the harmful algae blooms - the red tide stuff - that'll make you sick.

Edited November 2, 2011 by qdinthailand

[aneliane]

It's the recommended amount by the US embassy for flood prep

It's not the actual water, its the containers !

We need 3 L per person per day, that 21 L per week. No one can predict the power (drinking water machines need electricity) cut and how long it will last for.

Now the Gvnt says the crisis might last 6 weeks, that is a lot of bottles to find !

Recycle bottles are sold 10b for empty 1.5L last week in my condo and prices are rising.

Maids have found a good way to get quick cash I guess !

Tiny 800ml water gourds used to be 8b now 35.

Also for shower/toilet water, plastic buckets price are soaring : up to 1000 for the big ones ..

This 3L per person per day is a highly subjective thing. Especially for foreigners who can afford it, if you eat out and get something to drink, a lot of people can go on a lot less. To give my personal experience, I've been here for a month, and when we arrived the hotel gave us a 5L bottle of water. We just finished it. Other than that, when we go out we buy water only once in a while, and often when eating out we drink a soft drink or juice or something else. Maybe not the healthiest habit, I'll grant you that, but bearing in mind the circumstances, I think the important thing to point out is that you're unlikely to die of thirst even if you can't secure 3L of water a day. I'm not preaching being irresponsible here, I did get some water just in case (though probably not nearly as much as others), but don't go by some standard measurement. Hopefully grownups know themselves well enough by now to gauge how much is sufficient for them.

Sure, but I know myself a little better than the US Embassy does, so I'll decide my water requirements based on that. I'd say especially for people with kids, yeah, don't play around and make sure you have ample supplies. If you're an adult only responsible for yourself, there are some calls you can make that aren't always in accordance to what everybody is recommending.

The US embassy is the only official corporation that has actually given some real handy and clear emergency flood instructions.

And for once, I personally am grateful for this, in this mayhem of miscommunication, quabbles beetween FROC and BMA, wrong, vague predictions, Thaiflood deciding to quit collaboration with FROC, and the fact that no one actually did know what was the deal for 2 weeks... .

The whale video (And if you ask me that was a daft analogy) came way too late, and never gave any figures or anything precise figures in term of practicalities like how much water, drinking/washing, food, for how long, what's to include in a survival pack (torch, batteries, matches, candles etc) etc...

I think that what triggered panic buying, in doubt you just buy more ...

Supermarkets were full of buyers in doubt, hands were hesitating, shall I take one more . In my condo, the same people are fed up with being left in the dark.

And obviously 3 Liters an average, I don't have a baby but personally was diagnosed as dehydrated on 2L so I need 4L daily here.

This is what governments do in time of crisis, give basic instructions that suit the average, it is obviously your responsibility to adapt to your lifestyle

But seriously? Is this is the time to squabble about this? Aren't there are just more important and pressing things right now in Thailand.?