Flood-Hit Thailand Declines Offer Of Help: US Navy

[tlansford]

Very good video / TV interview with the US Ambassador on what has actually been done.

page 2 of Thailand Live, US Ambassador @KristieKenney responds to yesterdays AFP report about US Navy relief operation

Could someone please grab a fire extinguisher for the 21 pages of flaming?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I just feel sorry for the regular Thai people, that they're being so ill-served by their government...

Nearly 400 people dead. A good portion of the country submerged. The Thai's own relief supplies effort operating at best marginally, and even PT politicians accusing their own colleagues of playing favorites with supplies... And Bangkok, the capital city, supposedly about to be inundated.

Whether for rescue ops or ferrying needed supplies, a U.S. Navy carrier task force and all the capabilities that come with it could have given the Thais' own efforts a major boost in logistics, if nothing else. But no, the Thai government doesn't apparently want that kind of help.

Yes, the U.S. Navy has ONE destroyer in port that's specced to have TWO helicopters, which mostly seem to be being used at present for survey operations. In contrast, the USS George Washington is specced for carrying something like 85 aircraft (I don't know the breakdown on jets vs. choppers that it's carrying at present). Anyway you cut it, the added resources would have been a big boost.

My wife worked out of DM Airport earlier this week packing supply bags and then going out on a trip to deliver them. It took a good part of the day just getting to their destination in Pathum Thani, first traveling by truck over congested roads, then by hand transferring the supply bags to several boats, then journeying from there. A helicopter trip could have done the whole delivery in probably less than an hour...

The only people losing out by the Thai government's refusal are the Thai people themselves. It's sad.

[transam]

Thairath's quoting the AFP story in the OP here, so the Thais will be aware of the 'rejection' of help.

Thank you for that.

That's good to know because they need to know it happened.

It seems crazy to turn away help, especially so much help as this, during a time of calamity.

+1

[Just1Voice]

Has anyone in the Thai government issued a statement as to why the US navy's offer of help was refused? In English please as I cannot read Thai.

Yeah, the Thai Foreign Minister issued a statement saying the U.S. Navy decided the flooding wasn't really all that bad, not a disaster, so they left. And if you believe that one, I've got some prime, dry, riverfront property in Tak, and some great Industrial park land in Ayutthaya to sell real cheap.

[transam]

Has anyone in the Thai government issued a statement as to why the US navy's offer of help was refused? In English please as I cannot read Thai.

Yeah, the Thai Foreign Minister issued a statement saying the U.S. Navy decided the flooding wasn't really all that bad, not a disaster, so they left. And if you believe that one, I've got some prime, dry, riverfront property in Tak, and some great Industrial park land in Ayutthaya to sell real cheap.

If that's the case l hope someone has the balls to go on Thai TV News to tell the population what the folk in charge of stuff here have said regarding help from the USA .

[chadintheusa]

Really?

Everyone knows they need assistance.

This is absurd.

Are we really going to watch people suffer and die?

Refusing help on the verge of a humanitarian disaster is beyond belief.

Doesn't anyone in FROC have any common sense?

Should we really expect any different by now?

[Just1Voice]

Has anyone in the Thai government issued a statement as to why the US navy's offer of help was refused? In English please as I cannot read Thai.

Yeah, the Thai Foreign Minister issued a statement saying the U.S. Navy decided the flooding wasn't really all that bad, not a disaster, so they left. And if you believe that one, I've got some prime, dry, riverfront property in Tak, and some great Industrial park land in Ayutthaya to sell real cheap.

If that's the case l hope someone has the balls to go on Thai TV News to tell the population what the folk in charge of stuff here have said regarding help from the USA .

You forgetting TIT? Neverrrr, gonna happen here. They tell people what they WANT to tell them, and most of the time it has absolutely NO relevance to the actual truth.

A week or so ago: "Bangkok is perfectly safe!"

A few days later: "Bangkok might see a LITTLE flooding in SOME areas."

A few days later: "Ok, it's gonna flood and there ain't shit we can do about it, but there's no need to panic."

I'm waiting for: "Run for your lives!"

[transam]

Has anyone in the Thai government issued a statement as to why the US navy's offer of help was refused? In English please as I cannot read Thai.

Yeah, the Thai Foreign Minister issued a statement saying the U.S. Navy decided the flooding wasn't really all that bad, not a disaster, so they left. And if you believe that one, I've got some prime, dry, riverfront property in Tak, and some great Industrial park land in Ayutthaya to sell real cheap.

If that's the case l hope someone has the balls to go on Thai TV News to tell the population what the folk in charge of stuff here have said regarding help from the USA .

You forgetting TIT? Neverrrr, gonna happen here. They tell people what they WANT to tell them, and most of the time it has absolutely NO relevance to the actual truth.

A week or so ago: "Bangkok is perfectly safe!"

A few days later: "Bangkok might see a LITTLE flooding in SOME areas."

A few days later: "Ok, it's gonna flood and there ain't shit we can do about it, but there's no need to panic."

I'm waiting for: "Run for your lives!"

Think your right.

[BuckarooBanzai]

US Embassy Bangkok

Ambassador Kenney and crew members from the USS Mustin visit the Flood Relief Operations Center at Don Muang to announce a 300,000 baht donation. What makes this donation extra special is the Sailors donated their own personal money to the people of Thailand to assist with flood relief.

Added after transam post to show where the money was going.

@KristieKenney Kristie Kenney

Heartwarming to see US Navy sailors donate their personal money to Thai Red Cross.

Edited October 26, 2011 by BuckarooBanzai

[transam]

US Embassy Bangkok

Ambassador Kenney and crew members from the USS Mustin visit the Flood Relief Operations Center at Don Muang to announce a 300,000 baht donation. What makes this donation extra special is the Sailors donated their own personal money to the people of Thailand to assist with flood relief.

http://www.facebook....&type=1

Lets hope the natives get the cash eh.

[DP25]

Very good video / TV interview with the US Ambassador on what has actually been done.

page 2 of Thailand Live, US Ambassador @KristieKenney responds to yesterdays AFP report about US Navy relief operation

Could someone please grab a fire extinguisher for the 21 pages of flaming?

She's the ambassador, her job is to be diplomatic. She's not going to come out and criticize the government for refusing the aid of a US aircraft carrier group. Her job is also to smooth over comments that have been said by others. She is serving the best interests of the US not of Thailand, which is to have good relations with the government and not embarrass or insult them. If her explanation of why the carrier and its massive disaster relief ability isn't wanted sound convincing then ok

[BuckarooBanzai]

http://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/carrier-group-departs-thai-coast-marines-assist-in-flood-relief-1.158706

SASEBO NAVAL BASE, Japan — The George Washington Carrier Strike Group and other Navy assets have been released from the waters off Thailand where they were positioned to offer humanitarian assistance after the country was stricken by its worst flooding in decades, Navy officials said Tuesday.

The aircraft carrier USS George Washington and destroyers USS Dewey, USS Wayne E. Meyer, and USS Kidd had been in the area for port visits and exercises in Singapore and Cambodia when the order came Oct. 15 to head towards Thailand - still reeling from three months of heavy monsoon rains, Navy officials said.

Officials stressed the ships could be recalled to the area should the Thai government make a request for help, and U.S. personnel will continue to monitor the situation.

A 10-man Humanitarian Assistance Survey Team comprised of Marines from the 3rd Marine Expeditionary Force on Okinawa is still on the ground and the guided-missile destroyer USS Mustin arrived for a port visit in Laem Chabang on Friday to participate in community service events, Marine and Navy officials said.

“The duration and extent of any U.S. support come from the assessment of the HAST, what the Government of Thailand requests through the U.S. Department of State, and what the U.S. military can actually provide based on legal authorities and funding,” said 7th Fleet spokesman Lt. Anthony Falvo in an email to Stars and Stripes. “The response efforts of the highly capable and competent Thai government and military have been sufficient in alleviating immediate concern.”

[keemapoot]

How much clearer could the message be? The US has offered unconditional help, and said they would be willing to recall the fleet should any request come from the Thai government. My God, the America bashers should just crawl back in their self-hating holes....

[Just1Voice]

Yes, she's a politician, which means:

POLITICIAN

Political

Operatives

Legally

Iinterred

To

Idiotically

Create

Insane,

Assinine

Notions

I rest my case.

Edited October 26, 2011 by Just1Voice

[tlansford]

Very good video / TV interview with the US Ambassador on what has actually been done.

page 2 of Thailand Live, US Ambassador @KristieKenney responds to yesterdays AFP report about US Navy relief operation

Could someone please grab a fire extinguisher for the 21 pages of flaming?

She's the ambassador, her job is to be diplomatic. She's not going to come out and criticize the government for refusing the aid of a US aircraft carrier group. Her job is also to smooth over comments that have been said by others. She is serving the best interests of the US not of Thailand, which is to have good relations with the government and not embarrass or insult them. If her explanation of why the carrier and its massive disaster relief ability isn't wanted sound convincing then ok

did you actually watch the video and listen to what she said? I suspect not, as the USA aid WAS NOT REFUSED.

Thai TV interviewed the ambassador, who is deeply involved in the flood relief efforts, and they discussed EXACTLY what has happened and how the USA is HELPING now. They discussed how the US was engaged from the start, how the US and Thai worked together to determine the needs and the response, and then how that response is being EXECUTED NOW.

Sorry to YELL, in caps, but the interview was extensive and there is a lot of information in it. Very good for everyone to watch before posting more nonsense here.

And for the people who just want to complain, they should watch the interview and listen to a couple of practical ideas the ambassador proposed for everyone to help.

[rogerdee123]

I think U.S. government should not withdraw their fleet. With or with out request from Thai government. They should make their ships on stand-by, just for the sake of their own people. Just in case anything goes wrong.

The US nor does any country have enough ships/personnel to stand by, off various locations of the world "just for the sake of their own people", where " Just in case anything could go wrong" Now Thailand has 1000 boats propelling water to the ocean, 1000 bamboo rafts on the way, and thousands of inter tubes, boats, etc, which are avaliable or proposed.

Anyone with any self preservation instinct, watching or observing the present fiasco has already disappeared under the radar (out of sight, out of mind). Some Thai wannabe honcho probably wanted to drive the aircraft carrier as well as handle aircraft logistics.

well the military could stage a coup and take over and then they would invite the US to come in save some lives.

[DP25]

did you actually watch the video and listen to what she said? I suspect not, as the USA aid WAS NOT REFUSED.

Yeah, I did. It was a lot of diplo speach trying to politely explain away why the aircraft carrier wasn't needed and avoid causing further insult or embarrassment to the government. If you buy that explanation that that tiny ship on shore leave that is not designed for disaster relief and capable of doing little was just the right amount then fair enough.

[ResX]

If this isn't absolute proof of their bona fide stupidity, nothing is. It's as if they want people to die.

It's starting to look that way...

It's the same old "loss of Face" stupidity. When was the last time a Thai Government

accepted the offer of help from foreign government? If they had called in people from

foreign countries with experience in water management in low lying areas (Netherlands

to name one) many, many years ago, then perhaps this flood may have been less of a

disaster than it is now. The least that could have been done was to make a study of

other countries defenses against flooding and adapted them to suit Thailand.

Exactly. Thailand needs help, badly, in Water Management. Hopefully, Thailand government has realized it that by now.

[tlansford]

did you actually watch the video and listen to what she said? I suspect not, as the USA aid WAS NOT REFUSED.

Yeah, I did. It was a lot of diplo speach trying to politely explain away why the aircraft carrier wasn't needed and avoid causing further insult or embarrassment to the government. If you buy that explanation that that tiny ship on shore leave that is not designed for disaster relief and capable of doing little was just the right amount then fair enough.

Likewise, if you chose to believe a 1/2 page AFP report with unnamed sources and discount the documented process & actions as described extensively by the ambassador on TV, that is up to you.

[transam]

How much clearer could the message be? The US has offered unconditional help, and said they would be willing to recall the fleet should any request come from the Thai government. My God, the America bashers should just crawl back in their self-hating holes....

+1

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

TL is flatly wrong above...

There's some kind of weird political word game being played here in the Thai media...

Over the past 24 hours, all the Thai reporters keep asking the U.S. Ambassador the same kind of question... "Is is really true the U.S. is withdrawing all flood relief aid or just flood relief aid, period, because of the Thai government?" To which she can correctly and truthfully answer, no, the U.S. is not.

But the weird part is, no one ever said or claimed the U.S. was withdrawing flood relief aid...

The ONLY thing that got reported, correctly, was that the USS George Washington aircraft carrier task force and all its air resources, which the U.S. had begun deploying toward Thailand, was released and sent onward to Japan after the Thai government chose not to request its assistance.

The question Thai reporters should have been asking their own government was: why would the Thai government turn down all the air resources of a U.S. Navy aircraft carrier task force that could have significantly improved the country's disaster response capability, whether for rescue ops or ferrying supplies and logistics?

The silliest but sad response came from the Thai Foreign Ministry spokesman via the BKK Post when he claimed U.S. policy only allowed air resources to be used for humanitarian aid when lives are endangered... Maybe someone forgot to remind the Foreign Ministry that close to 400 Thais have already died...and the show hasn't even begun in Bangkok as yet.

[transam]

TL is flatly wrong above...

There's some kind of weird political word game being played here in the Thai media...

Over the past 24 hours, all the Thai reporters keep asking the U.S. Ambassador the same kind of question... "Is is really true the U.S. is withdrawing all flood relief aid or just flood relief aid, period, because of the Thai government?" To which she can correctly and truthfully answer, no, the U.S. is not.

But the weird part is, no one ever said or claimed the U.S. was withdrawing flood relief aid...

The ONLY thing that got reported, correctly, was that the USS George Washington aircraft carrier task force and all its air resources, which the U.S. had begun deploying toward Thailand, was released and sent onward to Japan after the Thai government chose not to request its assistance.

The question Thai reporters should have been asking their own government was: why would the Thai government turn down all the air resources of a U.S. Navy aircraft carrier task force that could have significantly improved the country's disaster response capability, whether for rescue ops or ferrying supplies and logistics?

The silliest but sad response came from the Thai Foreign Ministry spokesman via the BKK Post when he claimed U.S. policy only allowed air resources to be used for humanitarian aid when lives are endangered... Maybe someone forgot to remind the Foreign Ministry that close to 400 Thais have already died...and the show hasn't even begun in Bangkok as yet.

+1, crazy stuff by those who are in no danger eh.

[NanLaew]

Very good video / TV interview with the US Ambassador on what has actually been done.

page 2 of Thailand Live, US Ambassador @KristieKenney responds to yesterdays AFP report about US Navy relief operation

Could someone please grab a fire extinguisher for the 21 pages of flaming?

She's the ambassador, her job is to be diplomatic. She's not going to come out and criticize the government for refusing the aid of a US aircraft carrier group. Her job is also to smooth over comments that have been said by others. She is serving the best interests of the US not of Thailand, which is to have good relations with the government and not embarrass or insult them. If her explanation of why the carrier and its massive disaster relief ability isn't wanted sound convincing then ok

Oh please!!!!

I saw this on television last night at Suvarnabhumi as I waited for my flight home. I thought great, this will dispel the myth, spin and rumor that has fueled the past 4 or 5 pages of this thread.

Then along comes DP25....

[philw]

did you actually watch the video and listen to what she said? I suspect not, as the USA aid WAS NOT REFUSED.

Yeah, I did. It was a lot of diplo speach trying to politely explain away why the aircraft carrier wasn't needed and avoid causing further insult or embarrassment to the government. If you buy that explanation that that tiny ship on shore leave that is not designed for disaster relief and capable of doing little was just the right amount then fair enough.

Did you watch the interview ??

What she said was very clear.

The aircraft carrier and her support vessels were withdrawn because American disaster experts assessed that they already had enough assistance in place for immediate needs.

Please study what she said.

It was an American decision to withdraw the group and NOT a Thai government "refusal" of assistance and the title of this thread is another example of the sensationalism that sadly so many posters leap to enjoy.

Edited October 26, 2011 by philw

[rogerdee123]

The US Govt (or any Govt) is not like some NGO or private business that comes to Thailand to ask permission to help.

Govt's have to be "invited" by the counterpart Govt.

Simply look at this thread and all the mud slinging and name calling. Even people on this thread (and maybe the Red Shirts) would call it a US invasion.

The US (and every other Govt) tells the Thai Govt they have xxxx resources available to help IF REQUESTED. But it's a Govt to Govt arrangement and agreement. If the Thai Govt sits on their hands or otherwise doesn't want to make the request .... fine ... no offer has been declined and indeed no offer has even been made.

It's like a neighbor saying .... I've got this food and water here. If you need it, just ask. And then the neighbor doesn't ask. The needy neighbor hasn't refused to receive. He simply hasn't asked.

It's not like one neighbor is saying ... "take this food and water" and the other neighbor saying ..." No I don't want it".

Yes a small group of marines or whatever have been here working with the Thai military under existing formal military agreements.

So the Thai Govt did not decline US assistance. They simply did not ask for it when it was available for whatever reason.

When the Thai Govt did not request the assistance that was available .... nothing happened.

Many AID agencies and Un work the same way. The Thai Govt (or some local agency or orphanage or whatever is informed what's available and it's up to them to request it if they want it.

So the ambassador is correct. The Thai Govt did not decline or refuse. They simply did not request. have not requested help that they were told is available if they want it.

[serenitynow]

The US Govt (or any Govt) is not like some NGO or private business that comes to Thailand to ask permission to help.

Govt's have to be "invited" by the counterpart Govt.

Simply look at this thread and all the mud slinging and name calling. Even people on this thread (and maybe the Red Shirts) would call it a US invasion.

The US (and every other Govt) tells the Thai Govt they have xxxx resources available to help IF REQUESTED. But it's a Govt to Govt arrangement and agreement. If the Thai Govt sits on their hands or otherwise doesn't want to make the request .... fine ... no offer has been declined and indeed no offer has even been made.

It's like a neighbor saying .... I've got this food and water here. If you need it, just ask. And then the neighbor doesn't ask. The needy neighbor hasn't refused to receive. He simply hasn't asked.

It's not like one neighbor is saying ... "take this food and water" and the other neighbor saying ..." No I don't want it".

Yes a small group of marines or whatever have been here working with the Thai military under existing formal military agreements.

So the Thai Govt did not decline US assistance. They simply did not ask for it when it was available for whatever reason.

When the Thai Govt did not request the assistance that was available .... nothing happened.

Many AID agencies and Un work the same way. The Thai Govt (or some local agency or orphanage or whatever is informed what's available and it's up to them to request it if they want it.

So the ambassador is correct. The Thai Govt did not decline or refuse. They simply did not request. have not requested help that they were told is available if they want it.

Correct. Thanks for your post.

[rogerdee123]

I think the statement the US Defense Dept made was in reference to .... the Thai Military wanted to request assistance from the US military for more extensive relief operations ... all those choppers, food and water etc .... and the US Military knows this and knows that probably the Thai Military channeled their request up thru the chain of commend until it got to the Govt ... Defense Minister or PM. Then nothing further happened to it.

Thus the US Defence Dept person said ... one channel says "Yes' and another says "No". In reality the "No" probably didn't come from the PM, it probably came from the Thai military who said something like .... "they are not going to allow it".

While the Ambassador and the State Dept diplomats are saying their diplomatic double speak.

[rogerdee123]

Correct. Thanks for your post.

sure no problem neighbor

[overhaul38]

...today the US help you, tomorrow they'll be ready to reclaim the favor and put it in your a**...

and don't tell me it never happened before

Don't look now but your bias is showing.

[geriatrickid]

Why is reference made to the USN vessels carrying "all that food and water"? They were not. These are warships, not an aid convoy. The food and water available for the needs of refugees is minimal. An aircraft carrier has a minimum number of helicopters and they are specialized aircraft, i.e. search and rescue for downed aircrew, mine clearing etc. An aircraft carrier carries aircraft for offensive (or defensive) purposes. It is not a refugee or disaster response vessel. There are vessels that are more appropriate, such as supply tenders and hospital ships. Those specialized vessels have not left Japan.

The reference to the use of the carrier to land heavy equipment is spurious. At this time, no one is quite sure where the safe staging points in Thailand are, because the flood exposure is so great. That is why the USN has an assessment team deployed. Once the assessment is completed, there will be an appropriate response. To be blunt, having more personnel milling about in the danger zone will not help. It is too late to build dams and dykes. If an when foreign resources are needed, it will be after Bangkok is flooded.