Thaksin To Definitely Return In December: Kwanchai

[rubl]

K. Thaksin's well-know, and advocated management style 'go, do it', 'solve it', suggests an utter contempt for how it's done. Don't bother me with details, it's up to you. Or in the words of Pheu Thai party list MP and UDD leader k. Nattawut 'let them come to me, I take responsibility' and sue any who dares to say a single word

(scene: VIP says 'I have a problem', servants go 'does your problem have a name?' Canterbury, 1170 AD)

The Henry 2 parallel doesn't really work.The Thai army is a law to itself and has committed crimes against civilians in the South before, during and after Thaksin's time in government.It is never accountable and the criminals concerned are never brought to justice.

All this to explain that then PM Thaksin is absolutely innocent and cannot be found guilty of 'crimes' committed by the armed forces while he was being PM.

Anyway regarding the OP as I said before k. Thaksin can come back anytime he wants. Still awaiting his return from the 2008 Beijing Olympic Games

[hammered]

It will be interesting to see how Thaksin uses the flood later. Right now he stays quiet but is fully aware that he was always regarded, even by his enemies, as the the most effective can do PM - Abhisit was weak and couldnt control the bureaucracy, the military government couldnt get any first choices to work for them, and Yingluck hasnt shown control over the bureaucracy her brother did. After such a natural disaster I would be surprised if there were no people thinking if Thaksin came back we could sort this recovery out a lot better, and Im sure he will give public advice from afar

If the fuguitive messiah is so great and holy, only capable of spewing forth words of wisdom in the correction of all that is wrong in Thailand, how come he has been so quiet of the matter of the floods and the lead-up to the disaster. As he knows all, surely the warning to release water from the already filled dams should have been made sometime back - - the cry of Thaksin thinks etc etc seems to have fallen short, or is it only applied in matters that are in his self interest.

The release data on the dams shows the water not being released was before the tenure of this government in case you havent noticed. When they assumed office release was acclerated over normal. It was when the election was called, during the campaign and while government formation was taking place that the release was reduced to well below mormal levels. That is not the fault of either the outgoing or incoming government in my opinion but a reflection of how the Thai bureaucracy works

My point on Thaksin is that he is the only PM in recent memory who could get the buraucracy to do most of what was wanted when in power. Yingluck hasnt been able to although it is early days, Abhisit couldnt, the army installed government couldnt. Put that with people wanting efficient recovery and it isnt a big leap to see some or many will think about it. Considering where he is now and how he is fugitive number one to the elite of course he cant do a thing now, but that still doesnt undermine a record of being able to get things done that no other PM could, for good and bad too.

[rubl]

begin removed ...

My point on Thaksin is that he is the only PM in recent memory who could get the buraucracy to do most of what was wanted when in power. Yingluck hasnt been able to although it is early days, Abhisit couldnt, the army installed government couldnt. Put that with people wanting efficient recovery and it isnt a big leap to see some or many will think about it. Considering where he is now and how he is fugitive number one to the elite of course he cant do a thing now, but that still doesnt undermine a record of being able to get things done that no other PM could, for good and bad too.

IMHO the bad doesn't compensate for the good. If lots of Thai have been fighting for 'democracy' a 'push-it-through' uncontrollable manager type of PM is the last we need

[jaidam]

or if he commanded a force which killed nearly a hundred young men in gov't detention

Actually he didn't.He was PM at the time and after the Tak Bai massacre made some foolish and ill advised remarks.But he did not command the force responsible which was of course the Thai army.No generals took responsibility and the officers concerned were absolved of all charges under a military court under the Abhisit administration.

Actually he did. I was watching news on television on the fateful day and Thaksin gave an interview/press conf when the demonstrations started. He said words to the very effect that he was personally going to the southern province to personally supervise the management of this demo. I stayed home waiting for the update that would happen when his excellency arrived in the south and had successfully calmed the situation.

After several hours the news reported on a massacre with huge number of deaths, no news of Thaksin going there to personally deal with the situation. Conveniently left out of all subsequent reports. Not the 1st time he muzzled the press.

When forced to give info, then we had the classic Thaksin quote about them being weak from not having eaten that morning cos it was Ramadan.

It is foolish in the extreme to think the military dealt with Tak Bai/ Krue Se alone without explicit go-ahead from the country's CEO, get things done guy. Perhaps he was a bit surprised by the eventual death toll, but its doubtful seeing as he then went on to have 1000's of innocents slayed in the war on drugs.

[a99az]

Oh! Not again.

[a99az]

Will he have to do 90 day reporting?

[Artisi]

Will he have to do 90 day reporting?

Do you need to do 90day reports if you are in gaol (jail)?

Edited November 8, 2011 by Artisi

[jayboy]

Actually he did. I was watching news on television on the fateful day and Thaksin gave an interview/press conf when the demonstrations started. He said words to the very effect that he was personally going to the southern province to personally supervise the management of this demo. I stayed home waiting for the update that would happen when his excellency arrived in the south and had successfully calmed the situation.

After several hours the news reported on a massacre with huge number of deaths, no news of Thaksin going there to personally deal with the situation. Conveniently left out of all subsequent reports. Not the 1st time he muzzled the press.

When forced to give info, then we had the classic Thaksin quote about them being weak from not having eaten that morning cos it was Ramadan.

It is foolish in the extreme to think the military dealt with Tak Bai/ Krue Se alone without explicit go-ahead from the country's CEO, get things done guy. Perhaps he was a bit surprised by the eventual death toll, but its doubtful seeing as he then went on to have 1000's of innocents slayed in the war on drugs.

We know that Thaksin's record in the South was deplorable.That's not being debated

But can you clarify, because it isn't fully clear from your post, that you are saying that Thaksin went to the South and was directly involved in the Tak Bai massacre.

Can you also provide a reference to the press conference/interview where he said he was going to the South to manage the situation.None of the many accounts of the background make reference to this, even those with strong hostility to Thaksin.

It's quite important to be clear about this because on the face of it what you say is untrue.You are now being given an opportunity to clarify or retract.

[letitbe]

Your reasoning implies that unlike the red-shirt / UDD community you would put most of the deaths in April/May 2010 at the doorsteps of the army rather than k. Abhisit / Suthep ?

Not really, in fact not at all because Abhisit/Suthep were directly involved in the decision to use live fire on protestors.

In the case of Tak Bai, Thaksin knew nothing about it until after the event.

youll believe anything wont you

[Siripon]

It will be interesting to see how Thaksin uses the flood later. Right now he stays quiet but is fully aware that he was always regarded, even by his enemies, as the the most effective can do PM - Abhisit was weak and couldnt control the bureaucracy, the military government couldnt get any first choices to work for them, and Yingluck hasnt shown control over the bureaucracy her brother did. After such a natural disaster I would be surprised if there were no people thinking if Thaksin came back we could sort this recovery out a lot better, and Im sure he will give public advice from afar

If the fuguitive messiah is so great and holy, only capable of spewing forth words of wisdom in the correction of all that is wrong in Thailand, how come he has been so quiet of the matter of the floods and the lead-up to the disaster. As he knows all, surely the warning to release water from the already filled dams should have been made sometime back - - the cry of Thaksin thinks etc etc seems to have fallen short, or is it only applied in matters that are in his self interest.

Actually Thaksin didn't keep quiet, he's incapable of that. He twittered that when he was still PM he had drawn up a master plan and project to deal with the chronic problem of floods but alas the coup had overthrown him before he had time to implement it! Of course.

He never solved Bangkok's traffic problems which he promised to do in 6 months.

And now there's talk of a Cabinet reshuffle only 2 months into his government's tenure- that's almost unheard of in Thai politics. Perhaps he's nervous of loss of public support and rather than praying for the messiah to return the public might start thinking as to why Thaksin was so selfish as to put a complete political novice in the PM's seat.

[sparebox2]

Thaksin To Definitely Return In December?

In a flying boat perhaps? Landing on Sanam bin num (water airport) in Nonthaburi?

[jaidam]

Actually he did. I was watching news on television on the fateful day and Thaksin gave an interview/press conf when the demonstrations started. He said words to the very effect that he was personally going to the southern province to personally supervise the management of this demo. I stayed home waiting for the update that would happen when his excellency arrived in the south and had successfully calmed the situation.

After several hours the news reported on a massacre with huge number of deaths, no news of Thaksin going there to personally deal with the situation. Conveniently left out of all subsequent reports. Not the 1st time he muzzled the press.

When forced to give info, then we had the classic Thaksin quote about them being weak from not having eaten that morning cos it was Ramadan.

It is foolish in the extreme to think the military dealt with Tak Bai/ Krue Se alone without explicit go-ahead from the country's CEO, get things done guy. Perhaps he was a bit surprised by the eventual death toll, but its doubtful seeing as he then went on to have 1000's of innocents slayed in the war on drugs.

We know that Thaksin's record in the South was deplorable.That's not being debated

But can you clarify, because it isn't fully clear from your post, that you are saying that Thaksin went to the South and was directly involved in the Tak Bai massacre.

Can you also provide a reference to the press conference/interview where he said he was going to the South to manage the situation.None of the many accounts of the background make reference to this, even those with strong hostility to Thaksin.

It's quite important to be clear about this because on the face of it what you say is untrue.You are now being given an opportunity to clarify or retract.

Why retract? I was stating what I heard/saw on television at the start of the demonstration, and remembered this event clearly. As for the source it was most likely TAN news as I was watching on UBC and the story was in English language on a Thai station. It was just after Thaksin had acquired his Airbus319, was mentioned that he would be travelling to the south in this plane so I can't be mistaking this event for Krue Se which occured before he got his plane.

I also remember looking for Thaksin's personal involvement in the following days from other media. There was nothing at all. As if it had never happened. Much like the runway cracks. Forced apology from the papers and then not reported on ,so never happened. Or did they?

At risk of flogging an already dead horse, this is the problem with electing compulsive liars/sociopaths without an ounce of morality to top office. With all the media manipulation,fear of reprisals, or just plain abductions and murder of whistle blowers, we will likely never know his exact involvement in the Tak Bai case.

Around the same time was the disappearance of poor southern rights lawyer, Somchai Neelapaijit. Do you remember the official Thaksin line on that? Something like "Oh, don't worry. I understand he had a fight with his wife, and will probably be back home in a day or two." only to clarify down the line that he was dead. Interesting parallel with the Tak Bai case in that what was reported by the mainstream press(almost certainly under duress) had little relation to actual facts.

Edited November 8, 2011 by jaidam

[jayboy]

Why retract? I was stating what I heard/saw on television at the start of the demonstration, and remembered this event clearly. As for the source it was most likely TAN news as I was watching on UBC and the story was in English language on a Thai station. It was just after Thaksin had acquired his Airbus319, was mentioned that he would be travelling to the south in this plane so I can't be mistaking this event for Krue Se which occured before he got his plane.

I also remember looking for Thaksin's personal involvement in the following days from other media. There was nothing at all. As if it had never happened. Much like the runway cracks. Forced apology from the papers and then not reported on ,so never happened. Or did they?

If you are not going to retract then provide proof, not some meandering and confused X files type anecdote which bears no relationship to any version of the Tak Bai incident.

[yoshiwara]

It will be interesting to see how Thaksin uses the flood later. Right now he stays quiet but is fully aware that he was always regarded, even by his enemies, as the the most effective can do PM - Abhisit was weak and couldnt control the bureaucracy, the military government couldnt get any first choices to work for them, and Yingluck hasnt shown control over the bureaucracy her brother did. After such a natural disaster I would be surprised if there were no people thinking if Thaksin came back we could sort this recovery out a lot better, and Im sure he will give public advice from afar

The floods have been unfortunate for the Thaksin agenda as well as for the Thai people. Yingluck was intended as a stepping stone and the cabinet appointments only supposed to have one item on their job manifest. The labelling of Yingluck as Thaksin's 'clone' has turned back and bitten him like one of those escaped snakes in the spreading flood waters. If he had any ideas they would be broadcast now and through his sister. He has none. So Yingluck forced to soldier on with a useless cabinet and blocked from using international assistance or the resources of a State of Emergency. No wonder Thaksin for the first time ever is staying well back in the shadows. Forum Thaksin apologists now reduced to efforts to cleaning his old suits with a dirty sponge. Nothing else to do for now.

[ballpoint]

We know that Thaksin's record in the South was deplorable.That's not being debated

But can you clarify, because it isn't fully clear from your post, that you are saying that Thaksin went to the South and was directly involved in the Tak Bai massacre.

Can you also provide a reference to the press conference/interview where he said he was going to the South to manage the situation.None of the many accounts of the background make reference to this, even those with strong hostility to Thaksin.

It's quite important to be clear about this because on the face of it what you say is untrue.You are now being given an opportunity to clarify or retract.

The Tak Bai incident took place in Narathiwat on the evening of October 25, 2004 Thaksin was in the province at the time. Indeed, the official report made in 2005 by the government appointed team has this to say about the man it eventually names as bearing responsibility for it (Major General Chalermchai Wiroonphet): "He was not at the scene to oversee the operation to the end. Instead, he left the scene at 7.30pm without an acceptable excuse, to meet the prime minister in Narathiwat." http://www.nationmultimedia.com/specials/takbai/p1.htm

Whilst there, he had this to say, about the protest:

“The protesters had several motives, but the main reason was separatism,” Thaksin said, speaking before the announcement of the 78 suffocation deaths. “I cannot allow the separatists to exist on our land.” He added: “We cannot allow these people to harass innocent people and authorities any longer … we have no choice but to use force to suppress them.” "

http://thechina.biz/china-economy/about-78-thai-prisoners-suffocate/

Read what you will into it, but I'd say it seems clear that he gave the go ahead to use force. It also shouldn't be forgotten that the suffocations came after the initial protest was subdued using live ammunition. Again, from the official enquiry: "Seven protesters were killed [five were shot in the head] and 15 police officers were injured during the crack down. About 1,370 protesters were detained." It was these 1,370 detained protestors who were packed into a number of army trucks, leading to the 78 deaths by suffocation.

Yes, it stinks to high heaven that the military enquiry held during the term of the Democrat government exonerated all. But is it possible that a large part of that exoneration was due to the findings of the Thakisn appointed team, back in 2005? Their conclusion: "The committee concluded the tragedy that led to 78 deaths was beyond expectations and was not intentional.

State officials carried out their work under limitations that led to flaws and mistakes, but there was no deliberate act to cause death and injury."

[Crushdepth]

The failure to pursue adequate charges against those involved in this atrocity lays at the feet of the Thaksin administration, get your facts straight. He should have hung them out to dry but chose to try and cover for the "deaths" instead. And his remarks were more than foolish, they were base and disgusting:

"They died because their bodies were weak from fasting". That's what Thaksin said in English on a televised doorstop interview. That's the point at which I began to despise the man, and maybe you'll understand why I also despise those who apologise for and support him.

Spare us the selective indignation, and at least try to be honest about this and get your facts straight.

I don't disagree with what you say about Thaksin's remarks.But the criminality rests squarely with the army.Its internal enquiry which issued its conclusions under the Abhisit administration was a whitewash, with the officers concerned found not guilty on all charges.No senior officers took responsibility in line with the long tradition of the Thai army generals never accounting for their crimes.If you get some obscure satisfaction in laying all the nation's problems at the feet of man, so be it but it is a puerile position to take in my view.If Thaksin shuffled off his coil today, do you seriously think an unreformed Thai army could never commit such an outrageous crime again?

It was Thaksins responsibility as PM of the day to see the military held accountable and processes put in train to deal with them. Abhisit was not running the show at the time. Thaksin was in power for another 2 years after the massacre and nobody was brought to justice in that time. These are facts, look them up.

One coup, two governments and four Prime Ministers later, you think it is appropriate to blame the Abhisit administration? Thats just stupid. I think you need to review your own revisionist version of history you rude bonehead.

[jayboy]

Read what you will into it, but I'd say it seems clear that he gave the go ahead to use force.

Why does it seem clear? It seems very far from clear to me.

Incidentally thanks for your interesting post with a lot of useful information, some of it new to me.

[jayboy]

It was Thaksins responsibility as PM of the day to see the military held accountable and processes put in train to deal with them. Abhisit was not running the show at the time. Thaksin was in power for another 2 years after the massacre and nobody was brought to justice in that time. These are facts, look them up.

One coup, two governments and four Prime Ministers later, you think it is appropriate to blame the Abhisit administration? Thats just stupid. I think you need to review your own revisionist version of history you rude bonehead.

The military inquiry reported during Abhisit's administration.There was no civil case and in any case Thaksin had no more jurisdiction over the military than the puppet Abhisit did.

[jayboy]

The floods have been unfortunate for the Thaksin agenda as well as for the Thai people. Yingluck was intended as a stepping stone and the cabinet appointments only supposed to have one item on their job manifest. The labelling of Yingluck as Thaksin's 'clone' has turned back and bitten him like one of those escaped snakes in the spreading flood waters. If he had any ideas they would be broadcast now and through his sister. He has none. So Yingluck forced to soldier on with a useless cabinet and blocked from using international assistance or the resources of a State of Emergency. No wonder Thaksin for the first time ever is staying well back in the shadows. Forum Thaksin apologists now reduced to efforts to cleaning his old suits with a dirty sponge. Nothing else to do for now.

If you are right no doubt we will see a massive rejection of the PTP at the next general election, and an overwhelming endorsement of the Dems under Abhisit.Dream on comrade.

I doubt whether the absence of an SOE makes the slightest bit of difference, though I appreciate for some it is a kind of fetish.Not even clear what it would achieve:even Prayuth doesn't want one.You are wrong about international assistance: it's being activated and very intensely so.Talk to any EU,US or Japanese Embassy official.Sorry if that doesn't fit in with your prejudices.

As to your forum apologists shtick, do bear in mind the law of diminishing returns.

[rubl]

The military inquiry reported during Abhisit's administration.There was no civil case and in any case Thaksin had no more jurisdiction over the military than the puppet Abhisit did.

Interesting article on Tak Bai (2005):

"2 Reporting to higher authorities

Higher authorities received reports as follows:

The deputy commander of the Southern Border Provinces Peace-building Command, Siwa Saengmanee received a report at 10am on October 26 that a total of 78 detainees had died.

The then southern Army commander testified that he received a report at 7.45am on October 26 that 78 people had died. He said he left the Tak Bai police station at 7pm on October 25 to meet the prime minister at the Royal Princess Hotel in Narathiwat and was granted an audience with Her Majesty the Queen. He left the Southern Palace at 4am on October 26. He did not receive any report between 7pm on October 25 and 7.45am the following day.

But General Wiset Konguthaikul, deputy chief royal guard of the Queen, testified that the southern Army commander and several other military and civilian officers were granted an audience at 00.30am and left at 1.30am on October 26. During the audience, it was already heard that the death toll of detainees had climbed to 70. Wiset said the southern Army chief could have used a mobile phone during the audience in case of an emergency."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/specials/takbai/p1.htm

April 2005:

http://www.siiaonline.org/?q=programmes/insights/thai-police-criticised-excessive-force-two-tragedies

November 2006:

"THAILAND: Somchai, Tak Bai, secrets & lies"

http://www.humanrights.asia/news/ahrc-news/AS-269-2006

October 2007:

http://www.hrw.org/news/2007/10/23/thailand-three-years-no-justice-massacre

August 2010:

http://arabic.amannews.org/view/view.php?id=744

October 2010:

http://justiceforpeace.org/?p=1081〈=en

(edit: add: Note the use of government: "I have come here to apologise to you on behalf of the previous government and on behalf of this government. What happened in the past was mostly the fault of the state," Surayud said on Thursday in response to a question from the audience about past refusals to apologise.

http://nationmultimedia.com/2006/11/04/headlines/headlines_30018061.php )

Edited November 8, 2011 by rubl

[ballpoint]

Read what you will into it, but I'd say it seems clear that he gave the go ahead to use force.

Why does it seem clear? It seems very far from clear to me.

The comments he made regarding the way the protest was initially dealt with (before he had news of the suffocations, but following the deaths of protestors by gunshot wounds), lead me to that conclusion.

“I cannot allow the separatists to exist on our land.”

"we have no choice but to use force to suppress them"

[sparebox2]

Read what you will into it, but I'd say it seems clear that he gave the go ahead to use force.

Why does it seem clear? It seems very far from clear to me.

The comments he made regarding the way the protest was initially dealt with (before he had news of the suffocations, but following the deaths of protestors by gunshot wounds), lead me to that conclusion.

"I cannot allow the separatists to exist on our land."

"we have no choice but to use force to suppress them"

Same same argument to shoot the Red people last year and the year before.

"I cannot allow the separatists to exist on our land."

"we have no choice but to use force to suppress them"

[lannarebirth]

It will be interesting to see how Thaksin uses the flood later. Right now he stays quiet but is fully aware that he was always regarded, even by his enemies, as the the most effective can do PM - Abhisit was weak and couldnt control the bureaucracy, the military government couldnt get any first choices to work for them, and Yingluck hasnt shown control over the bureaucracy her brother did. After such a natural disaster I would be surprised if there were no people thinking if Thaksin came back we could sort this recovery out a lot better, and Im sure he will give public advice from afar

If the fuguitive messiah is so great and holy, only capable of spewing forth words of wisdom in the correction of all that is wrong in Thailand, how come he has been so quiet of the matter of the floods and the lead-up to the disaster. As he knows all, surely the warning to release water from the already filled dams should have been made sometime back - - the cry of Thaksin thinks etc etc seems to have fallen short, or is it only applied in matters that are in his self interest.

The release data on the dams shows the water not being released was before the tenure of this government in case you havent noticed. When they assumed office release was acclerated over normal. It was when the election was called, during the campaign and while government formation was taking place that the release was reduced to well below mormal levels. That is not the fault of either the outgoing or incoming government in my opinion but a reflection of how the Thai bureaucracy works

My point on Thaksin is that he is the only PM in recent memory who could get the buraucracy to do most of what was wanted when in power. Yingluck hasnt been able to although it is early days, Abhisit couldnt, the army installed government couldnt. Put that with people wanting efficient recovery and it isnt a big leap to see some or many will think about it. Considering where he is now and how he is fugitive number one to the elite of course he cant do a thing now, but that still doesnt undermine a record of being able to get things done that no other PM could, for good and bad too.

I'll bet you thought that was a constructive post.

[ballpoint]

The comments he made regarding the way the protest was initially dealt with (before he had news of the suffocations, but following the deaths of protestors by gunshot wounds), lead me to that conclusion.

"I cannot allow the separatists to exist on our land."

"we have no choice but to use force to suppress them"

Same same argument to shoot the Red people last year and the year before.

"I cannot allow the separatists to exist on our land."

"we have no choice but to use force to suppress them"

So that makes it alright then? It takes a huge leap of reasoning (or maybe just a limited intellect) to say it was okay to do something in 2005, because the same "excuse" was going to be used five years later. (And, if you have proof that anyone was shot dead in the 2009 protests - other than the two murdered by the reds, please present it to the forum).

[Buchholz]

It's feeding time, ballpoint.

.

[philw]

It will be interesting to see how Thaksin uses the flood later. Right now he stays quiet but is fully aware that he was always regarded, even by his enemies, as the the most effective can do PM - Abhisit was weak and couldnt control the bureaucracy, the military government couldnt get any first choices to work for them, and Yingluck hasnt shown control over the bureaucracy her brother did. After such a natural disaster I would be surprised if there were no people thinking if Thaksin came back we could sort this recovery out a lot better, and Im sure he will give public advice from afar

If the fuguitive messiah is so great and holy, only capable of spewing forth words of wisdom in the correction of all that is wrong in Thailand, how come he has been so quiet of the matter of the floods and the lead-up to the disaster. As he knows all, surely the warning to release water from the already filled dams should have been made sometime back - - the cry of Thaksin thinks etc etc seems to have fallen short, or is it only applied in matters that are in his self interest.

The release data on the dams shows the water not being released was before the tenure of this government in case you havent noticed. When they assumed office release was acclerated over normal. It was when the election was called, during the campaign and while government formation was taking place that the release was reduced to well below mormal levels. That is not the fault of either the outgoing or incoming government in my opinion but a reflection of how the Thai bureaucracy works

My point on Thaksin is that he is the only PM in recent memory who could get the buraucracy to do most of what was wanted when in power. Yingluck hasnt been able to although it is early days, Abhisit couldnt, the army installed government couldnt. Put that with people wanting efficient recovery and it isnt a big leap to see some or many will think about it. Considering where he is now and how he is fugitive number one to the elite of course he cant do a thing now, but that still doesnt undermine a record of being able to get things done that no other PM could, for good and bad too.

I'll bet you thought that was a constructive post.

It's a lot more constructive and a lot less uglier than :-

lannarebirth, on 2011-11-06 21:29:08, said:

"I think she'll be able to probably get about a Billion baht for every dead body she can can come up with. At only 506 dead she's still a bit short of her goal of 900 Billion, but I'm not counting her out just yet."

Wow, with a capital F.

What kind of human can say this ??

Edited November 8, 2011 by philw

[jayboy]

The comments he made regarding the way the protest was initially dealt with (before he had news of the suffocations, but following the deaths of protestors by gunshot wounds), lead me to that conclusion.

“I cannot allow the separatists to exist on our land.”

"we have no choice but to use force to suppress them"

Sorry it simply doesn't follow.

The comments of Thaksin you quote could equally have been made by many within the Thai establishment from all political parties for whom the South has been a blind spot.

Even now separatism would be met by suppression.

[ballpoint]

The comments he made regarding the way the protest was initially dealt with (before he had news of the suffocations, but following the deaths of protestors by gunshot wounds), lead me to that conclusion.

"I cannot allow the separatists to exist on our land."

"we have no choice but to use force to suppress them"

Sorry it simply doesn't follow.

The comments of Thaksin you quote could equally have been made by many within the Thai establishment from all political parties for whom the South has been a blind spot.

Even now separatism would be met by suppression.

Your second and third sentences are correct, but my original comment was made regarding Thaksin.

[BinDhumm]

It will be interesting to see how Thaksin uses the flood later. Right now he stays quiet but is fully aware that he was always regarded, even by his enemies, as the the most effective can do PM - Abhisit was weak and couldnt control the bureaucracy, the military government couldnt get any first choices to work for them, and Yingluck hasnt shown control over the bureaucracy her brother did. After such a natural disaster I would be surprised if there were no people thinking if Thaksin came back we could sort this recovery out a lot better, and Im sure he will give public advice from afar

This discussion about a man who had more than 2000 people killed without court sentence bores me. For me he stays what he is: A murderer who had people killed without investigation and sentence. This is NOT a Demokrat. THIS IS NOT a person to run a country. He inlamwd the civil war in the south in 2004. By what I have learned and what I belive in. He simply is a criminal by international standards.

[yoshiwara]

It will be interesting to see how Thaksin uses the flood later. Right now he stays quiet but is fully aware that he was always regarded, even by his enemies, as the the most effective can do PM - Abhisit was weak and couldnt control the bureaucracy, the military government couldnt get any first choices to work for them, and Yingluck hasnt shown control over the bureaucracy her brother did. After such a natural disaster I would be surprised if there were no people thinking if Thaksin came back we could sort this recovery out a lot better, and Im sure he will give public advice from afar

If the fuguitive messiah is so great and holy, only capable of spewing forth words of wisdom in the correction of all that is wrong in Thailand, how come he has been so quiet of the matter of the floods and the lead-up to the disaster. As he knows all, surely the warning to release water from the already filled dams should have been made sometime back - - the cry of Thaksin thinks etc etc seems to have fallen short, or is it only applied in matters that are in his self interest.

The problem with a narrative of Thaksin the saviour is that it would have to replace Yingluck the clone. The defence of Thaksin starts with Yingluck. Thaksin is not quietly sitting on the sidelines. He certainly isn't proudly standing in front of his sister. More like shuffling backwards leaving her to take the heat. That is the sort of person he is.